Charlies reign of the shadow throne, and the ancient murals in Metheus.

[Shartokyo]

I love to go back to different puzzles and discover new things about them. On a thread about the cyclum puzzles, I heard how Charlie could be the one on the shadow throne. Once I saw the evidence, I couldn’t argue with it. (I will get into detail about the murals a little later).

The cyclum part.

First, after the cyclum puzzle was solved, Maxwell name was erased from the menu and roses were added, which is what people mostly associate Charlie with. Then, Maxwell was added into the game, and he got himself a survivor skin. Isn’t it odd how Maxwell, a villain of DST, is now a playable character and seemingly not a villain anymore? The survivor skin shows how he is now an actual “normal” character, because all other playable characters had a survivor skin. Also, when Willow examines the florid posters, she says that the vines move away from her lighter. Charlie comes out only at night, and goes away with light, exactly what the florid postern is doing. The murals, which I will get into, also help. In the murals it shows two figures, one wielding a tragic torch and another wielding an ancient cane, who I believe to be Charlie and Maxwell. At some points, each one seems to have more power than the other, which I believe to be their control over the nightmare throne. (I will talk more on this later).

The Metheus part.

The murals in the Metheus puzzle are quite hard to identify, but this is what I think. The two figures holding the torch and cane are Maxwell and Charlie. At first, when I told this to people, they said it can’t be possible, because Maxwell is already a character. And I was stumped. But, after I saw this cyclum thing, I thought this again. The shifts in power are when one is on the shadow throne, and the other is not. When Charlie is on, Maxwell does not have power and becomes a playable character. This could also mean that the ancients can predict the future, and that the murals tell some parts of the DS universe.

What do you think? I would love to see your opinions on this.

[carlos12111]

Idk because in regard of the torch and staff wielders I thought that they were the first rulers of the ancient civilization (so they were bug people), but how u mentioned one overthrew the other (staff wielder) and this was all during the same time when the ancient civilization was starting to use and overuse dark fuel which led to their downfall

[Sinister_Fang]

Charlie being on the throne is old news. The cinematic on the main menu shows her actually sitting on the throne.

And as for the murals, I don't think they depict Charlie and Maxwell. They clearly not anything close to human, so it's likely they're the Ancients that found or made the throne. The murals also show the portal and nightmare fuel flowing from it. I believe this is just showing the origin of the fuel/Them, and the start of a cycle that's been continuing for who knows how long. Apparently Pugna was on the throne once, so who knows how many others have sat upon it before Maxwell and Charlie arrived.

[Zeklo]

The torch & cane wielder are, ancients and, most likely some of the gatekeepers Pugna refers too.

If you wanna put this to a more metaphorical sense than what is depicted in the murals does somewhat reflect what happens to Maxwell and Charlie—in a "history repeats itself" sort of way.

[pedregales]

As far as I see, the murals on Metheus puzzle talk about the ancients and the things they did; it seems they hunted rabbits and farmed carrots, while also mined gems and thulecite, they also seemed to fight cave worms (or at least a cave worm like creature), or maybe they fed it with gems? I don't know, I didn't understand that part. Anyway, Metheus* was mentioned by the Ancient Fuelweaver, and seeing how both puzzles are named Cyclum and Metheus, is very possible one of the ancients in the murals is Metheus, and the Ancient Fuelweaver may very well be Cyclum (saying this because there are 2 figures that look a lot like the Ancient Fuelweaver, one more than the other).

*It's interesting to note that Metheus sounds a lot like Matthews, so Metheus might have been a guy/male ancient. "Cyclum" 's gender though is completely uncertain, but I'd say female just because most of the giants are female (bee queen, spider queen, m/Goose, dragonfly, supposedly deerclops and bearger; the only ones we are almost certain are male are the antlion -although Wigfrid refered to it as a lioness before, so maybe it has more ant than lion...-, and Klaus, other giant's are either uncertain or maybe varies -toadstool, for example-). If that is the case, then this characters share the same initials and genders as Maxwell (Metheus) and Charlie (Cyclum). But all of this is just a theory.

[minespatch]

Yeah, Metheus is basically the bible/origin story for the constant. We'll get more lore in the future but the metheus puzzle was a nice present from Klei.

[Toroic]

17 hours ago, pedregales said:

As far as I see, the murals on Metheus puzzle talk about the ancients and the things they did; it seems they hunted rabbits and farmed carrots, while also mined gems and thulecite, they also seemed to fight cave worms (or at least a cave worm like creature), or maybe they fed it with gems? I don't know, I didn't understand that part. Anyway, Metheus* was mentioned by the Ancient Fuelweaver, and seeing how both puzzles are named Cyclum and Metheus, is very possible one of the ancients in the murals is Metheus, and the Ancient Fuelweaver may very well be Cyclum (saying this because there are 2 figures that look a lot like the Ancient Fuelweaver, one more than the other).

*It's interesting to note that Metheus sounds a lot like Matthews, so Metheus might have been a guy/male ancient. "Cyclum" 's gender though is completely uncertain, but I'd say female just because most of the giants are female (bee queen, spider queen, m/Goose, dragonfly, supposedly deerclops and bearger; the only ones we are almost certain are male are the antlion -although Wigfrid refered to it as a lioness before, so maybe it has more ant than lion...-, and Klaus, other giant's are either uncertain or maybe varies -toadstool, for example-). If that is the case, then this characters share the same initials and genders as Maxwell (Metheus) and Charlie (Cyclum). But all of this is just a theory.

I don’t know where you’re getting the giant genders from, but deerclops and bearger are definitely male, bee queen, antlion, Goose Goose and  dragonfly are definitely female.

[Sinister_Fang]

24 minutes ago, Toros said:

antlion ... are definitely female.

Antlion is likely a male actually. Wigfrid used to say "Tis the mighty lioness!" but in a later update it was changed to "Tis the mighty lion!". The Antlion also has a mane, a trait that's primarily seen only in male lions. Although in some rare cases female lions have been seen with a mane...

 

[pedregales]

18 minutes ago, Toros said:

I don’t know where you’re getting the giant genders from, but deerclops and bearger are definitely male, bee queen, antlion, Goose Goose and  dragonfly are definitely female.

I read an user say deerclops and bearger are both female (according to this user, it was said on a dev stream), but I didn't proof-read (so I don't know for sure), that is why I said they were supposedly female. Of course, in-game the only one of those 2 definitely referred as male more than once is the deerclops (by Wolfgang, Maxwell, and Webber), the bearger's gender is still very up in the air (only Walani from SW refers to it as "dude", but seeing the laid-back nature of the character, is likely it has no relation to it's gender).

As for the antlion, is more likely that it is male, or maybe varies. Wigfrid is the only character that has mentioned it's gender: when the antlion was first released she referred to it as "mighty lioness", but now she refers to it as "mighty lion". Either Klei wanted the antlion to be a male and made a mistake with Wigfrid's quotes, or didn't want it to be pure female, either way they fixed Wigfrid's quotes.

[Fuffles]

I can give you an easy solution to what gender the giants are via biology and other features
1. Deerclops
    Well We know its a deer and a cyclops, lets look at the Deer part because I doubt the Cyclops part will help here. Male Deers Have Antlers. Females Don't. Deerclops has Antlers. Male

2. Goose/Goose
   Well this is quite easy since it lays Eggs and when it turns up you can see big eyelashes which in cartoons are female features. But it seems to have Antlers so I suppose its a Male Goose and a Female Goose mix, but still at the end. Female

3. Dragonfly
   Well this is also a quite easy one, The Dragonfly Spits out Larvae and can drop an Egg. So its Female

4. Bearger
   This one was tough, because Bears only big difference is size and since Giants are Giant I excluded this, but Badgers, their definitive feature is Head Sizes. Females have a more sleek head build while males have a bulkier head build. If you look at Bearger, it seems like his head is quite thick so I'd assume its a Male.