Ketmol Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Why -"how to cool down your geyser water" is the wrong question to ask. And why a better question is what water actually needs cooling and why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhailRaptor Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The issue with not cooling water for your Sinks, Lavatories, and Showers is that the water in storage inside the device will heat the area. Which will in turn heat the Sink, Lavatory, and Shower quite easily, because they are all made of metal. This will require you to provide some manner of cooling in that area around the bathroom. You certainly don't have to cool it as far as Berries or Wheat would require, but it is still something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketmol Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 hours ago, PhailRaptor said: The issue with not cooling water for your Sinks, Lavatories, and Showers is that the water in storage inside the device will heat the area. Which will in turn heat the Sink, Lavatory, and Shower quite easily, because they are all made of metal. This will require you to provide some manner of cooling in that area around the bathroom. You certainly don't have to cool it as far as Berries or Wheat would require, but it is still something to think about. I think it is around 5kg in the storage. As long as the bathroom isn't so hot that they take damage it is fine. All heat that is not lost in the bathroom will be lost for free at the fertilizers. So the problem is that if you only lower your water temperature for the bathrooms to lets say 70+ degrees. The bathrooms, given enough time will slowly heat up to that, meaning you are forced to lower all the water passing through to maybe some 50 degrees for that not to happen.. Even if the process of the heating is super slow, Now that takes a LOT more energy than simply cooling the oxygen for the bathroom (and other parts of the base to prevent the little heat that the water in storage gives of, before passing on, since it might be equal to some 3-5 degrees of temperature transfer from water to surrounding) and the rest of the heat is simply deleted for free at the fertilizers., in short, for bathrooms it is simpler and mostly just more energy efficient to not cool the water but rather just the heat from it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab1 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 So what is the source of your early water resource? And BTW saw your video on cooling the base with oil based coolant in aqua tuner. I am not sure but are you not using drip cooling bug for cooling your aqua tuners?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketmol Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 27 minutes ago, Tab1 said: So what is the source of your early water resource? And BTW saw your video on cooling the base with oil based coolant in aqua tuner. I am not sure but are you not using drip cooling bug for cooling your aqua tuners?. Y, unintentional but yes, However I think you will end up using the drip cooling bug in every possible way that u can boil water except for when using magma. Pretty much on the floor of the hot machinery for it to be effective.- To much water there and the machines won't run hot enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab1 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I am all for using wheezeworts and AETN that is BUILT IN the game by the developers but this bug is not built-in, its unintentional that will probably be fixed in the future so any cooling system based on that bug is unreliable in the future. Sorry nothing personal but you should really mention that in your videos/post that you are using that exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tab1 said: ..that you are using that exploit. Everyone who moves liquid in this game, has big chance to trigger it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab1 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Oozinator said: Everyone who moves liquid in this game, has big chance to trigger it.. dont you mean drop the liquid rather than move it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, Tab1 said: I am all for using wheezeworts and AETN that is BUILT IN the game by the developers but this bug is not built-in, its unintentional that will probably be fixed in the future so any cooling system based on that bug is unreliable in the future. Sorry nothing personal but you should really mention that in your videos/post that you are using that exploit. Many, if not most, great game features started out as unintended bugs. There's no certainty that features that exist in the game will be removed or not. In this case it's relatively safe to say it's a permanent feature. 5 minutes ago, Tab1 said: dont you mean drop the liquid rather than move it? No, moving liquids in any way where two tiles of liquid meet and there's a difference in mass between them will trigger the effect. This includes using liquid pumps, vents, pitcher pumps, and bottle emptiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tab1 said: dont you mean drop the liquid rather than move it? No i mean that what Saturnus said ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketmol Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 34 minutes ago, Tab1 said: I am all for using wheezeworts and AETN that is BUILT IN the game by the developers but this bug is not built-in, its unintentional that will probably be fixed in the future so any cooling system based on that bug is unreliable in the future. Sorry nothing personal but you should really mention that in your videos/post that you are using that exploit. Cooling with a setup like that comes from several parts (I have a new improved version i am using that I will post a video on later on) But it is a combination of the liquid cooling bug (to some degree), the difference in boiling temperature between polluted water and clean water, and the result of some machinery having fixed output temperatures, (you can, for example, use close to boiling clean water to feed machinery with lower fixzed output temperatures like electrolyzer or carbon scimmer...) But the aquatuner-cooling it is not nearly as exploity as borg-cube and it would work even without the liquid bug, just not as effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repseki Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Saturnus said: Many, if not most, great game features started out as unintended bugs. There's no certainty that features that exist in the game will be removed or not. In this case it's relatively safe to say it's a permanent feature. No, moving liquids in any way where two tiles of liquid meet and there's a difference in mass between them will trigger the effect. This includes using liquid pumps, vents, pitcher pumps, and bottle emptiers. Does that have anything to do with the weirdness I am seeing when I try to pipe cooled water around hot machinery for cooling. Somehow causing the 14C~ water to rapidly drop in temperature (often freezing) before shooting back up by the next pipe section. Or is that just some other wonkyness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, Repseki said: Does that have anything to do with the weirdness I am seeing when I try to pipe cooled water around hot machinery for cooling. Somehow causing the 14C~ water to rapidly drop in temperature (often freezing) before shooting back up by the next pipe section. Or is that just some other wonkyness? Sometimes it just bugs out. I find it happens a lot with igneous rock pipes and almost never with granite pipes but it's just a random bug. Other times you'll get a tile that heats up to hundreds of degrees for absolutely no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu_x32 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Saturnus said: In this case it's relatively safe to say it's a permanent feature. What are the reasons for believing the liquid cooling exploit will stay? After them fixing the tepidizer recently, I don't have much hope for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, manu_x32 said: What are the reasons for believing the liquid cooling exploit will stay? After them fixing the tepidizer recently, I don't have much hope for this one. Tepidizer was an easy fix though. The heat deletion bug was introduced when they fixed deleting liquids entirely. Before that liquids that flowed down was deleted but there was no heat deletion so if you built a staircase with 4 drops it would destroy thousands of tonnes of liquid per second. Now we have heat deletion but no mass deletion. I know which option is prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraluminal Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Does the drip-cooling bug also work in reverse, that is as a drip-heating bug? If I have a liquid vent dumping 10kg/s of hot water down into a reservoir of 10t of cold water, will it disproportionately heat the reservoir? I for one really hope they do fix the bug because it's extremely counter-intuitive and confusing. Part of the fun of complex sim games is dealing with unintended consequences and knock-on effects, but it's only fun if you can actually reasonably parse out the causal chain and make adjustments accordingly. The game offers no UI to help players understand how dripping liquids affects heat, and it runs completely counter to all real-world expectations of how things "should" work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, Supraluminal said: Does the drip-cooling bug also work in reverse, that is as a drip-heating bug? If I have a liquid vent dumping 10kg/s of hot water down into a reservoir of 10t of cold water, will it disproportionately heat the reservoir? No, it will still delete most of the heat in the hotter liquid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraluminal Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, Saturnus said: No, it will still delete most of the heat in the hotter liquid. OK, so dumping the 40C output of a water sieve into my 25C reservoir means I'm getting free heat deletion? In my base where I'm actually doing exactly that it certainly is heating the reservoir over time, but maybe not as much as it ought to, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Supraluminal said: I for one really hope they do fix the bug because it's extremely counter-intuitive and confusing. Part of the fun of complex sim games is dealing with unintended consequences and knock-on effects, but it's only fun if you can actually reasonably parse out the causal chain and make adjustments accordingly. We found out the nature of the heat deletion bug by observations and testing hypothesis on the cause and function. I like that. Makes the game compelling and interesting to play when you don't know exactly why something happens, and you have to test it out to see what is really going on instead of having everything served to you on a platter. From a science point of view that's one of things that makes ONI a really good game. In science, we know that we don't know everything, so we test things to see how they work, and why they work as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzkhie Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 next time klei goes live on twitch, someone or everyone should really ask if this exploits or bug are features or going to be removed, because i believe this exploits have been around for sometime yet they never addressed it on hotfixes, like saturnus said: 6 hours ago, Saturnus said: Many, if not most, great game features started out as unintended bugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu_x32 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Saturnus said: Tepidizer was an easy fix though. The heat deletion bug was introduced when they fixed deleting liquids entirely. Before that liquids that flowed down was deleted but there was no heat deletion so if you built a staircase with 4 drops it would destroy thousands of tonnes of liquid per second. Now we have heat deletion but no mass deletion. I know which option is prefer. I'm sure Klei would find ways to address this one too if that's not how they intend us to solve cooling problems. I mean, the borg cube makes the game 20 times easier, it pretty much fixes any cooling issue, and it's super easy to build early in a survival game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, manu_x32 said: I'm sure Klei would find ways to address this one too if that's not how they intend us to solve cooling problems. I mean, the borg cube makes the game 20 times easier, it pretty much fixes any cooling issue, and it's super easy to build early in a survival game. Yeah. It is a great design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Lutzkhie said: next time klei goes live on twitch, someone or everyone should really ask if this exploits or bug are features or going to be removed, because i believe this exploits have been around for sometime yet they never addressed it on hotfixes They try hard (i bet).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrough Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I decided not to use drip-cooling when I first discovered it because it seemed like too good of an exploit. So I searched for other methods, but most alternatives offered are also just exploiting heat being deleted in some other manner, but with complicated setups that don't seem like developer intent to me. Sieve is there to clean water, not remove heat. Skimmer is there to remove carbon, not make polluted water for the sole purpose of recleaning it. I feel that all these little exploits are something the developers would likely want to work out in the future. So, in the meantime, I will gladly choose the easy option and drip drip drip. I am way too lazy to calculate, but I reckon we can generate far more heat than a few AETNs and worts can remove "legitimately". I say give us a void or access to space. Then we can still delete heat and the narrative is much easier to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhailRaptor Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, andrough said: I say give us a void or access to space. Then we can still delete heat and the narrative is much easier to argue. Yes, plz, bring back the Void! En taro Zeratul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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