Shadow Pieces and Moon Stone

[Szczuku]

So I feel like most of the community took existance of shadow pieces and moon stone too calm. I mean they have to be connected to the lore. Did Ancients at some point live on the surface. Why were they trying to use the "moon" power? Why shadow pieces drop the shadow autrium (heart/soul of ancien king)? Suddently rook, bishop and knight might have more meaning behind them then just ancients playing chessa lot.

[Sinister_Fang]

 I think we've known there's something up with the moon for a while. It has a heavy influence on the world itself.  Maxwell always puts it in quotes when he mentions it, and that's kinda a dead giveaway on it's own. The problem is that there's just not enough in the game currently to put together a solid theory without a lot of speculation.

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

Why shadow pieces drop the shadow autrium (heart/soul of ancien king)?

I don't think there's much evidence to support that this actually belonged to the ancient king.

[Zeklo]

53 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I don't think there's much evidence to support that this actually belonged to the ancient king.

Oh let me tell ya. 

The better phrasing is that there is some potential evidence for the Fuelweaver being the ancient king, so the Atrium by extension would technically, as they said, be the king's heart.

It's a huge complicated thing I've gone over many times, but I'll try and give a short rundown.

The shadow creatures are not Them, they are the ancients. We know this based on the murals and obelisk in the Metheus puzzle. The Fuelweaver seeks to turn off the gateway and as a result kill himself. This grants him no benefit, apart from stopping us from doing something we'll regret. The Fuelweaver mentions his city in ruins, simple. He also has the ability to summon shadow creatures to his aid, his old subjects. The helmet we get is pretty much the "crown". We bested the King, now we're the new King. The ancients turned shadows now follow us. The Fuelweaver was also confirmed male on a Klei stream. In the same stream Metheus was confirmed female. This is important because I believe Metheus to be the ancient queen, and Charlie's shadow half. Once again, the shadow creatures are shown to obey Charlie—or rather her shadow side—immediately and willingly granting power over the throne. Makes sense if they were the queen. Further more, Prometheus in greek mythology is known for stealing fire—and both Shadow Charlie & the Grue are shown with those signature wavy shadow hands. The same hands that steal flame away when you're insane. Charlie is currently in the process of collecting white energy from the gateway. The same white energy the ancient "King" & "Queen were collecting, before everything went wrong. Charlie clearly knows what she's doing, but not from her own knowledge.

The two theories use each other as a crutch which takes a bit away from they're accuracy, but the points are interesting. This was a bit rushed and short, so feel free to poke spots.

[Sinister_Fang]

48 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Oh let me tell ya. 

The better phrasing is that there is some potential evidence for the Fuelweaver being the ancient king, so the Atrium by extension would technically, as they said, be the king's heart.

It's a huge complicated thing I've gone over many times, but I'll try and give a short rundown.

The shadow creatures are not Them, they are the ancients. We know this based on the murals and obelisk in the Metheus puzzle. The Fuelweaver seeks to turn off the gateway and as a result kill himself. This grants him no benefit, apart from stopping us from doing something we'll regret. The Fuelweaver mentions his city in ruins, simple. He also has the ability to summon shadow creatures to his aid, his old subjects. The helmet we get is pretty much the "crown". We bested the King, now we're the new King. The ancients turned shadows now follow us. The Fuelweaver was also confirmed male on a Klei stream. In the same stream Metheus was confirmed female. This is important because I believe Metheus to be the ancient queen, and Charlie's shadow half. Once again, the shadow creatures are shown to obey Charlie—or rather her shadow side—immediately and willingly granting power over the throne. Makes sense if they were the queen. Further more, Prometheus in greek mythology is known for stealing fire—and both Shadow Charlie & the Grue are shown with those signature wavy shadow hands. The same hands that steal flame away when you're insane. Charlie is currently in the process of collecting white energy from the gateway. The same white energy the ancient "King" & "Queen were collecting, before everything went wrong. Charlie clearly knows what she's doing, but not from her own knowledge.

The two theories use each other as a crutch which takes a bit away from they're accuracy, but the points are interesting. This was a bit rushed and short, so feel free to poke spots.

It's a really good theory, but I remembered something from one of the murals from the Metheus puzzle:

Spoiler

Check out the top right. You can see the ancient king clearly resurrecting the Fuelweaver. That, and the body shape of the ancients here is very different from the Fuelweaver. The ancients aren't even bipedal like the Fuelweaver is. The Fuelweaver was likely from an even older civilization, or possibly from another world as the portal is active in this panel. So he might have been an ancient king, but not the ancient king we're usually talking of. (We really need an official name for this civilization instead of just "ancients")

However, the connection between Charlie and Metheus seems very solid. In many ways you can see that Charlie's actions aren't entirely her own. It would certainly explain what her "shadow" half is. I didn't even know Metheus was the name of the ancient queen to begin with.

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Did Ancients at some point live on the surface.

After looking at the other murals, I think they did live on the surface at one point. The first mural shows birds, trees, crops and even the ancients taking carts of supplies deep into some caves. For reference:

 

Spoiler

 

I think it's also worth noting that there seems to be moon-like phases on the top as well. Or it could be possibly reference a solar eclipse as there is a smaller celestial body depicted around it.

[Szczuku]

18 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

It's a really good theory, but I remembered something from one of the murals from the Metheus puzzle:

  Reveal hidden contents

Check out the top right. You can see the ancient king clearly resurrecting the Fuelweaver. That, and the body shape of the ancients here is very different from the Fuelweaver. The ancients aren't even bipedal like the Fuelweaver is. The Fuelweaver was likely from an even older civilization, or possibly from another world as the portal is active in this panel. So he might have been an ancient king, but not the ancient king we're usually talking of.

I think the 1st mural means that ancient king was able to summon/multiply carrots (kinda explains why bunnies have shadow forms) create machines, summon gems, he was even able to reanimate fossils (not fuelweaver) via shadow power. As for fuelweaver I really don't think that there was an even older civilization. You need to remember that we (players) are simply using a random skeleton that we could fit the heart in. The reanimated skeleton is just a body that we placed ancient king's mind into.

[Zeklo]

1 hour ago, Sinister_Fang said:

It's a really good theory, but I remembered something from one of the murals from the Metheus puzzle:

  Reveal hidden contents

Check out the top right. You can see the ancient king clearly resurrecting the Fuelweaver. That, and the body shape of the ancients here is very different from the Fuelweaver. The ancients aren't even bipedal like the Fuelweaver is. The Fuelweaver was likely from an even older civilization, or possibly from another world as the portal is active in this panel. So he might have been an ancient king, but not the ancient king we're usually talking of. (We really need an official name for this civilization instead of just "ancients")

Oh absolutely. The body is all wrong. I was mostly talking about the heart and mind. The "demons", as I call them, were long dead. I always interpreted the staff wielder as unearthing the bones from even deeper down rather than reviving. Then we the players simply give the heart a body to manifest in, but that's purely speculation.

[Sinister_Fang]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

You need to remember that we (players) are simply using a random skeleton that we could fit the heart in. The reanimated skeleton is just a body that we placed ancient king's mind into.

 

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

Oh absolutely. The body is all wrong. I was mostly talking about the heart and mind. The "demons", as I call them, were long dead. I always interpreted the staff wielder as unearthing the bones from even deeper down rather than reviving. Then we the players simply give the heart a body to manifest in, but that's purely speculation.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't really think of it like that.

But it's still a little odd that these "demons" were brought up in the mural in the first place. They were obviously important enough to mention, even in a minor way, but they don't really play much of a role other then to be a host for the ancient king when we resurrect him.

[Zeklo]

38 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

 

That actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't really think of it like that.

But it's still a little odd that these "demons" were brought up in the mural in the first place. They were obviously important enough to mention, even in a minor way, but they don't really play much of a role other then to be a host for the ancient king when we resurrect him.

It might have been used to show passage of time. Otherwise we could assume they existed at the same time as the ancients.

[KoreanWaffles]

8 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Prometheus in greek mythology is known for stealing fire—and both Shadow Charlie & the Grue are shown with those signature wavy shadow hands. The same hands that steal flame away when you're insane. Charlie is currently in the process of collecting white energy from the gateway.

Players often relate the name Metheus to "Prometheus," who stole fire from the gods. However, people seem to forget about his brother, Epimetheus. Whenever people think of Prometheus, they usually resort to "that's the titan who stole fire." But that's only part of the myth: The creation of all animals and mankind. Here's a quick (kinda long actually) rundown of the myth.

Spoiler

     Prometheus and Epimetheus were told to assign traits to all the animals. Epimetheus began by assigning positive traits to the animals. These were things like wings to fly, a sharp sense of smell to hunt, incredible speed, and qualities of that sort. However, by the time he had assigned all the traits to the animals, he had left nothing for mankind. This is where Prometheus comes in. Man was Prometheus' creation. He had shaped it from clay, and Athena had breathed life into the statue. Prometheus gave man an upright position so that he may stand like the gods. Man was required to make animal sacrifices to the gods, so Prometheus conjured a little trick. He took an animal and separated it into its meat, bones, and fat. He wrapped the meats in such a way to make them seem unappealing. He wrapped the bones and fat in such a way to make them seem plump and rich. He presented the two sacks to Zeus to decide which parts of the animal man would sacrifice. Zeus unknowing chose the bag of fat and bones. When he had discovered Prometheus' trickery, he deprived mankind of fire. Prometheus, however, went up to the heavens and light a torch from the sun to bring back to mankind.

     Zeus was now even angrier, and ordered Hephaestus to mold Pandora from earth, a woman of great beauty, but of a treacherous nature. Pandora was given a box that she was not to open. Zeus had Hermes deliver Pandora to Epimetheus as a gift, because he knew Prometheus was too clever to accept her. Epimetheus on the other hand was not so clever, and accepted the gift despite Prometheus warning him not to accept gifts from the gods. When Pandora was sent to earth, her curious nature got the better of her, and she opened the box, which was filled with all sorts of evils: plague, toil, sickness, misfortune, and many others. The other spirit that remained within the box was Hope, which Zeus had ordered not to be allowed to emerge.

     As punishment for Prometheus, Zeus had Hephaestus chain him to a rock, where a vulture would visit him and eat his liver. His liver would regenerate overnight, only to be eaten again the next day by the vulture, subjecting Prometheus to this cycle of repeating torture. Zeus eventually let Prometheus go when he released he could not break this spirit. (Then there are some other things linking Prometheus to the Trojan War, but that's not important right now)

Some things to point out.

The name Prometheus means "forethought," and Epimetheus means "afterthought."
If you take away the prefixes, Metheus simply means "thought," and is the middle ground between the two brothers. Rather fitting for the predicament between Charlie and her shadow side.
Or maybe this mirrors the Ancient King's tragic downfall. Perhaps the Nightmare Throne is the rock that Prometheus was chained to.
Note: The name Metheus has a masculine gender, but Metheus was confirmed to be female. The name Methea would have a feminine gender. Then again, Pugna's name is feminine, and literally translates to "fight." (All hail Battlemaster Fight!)
Note 2: Let's talk about The Forge. It's all fiery and combat related like an anvil and furnace, or otherwise, a forge right? Do you know who else had a forge :thinking:. Hephaestus, the same god who created Pandora and chained Prometheus to a rock, albeit, taking orders from Zeus begrudgingly (Dun Dun Dun!). These are pretty big connections to try to make, but who knows, maybe Pugna is more than we think he is.

If you're an experienced player, then you may have raided the ruins many times before, and noticed that whenever you open an ornate chest in the Labyrinth, your character will announce something along the lines of "that's not good." In the game files, ornate chests are called pandoraschest. Every chest you open is like releasing an evil from out of it. What could these evils be, and how/why were they sealed in the Labyrinth?
Then there's the Ancient Guardian, who is referred to as minotaur in the game files. Fitting as it is the centerpiece of the Labyrinth. Upon death, the Ancient Guardian spawns a Large Ornate Chest. In the game files, it is referred to as minotaurchest, so not necessarily evil like Pandora's box (also, characters do not announce anything bad upon opening it). However, the resemblance is still there.

I couldn't help but notice that the Ancient Key spawns inside the chest, and does not drop from the Ancient Guardian itself (maybe this was just to prevent it from falling into the abyss, or somewhere otherwise unreachable). Why does the Ancient Guardian even spawn a chest, where's the logic in that? Perhaps the contents of the Guardian's chest symbolizes the one thing Pandora never unleashed: hope. Also, why did Klei overlap Pandora and the Labyrinth which have basically no connections to each other?
Note: Ornate Chests can also be found within the Atrium.

I haven't made any fleshed out theories about it yet, but there's some more food for thought. hehe see what I did there

[kertinker]

Well, when Maxwell examines the Ancient Guardian (a living Rook) he says "the fuel has changed you." So, perhaps the use of nightmare fuel changed the Ancients into living chess pieces. And then... unliving ones. It's clear that the three shadow chesspieces are shadow monsters, who all seem to be disembodied spirits of the Ancient Civilization, and it's clear that they're a bit more elite than your average terrorbeak or crawling horror.

So my guess is that the shadow chess pieces were some sort of elite guard, like a band of heroes or something. They were unable to stop the shadow apocalypse, but were given the shadow atrium to protect it from those who seek to repeat the mistakes of the past.  I also think the Ancient Fuelweaver isn't talking about the Ruins, but about the glimpses of what you can see through the portal in the Ancient Gateway.

And the moon... it's not a moon, that much is clear. My guess would be slumbering cosmic entity. Whatever it is created werepigs and hounds, so there's that. And I guess it suppresses the power of the shadow atrium, so the shadow pieces need a new moon to emerge? I wonder if the "moon" is related to that white energy, which seems to be combatting with the black energy in the Metheus Puzzles.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, kertinker said:

It's clear that the three shadow chesspieces are shadow monsters

Well... not quite. The shadow chess pieces are more "tangible" then typical shadow creatures. They don't require a low sanity to interact with, and other creatures (mainly pigs and bunnymen) are capable of attacking them as well. Just like splumonkeys (and we're pretty sure they're not the ancients and/or Them). If they were truly shadow creatures like terrorbeaks and crawling horrors, then the shadow pieces would likely share the same "tangibility" traits as them.

That, and that whole theory relies on the guardian being an ancient in the first place. Maxwell only said it was changed, not what it was changed from. For all we know the fuel could have just made it larger. It could have been literally anything really.

 

[kertinker]

1 hour ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Well... not quite. The shadow chess pieces are more "tangible" then typical shadow creatures. They don't require a low sanity to interact with,

Like near nightmare fissures?

It's true that the normal shadow monsters don't aggro pigs. But that doesn't make the shadow chess pieces the same thing as splumonkeys. Judging by the beard hair, I'd say splumonkeys are "innocent" third party creatures corrupted by nightmare fuel, like how rabbits and bunnymen are, except splumonkeys are just pure dag nasty evil.

I didn't mean to say the Ancient Guardian was an ancient. I meant they were changed by the nightmare fuel. Whatever "special" ancients were these shadow chess pieces, they could have come to resemble said chess pieces for the same reason the Ancient Guardian did. "They" really love chess, I guess?

[Szczuku]

Ok so now I'll trow something in the fire.

I belive that Shadow Pieces are the "gods" that maxwell refers to when he examines pseudo-science station. But Shadow Pieces imo are lapdogs of Them. They Themselves are not here as Fuelweaver says "They're coming. It cannot be stopped" so if They're not here now maybe They never were in Constant but insead used Shadow Pieces as Their way of communicating with the ancients. Ancients belived that they(Shadow Pieces) are the gods and by worshipping them(Shadow Pieces) they(ancients) made clockworks. That explains why clockworks look the way they look.

Now for my other question about shadow autrium:

As I've said earlier Shadow Pieces are the lapdogs of Them. We can see from the murals the cane hold by the King created shadows and had magical powers. And when the shadow apocalypse happened the king wasn't touched by shadows, because he was holding cane so They send Shadow Pieces after him to give him fate worse than death- being forever in Their grasp in form of shadow autruim that is being guarded by Shadow Pieces.

Now for some in-game ruins. Nightmare cycle changes these things:

-Ancient statues into their nightmare forms. i don't know why that happens. Probably just to set the mood

-Anything that is red/purple will turn into bright red (Floor, Slurper's mouth, Depth Worm's fur, Broodling's eyes, even the Warior set skin body paint will start glowing in the ruins)

-Splumonkeys will turn into their shadow form. Shadows made splumonkeys (very, stupid humanoid besically an animal) very aggresive- they will bite you instead of throwing poop. They no longer run away from you, nor they will let you escape so easily. Shadows awake the worst in you(or at least splumonkeys).

Wickerbottom when examining Guardian's Horn says: “An amazingly large horn. I wonder if the nightmare helped fuel the growth.”   That could mean that shadows simply made Ancient Guardian bigger. Maybe before fuel he was something like our horses are. The king used him as a way of moving around ruins. And when apocalypse happed he hid the ancien key in a chest with other goods and gave it to guardian to protect

[Korlie]

There's nothing connecting the ancients and the moon stone, just because the ancients magic works with the moon stone doesn't mean they are directly connected. It just means magic works with other magic.

The three clockworks are based off the three mid hierarchy roles in chess the Bishop, the Knight and the Rook who are all direct servants of the royalty. And since the ancient guardian has the exact same pallet as the Rook, when both guardian and rook have the same role of protection the three roles likely have a literal place in the ancient society they aren't just the names of the clockworks. The Ruins has Sacred, which is the place of a bishop, Military, which is the place of a knight, and the Labyrinth with the rook / Guardian.

The game generally associates the Full Moon with life, as hammering the marble statues brings out actual clockworks, heads on spikes open their eyes, glommer appears and mushrooms blossom. Which means the New Moon represents death, which causes shadows to appear out of the statues instead of clockworks. So the marble statues are likely actual clockworks turned to marble, which are reborn as themselves if the statue is broken under a full moon and reborn as shadows under a new moon. Otherwise it is possible that the statues are the three greatest members of each vocation in the ancient society turned to marble who are reincarnated as machines or shadows based on the moon cycle when the statue is broken. Which would be why when their shadow version is defeated they drop the Atrium Heart because they are protecting it from everybody else.

The shadow atrium is also referenced to radiate sadness and betrayal, which means that it belonged to a specific person who experienced those things, and the atrium is what brings back the Fuelweaver meaning it was the Fuelweaver who was betrayed at some point.

 

It's also ironic that the New Moon is on the first day of the world starting, when the aforementioned systems infers that the new moon represents death. Characters who enter the world as pawns also have their bodies completely changed to be small and compact like dolls, yet Charlie is still normal and Maxwell was as well until he joined everybody else. Maxwell also is seen to actually die from rapid aging after he is let off the throne yet he comes back anyways as a mini person. And when people die they just show up again and or their soul visibly comes out from their body and just hangs around. Nobody ages either. 

So I generally assume that all the survivors are actually dead and the world is a purgatory where they inhabit toy-like bodies based off their original image. And the ones who aren't dead are having their original bodies artificially supported by Them, as in Maxwell and Charlie.

[Szczuku]

24 minutes ago, Korlie said:

1.There's nothing connecting the ancients and the moon stone, just because the ancients magic works with the moon stone doesn't mean they are directly connected. It just means magic works with other magic.

2.The shadow atrium is also referenced to radiate sadness and betrayal, which means that it belonged to a specific person who experienced those things, and the atrium is what brings back the Fuelweaver meaning it was the Fuelweaver who was betrayed at some point.

3.Characters who enter the world as pawns also have their bodies completely changed to be small and compact like dolls, yet Charlie is still normal and Maxwell was as well until he joined everybody else. Maxwell also is seen to actually die from rapid aging after he is let off the throne yet he comes back anyways as a mini person. And when people die they just show up again and or their soul visibly comes out from their body and just hangs around. Nobody ages either. 

1. So who created the moon stone? Maxwell says "I had thought these were all destroyed eons ago" so... who else can we blame for tchem than ancients?

2. If fulweaver is the ancien king then sadnnes would be because all of his people and his queen were destroyed and betrayal because the power he trusted has betrayed him

3. I think the bodies are just because of gameplay. It wouldn't look to good if all characters are samll and then we have giant Maxwell. even Wilson says "he's a lot shorter in person"

[SpikeGuy]

I just want to point out that the moon seems to be associated with a lot of eye imagery and personification. Besides just about everyone commenting on the Moonlenses being eyes of a sort, there's all these Moon Dial comments. Here are some of the more prominent examples:

Spoiler

New Moon

Wolfgang- "Moon is hiding."

WX- "THE MOON IS TAKING A BREAK FROM LOOKING AT ORGANICS"

Maxwell- "The... "moon"... has retreated for now."

Wigfrid- "Mani's retired tö her realm för the eve."

Waxing

WX- "THE MOON IS CHARGING UP"

Wigfrid- "Mani's pöwer gröws!"

Full Moon

Wolfgang- "Moon is very mighty!"

Wendy- "A full moon looms overhead. Watchful."

WX- "MOON AT MAXIMUM POWER"

Waning

Willow- "The moon's outta here!"

Wolfgang- "Moon is get sleepy."

WX- "THE MOON IS ON COOLDOWN"

Wigfrid- "Mani's pöwer is ön the wane."

In Caves

Wolfgang- "Moon is shy in cave!"

Wendy- "Caves. The moon's one weakness."

WX- "THE MOON CAN'T SEE US HERE"

Woodie- "We're free from the moon's reach down here."

Maxwell- "The cave provides sanctuary from the "moon's" prying eyes." 

Wigfrid- "Mani cannöt see us here."

I find the sheer number of times the moon is addressed as a watchful entity funny. It seems that the fuller the moon is, the more powerful its reach, and that the caves are out of its domain. Wendy calls the full moon "watchful" and some of the others specifically talk about being able to hide from being seen by the moon underground. And of course, there's Maxwell's scare quotes. All of this is really getting me wondering about the exact nature of the moon.

Whatever it is, the moon appears to be most closely associated with the element of cold. The Moon Dial is crafted with a Blue Moonlens (made with a Blue Gem) and some Ice, and the Moon Caller's Staff becomes attuned to freezing magic from the Moon Stone's influence.

There's also the Iridescent Gem, of which Wendy says that "I see a million sad eyes reflecting back at me..." and Webber exclaims that "We see eight million eyes reflecting back at us. Neat!". That might just be a way of expressing the reflective property of opals, but there's also Winona's old speech file quote- "This gem feels sad." It's like everything lore-related that we can find reeks of the aftermath of some unspecified tragedy, presumably related to the collapse of the ancients.

Hope someone else can make more of this.

 

Note: I purposely disincluded most of Woodie's quotes from the list because he talks a lot about his curse when thinking about the moon, so it's harder to tell whether he dislikes the moon being full because of the transformation it brings or because he feels like being watched or something.

P.S. There's also Maxwell's quote for the Moon Stone with Star Caller's Staff in ("Something magic-y needs to happen, I think."), which indicates that he doesn't really understand the mechanics of the construct, while he is usually really knowledgeable about magical things.

[kertinker]

1 hour ago, SpikeGuy said:

Whatever it is, the moon appears to be most closely associated with the element of cold.

In the first of the ancient murals, it shows them unearthing a blue gem, and saying a lot about that gem specfically (in a language we can't read). It shows a bunch of blue birds, and then a bunch of ancients carting their stuff into the caves, with a growing dark hole in each of them that looks to me a lot like a symbol for hunger. Snowbirds are um... blue, and very much associated with cold.

It makes me wonder if the coming of this "moon" was what drove the ancients underground, seeking to escape the winter that it brings.

[Sinister_Fang]

5 hours ago, SpikeGuy said:

It's like everything lore-related that we can find reeks of the aftermath of some unspecified tragedy, presumably related to the collapse of the ancients.

I just want to say it's worth noting that a white gem (presumably the iridescent gem) shows up a couple times in the ancient murals. Once with it "falling" when shown among other gems. So this might not be far off.

5 hours ago, SpikeGuy said:

P.S. There's also Maxwell's quote for the Moon Stone with Star Caller's Staff in ("Something magic-y needs to happen, I think."), which indicates that he doesn't really understand the mechanics of the construct, while he is usually really knowledgeable about magical things.

That's actually quite interesting. Maxwell was experienced with umbral magic, but if he's unfamiliar with this then it's possible it's another form of magic he doesn't understand.

It might also be worth noting that Maxwell tried to destroy the moonstones when he was on the throne, possibly with Them manipulating him into destroying the moonstones. They might be threatened by this "lunar magic".

Metheus was using a white magic in one of the murals that could have been this "lunar magic". The portal was also shown with a white magic in it as well, but as they continue the portal is depicted with less and less of the white magic. Charlie is also seen drawing a white magic from the portal in the Forge trailer.

Not really making a point here with this post, but your post did inspire some interesting thoughts.

[SpikeGuy]

Almost forgot, but there's also the Suspicious Moonrocks. Most of the characters don't really have anything noteworthy to say but Wickerbottom makes interesting comments on both:

Hound- "Completely petrified as a result of lunar exposure."

Werepig- "Lunar light catalyzes a strange reaction in its skin."

[Szczuku]

So "the moon" is some sort of being, hmm...

Knowing Ds/t  I'd imagine it as a head floating in space and the moon cycle is it's eye/s opening. The meteors and moon rocks are probably just it coughing or something like that.

[SpikeGuy]

Okay, now for even more moon-related quotes:

Spoiler

Moon Stone, Broken

Wendy- "It's been ravaged by time."

Wickerbottom- "Ancient debris. Perhaps it can be restored?"

Maxwell- "Ruins of an ancient relic."

Moon Stone, Fixed

Willow- "It's expecting something from me."

Wendy- "I felt a terrible chill run down my spine."

Wickerbottom- "The magic of this structure ebbs in predictable cycles."

Maxwell- "I had thought these were all destroyed eons ago."

Wigfrid- "What döst thöu want, altar?"

Moon Stone,Star Staff

WX- "IT NEEDS TO CHARGE"

Moon Stone, Moon Staff

Wilson- "The stone lit it up somehow."

Willow- "Ughh! It's doing the exact opposite of burning!"

Wolfgang- "Sickly little light is not run out."

WX- "GROUNDED MOON OUTLET"

Wickerbottom- "The magic of the stone appears to be inexhaustible."

Woodie-  "That oughta keep us cool."

Maxwell- "The staff is powered by the "moon's" energy."

Wigfrid- "It feeds fröm the pöwer öf Mani!"

Winona- "Moonlight's good for the complexion, hey?"

Moon Stone, Wrong Staff

Wickerbottom- "Hmm... It seems the staves are not interchangeable."

Wigfrid- "This shall nöt please the göds."

Webber- "I don't think it wanted that."

Moon Stone, Cannot place non-staff

Wolfgang- "I do not think little platform would like that."

Wigfrid- "The göds many fröwn were I tö dö that."

Webber- "I think that'd make it angry."

Moon Rubble

WX- "THE MOON MAKES EVERYTHING WORSE, AND THEREFORE BETTER"

Wickerbottom- "What a perplexing transformation."

Maxwell- "This might be bad."

Wigfrid- "It has faced Mani's wrath."

Moon Rock

Wilson- "That rock came from the moon."

Wendy- "It's traveled so far..."

Wickerbottom- "Implications of a lunar body? Interesting."

Wigfrid- "A gift fröm Mani."

Winona- "Woah! What an odd texture."

Moon Rock Wall, held

Wilson- "Very light, but surprisingly tough."

Wendy- "This gift from above should not go to waste."

Moon Rock Wall, placed

Wilson- "Spacey and smooth!"

Wendy- "The moon... she whispers promises of protection to me."

Webber- "We feel safe behind this wall... it makes us sleepy...

Looking back, I noticed that Wigfrid addresses Mani as a female entity, which is strange, since in Norse mythology, Mani is male. So either someone (in or out of the game) didn't do their research properly, or Wigfrid is somehow hinting that the moon entity is female (in combination with Wendy's Moon Rock Wall line). Speaking of Wendy, both she and Wigfrid call the Moon Rocks gifts from the moon, which is kind of interesting.

Also, someone needs to address the thing with the werebeasts (Woodie and the Pigs).

[cookiepersonofdoom]

some quotes that I think will help out in some way but idk.
 

Spoiler

Shadow Atrium
Maxwell - "A pulse of malice and betrayal beats within."
Wendy - "It beats with a sorrow to span the skies and plumb the darkest seas."
Webber - "Why does it make me feel so bad?"

Moonrock Wrong Gem (Iridescent Gem)
Maxwell - "That would be an amateurish misuse of its magic."
Webber - "We'd rather keep this one for ourselves."
WX - "INCORRECT MINERAL-BASED POWER SOURCE"
Wicker - "This gemstone's properties are incorrect for my purposes."

P.S. its not clear if the Iridescent Gem can go in the moonrock and the characters just want it for themselves or it really does not fit in the moonrock.

[Sinister_Fang]

2 hours ago, cookiepersonofdoom said:

P.S. its not clear if the Iridescent Gem can go in the moonrock and the characters just want it for themselves or it really does not fit in the moonrock.

It seems like it either won't work (based off of WX and Wicker's quotes), or it could work, but it's potential would be severely wasted (Maxwell's quote). Everyone just else seems to suffer from "One Ring" syndrome.