hail to the SPOM!

[Argelle]

Thanks to post like this one I finally went to build a decent cold O2 producer.

Do not mind the mess, work just finished a cycle ago

My question is about how efficient the cooling is. I wasn't expecting such a cold temp.

Is this the 'fresh install in a cold biome' effect? (with time it will warm up)

The AETN is much more powerfull than I thought? (for gas, if liquid it won't be ?)

Last but not least, to equilibrate in and outputs, can I rely on the data in tooltips (ONI is a good simulation) or best not waste 30 minutes on calculus, and just go with fiddling with knobs?

[Flydo]

Hydrogen production is sufficient to made hydrogen gen work fully and made the electrolyser and the pump work?

Electrolyser need 120 W and pump 240 W so i see you have on the picture 720 watt machine and hydrogen made 800 W when it fully charge, but i remember it's verry difficult to made an hydrogen  gen work  at 100 % with only electrolyser and you use too the thermonullifier that need hydrogen (why use weezewort with a thermonulifier just next to it)

i suppose that you do the electrolyser work 100 % at the time and alternate the two gas pump to save energy with the automation and smart battery

 

Advice: Cut the wire and destroy the normal battery, the wire to see if you're really autopowered and the normal battery cause now a normal battery lost energy and heating up so you will save small amount of energy and slow the heating up

[Argelle]

With the smart batterie set to 10-50%, the hydrogen generator is not running full time, so hydrogen accumulates in the pipes, and pumps are not active around the clock either. So yes, 800W generator seems ok for the max 720W consumption. But my question about calculations was more about gas pressures and gas volumes than energy (I can plug this system to the main power with coal, nat gas if needed).

My use of a weezewort with a thermonulifier just next to it was a rooky mistake (reading this forum made me thing the ATEN as inefficient, it's not!!).

Same with normal battery : it was charged during work to jumpstart the system, you're right, I do not need it anymore).

 

So back to the hard part :

Input water 333 g/s, ok.

Room size 57 (actual 14/57 H2 & 43/57 O2)

Only one electrolyser is up (the right one not often) so:

Output H2 37 g/s -> generator need 100 g/s (but if on 1/3 of the time is enough)

Output O2 296 g/s -> that would be my oxygen production?

Here is my limit to calculation... what is optimum pumping? High to have a low pressure in the room => electrolysers up more often ? Will it affect the ratio H2/O2 within the room?

 

[Flydo]

The ratio 02/H2 depending on how you pump the two gas

You never have O2 Pumping in your h2 gas pump? never get trouble about this?

Don't count on the description of the electrolyser, i see a vid on it, you can put gas pump all around it turning 100% of time the electroyser going to overpressurized sometimes cause to the time gas take to flow

I don't know if it's could help you but i have a gas pump in room full of hydrogen of hydrogen (between 14-20 Kg pressure), i never have more than 500 g/gas pipe it's look like a gas pump 500g of gas/s, so for me you need to test your system to set your pressure sensor to have 500g/gas tile when you pump is active (for hydrogen, if you have less than that, you will loose energy a pump take the same energy to pump 1g or 500g)

For the oxygen gas pump you need to set it to taking down the pressure of the room depressurized the room but without pumping hydrogen

i think if you set you hydrogen pressure sensor to about above 1000g pressure i will let the time for the gas to flow and pump 500 g (but test it to maximize the efficienty) and oxygen pressure sensor to about above 1500 g pressure

Electrolyser overpressurize at about 1800g/tile

maintain a 1 000 g pressure in the entire room is a good idea

in other way,:

You produce about 37g/s h2 so 500/37 each 13.5ss you need to pump h2 for 1s

you produce about 296g/s o2 so 500/296 each 1.7 s you need to pump o2 for 1s, this two to don't change the room's pressure

[Argelle]

Thanks, really, a big thanks you, I did not get this far with calculation. I'll test and adjust your recomanded pressures for a longer time to see how it goes.

So far, I did not have problem pumping O2 into the H2 pump because there is an excess of hydrogen, so oxygen level into the room is blocked upwards by hydrogen.

The weezewort is gone, but the temperature still arctic, so a shut off circuit for ATEN is needed. Probably a shut off valve to cut hydrogen supply when temperature is too cold, but the consumption is not big, and I expect a lag between the shut down in H2 supply and the actual ATEN beeing off.

[Flydo]

Please share the result here, a good SPOM with a perfect setup could be usefull for me too. Except i have other use for the ATEN is too powerfull to not use it at full power to cool down a huge amount of H2 to a very low temperature to cool down all the hot place of my base.

 

Advice: once your test is done if you have too much energy (can't use all the hydrogen produce) you probably can add two pump on the other side (same design but on the right), one for h2 and another for o2, so you will made more o2. Each machine don't use power 100 % of the time so you probably can add more than 800 W machine

[Kabrute]

if they add 2 more pumps the machines will use 100% up time.

[Flydo]

14 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

if they add 2 more pumps the machines will use 100% up time.

Nope the gas need a certain time to flow to the hydrogen pump, and it left 80 W at full use but electrolyser never be at full use, always have overpressurized time due to gas flow. If you use hydrogen pump 100 % of time you loose energy for nothing

I think they are a possible set up to do so or probably with an automation that alternate the gas pump (the both H2 pump and after the both O2, or alternate H2 O2 pump right side and left side) to use more the second electrolyser,  i will test this.

 

It just the beggining of the SPOM invention, they will be some version in the future that maximise the O2 production

[Kabrute]

indeed

[NanoD]

So this is my go to design for oxygen generation. Usually I just do one chamber and no AETN. 

But if I built it with AETN it would look something like this.

It prodcues about 1000 kg oxygen a cycle or 1.67 kg/s

Output temp stablelizes at about 16-18 C

Gas valve is set to 10 g/s and have a shut off valve if temp in the cooling chamber go below 15 C. Just so that you dont get arctic temps if you not using it on full blast. 

For hydroge chamber pump is set to 700 g

And for the Oxygen chamber pump is set to 600 g. Both pumps run on same atmo sensor.

[Logicsol]

Why two electrolyzers?

You only have 1 pump for oxygen, which isn't enough to handle a single one, much less two.

 

Two pumps would let a single electrolyzer work near full time, and you'd get more oxygen out of it.

This is also part of why the air is coming out so cold. It's spending a longer time in the ATEN room because it's generated faster than it can be removed.

[SkunkMaster]

9 hours ago, Logicsol said:

Why two electrolyzers?

You only have 1 pump for oxygen, which isn't enough to handle a single one, much less two.

 

Using to many electrolyzers is never a bad thing, it's using to many pumps that can be bad. 

[Argelle]

21 hours ago, Flydo said:

Please share the result here, a good SPOM with a perfect setup could be usefull for me too. Except i have other use for the ATEN is too powerfull to not use it at full power to cool down a huge amount of H2 to a very low temperature to cool down all the hot place of my base.

Add a second H2 generator + retroaction loop to stop ATEN if too cold, and it works fine !

* power excess (1600W max but far less used)

* power storage (hydrogen piles up again)

* -10 to -25°C oxygen flow

Hydrogen pump on if pressure above 1000g, same for oxygen pump.

ATEN off if chamber temperature below -10°C

[Flydo]

Look good so with excess power you can now put two more pump on the right side

[Argelle]

With plenty of oxygen, and cold one (yummy) on a continuous flow, I may not pump more, but instead make use of hydrogen, either for electrical power or to build hydrogen cooling chambers.

 

[Flydo]

Il will construct one fast cause i have some trouble with my own oxygen generation

41 minutes ago, Argelle said:

With plenty of oxygen, and cold one (yummy) on a continuous flow, I may not pump more, but instead make use of hydrogen, either for electrical power or to build hydrogen cooling chambers.

Sure you need to use extra power because if you don't, this room will finish to be overpressurized by hydrogen, so you will pump hydrogen in you oxygen pump or stop producing oxygen in some cycle

You just need to know how much hydrogen excess you have and put a gas valve with the right set up

[Logicsol]

On 4/1/2018 at 10:11 AM, Argelle said:

With plenty of oxygen, and cold one (yummy) on a continuous flow, I may not pump more, but instead make use of hydrogen, either for electrical power or to build hydrogen cooling chambers.

 

In theory, a second  pump should allow you to generate more hydrogen.

Too much O2 over-pressurizes the electrolyzers, which decreases both H and O2 production in proportion. This will work fine for a while thanks to the large area oxygen is building up in around the AETN, but eventually it's going to cause pressure issues, dropping output, and worse, mix your gases.

 

You could work to store the extra O2 in a vault. That way you have extra O2 for emergencies, and maintain a higher H output for power usage.

[Argelle]

I did not go this road, well, sort of, I flood my base and the rest of the asteroid with O2, so that's a sort of storage

But it's not as good as a storage, because in case of even a small drop in water supply oxydizer stops, and all go to hell....

[Flydo]

4 hours ago, Argelle said:

I did not go this road, well, sort of, I flood my base and the rest of the asteroid with O2, so that's a sort of storage

But it's not as good as a storage, because in case of even a small drop in water supply oxydizer stops, and all go to hell....

Sometime, my electrolyser system stop working cause i have to much oxygen in my base, i never think about it but it's really will be a good idea to have a 20 Kg high pressure room of oxygen in case of emergency, thank for the idea guy