There's serious amount of heat transfer between abyssalite tiles and wires/pipes embedded in them

[Kasuha]

This came up as a big surprise to me, I built a hot abyssalite tile and then built a cold piece of wolframite pipe in it, and noticed the pipe is quickly adjusting its temperature towards the temperature of the pipe. The tile was losing heat too - since abyssalite has about 40 times greater heat capacity than wolframite, the change wasn't that big but could be noticed.

The same happens with other materials, with wires, and with gas pipes. 

I assume it's because the "distance" between the tile and the pipe is very small, so the low thermal conductivity coefficient of abyssalite doesn't play such a big role.

For me that means, no more non-abyssalite pipes in abyssalite tiles. They're not as insulated as one might expect.

[Masterpintsman]

6 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

For me that means, no more non-abyssalite pipes in abyssalite tiles. They're not as insulated as one might expect.

Do you have a better plan?

[marcjhune22]

@Kasuha what if we pump cold liquid contents through that pipe? will the temperature of the abyssalite tiles go down? and what if you compare insulated abyssalite tiles with regular abyssalite tiles. 
I would like to do the experimentation myself but i can't seem to make debug mode work on my laptop. specifically the cell painter

[Kasuha]

2 minutes ago, marcjhune22 said:

I would like to do the experimentation myself but i can't seem to make debug mode work on my laptop. specifically the cell painter

Enable displaying of file extensions in your file explorer, that's the most common cause of the problem.

[marcjhune22]

4 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

Enable displaying of file extensions in your file explorer, that's the most common cause of the problem.

i have enabled the debug mode. but i can't seem to enter the temperature of the material and the amount of material in the cell painter

[rezecib]

For most purposes this shouldn't matter, because the abyssalite tile can't transfer its heat to anything else easily.

@marcjhune22 I had to use the numpad to type numbers into those boxes, since it doesn't disable the number key shortcuts.

[Kasuha]

37 minutes ago, rezecib said:

For most purposes this shouldn't matter, because the abyssalite tile can't transfer its heat to anything else easily.

The point is, if you e.g. put a granite pipe of your cooling circuit in such tile, you get to cool that tile as well. And it's got quite a lot of heat content, not only the abyssalite has high specific heat capacity but according to my calculations the "thermal mass" of the tile appears to match its reported mass. 

Getting this one tile to its -118 C from its initial 15 C was 106 MJ (106,400,000 J):

[Masterpintsman]

@Kasuha did you try that with a bridge too?

[Kasuha]

33 minutes ago, Masterpintsman said:

@Kasuha did you try that with a bridge too?

Not really. I was testing heat transfer through abyssalite wall with wire bridge and was getting strange results but that was before I noticed the heat transfer. I assume it shares temperature too since there's no reason why it shoudln't. 

[rezecib]

@Kasuha This works with all tiles, right? In that case, building on your other post about heat transfer through walls working better than heat transfer from pipes, the best way to do heat transfer with pipes would be to run the pipes through walls, cooling/heating them, which in turn cool/heat the target material, right? Rather than these pipe-radiator designs.

[Trego]

50 minutes ago, rezecib said:

@Kasuha This works with all tiles, right? In that case, building on your other post about heat transfer through walls working better than heat transfer from pipes, the best way to do heat transfer with pipes would be to run the pipes through walls, cooling/heating them, which in turn cool/heat the target material, right? Rather than these pipe-radiator designs.

Mmm, time to test heat transfer between insulated/abyssalite pipes and normal tiles

[The Flying Fox]

Interesting

 

This explains something that I noticed just today myself.  Just the other day I shut off my P-O2 to O2 unit because I was running out of easy sources of P-O2 to put a gas pump and feed the machine.  So, I capped the primary cooling room with an abyssalite tile and shut off the regulators.  I realized that the hydrogen still moving in the pipes would continue to get warmer until it hit equilibrium with the P-O2 still inside the cooling unit.  I noted that it did this at some point and continued having my Dupes work on other tasks.  But then, I checked again today and now the temperature of the hydrogen in the pipes has risen to -92C!  

 

Thinking I was going crazy, I checked and triple checked all the tiles that encapsulate the unit and they're all made of abyssalite.  (Insulated ones, just.. because!)  There was literally no way I could see how the hydrogen in the pipes could be warming up this much.  Yet, I do have some of the granite pipes that make up the radiator going under some of these abyssalite tiles.

 

In the middle of writing this post, I looked at my unit again.  It.. appears that insulated abyssalite tiles may not be effected, but normal abyssalite tiles are -definitely- affected.

 

 

Those two tiles inside the unit are abyssalite and all the insulated tiles are also abyssalite, yet for me, the insulated tiles haven't appeared to have changed temperature.  But these normal tiles certainly have (The have granite pipes under them), but all the stair steps also have granite pipes under them.  Huh...

[Kasuha]

6 hours ago, rezecib said:

@Kasuha This works with all tiles, right? In that case, building on your other post about heat transfer through walls working better than heat transfer from pipes, the best way to do heat transfer with pipes would be to run the pipes through walls, cooling/heating them, which in turn cool/heat the target material, right? Rather than these pipe-radiator designs.

I don't think so. The thermal transfer between pipe and its contents is still as painfully slow as with pipe in the open. The point here is that abyssalite does not have negligible thermal transfer in this context. But I may try to make some tests.

Heat transfer between adjacent walls or gas tiles... that's another chapter. I made a few experiments with it and I got very surprising results again, some apparently intended, some probably not.

[heckubis]

just for Shlitz and Giggles for your testing of thermal transfer from the pipes to the tiles for effecting heat transfer to gasses. Considering your other tests try using gas permeable tiles to increase the thermal mass instead of open space along the pipes. tiles only allow your gasses (non-piped) to touch it on the available sides usually only 1-3. Gas permeable and mesh tiles allow the materials to actually pass into the thermal mass not just next to it. this should increase the "surface area" for thermal transfer

[Kasuha]

46 minutes ago, heckubis said:

just for Shlitz and Giggles for your testing of thermal transfer from the pipes to the tiles for effecting heat transfer to gasses. Considering your other tests try using gas permeable tiles to increase the thermal mass instead of open space along the pipes. tiles only allow your gasses (non-piped) to touch it on the available sides usually only 1-3. Gas permeable and mesh tiles allow the materials to actually pass into the thermal mass not just next to it. this should increase the "surface area" for thermal transfer

Sadly no, there's no thermal transfer between gas permeable / mesh tile and pipe embedded in it. I assume it's because the transfer is only with the "environment" that in case of a wall tile is material of the tile, but in case of permeable/mesh tile it's the gas/liquid filling it.