Is it worth farming Morbs in the early game?

[Davaned]

I am considering never cleaning my toilets (gross right) and just cycling between a few to encourage morb spawns right off the bat. Is it worth spending the time and effort to try and get a bunch of them so that it supplements my oxygen? 
Also, why do I see doors with 10s of morbs inside them? How does that work?

[Kabrute]

vertical doors act like cages for animals that jump into the top of them.

[Keyimin]

I'm not sure why you'd want to expose your dupes to slimelung early game 

Unless you get a crappy starting biome, you shouldn't have any issues surviving on deoxydizers until well into the game (100-200 cycles) as long as you're not oxygenating the world lol.

[clickrush]

You don't have to start super early on:

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Morb

You need about 7 morbs per dupe if you want a fully PO2 based oxygen production. You can produce Morbs fast if you have multiple outhouses that you close off with door restrictions until the morbs are spawned, just make sure you have enough of them. However I recommend you get to plastic first as you can relocate them more easily that way.

If you want to purify oxygen via liquifying it you need roughly >300W per dupe to pull that off w/o exploits. You can reduce that number by pre cooling polluted oxygen with nullifiers, which means you want a steady supply of hydrogen. For example a hybrid system where you produce electrolyzer based oxygen to your exosuits and use purified oxygen for your base can provide more than enough hydrogen.

If your oxygen purification is primed with hydrogen bubblers, then you can further reduce the amount of cooling by switching to aquatuner based cooling. Aquatuners have the advantage that they use less pumps. An aquatuner moves about the same amount of heat as >4 regulators, because hydrogen has a 2.4 times higher heat capacity, while the aquatuner is about 2x as powerefficient on the same capacity, but the problem is that you need about a 1:3 ratio of pumps and regulators so you don't liquify the hydrogen and break the pipes, so the aquatuners win out here.

With the current heat bug you can reduce the power consumption even more if you are using aquatuners and build a borg cube with liquid oxygen if you want to use an exploit.

So you see with all these requirements: plastic, high amount of power consumption, long time to prime the system etc. you will have plenty of time to collect morbs safely after you are well into atmo suits and a sealed off base.

[Roxanne4018]

)

I like to start an early morb production so that I have them when I need them. The first building I build now is that. the most accessible toilet has a high priority and the other one doesn't but dupes lean it from time to time. I add 2 deoxydizers  around the bottle emptier (set to polutted water) quick enough to keep the air clean Morbs can't escape, I get 2 latrine rooms which help a lot with stress early game. I don't get any slimelung problem since that polluted oxygen is never in contact with it. Oh and the morbs deal with the small amount of CO2 that accumulated there. 

Eventually I move all the morbs and pump the polluted water away to boil for kitchen use.

[Kabrute]

1 hour ago, clickrush said:

You don't have to start super early on:

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Morb

You need about 7 morbs per dupe if you want a fully PO2 based oxygen production. You can produce Morbs fast if you have multiple outhouses that you close off with door restrictions until the morbs are spawned, just make sure you have enough of them. However I recommend you get to plastic first as you can relocate them more easily that way.

If you want to purify oxygen via liquifying it you need roughly >300W per dupe to pull that off w/o exploits. You can reduce that number by pre cooling polluted oxygen with nullifiers, which means you want a steady supply of hydrogen. For example a hybrid system where you produce electrolyzer based oxygen to your exosuits and use purified oxygen for your base can provide more than enough hydrogen.

If your oxygen purification is primed with hydrogen bubblers, then you can further reduce the amount of cooling by switching to aquatuner based cooling. Aquatuners have the advantage that they use less pumps. An aquatuner moves about the same amount of heat as >4 regulators, because hydrogen has a 2.4 times higher heat capacity, while the aquatuner is about 2x as powerefficient on the same capacity, but the problem is that you need about a 1:3 ratio of pumps and regulators so you don't liquify the hydrogen and break the pipes, so the aquatuners win out here.

With the current heat bug you can reduce the power consumption even more if you are using aquatuners and build a borg cube with liquid oxygen if you want to use an exploit.

So you see with all these requirements: plastic, high amount of power consumption, long time to prime the system etc. you will have plenty of time to collect morbs safely after you are well into atmo suits and a sealed off base.

I got it down to 40watts per dupe without exploits or precooling

[Davaned]

I've never encountered any issues with using a deodorizer, so I assumed I'd just filter the air to pure O2 and let it sit for a while then pump it into the base. But the LO2 strat seems like a good way to grow a sustainable O2 production line. 

Damn, really want this update to come out so I can start a new world and try it.

[clickrush]

41 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

I got it down to 40watts per dupe without exploits or precooling

I highly doubt that. The pumping of PO2 and finally O2 alone is 24W + 24W = 48W per dupe. So we already surpassed your 40W just with basic infrastructure.

Then there is cooling. You have to move 100g/s down about 240C. An aquatuner moves 100 times the mass but 0.06 times the heat, which means it provides enough cooling for 6ish dupes. An aquatuner needs a pump so that makes (240 + 1200) / 6 = 240W per dupe.

That plus the previously mentioned 48W is 288W per dupe, so roughly 300W.

[Kabrute]

ah but combining throttling(not constant power demand) extreme efficiency in build, and not using gas pumps at all. while cycling up was processing over 1500 g/s at 40 cycles, and climbing steadily in speed thus constantly being tuned back.  When I throttled it down to just 10 dupes it was averaging less than 400watts per second to feed 10, thus I had it under 40.  but its whatever...

[clickrush]

1 hour ago, Kabrute said:

ah but combining throttling(not constant power demand) extreme efficiency in build, and not using gas pumps at all. while cycling up was processing over 1500 g/s at 40 cycles, and climbing steadily in speed thus constantly being tuned back.  When I throttled it down to just 10 dupes it was averaging less than 400watts per second to feed 10, thus I had it under 40.  but its whatever...

Can you share with a picture or something how you did that?

[Kabrute]

The key is in the massive metal rail that ensures 99% of all cold stays inside, even though liquid oxygen is dumping in the bottom of that rail, the air coming off the top is between 0 and 5c

[clickrush]

I can't see it very well but the system seems to be very large and open. The calculation I did above assumes a closed system with a worst case of about 50C 'ish input and the aquatuner, or regulators in your case is cooled by the liquid oxygen.

The 9 Wheezeworts alone add 108kW of cooling which is almost half of the cooling you need for 1kg/s of oxygen, so there goes about 100C.

Then the input oxygen from your farm is I assume close to the minimum mealwood temperature so you get another 40C.

But that still leaves us at about 100W of power. But the picture is so small that I really can't see it all that well, so these are just rough assumptions.

[Kasuha]

34 minutes ago, clickrush said:

I can't see it very well but the system seems to be very large and open. The calculation I did above assumes a closed system with a worst case of about 50C 'ish input and the aquatuner, or regulators in your case is cooled by the liquid oxygen.

The 9 Wheezeworts alone add 108kW of cooling which is almost half of the cooling you need for 1kg/s of oxygen, so there goes about 100C.

Then the input oxygen from your farm is I assume close to the minimum mealwood temperature so you get another 40C.

But that still leaves us at about 100W of power. But the picture is so small that I really can't see it all that well, so these are just rough assumptions.

I can't see it very well too but I think I understand the principle. Instead of using many regulators to cool the PO, just use the cold oxygen just after it evaporated for the same purpose. Using countercurrent heat exchange you can get PO very close to its dew temperature and then just give it a tiny kick with a regulator to turn it liquid.

You still need a gas pump to get the produced oxygen somewhere and that's 48 W per duplicant, assuming they breathe 100 g/s. But power usage for the cooling can be brought very low.

[clickrush]

Just now, Kasuha said:

I can't see it very well too but I think I understand the principle. Instead of using many regulators to cool the PO, just use the cold oxygen just after it evaporated for the same purpose. Using countercurrent heat exchange you can get PO very close to its dew temperature and then just give it a tiny kick with a regulator to turn it liquid.

You still need a gas pump to get the produced oxygen somewhere and that's 48 W per duplicant, assuming they breathe 100 g/s. But power usage for the cooling can be brought very low.

Yeah that is the principle how the heat or rather cold is reused so to speak. But the system then would heat up the regulators until they break if you don't use the liquid/cold oxygen to cool them. In theory there is no net cooling going on here.

So in the end it is really the Wheezeworts that are saving power here, because that 108kW of cooling they provide doesn't need to be drained from the oxygen.

You'd still won't end up with only 40W/dupe but rather around 100ish. But the system is so large and partly open that it might actually slowly heat up in X cycles without @Kabrute noticing it right now.

All of this assumes that there isn't some additional cooling going on through other influences or even bugs that we didn't notice here.

[Kabrute]

no weezeworts in that build, there may be heat deletion occuring in the buildup of lox as I use the thermal mass of the liquid oxygen to kick the incoming po2 the final notch over to liquid state, operating near that flood state when the lox transistions it is much colder in temp, and cools the liquid below down(1 bug).  In sending the lox up and out it passed 99% of the cold directly into the vent and the rail, its part of what makes borg cube so powerful (2 bug).  I used doors at every stage other than the liquid flow because doors need 0 power and will allow pressures to flow.  The open design acted as a buffer, 40k exiting the pipe blossomed to 5k just past the last door.  atmo sensors acted as a scissor gate constantly flipping the pressure to keep it down(may have deleted gas 3 bug).  I built it as a personal challenge and even still have a half a dozen design upgrades to incorporate but have lost my mojo.

[Kasuha]

6 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Yeah that is the principle how the heat or rather cold is reused so to speak. But the system then would heat up the regulators until they break if you don't use the liquid/cold oxygen to cool them. In theory there is no net cooling going on here.

I don't see how the regulators are cooled in his build but theoretically you don't need any special cooling for them - the heat absorbed is equal to heat released so you can only use them to get the PO liquid, then spill the liquid oxygen on them to turn it into gas again and during that you balance the heat they took on themselves.

[clickrush]

9 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

I don't see how the regulators are cooled in his build but theoretically you don't need any special cooling for them - the heat absorbed is equal to heat released so you can only use them to get the PO liquid, then spill the liquid oxygen on them to turn it into gas again and during that you balance the heat they took on themselves.

Yes that is exactly what I meant. But the picture seems to show wheezeworts next to the regulators right? So the liquid oxygen isn't cooling the regulators fully as I can count 9 Wheezeworts. That is 9 * 12kW of cooling that is brought in additionally which is like -100C on 1kg of O2.

I think we talked past eachother here

@Kabrute I could have sworn there are Wheezeworts next to your regulators. The picture is just way too small!

[watermelen671]

6 hours ago, Kabrute said:

The key is in the massive metal rail that ensures 99% of all cold stays inside, even though liquid oxygen is dumping in the bottom of that rail, the air coming off the top is between 0 and 5c

Jesus, that's a lot of mealwood. 0_0