Latest updates just feel... blah

[mr peeps]

Ok. I don't know if I'm the only one feeling this way, but does anyone else feel the updates have just been... underwhelming?

In beta/early access, every time a new update released, I could replay the game and have the same, if not more fun than I did when I first got the game. Nowadays, it just doesn't do that for me anymore. I understand games get old, but I love/loved this game. It's my #1 most played game and I love whats being done to it. But... it just doesn't feel right. Ranching 1 was really good, and I liked it a lot, but ranching 2 is just so bland. All it did was add 2 buildings (with variants) and add critter types. I'm my opinion, that should have been something ALONGSIDE something else. 

Now (in my opinion) how could this be fixed, give it that beta "zing".

-world building is the #1 most fun thing in the game. But when was the last time anything has changed in the world? you have your cold biome, your warm, temperate, hot, and scorching biome. What else?? Nothings changed in ages, even though they have blocks that they just don't use!

-lack of late game. In late game, I think you should be able to do lots more, such as automate mining, cooking, etc. maybe even leave the asteroid. but that's secondary

-more lore bits, and better lore. Lore is something I love in Klei games. It adds a level of mystery to the game, pressuring you to find them. whether it be secret links, codes, etc. But this game.... lacks. I know its early access, but I think it would really add a new layer to the game. 

Thoughts? questions? concerns?

 

[Mariilyn]

Sandbox mode was the something added alongside ranching content.

Also we got new sensors, radiant pipes and some heat transfer changes.

Plus I'm sure it was a lot of work to balance and implement all the new critter mechanics (A guess, because I would not know).

I think we had enough content and what is truly missing is efficient tools for egg management. It takes too much effort and attention to sort and manage eggs ! >_< In this regard, it feels as though the update is incomplete.

[mr peeps]

31 minutes ago, Mariilyn said:

Sandbox mode was the something added alongside ranching content.

Also we got new sensors, radiant pipes and some heat transfer changes.

Plus I'm sure it was a lot of work to balance and implement all the new critter mechanics (A guess, because I would not know).

I think we had enough content and what is truly missing is efficient tools for egg management. It takes too much effort and attention to sort and manage eggs ! >_< In this regard, it feels as though the update is incomplete.

sandbox mode is cool and needed in all, but it's not THAT big. The sensors are also cool and needed, but alone it really doesn't add much to the game. The critter stuff is cool, and I like it, but it's just underwhelming to me. I do like the performance fixes, and the game runs fantastically now. But alas, it still just doesn't feel like it was when it had just released

[crypticorb]

2 hours ago, mr peeps said:

sandbox mode is cool and needed in all, but it's not THAT big. The sensors are also cool and needed, but alone it really doesn't add much to the game. The critter stuff is cool, and I like it, but it's just underwhelming to me. I do like the performance fixes, and the game runs fantastically now. But alas, it still just doesn't feel like it was when it had just released

Give it time. I have faith that Klei will pull a bunch of new awesome stuff into the game with the next few release cycles. Remember the huge leaps forward when the Oil upgrade and Automation upgrades hit? I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was in the pipeline.

Not every single release will be a showstopper, some have more bug fixes and optimizations rather than content.

[TheExceed]

4 hours ago, mr peeps said:

sandbox mode is cool and needed in all, but it's not THAT big. The sensors are also cool and needed, but alone it really doesn't add much to the game. The critter stuff is cool, and I like it, but it's just underwhelming to me. I do like the performance fixes, and the game runs fantastically now. But alas, it still just doesn't feel like it was when it had just released

Think of it this way. They though that these two updates were too big to be updated together without rushing the update. So, in order to get this content out, it needed to be done as two updates. Don't think of the last two updates as separate updates but a single update.
They both seem mediocre separately but together they are a pretty big update. I think the Jobs/Ranching update were better updates imo.

[mr peeps]

9 hours ago, crypticorb said:

Give it time. I have faith that Klei will pull a bunch of new awesome stuff into the game with the next few release cycles. Remember the huge leaps forward when the Oil upgrade and Automation upgrades hit? I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was in the pipeline.

Not every single release will be a showstopper, some have more bug fixes and optimizations rather than content.

I dunno. Its just been quite awhile since a good, game-changing update. And, back in alpha, the release cycles were only around 3 weeks, and each update was fantastic! Im sure something better will come soon. Lets hope!

8 hours ago, TheExceed said:

Think of it this way. They though that these two updates were too big to be updated together without rushing the update. So, in order to get this content out, it needed to be done as two updates. Don't think of the last two updates as separate updates but a single update.
They both seem mediocre separately but together they are a pretty big update. I think the Jobs/Ranching update were better updates imo.

yeah, but that's still 12 weeks. I would expect 2 updates worth of content, (a lot in other words), and ranching was fantastic, but the second update just didn't feel... fulfilling. And, ok you're right; the jobs upgrade is one of my favorites. I think they could have made the same amount of content if maybe they only made it take 3-4 weeks for it, not 6

[TheExceed]

4 hours ago, mr peeps said:

yeah, but that's still 12 weeks. I would expect 2 updates worth of content, (a lot in other words), and ranching was fantastic, but the second update just didn't feel... fulfilling. And, ok you're right; the jobs upgrade is one of my favorites. I think they could have made the same amount of content if maybe they only made it take 3-4 weeks for it, not 6

I do agree that 6 weeks for the MK2 wasn't worth it but together as a whole, I think Ranching was completely worth it. Especially if they expand on it even further in future updates. More variants, more critters, etc. Just think of them as 1 update that took extra time to do and hopefully you won't too dissatisfied.

[mr peeps]

3 hours ago, TheExceed said:

I do agree that 6 weeks for the MK2 wasn't worth it but together as a whole, I think Ranching was completely worth it. Especially if they expand on it even further in future updates. More variants, more critters, etc. Just think of them as 1 update that took extra time to do and hopefully you won't too dissatisfied.

Yes yes, I completely agree. The ranching was badly needed. But mostly, the latest update is just an example. Look at the tubular upgrade. Wow. tubes. coolio. Necessary things, but not standalone, you know?

[TheExceed]

17 minutes ago, mr peeps said:

Yes yes, I completely agree. The ranching was badly needed. But mostly, the latest update is just an example. Look at the tubular upgrade. Wow. tubes. coolio. Necessary things, but not standalone, you know?

In terms of content, yes, it was pretty lackluster. But if I recall that was also a pretty big performance update for large storage systems.

[blash365]

Given that there were quite a few technical difficulties related with this updates (crashes, invisible dupes, layers mixed up). And the art department was most likely not out of work for the last weeks. I dont think that adding more content to this update would have been in everybodies best interest.

Having a stable update is more important as more content will arrive sooner or later. Just wait anther 6 weeks and you will get your new content. Its not exactly unlikely that some updates might not be up your alley. That doesnt mean the end of the world.

 

P.S.: There also was a very impactful change to the temperature system including a fix for the drip cooling/heating bug.

[mr peeps]

1 hour ago, blash365 said:

Given that there were quite a few technical difficulties related with this updates (crashes, invisible dupes, layers mixed up). And the art department was most likely not out of work for the last weeks. I dont think that adding more content to this update would have been in everybodies best interest.

Having a stable update is more important as more content will arrive sooner or later. Just wait anther 6 weeks and you will get your new content. Its not exactly unlikely that some updates might not be up your alley. That doesnt mean the end of the world.

 

P.S.: There also was a very impactful change to the temperature system including a fix for the drip cooling/heating bug.

Yes, I am aware of the recent bug fixes and optimizations (have you SEEN those frames!!!) but I still think 6 weeks was a bit long. 

[blash365]

6 weeks is the normal update cycle.

I can see that you participated in

 

So this is no news to you. Why are you still complaining about this cycle?

It obviously works well for klei, they are productive. It also works well for the community, we are getting updates on a reliable and frequent basis of sufficient content with varying scope (new biome here, new critters there).

Yes, we all got that you didnt enjoy the last update. But that's how life is. You will not always have your favorite dish on your plate. Make good suggestions about new content and participate constructively in the early access and klei will surely find a way to make you happy as well.

Simply stating that everything is slow and you dont enjoy the update is not helpful to anybody.

[mr peeps]

2 minutes ago, blash365 said:

6 weeks is the normal update cycle.

I can see that you participated in

 

So this is no news to you. Why are you still complaining about this cycle?

It obviously works well for klei, they are productive. It also works well for the community, we are getting updates on reliable and frequent basis.

Yes, we all got that you didnt enjoy the last update. But that's how life is. You will not always have your favorite dish on your plate. Make good suggestions about new content and participate constructively in the early access and klei will surely find a way to make you happy as well.

Simply stating that everything is slow and you dont enjoy the update is not helpful to anybody.

Jesus. I just wanted to know if I was the only one feeling this way, and what I would have liked to see. Also, did I post there? I dont see anything from me.

[TheExceed]

13 minutes ago, mr peeps said:

Yes, I am aware of the recent bug fixes and optimizations (have you SEEN those frames!!!) but I still think 6 weeks was a bit long. 

Lol optimizations can take way longer... depending on how much they need to change in order to see that optimization...
When thinking about the content added, you need to think about the mechanics of the content and how difficult it would be to get it to work.

I think you are looking to much at negative things and not looking into it too much. Just keep everything I said in mind.

[mr peeps]

Just now, TheExceed said:

Lol optimizations can take way longer... depending on how much they need to change in order to see that optimization...
When thinking about the content added, you need to think about the mechanics of the content and how difficult it would be to get it to work.

I think you are looking to much at negative things and not looking into it too much. Just keep everything I said in mind.

Well

 

thinking about it, I guess your right. I didn't really take into account ALL they did, just the more visible things, but I mean... I still do think there needs to be some more content to switch things up a bit, you know?

[TheExceed]

8 minutes ago, mr peeps said:

Well

 

thinking about it, I guess your right. I didn't really take into account ALL they did, just the more visible things, but I mean... I still do think there needs to be some more content to switch things up a bit, you know?

Yeah it would be cool, but more content means more possibility for bugs. And it seems we have kids who think EA games shouldnt have any bugs XDD I dont mind the pace they are going, some updates are better than others and It will likely always be that way. Can have time to make a decent base before I start over for new content.

[mr peeps]

Just now, TheExceed said:

Yeah it would be cool, but more content means more possibility for bugs. And it seems we have kids who think EA games shouldnt have any bugs XDD I dont mind the pace they are going, some updates are better than others and It will likely always be that way. Can have time to make a decent base before I start over for new content.

I dunno. I think another part of it is just the fact that back in alpha, the updates would always change the game completely (as alpha games do) and I just expected that for early access. Who knows.

[blash365]

Its easy to change a game when an update adds (percepted) 20% of content to it (e.g. a new biome or a new subsystem like diseases). Especially when the overall content of the game is not yet very broad.

After ~1 year in early access the scope of the game as already been increased greatly, it is not as likely that there will be a gamechanging update that makes you rethink how the rest of the game has to be played.

And still i think that especially the current update (and the MK1) has done exactly that. Ranching is now actually a fully fleshed out part of the game, where you can do it for the gains (slime, coal, plastic, oil) or simply because the critters look cute and you are having fun breeding different morphs of them.

This part of content might not be of the automation-sciency-futuristic-kind that some people seek when playing ONI, but it still added alot of depth to an aspect of the game that before was very shallow or in some cases even useless.

I really think you underestimate the impact of the ranching updates on how the game is played now.

 

And as i tried to say above, there is alot of artwork related to this update. Every critter had to be redone in a dozend variations (albeit some might be simple recolorings). Even if the programming department would have had capacity to programm some other aspects of the game, it would not have been a very graphical one.

 

[mr peeps]

16 hours ago, blash365 said:

Its easy to change a game when an update adds (percepted) 20% of content to it (e.g. a new biome or a new subsystem like diseases). Especially when the overall content of the game is not yet very broad.

After ~1 year in early access the scope of the game as already been increased greatly, it is not as likely that there will be a gamechanging update that makes you rethink how the rest of the game has to be played.

And still i think that especially the current update (and the MK1) has done exactly that. Ranching is now actually a fully fleshed out part of the game, where you can do it for the gains (slime, coal, plastic, oil) or simply because the critters look cute and you are having fun breeding different morphs of them.

This part of content might not be of the automation-sciency-futuristic-kind that some people seek when playing ONI, but it still added alot of depth to an aspect of the game that before was very shallow or in some cases even useless.

I really think you underestimate the impact of the ranching updates on how the game is played now.

 

And as i tried to say above, there is alot of artwork related to this update. Every critter had to be redone in a dozend variations (albeit some might be simple recolorings). Even if the programming department would have had capacity to programm some other aspects of the game, it would not have been a very graphical one.

 

I completely agree that the ranching aspect was pretty big. I also agree that a game-changing update is less likely than it was before. Maybe what I'm looking for is more of an update to existing systems (world, disease, lore, physics) rather than an entirely new system. 

 

I though about it some more, and I think what my issue was is that a lot of the latest updates were adding big, but a bit boring things. like the tubular upgrade, and slightly and ranching II

[TheExceed]

26 minutes ago, mr peeps said:

I completely agree that the ranching aspect was pretty big. I also agree that a game-changing update is less likely than it was before. Maybe what I'm looking for is more of an update to existing systems (world, disease, lore, physics) rather than an entirely new system. 

 

I though about it some more, and I think what my issue was is that a lot of the latest updates were adding big, but a bit boring things. like the tubular upgrade, and slightly and ranching II

Yeah but ranching is definitely something the game needed. Let's hope they start adding new biomes now. And optimize for bigger asteroids

[blash365]

Well if you look at the last updates closely, you will find that klei is delivering almost exactly, what the community has been suggesting here:

the community asked for  ...

* spezialization of dupes regarding their work, they asked for hats, they asked for a better priority system (debateable) -> we got the occupational update and several priority reworks

* ore transporting, easier delivery of material -> we got conveyor belts

* breeding, farming, more crittes -> we got 2 (!) updates for ranching

* changes to the temperature management -> they (finally) fixed the dripping bug and if i am not heavily mistaken one of the next updates will follow up on this

* clean energy -> steam turbine (not yet fully usable, but it counts)

* logic element for memory -> added even though it was buildable using the existing elements

* logic elements for temperature, mass and element type -> added as well, even though they might conceptual replace the gas/liquid filter in some cases

 

Occasionally they put in a few ideas of their own (that sounds harsh :/) like the tubular things, which i did not have on my radar by reading this board (but i just started reading back then, so maybe even that was suggested). But apart from that you have to hand it to klei that they are listening pretty closely (or are having the same thought process) as most of the vocal community on this forum (and most likely other channels as well).

So if you have good ideas that you want to see in the game, be vocal about them and hope for a consensus with the rest of the EA community. Its pretty clear that klei will be interested in your input.

 

Its actually quite hard for me to recall a broad topic that is still being discussed on these forums (apart from minor additions to existing ones (e.g. more rooms)). What comes to mind is:

* medicine

* temperature management for hot stuff

* story-/lategame-related stuff

* general content updates such as new biomes

So if i were to take a bet, those would be my next expectations for the upcoming updates. And i wasnt exactly wrong with my predictions in the past.;)

[TheExceed]

6 hours ago, blash365 said:

Well if you look at the last updates closely, you will find that klei is delivering almost exactly, what the community has been suggesting here:

the community asked for  ...

* spezialization of dupes regarding their work, they asked for hats, they asked for a better priority system (debateable) -> we got the occupational update and several priority reworks

* ore transporting, easier delivery of material -> we got conveyor belts

* breeding, farming, more crittes -> we got 2 (!) updates for ranching

* changes to the temperature management -> they (finally) fixed the dripping bug and if i am not heavily mistaken one of the next updates will follow up on this

* clean energy -> steam turbine (not yet fully usable, but it counts)

* logic element for memory -> added even though it was buildable using the existing elements

* logic elements for temperature, mass and element type -> added as well, even though they might conceptual replace the gas/liquid filter in some cases

 

Occasionally they put in a few ideas of their own (that sounds harsh :/) like the tubular things, which i did not have on my radar by reading this board (but i just started reading back then, so maybe even that was suggested). But apart from that you have to hand it to klei that they are listening pretty closely (or are having the same thought process) as most of the vocal community on this forum (and most likely other channels as well).

So if you have good ideas that you want to see in the game, be vocal about them and hope for a consensus with the rest of the EA community. Its pretty clear that klei will be interested in your input.

 

Its actually quite hard for me to recall a broad topic that is still being discussed on these forums (apart from minor additions to existing ones (e.g. more rooms)). What comes to mind is:

* medicine

* temperature management for hot stuff

* story-/lategame-related stuff

* general content updates such as new biomes

So if i were to take a bet, those would be my next expectations for the upcoming updates. And i wasnt exactly wrong with my predictions in the past.;)

If the tubes didn't cost so much plastic, I would use them more. But it's easier just creating a water lock or vacuum door system.

[crypticorb]

8 hours ago, blash365 said:

Its actually quite hard for me to recall a broad topic that is still being discussed on these forums (apart from minor additions to existing ones (e.g. more rooms)). What comes to mind is:

* medicine

* temperature management for hot stuff

* story-/lategame-related stuff

* general content updates such as new biomes

So if i were to take a bet, those would be my next expectations for the upcoming updates. And i wasnt exactly wrong with my predictions in the past.;)

One thing you've missed that would cover a large range of requested topics is world generation options. Many, many people have asked for (and in some cases have hacked and made unofficial mods for) custom generation of the biomes, world size, geyser spawns, and duplicant stats.

I've seen a LOT of topics that this would solve, including challenge maps, custom storylines, geyser shuffling, and tons of QOL enhancements.

[blash365]

That's true. It didnt even occur to me that those aspects are still open as well. I am not looking forward too much for those, since they will only have a minor effect on my playstyle (from my current perspective). So maybe with one of the next updates our roles will be switched.;)

 

[scientas]

10 hours ago, blash365 said:

 

Its actually quite hard for me to recall a broad topic that is still being discussed on these forums (apart from minor additions to existing ones (e.g. more rooms)). What comes to mind is:

 

* medicine

* temperature management for hot stuff

* story-/lategame-related stuff

* general content updates such as new biomes

So if i were to take a bet, those would be my next expectations for the upcoming updates. And i wasnt exactly wrong with my predictions in the past.;)

I'd add

• egg/critter management - looks like we'll need a ranching mk3 or cooking upgrade
• recipe expansion/tweak (general content)
• use for/addition of material x (chlorine use, acid, salt, etc)
• fixing storage (general content)
• expanded research/continued scientist role
• more entryways - airlocks, 1 tile vertical hatches
• better dupe exploration (elevators, jetpacks, portable oxygen tanks, porto-potties)
• more artwork or decor or backgrounds (general content)
• more rooms (general content)
• liquid/gas storage tanks as buildings
• blueprints