Make Steam Turbine less complicated

[MythN7]

i am in debug mode trying to get a turbine to work in super speed and instant building with spawning in gas, I have placed it right above my 500C steam geyser.

The main issue I have is trying to maintain 300+C while keeping the pressure above and below the dam thing different but still so that the pressure at the fan blades is steam at min 3000g pressure.

If one cant even get it to activate in cheat mode not even trying to use it for power and just TRYING to get it to meet the active needs for more than a fraction of a second then this thing is majorly flawed in game design.

The 5 block  base the dups can walk on should block gas as if it was a solid block, absorbing the gas into the blades, then when its at the 3000g pressure and hot enough the fans push the gas in the bades out the smoke stacks on it.

Also, I would think ANY steam would work, and the pressure and temp of the steam would determine how much energy its generating.

Or it wouldn't suck up lose steam but a machine this advanced would instead have a water input and internal boiler system so it needs a bit of a boost start in power to boil the water but once its going it can power the boiler on its own with more watts than its using as long as you are keeping the water flow constant.

[crypticorb]

Two assumptions you made that aren't going to work in this particular build:

First: hot steam geysers do not put out enough steam to keep a steam turbine running for very long, if at all. You have to wait many MANY cycles for the pressure to build up off this type of geyser to get enough to run one cycle of power.

Second: all of the 500^oC geysers (steam, pO2, hydrogen) do not have enough thermal concentration with their output material to get a steam generator hot enough.

While you might think one geyser would, since it is putting out 500^oC material, if you were somehow able to transfer 100% of that thermal energy into the steam of the turbine room, it is simply not enough. Compare it to a lava or molten iron vent, they output liquid at 1000^o+. Liquid has many times the thermal capacity as gas, which is why large pools of water make such great heat sinks.

I agree that the hot steam geysers, and other 500^oC geysers, are fairly useless without some means of extracting or harnessing that thermal energy. Hopefully we'll see some means of harnessing that energy soon!

If you want some excellent advice on truly functional steam generator experiments, watch this video by Brothgar, skip to 28:00 if you want to see an iron volcano working with a steam generator.

 

[MythN7]

20 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

Two assumptions you made that aren't going to work in this particular build:

First: hot steam geysers do not put out enough steam to keep a steam turbine running for very long, if at all. You have to wait many MANY cycles for the pressure to build up off this type of geyser to get enough to run one cycle of power.

Second: all of the 500^oC geysers (steam, pO2, hydrogen) do not have enough thermal concentration with their output material to get a steam generator hot enough.

While you might think one geyser would, since it is putting out 500^oC material, if you were somehow able to transfer 100% of that thermal energy into the steam of the turbine room, it is simply not enough. Compare it to a lava or molten iron vent, they output liquid at 1000^o+. Liquid has many times the thermal capacity as gas, which is why large pools of water make such great heat sinks.

I agree that the hot steam geysers, and other 500^oC geysers, are fairly useless without some means of extracting or harnessing that thermal energy. Hopefully we'll see some means of harnessing that energy soon!

If you want some excellent advice on truly functional steam generator experiments, watch this video by Brothgar, skip to 28:00 if you want to see an iron volcano working with a steam generator.

 

The whole point though is I am using debug mode and if someone cannot even figure out how to make it work spawning in anything they want in super speed mode, then the game is either way to strict or the instructions are wrong or lacking.

This is supposed to be a game, not a final exam for university thermodynamics.

its not just that this geyser wont work efficiently, my intent was just to harness the power when the geyser does go off to power things like aqua tuners or something to just help out cooling random stuff.

 

I did get this thing going using doors on buffer switches to push the air on a open close circle loop.

BUT! only when I filled the room with 4000kgs of steam, not grams.

 

and that guys vids are fun to watch, but have almost NO! practical use to the game for playing it outside of debug mode. he does so much stuff that is just either over the top, or just not possible in a real play scenario.

So I dont bother with his videos anymore.

[goboking]

53 minutes ago, MythN7 said:

and that guys vids are fun to watch, but have almost NO! practical use to the game for playing it outside of debug mode. he does so much stuff that is just either over the top, or just not possible in a real play scenario.

So I dont bother with his videos anymore.

I'll agree with your premise that the steam turbine needs another pass, but I vehemently disagree with your opinion on Brothgar.  Yes, he mucks around in debug mode a lot and yes, many of his designs are overkill.  But he knows his stuff and is more than capable of putting it into practical application.

He's currently running a base wherein he accepts three dupes every three days, and the only one of the 70+ dupes he's accepted that's died did so because of bad pathing/AI.  Considering he's using no other exploits than using debug to spawn an additional two dupes every time the printer is ready and the mechanized doors using less power than they should I'd say that's pretty darn impressive.

[MythN7]

2 minutes ago, goboking said:

I'll agree with your premise that the steam turbine needs another pass, but I vehemently disagree with your opinion on Brothgar.  Yes, he mucks around in debug mode a lot and yes, many of his designs are overkill.  But he knows his stuff and is more than capable of putting it into practical application.

He's currently running a base wherein he accepts three dupes every three days, and the only one of the 70+ dupes he's accepted that's died did so because of bad pathing/AI.  Considering he's using no other exploits than using debug to spawn an additional two dupes every time the printer is ready and the mechanized doors using less power than they should I'd say that's pretty darn impressive.

i didn't say he doesn't know his stuff, quite the opposite, he puts so much advanced high level theory into it, anyone without a pdh only hears french.

Like i said this is a game not an exam for university thermodynamics.

there's not enough examples on line on how to make the most basic simple setup of these end game objects just for the purpose of saying hey, you wanna play without cheating, you wanna see how it was meant to work for the general player, ok here.

Ill say it again, as its the main reason for the suggestion. If one cannot even get something to kinda somewhat work in debug cheat mode, then content needs to be tweaked.

and i would say im pretty good at the game since I can get to cycle 300+ almost every time now.

and things only go to hell when i try to start playing with electros and turbines and quality food farms that need cold clean water.

and if easily getting up to cycle 300 is something not that impressive then ok, i guess it means i suck at the game.

[blash365]

I am currently playing a map where i have a crude oil leak (~330°C) and a cool steam vent (4400g/s @ 110°C) right next to each other.

Shouldnt it be possible to run a steam turbine with these two?

[MythN7]

4 minutes ago, blash365 said:

I am currently playing a map where i have a crude oil leak (~330°C) and a cool steam vent (4400g/s @ 110°C) right next to each other.

Shouldnt it be possible to run a steam turbine with these two?

not sure, the one i had was not a cool steam vent it was a normal one thats hotter.

i also had a leaky oil very close above that, and a magma not to far above that. so making heat was not an issue.

the issue was the pressure requirements.

so far in ANY video or example, people have to use mech doors to move gas around, which I think is a game gimick, cause they also quite often when used in this way completly destroy the gas it closes on creating a vacume.

and any proper way to move gas in a turbine setup has double the min temp that a gold ANYTHING can take for max heat.

if i can make a turbine with plastic parts that require 300C min temp. how can a full metal anything else burn up and break at 75C or 125 as gold.

[crypticorb]

27 minutes ago, blash365 said:

I am currently playing a map where i have a crude oil leak (~330°C) and a cool steam vent (4400g/s @ 110°C) right next to each other.

Shouldnt it be possible to run a steam turbine with these two?

The 330°C leaky oil vent might be possible to run a steam turbine on, because the minimum temperature a steam turbine needs is 300°C. Since liquids like oil have much higher thermal capacity than the steam, it should be possible, though with only 30°C differential it will be difficult to keep it going. Give it a try.

The cool steam vent is simply not hot enough.

 

26 minutes ago, MythN7 said:

so far in ANY video or example, people have to use mech doors to move gas around, which I think is a game gimick, cause they also quite often when used in this way completly destroy the gas it closes on creating a vacume.

and any proper way to move gas in a turbine setup has double the min temp that a gold ANYTHING can take for max heat.

if i can make a turbine with plastic parts that require 300C min temp. how can a full metal anything else burn up and break at 75C or 125 as gold.

The automated/mech door system for moving gas is currently the only method for moving gas in quantity at those high temperatures. I'm hoping in the future they will give us some means of moving high-temperature gasses and liquids, but no intuitive means exists currently. Remember that this game is still in pre-release, and the developers are adding tons of new stuff regularly, and everything is subject to change. After Ranching Mk2 comes out, I anticipate a ton of new stuff involving heat/cooling systems, power control, gas/liquid manipulation, and maybe some plot stuff.

[MythN7]

2 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

The 330°C leaky oil vent might be possible to run a steam turbine on, because the minimum temperature a steam turbine needs is 300°C. Since liquids like oil have much higher thermal capacity than the steam, it should be possible, though with only 30°C differential it will be difficult to keep it going. Give it a try.

The cool steam vent is simply not hot enough.

 

The automated/mech door system for moving gas is currently the only method for moving gas in quantity at those high temperatures. I'm hoping in the future they will give us some means of moving high-temperature gasses and liquids, but no intuitive means exists currently. Remember that this game is still in pre-release, and the developers are adding tons of new stuff regularly, and everything is subject to change. After Ranching Mk2 comes out, I anticipate a ton of new stuff involving heat/cooling systems, power control, gas/liquid manipulation, and maybe some plot stuff.

ya it seems like they are focusing on content chapter chunks to keep  the balance in check, so i dont get why they would implement many of these power or gas management systems that seem either broken or to wait for it to come up on the to do list.  but doing back to the trend they seem to at least have a working purpose for anything you can build without having to do really exploit or gimmicky setups.

I would say i think i might be done with the game until they put a few more content updates out.

seems like a waste of time to try and have fun past cycle 200-300 if debug mode is not my cup of tea.

[DyingCrow]

Its possible to make very compact and really simple steam turbine builds work off magma pockets with a very basic setup (no door pumps or automation) by using other lighter gases to make up for the pressure differentials, but it requires very high steam pressures to be reliable (something in the order of 100kg+ steam per tile). Im talking about a simple box with a turbine in it, and a couple hot plates on the bottom. But as they are, this will not run reliably, or forever.

Heck, you can even run a steam turbine off magma bottles and dupe sweat. It just sucks to do it for some meager 2kw. A bunch of wild hatches and coal generators will do the same for way less effort, and you still get food out of it.

[DubbleTwice]

 

I'd like to support MythN7.

The game is actually very difficult.  You need to be a "studied expert" to be successful.

Quote

Like i said this is a game not an exam for university thermodynamics.  - MythN7

 

Oxygen not included is currently in danger of straying closer to a "simulation" than a "game".

1. A simulation is typically accurate, boring and difficult  (Dwarf Fortress I'm looking at you!)
2. A game is fun 

We all love Oxygen not included.  We all love the complexity.  ... BUT ... I've never-once-ever been able to use or setup the "Mid / End-game" content in a game-play context.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oozinator]

8 hours ago, DubbleTwice said:

 

The game is actually very difficult.  You need to be a "studied expert" to be successful.

 

Oxygen not included is currently in danger of straying closer to a "simulation" than a "game".

1. A simulation is typically accurate, boring and difficult  (Dwarf Fortress I'm looking at you!)
2. A game is fun 

We all love Oxygen not included.  We all love the complexity.  ... BUT ... I've never-once-ever been able to use or setup the "Mid / End-game" content in a game-play context.  

 

Your point "1" and the part about  DF, is completely wrong for me.
" I've never-once-ever " when you have some more hours on your ONI clock, it will change automatic..