The Game Play Mechanic Of Heat Is 100% Backwards

[vonVile]

I've come to the realization that when it comes to heat ONI has it 100% backwards of how it should be. Currently this game is build around not having things overheat when it should be the exact opposite. This game should be about creating heat and stopping the colony from freezing to death. The reason being the Dupes are living on an asteroid in the middle of space. Space is freezing cold, so that means the temperature should over time be get colder and it happen quicker the more players dig out the asteroid. Players will have to use Heaters, Batteries, etc. to keep Dupes from freezing to death.

Another major flaw is heat retention. Water from a Geyser shouldn't stay at a constant high temperature long after release. Hot water should always be losing heat at a rapid pace. It crazy that 20+ Weezeworts can't put a dent into cooling down water straight from a Geyser. I know there's a bug where 1 drop hitting another huge mass to liquid turns into what the drip is, but that's only part of the problem. Heat transfer in water needs to be fixed. The bigger mass of liquid should be the dominate temperature and when a bunch of new liquid enters it should barely effect the larger mass beyond the adjacent tiles decreasing as the tiles spread outward.

For example if there's a 1 tile column of water 20 tiles high when it starts filling the temperature would be be the same as the liquid dropping into it. As it fills the large mass begins to become the dominate temperature as is cools. When the column is say 10 tiles high the dripping liquid would only affect the first 5 tiles. The first tile would do like a 50% change in temperature. Each following lower tile would be 10% less affected. The bottom 5 tiles would ignore the drips completely and keep cooling until it hits whatever the room temperature is.

[Risu]

Go try to survive Helicona if you want to freeze to death.
 

[Executive_Lurker]

omilerd. you've blown my mind. was about to suggest something similar where it gets hotter further down and colder further "out" with horizontal world wrap to suggest a spherical body. 

[Coolthulhu]

You're forgetting that the asteroid is surrounded by perfectly isolating magical neutronium and has lots of nearly perfectly isolating abyssalite in it. And if it didn't have the magical isolation, it wouldn't have boiling geysers or magma either - those would freeze long ago, before the ecosystem had a chance to stabilize.

Unless the asteroid is orbiting a star, in which case it may have Earth-like temperatures just because of the proximity to the star.

So no, it's not physics in the game being wrong, just you having different view from Klei.

[Executive_Lurker]

or just a new game mode you're not even going to give a chance, but yeah screw people who would like to believe their on an asteroid and not some illogical fireball surrounded by magic hard stuff

also you absolutely have to know at this point that the nutronium is just a place-holder. what are you saying?

I mean hellcona or whatever exists so that says SOMEONE at Klei has thought of death by cold.

[Lifegrow]

2 minutes ago, Executive_Lurker said:

or just a new game mode you're not even going to give a chance, but yeah screw people who would like to believe their on an asteroid and not some illogical fireball surrounded by magic hard stuff

also you absolutely have to know at this point that the nutronium is just a place-holder. what are you saying?

I mean hellcona or whatever exists so that says SOMEONE at Klei has thought of death by cold.

Wow, I don't think @Coolthulhusaid anything of the sort - but merely pointed out (quite rightly) that we do have geysers - not to mention native warm biomes, wildlife, liquids, etc etc.

By your rationale, all of these things would be either dead or frozen  It's a game ffs  

I would also point out that if you've ever played long enough, and dug out enough of your asteroid - the cold wins, not heat - so take some solace in that maybe?

[Prayos]

Sorry to destroy your world, guys. People tend to believe that everything that gets into space immediately freezes, because in space the temperature is near absolute zero, right? Wrong. In space, its not just cold, but there is also an almost absolute vacuum. And no matter means (almost) no heat transfer. Heat in space can only be transferred by infrared radiation. Just like in every Thermos bottle, things keep their temperature for a very long time. This is the reason why space suits dont have built in heaters, but a cooling system. And this is also why in ONI things get hotter and hotter: Because the heat cant go nowhere else.

[Kermack]

50 minutes ago, Prayos said:

Sorry to destroy your world, guys. People tend to believe that everything that gets into space immediately freezes, because in space the temperature is near absolute zero, right? Wrong. In space, its not just cold, but there is also an almost absolute vacuum. And no matter means (almost) no heat transfer. Heat in space can only be transferred by infrared radiation. Just like in every Thermos bottle, things keep their temperature for a very long time. This is the reason why space suits dont have built in heaters, but a cooling system. And this is also why in ONI things get hotter and hotter: Because the heat cant go nowhere else.

I came here to post this.  Space has zero thermal conductivity because it is nothing.

 

The ISS would quickly overheat if they did not employ an array of infrared emitting thermal exchangers with the assistance of pressurized refrigerants.

[Kasuha]

The map is enveloped in neutronium with zero thermal conductivity. Whatever is behind it is irrelevant, regardless of its thermal properties.

Physical processess increase entropy. In simple terms that means organized forms of energy turn to heat. The battle with heat death in ONI is natural, even though in ONI it employs unphysical tools (Worts and peculiar thermal effects of machines).

It would be possible to turn the game more realistic by allowing duplicants access to the surface and building heat radiators to get rid of excess heat instead. It would require the game to implement radiative heat transfer and it's not clear if it would really make the game more fun.

[Reaniel]

Another thing is that ONI is only simulating conduction in terms of heat transfer, not convection or radiation.  So even without that magical neutronium, we won't be getting cold because of vaccum's zero thermal conductivity and ONIverse's lack of thermal radiation.

[0xygen]

Inside must be ZERO kelvin already if asteroid affect outside space, this asteroid isnt new born baby, and stayeds still for billion years. 

[Darkarma]

1 hour ago, 0xygen said:

Inside must be ZERO kelvin already if asteroid affect outside space, this asteroid isnt new born baby, and stayeds still for billion years. 

Uh, the core of our planet is billions of years old and its still extremely hot. Technically speaking for the asteroid to maintain a shell of neutronium, it has to have a lot more mass than our planet. How? Who knows, but neutronium is that stuff that is always 1 tea spoon is equal to several mountains. Its the stuff Neutron stars are made of.

[NurdRage]

Space is cold in that if you put a warm object in space and waited a long time it would go to the temperature of space (about 3 kelvin in deep space, and about about 378 kelvin around the earth because the sun warms things up).

 

But space also has ZERO thermal conductivity. So if you put an object that generates its own heat, you have to consider whether it can radiate that heat away faster than it can generate it. 

Low power machinery like satellites is not that hard. But high powered devices like space craft it actually becomes a challenge.

Remember the old NASA space shuttles? Remember how they always flew with the payload doors open? They HAD to fly that way once they got to space because the radiator system was inside the payload doors. If they kept the doors the closed the space shuttle would have overheated, being unable to radiate away its heat. 

The ISS has specific radiator systems to cool the station for sane function.

On earth, a thermos works so well because it replicates space to some extent:  it uses a double walled vacuumed chamber to insulate the food from the outside world. You can find thermoses made of steel, a highly thermally conductive substance, but the thermos still works so well because of the vacuum. Doesn't matter how conductive your material is if it can't get past the vacuum. 

Space being cold comes second to space being a great insulator. 

 

[Coolthulhu]

8 hours ago, Darkarma said:

neutronium is that stuff that is always 1 tea spoon is equal to several mountains. Its the stuff Neutron stars are made of.

The in-game "neutronium" doesn't even pretend to be that. It's just a fancy name for magical indestructible "stuff" that exists because it's a game and not a precise simulation and said game needs something on the borders of it because it has limited space that doesn't wrap around. Real life neutronium would not just sit there and be indestructible - it would immediately and violently explode at any pressure below those in cores of stars.

15 hours ago, Executive_Lurker said:

yeah screw people who would like to believe their on an asteroid and not some illogical fireball surrounded by magic hard stuff

No, screw people who try to apply real life physics only halfway, then whine when discrepancies in their approach are pointed out.

Also screw people who, when told that their opinion isn't a hard fact but just an opinion, pretend it's the others forcing their opinions.

[Executive_Lurker]

@Coolthulhu how is anything that you said pointing out discrepencies? genuine question sorry.

I was just thinking hey world gen stuff. I mean what do you really think of it and not just shooting it down to sound smart?

would you play a mode like this?

The dudes idea is really cool and I knew it would be slightly devisive and there would be a lot of "engineers" replying forgetting it's a game so that's why I worded it to suggest a game mode or special map thay would be.. oh i dont know... fun? 

I feel like some people on here just want to sound smart so they refute things that are otherwise really cool ideas. I mean you're using science to refute me and then you say it's just a game that doesn't need real science. that is really confusing and makes it seem like you just wanna start something.

I sincerely apologize if that was not your intention.

(just for the sake of whatever, does anyone know the average internal temp of asteroids)

[Coolthulhu]

14 hours ago, Executive_Lurker said:

@Coolthulhu how is anything that you said pointing out discrepencies?

You're defending the idea that the asteroid should freeze and that asteroid not freezing is an error and not just a different vision. Not a game mode or anything, the whole idea in OP is that it is objectively wrong for the asteroid to be heating up instead of freezing solid.

I point out discrepancies that geysers exist and the ecosystem looks roughly stable, neither of which would be possible if the asteroid was rapidly freezing.

I have nothing against the idea that the outer edge of asteroid should lose heat due to thermal radiation or a mapgen setting with no abyssalite and neutronium, where the outer edge of the map keeps losing temperature to void. Just about the idea that an asteroid with stable ecosystem, lifeforms adapted to stable ecosystem, geysers full of boiling water, and a sea of magma, could somehow come to existence through constant rapid freezing.

[RemyG]

Also if you chain wheezeworts in a staircase pattern 16 of them in a diagonal row is enough to freeze geyser water as it is emitted if you use hydrogen.