Log out with your Beefalo. Pleas read and do this!!

[Clwnbaby]

Okay this seriously needs to be not only considered but done.  I am getting tired of domesticating a beefalo EVERY DAY I return to long lasting servers.  If a player is riding their beefalo when they log out the beefalo SHOULD go with them.  Its a "late game" feature that is a pretty substantial time and resource drain and it is getting SUPER annoying that ever day I spend domesticating them is wasted as soon as I log out for the day because by the next time I come on its either reverted back to wild or has been killed.  For the investment required to domesticate their isn't a great return atm when every time I leave I may as well start over. 

Please Klei!!! fix this.  Perdy pls!

[Ecu]

24 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

Okay this seriously needs to be not only considered but done.  I am getting tired of domesticating a beefalo EVERY DAY I return to long lasting servers.  If a player is riding their beefalo when they log out the beefalo SHOULD go with them.  Its a "late game" feature that is a pretty substantial time and resource drain and it is getting SUPER annoying that ever day I spend domesticating them is wasted as soon as I log out for the day because by the next time I come on its either reverted back to wild or has been killed.  For the investment required to domesticate their isn't a great return atm when every time I leave I may as well start over. 

Please Klei!!! fix this.  Perdy pls!

This has been posted already here.  I feel it is a poor idea to have Beefalo log out with the player as when playing PvE, it is a cooperative experience to survive and therefore the Beefalo belong to the group not the individual.  In PvP, stealing a Beefalo is a legitimate tactic and as such they should not be protected there either.

[HamBatter]

46 minutes ago, Ecu said:

In PvP, stealing a Beefalo is a legitimate tactic

Isn't it more of a deterrent, like the 100% obedience loss on attack or shave?

[Electroely]

@Ecu, please don't mention PvP. It's way too broken in many ways to be considered for any rebalances. But about the beefalo domestication thing, I really don't think public servers are meant to last long enough for you to log out and back into the same world. That's probably a thing left for private servers. And being able to log out with the beefalo you're riding means someone might as well hop onto your beefalo and get out of the server never to return again. And if you're going to add 'beefalo ownership', keep in mind that beefalo taming was added to DST (and not DS) as something a whole team is meant to benifit from. For most casual players (like me, I guess) you need someone to be providing food while you ride your beefalo 24/7 to tame it in 20 days. And even after domestication occurs, other team members could always benifit from the beefalo when going on long trips or when running to catch an emergency event (such as a walrus on the last day of winter). While I know all I said may not apply to the more "experienced" players, keep in mind that the game is also meant to be fairly easy, allowing most people to enjoy it more in a better fashion.

[Ecu]

3 hours ago, Electroely said:

@Ecu, please don't mention PvP. It's way too broken in many ways to be considered for any rebalances.

I never stated that it was balanced, just that specifically regarding Beefalo taming and PvP, it is a legitimate tactic to attack and/or steal another's Beefalo to weaken that player.

3 hours ago, Electroely said:

But about the beefalo domestication thing, I really don't think public servers are meant to last long enough for you to log out and back into the same world. That's probably a thing left for private servers. And being able to log out with the beefalo you're riding means someone might as well hop onto your beefalo and get out of the server never to return again. And if you're going to add 'beefalo ownership', keep in mind that beefalo taming was added to DST (and not DS) as something a whole team is meant to benifit from. For most casual players (like me, I guess) you need someone to be providing food while you ride your beefalo 24/7 to tame it in 20 days. And even after domestication occurs, other team members could always benifit from the beefalo when going on long trips or when running to catch an emergency event (such as a walrus on the last day of winter). While I know all I said may not apply to the more "experienced" players, keep in mind that the game is also meant to be fairly easy, allowing most people to enjoy it more in a better fashion.

Yeah, regarding public servers and given the average world lifespan of said servers, domestication is either unintended or poorly designed.  It just ends up being a poor decision to spend the time and resources required to tame a Beefalo on said servers for the most part.

Regarding private servers, I completely agree.  Beefalo require a reasonable resource sink (including time), which in turn takes said resources from the group of players, not just an individual.  As such, no single individual should have absolute control over said Beefalo in such server.

All in all, linking Beefalo to an individual player would be a poor design choice.

[Clwnbaby]

you all seem confused on what im saying.  Im not saying bind it to player im saying if you riding it when you log off it goes with you.  This also should apply to the telelocator staff as well.  Forgot to mention that.  Now yes, people can grief and take off with your beefalo but still given the time and resources needed to sink into a beefalo its very frustrating to log off and log on and its dead or undomesticated. 

Also you all make the argument "given the short lifespan of servers," yeah I play on Strictly Unprofessional Public and that server on the regular goes 800+ days easy.  Also like to reiterate the key word there PUBLIC.  Its a public server that has a very long lifespan.  Also the burden of others taking care of your beef when you away is a lot to ask for.  Yes tamed beefalo should benefit all of the group and everyone should use but most players do not see the benefit to beefalo taming and this is why beefalo are either killed off by griefers or become undomesticated

 

[Ecu]

19 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

you all seem confused on what im saying.  Im not saying bind it to player im saying if you riding it when you log off it goes with you.  This also should apply to the telelocator staff as well.  Forgot to mention that.  Now yes, people can grief and take off with your beefalo but still given the time and resources needed to sink into a beefalo its very frustrating to log off and log on and its dead or undomesticated. 

I am not confused by what you're saying, I'm saying that I disagree with it.  Domesticating Beefalo takes world resources which take away from resources that could be used for the group.  As such, in PvE the Beefalo should remain so that others contributing to the world's survival can utilize it.  It doesn't belong only to an individual player.

21 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

Also you all make the argument "given the short lifespan of servers," yeah I play on Strictly Unprofessional Public and that server on the regular goes 800+ days easy.  Also like to reiterate the key word there PUBLIC.  Its a public server that has a very long lifespan.

I question if Strictly Unprofessional is an actual true survival server or if it has world restart turned off.  Even if it is, and uses the default server hosting for survival servers, it surviving that long is a rarity.  The average is still as I commented.  As such, it isn't unreasonable to consider said averages when suggesting the game's design.

27 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

Also the burden of others taking care of your beef when you away is a lot to ask for.  Yes tamed beefalo should benefit all of the group and everyone should use but most players do not see the benefit to beefalo taming and this is why beefalo are either killed off by griefers or become undomesticated

Part of this issue is that there are bugs with the tools that keep Beefalo domesticated and another part is that Beefalo aren't worth it in the average play through.  When the average server does not last over 150 days generally, taking 20 days to tame a Beefalo doesn't seem all that appealing when compared to just alternatives.  The usefulness of said Beefalo in such a period of time is also more minimal as you generally have not built up the super massive stockpile of resources that you will have in a longer running game.  It just ends up not worth it.

------

I personally feel the game should be designed around said average.  Essentially balance a majority of the game around the first year of a world's lifespan.  This would be a reasonable single session to play, and would allow for content and the experience to be streamlined so that it is represented by the official servers better.

Mind you, this doesn't help your issue.  However, I just feel that the intent of the game was essentially to sit down play a round of Don't Starve until ya die.  However, due to the nature of public games, you just will generally not last the amount of days that you would in a private game before world restart.   This is the nature of this kind of multiplayer design and rather than focusing a sizable amount of development effort to work all the kinks out of long term multiplayer, I think they would offer a much better experience focusing on the average lifespan of public worlds.

[Clwnbaby]

Yeah you seem like a DST only player as you are looking for the quick fix, play the first 20 days over and over type player.  Once you learn the game and see how much more it has to offer in the long run maybe you will change, but for veterans such as myself and many others a 100 day game would RUIN the game entirely.  I mean seriously 100 days?  You're barely getting the max hound wave by then.  The idea of the game, especially with public servers, is long lasting survival.  Servers SHOULD be more like Strictly where people are coming and going all day and the world progressively becomes harder, more evolved, and more FUN. 

And no reset is not disabled on Strictly, there is just a big player base now with enough turn over that there always people invested in the world and who want to keep playing, you know how Don't Starve is supposed to be played.  The long and short of it is this, DST has A LOT of new players still learning how to play and because of that the numbers are falsely skewed in the wrong direction.  Its the not the player base's desire to play 20 days over and over, its just thats all they can handle atm.  Just because you (not you but a player) cant get to the end of the game doesn't mean you cut out the end of the game.  

Im sorry to say but by reading all your responses to all my threads it seems you're judging the game by the majority of the newer players and not by ACTUALLY learning and becoming experienced in the game.  Its that same mind set that nerfs any challenge Klei comes up with.  Just cause you cant beat or solo it right away doesn't make it impossible or necessary to nerf into the ground.  Play the game, learn it, love it, hate it and then truly fall in love with it.  THEN come tell me how the game should be played

 

[Ecu]

27 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

Yeah you seem like a DST only player as you are looking for the quick fix, play the first 20 days over and over type player.  Once you learn the game and see how much more it has to offer in the long run maybe you will change, but for veterans such as myself and many others a 100 day game would RUIN the game entirely.  I mean seriously 100 days?  You're barely getting the max hound wave by then.  The idea of the game, especially with public servers, is long lasting survival.  Servers SHOULD be more like Strictly where people are coming and going all day and the world progressively becomes harder, more evolved, and more FUN.

Actually, I have over 200 hours logged in both games, as well as additional time spent researching the development end of the game and watching videos of gameplay.  I am quite experienced in both the original DS and DST, both as a player and reasonably as a developer.

Regardless of how you feel about a 100 day run, it is the average general experience of the official servers.  Given the official servers are what showcase the game to others in an official capacity, the game should indeed be designed to showcase itself during this period of time.  That isn't to say that you cannot have mechanics that mix things up to keep longer running servers interesting, but the majority of the experience should play out during this time frame.

31 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

And no reset is not disabled on Strictly, there is just a big player base now with enough turn over that there always people invested in the world and who want to keep playing, you know how Don't Starve is supposed to be played.  The long and short of it is this, DST has A LOT of new players still learning how to play and because of that the numbers are falsely skewed in the wrong direction.  Its the not the player base's desire to play 20 days over and over, its just thats all they can handle atm.  Just because you (not you but a player) cant get to the end of the game doesn't mean you cut out the end of the game.  

To be completely honest, you can acquire nearly everything (individually) before by day 100.  So assuming that I haven't experienced the game because I am in support of the style of gameplay offered by the official servers is just incorrect.

Regarding the SU server, that is indeed impressive that it can maintain having someone on 24/7 to avoid someone restarting the server.  Are you absolutely certain none of the characters are bots that keep it from restarting?  Just curious as it is very unexpected to have a server manage to survive for that period of time in survival mode.

Even if it does though, that only shows the flaw of allowing for long running games in DST in general.  The original DS worked for long running experiences because you could save, quit, and pick it back up later.  This works similarly for private DST games with friends.  However, public servers suffer when played out long term for many factors.  Griefers can be a problem, new players not coordinating with others, etc.

You stated yourself that Klei switched their servers over to survival (and essentially became short running servers) because of the very issues you're seeing in your long term experience.  This tells me that rather than focusing on more long term features, it would be better to hone the mechanics around a reasonable play time, so that it is more enjoyable to play the 100 days and restart.

42 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

Im sorry to say but by reading all your responses to all my threads it seems you're judging the game by the majority of the newer players and not by ACTUALLY learning and becoming experienced in the game.  Its that same mind set that nerfs any challenge Klei comes up with.  Just cause you cant beat or solo it right away doesn't make it impossible or necessary to nerf into the ground.  Play the game, learn it, love it, hate it and then truly fall in love with it.  THEN come tell me how the game should be played

I feel like you're judging me without actually understanding me at all.  I don't want the game to be easier.  I want to improve the standard experience by making the officially supported experience a better representation of the experience they want to present.  Personally, I feel the game is way too easy overall.  In my mind, I would rebalance a lot of the content around the first 100-200 days and focus on really giving a good gameplay experience during this duration.  I would add additional content (such as biomes) that varies between world generations, so that each time you play you take things from different directions.

Now, even though I feel this is how the game should be designed and focused upon, I don't feel you shouldn't be allowed to play a more long term experience.  I just feel that said experience should be balanced by mods, rather than the developers themselves.  It is your choice to play such an experience and as such your responsibility to balance said experience for yourself.  That's all.

[GLERMZ]

1 hour ago, Ecu said:

I am not confused by what you're saying, I'm saying that I disagree with it.  Domesticating Beefalo takes world resources which take away from resources that could be used for the group.  As such, in PvE the Beefalo should remain so that others contributing to the world's survival can utilize it.  It doesn't belong only to an individual player.

Do you know how PvE Games Work ? Because what you stating is more like a "Communist" PvE World. Just because Resources affect all, doesnt mean everything is bound to everyone. Otherwise, starting dropping all your stuff every game before you log out. They don't belong to you.

[Ecu]

Just now, Glhrmzz said:

Do you know how PvE Games Work ? Because what you stating is more like a "Communist" PvE World. Just because Resources affect all, doesnt mean everything is bound to everyone. Otherwise, starting dropping all your stuff every game before you log out. They don't belong to you.

There is a difference between Beefalo and your standard inventory items.  So while I agree that PvE isn't communist like you state, I still feel it harms the experience to allow an individual to phase out with their tamed Beefalo.

[GLERMZ]

"You did that farm ? well those rocks were from everyone
You did that dragonpie? Well that seed you used was from everyone
You kill McTusk and shaved beefalo for the brush ? Well those are also everyones
You lost 20 days Ingame taming that beefalo after all the rocks, seeds, gears you used to kill tusk and to shave beefalo? Well Beefalo is for everyone, even if we not going to take care of him while you are off."

Sorry, but you leaving an illusion

[Ecu]

2 minutes ago, Glhrmzz said:

"You did that farm ? well those rocks were from everyone
You did that dragonpie? Well that seed you used was from everyone
You kill McTusk and shaved beefalo for the brush ? Well those are also everyones
You lost 20 days Ingame taming that beefalo after all the rocks, seeds, gears you used to kill tusk and to shave beefalo? Well Beefalo is for everyone, even if we not going to take care of him while you are off."

Sorry, but you leaving an illusion

Living in an illusion?  Not really.

I feel like people should be allowed to play off on their own during PvE, if they so choose.  However, their base doesn't log off with them...so why should Beefalo?  If you create a structure in the game, it is available for everyone to use until it is destroyed.  Taming Beefalo takes more work to achieve and maintain than nearly every structure in the game.  It is not unreasonable to suggest that it remains available for everyone to use.

In addition to this, a majority of the structures can be acquired via renewable resources that can never be completely depleted.  Beefalo, on the other hand, can be hunted to extinction and if everyone was allowed to tame their own Beefalo to take with them when they log off, it would be very easy for the few herds that spawn to be depleted, leaving no Beefalo to breed or keep for resources.

So I remain steadfast in my belief that this suggestion would be a poor design decision, given the current game.

[GLERMZ]

You often complain in the forums people going in different directions in discussions and now you comparing the work of putting up a structure in a world that is always going to be there unless someone burns its, destroys it, to a Beefalo that takes a person 15-20days of dedication to tame, that can be easily forgotten about the others?
 

9 minutes ago, Ecu said:

In addition to this, a majority of the structures can be acquired via renewable resources that can never be completely depleted.  Beefalo, on the other hand, can be hunted to extinction and if everyone was allowed to tame their own Beefalo to take with them when they log off, it would be very easy for the few herds that spawn to be depleted, leaving no Beefalo to breed or keep for resources..

I'm sorry dude, but clearly you haven't spend enough time playing this game or watching others playing long or extra long runs. By the time you can actually have time and resources to tame the beefalo, they've already starting to reproduce in retard amounts. You should check what the big problems of long runs are when servers start having problems with crashes. Clearly you just too sick to your idea of 120 days worlds. And on those you will not have more than 2 tamed beefalos for sure. Hope this doesn't offend you, but this is laughable

 

[Tosh]

I'd accept @Clwnbaby's authority on this as I've seen some of his more recent streams. The Strictly Unprofessional server lasts so long because clwnbaby and other players cooperate and take long shifts to make sure the server is sustained for days at a time. If this level of cooperation is taking place on a regular basis, but the beefalo aren't staying tame, I'd argue that this is an issue with the beefalo taming system and not a failing on the part of the players to cooperate. I think there would need to be additional though put in to stop players from stealing other people's beefalo and logging off, but otherwise I'm completely in favour of Clwnbaby's suggestion.

[Ecu]

Just now, Tosh said:

I'd accept @Clwnbaby's authority on this as I've seen some of his more recent streams. The Strictly Unprofessional server lasts so long because clwnbaby and other players cooperate and take long shifts to make sure the server is sustained for days at a time. If this level of cooperation is taking place on a regular basis, but the beefalo aren't staying tame, I'd argue that this is an issue with the beefalo taming system and not a failing on the part of the players to cooperate. I think there would need to be additional though put in to stop players from stealing other people's beefalo and logging off, but otherwise I'm completely in favour of Clwnbaby's suggestion.

I fully admit there are issues with the beefalo domestication system.  Hell, from what I understand, there are tons of conditions that cause salt licks to not accurately keep beefalo domesticated all together.  However, the solution is not to make beefalo log out with the player, it is to fix the problems with the domestication system so that it can be correctly used to preserve beefalo.

Regarding the issue of griefing, rather than making the game balance submit to griefers, why not just create additional tools to help administrators better assess griefers.  Logging for when people take and/or kill domesticated beefalo, for one, could go a long way towards helping administrators better run their servers.

So, I can agree fully that the system needs work...I just disagree that this suggestion is the right solution.

[Clwnbaby]

6 hours ago, Ecu said:

Actually, I have over 200 hours logged in both games,

CASE AND POINT!  I knew you've barely played this game.   PHEEEEEEEEW now I don't ever have to respond to you anymore. 

[HamBatter]

8 hours ago, Ecu said:

So, I can agree fully that the system needs work...I just disagree that this suggestion is the right solution.

What would be the right solution then? The only two points brought up against it, communal use and extinction, aren't problems at all.

Communal use: Players can only log out with the one they are riding on, therefore the rest of the domesticated Beefalo are available for other players' use.

Extinction: Anything that relies on a destructible entity to respawn can be driven to extinction without regard to domestication. If you do happen to have the last of a domestic animal, it can be undomesticated to repopulate.

This is a reasonable suggestion that doesn't become absurd just because you disagree with it. Ignoring other factors, "average server stats" would more likely support an at least halved domestication time to make the feature more appealing to 'pick up and go'. Heck, "average server stats" seem to suggest that the game should be easy mode and difficulty modded in.

[Ecu]

7 hours ago, Clwnbaby said:

CASE AND POINT!  I knew you've barely played this game.   PHEEEEEEEEW now I don't ever have to respond to you anymore. 

Just because I haven't played the game as much as you have, does not mean somehow my point is invalid.  My experience with the game is going the be the more likely experience for a majority of individuals playing the game (which is proven by the data I've presented).  I'm sorry but comments like this make it seem like you have no legitimate rebuttal to my stance and only serve to show yourself in a negative light.

4 hours ago, HamBatter said:

Communal use: Players can only log out with the one they are riding on, therefore the rest of the domesticated Beefalo are available for other players' use.

Extinction: Anything that relies on a destructible entity to respawn can be driven to extinction without regard to domestication. If you do happen to have the last of a domestic animal, it can be undomesticated to repopulate.

This only works if only a few people use beefalo.  If everyone is wanting to tame a Beefalo during the endgame, it will be quite normal to wish to protect it by hopping on it before they leave.  In massively played servers like those mentioned, the number of overall players that cycle through the server outweigh the number of beefalo in said world.  This leads to both extinction and lack of communally available beefalo.

4 hours ago, HamBatter said:

This is a reasonable suggestion that doesn't become absurd just because you disagree with it. Ignoring other factors, "average server stats" would more likely support an at least halved domestication time to make the feature more appealing to 'pick up and go'. Heck, "average server stats" seem to suggest that the game should be easy mode and difficulty modded in.

The average server world statistics don't lend themselves to your conclusions at all, comments make no sense.

This is a poor suggestion due to the way the game is currently designed.  There are multiple methods in which this could be fixed, however, each comes with it's own caveat.  The best way that I can see to fix this would be to fix the bugs that cause the current systems in place to protect domestication (Salt Licks).  This will solve part of the issue.

The other major issue (griefing), should be solved by advanced tools for administrators to leverage to keep said people off their servers.  I've discussed here on the forums before about adding a naughtiness system where griefing actions are tracked and affect the user's naughtiness rating, which administrators can utilize to restrict who has access to their server.

I feel these are better solutions.

[HamBatter]

4 hours ago, Ecu said:

Just because I haven't played the game as much as you have, does not mean somehow my point is invalid.  My experience with the game is going the be the more likely experience for a majority of individuals playing the game (which is proven by the data I've presented).

One who has played the game longer has more likely observed many average players in action. There is a difference in what one says one wants and what one does.

4 hours ago, Ecu said:

In massively played servers like those mentioned, the number of overall players that cycle through the server outweigh the number of beefalo in said world.  This leads to both extinction and lack of communally available beefalo.

The main players in a server aren't going to watch this worst case scenario happen. They can stop domesticating and pen some herds up in a few corners to repopulate. As the majority of servers have cooperative intention, players are aware that they are supposed to share when resources are scarce. Considering the time it takes to domesticate and the few players whose sole intention on joining would be to find a Beefalo to mount and log out with, it would be more likely due to turnover that all the Beefalo are killed to extinction rather than ridden off (to come back again later).

4 hours ago, Ecu said:

This is a poor suggestion due to the way the game is currently designed.  There are multiple methods in which this could be fixed, however, each comes with it's own caveat.  The best way that I can see to fix this would be to fix the bugs that cause the current systems in place to protect domestication (Salt Licks).  This will solve part of the issue.

I think this is an excellent suggestion - many players can be happy with minimal development, no fuss. The salt licks issue is supposedly fixed (http://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/dont-starve-together/beefalo-can-lose-domestication-near-a-salt-lick-r2071/) but even that part of the original system is poorly designed, as it punishes players for taking extended leaves from the game. If you are the average majority player as you say you are, are you domesticating and using Beefalo now, or just stealing them from other players because it's what the game currently allows you to do (legitimate)?

4 hours ago, Ecu said:

The average server world statistics don't lend themselves to your conclusions at all, comments make no sense.

Clwnbaby has mentioned that low day count is skewed toward inexperience. Higher day counts require more maintenance. In the time that one group of users can get to day 100, so many more could create new servers.

Please create a new feedback topic compiling your views on developer intention, best direction, roguelike sandbox, etc. It would be easier to respond to those points without having them fragmented and blended in with all these other topics.

[Ecu]

20 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

One who has played the game longer has more likely observed many average players in action. There is a difference in what one says one wants and what one does.

Understanding human behavior can lend itself well to understanding patterns of play.  It is actually one of the reasons I generally state psychology is a great field to at least dabble in, when learning game design.  In addition to this, if someone invest large amounts of time primarily in long term server gameplay, they won't generally be as experienced in the actions of players in short term gameplay servers.

Since the average play is short term server gameplay (and I primarily play such), I feel rather confident that I understand reasonable well how such players generally act.

23 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

The main players in a server aren't going to watch this worst case scenario happen. They can stop domesticating and pen some herds up in a few corners to repopulate. As the majority of servers have cooperative intention, players are aware that they are supposed to share when resources are scarce. Considering the time it takes to domesticate and the few players whose sole intention on joining would be to find a Beefalo to mount and log out with, it would be more likely due to turnover that all the Beefalo are killed to extinction rather than ridden off (to come back again later).

Yet, @Clwnbaby also suggested changing the grass gecko mechanic because people did not work well enough together to avoid the server losing the majority (or all) of its grass spawning.  Granted, I don't have the experience they do with regards to long term gameplay, but their own discussions showcase how this could be a legitimate issue.

26 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

I think this is an excellent suggestion - many players can be happy with minimal development, no fuss. The salt licks issue is supposedly fixed (http://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/dont-starve-together/beefalo-can-lose-domestication-near-a-salt-lick-r2071/) but even that part of the original system is poorly designed, as it punishes players for taking extended leaves from the game. If you are the average majority player as you say you are, are you domesticating and using Beefalo now, or just stealing them from other players because it's what the game currently allows you to do (legitimate)?

I don't tame them nor do I steal them, they just aren't used at all.  I've only looked into the taming system as a novelty as the benefits it offers for the time sink involved is not advantageous enough during an average play experience.  This is my experience in official servers in general, the beefalo system is just not used at all.  At most, people might heard a few to a pen to better farm dung, but that's about it.

28 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

Clwnbaby has mentioned that low day count is skewed toward inexperience. Higher day counts require more maintenance. In the time that one group of users can get to day 100, so many more could create new servers.

 While it is true that those that are new generally play on the official servers and as such end up playing with a low day count per play, I don't think either of us have enough data to show the overall inexperience of people who play on said servers.  During my playthroughs, generally at least half or more of the people in each are reasonably experienced.  It is quite common to have a one or two go straight into caving to get high end resources, or build large starting bases.  So honestly, I question this statement as well.

32 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

Please create a new feedback topic compiling your views on developer intention, best direction, roguelike sandbox, etc. It would be easier to respond to those points without having them fragmented and blended in with all these other topics.

@Tosh went and posted such a discussion and I've already commented and look forward to seeing what comes out of it.  I do want to say though that such data as I've presented here is where I derived my viewpoint regarding the design from, which is why I reference it when challenged as to why I feel one way or another.  Perhaps the separate thread though will help as I can just link to it instead when challenged, and that portion of the discussion can move there.

[HamBatter]

1 hour ago, Ecu said:

Yet, Clwnbaby also suggested changing the grass gecko mechanic because people did not work well enough together to avoid the server losing the majority (or all) of its grass spawning.  Granted, I don't have the experience they do with regards to long term gameplay, but their own discussions showcase how this could be a legitimate issue.

That topic is about Grass Gekkos being killed, not domesticated and attached to the player on log out. Beefalo replenish while Grass Tufts and Gekkos do not. Are you suggesting they should have regrowth?

[Ecu]

Just now, HamBatter said:

That topic is about Grass Gekkos being killed, not domesticated and attached to the player on log out. Beefalo replenish while Grass Tufts and Gekkos do not. Are you suggesting they should have regrowth?

The reason I made the comparison is that the only reason grass geckos (and grass tufts) become an issue is an overall failure to cooperate towards the greater survival of everyone.  If everyone that joined a server cooperated, they wouldn't be wiping out these resources and you wouldn't end up in a situation where said resources are gone anytime soon.

This shows that even if the intentions of the regulars are to work together, because it is a public server it would be reasonably easy for a few people to periodically tame and log off, leaving the server without breading pairs after a bit of time.  If the cooperation you cited isn't solid enough to protect enough grass to keep grass from going extinct, how can it protect beefalos from doing so, when beefalos are way less plentiful?

[HamBatter]

23 minutes ago, Ecu said:

The reason I made the comparison is that the only reason grass geckos (and grass tufts) become an issue is an overall failure to cooperate towards the greater survival of everyone.  If everyone that joined a server cooperated, they wouldn't be wiping out these resources and you wouldn't end up in a situation where said resources are gone anytime soon.

This shows that even if the intentions of the regulars are to work together, because it is a public server it would be reasonably easy for a few people to periodically tame and log off, leaving the server without breading pairs after a bit of time.  If the cooperation you cited isn't solid enough to protect enough grass to keep grass from going extinct, how can it protect beefalos from doing so, when beefalos are way less plentiful?

Grass Gekkos and Tufts do not replenish. A new player can log in and kill some, be reprimanded, but the damage is permanent other than restarting the server or admin spawning.

Beefalo replenish. You just need one for them to multiply. As mentioned by Glhrmzz already, usually by the time players begin to domesticate Beefalo you will have more than enough for everyone and then some depending on how many herds you started with.

I am not sure why you want to pursue this edge case when the benefits greatly outweigh your unlikely scenario that no regulars will be holding onto Beefalo while everyone else isn't playing anymore. It is beginning to sound like you don't like taming altogether and you don't want others to use it just because you don't.

[Ecu]

1 minute ago, HamBatter said:

Grass Gekkos and Tufts do not replenish. A new player can log in and kill some, be reprimanded, but the damage is permanent other than restarting the server or admin spawning.

Beefalo replenish. You just need one for them to multiply. As mentioned by Glhrmzz already, usually by the time players begin to domesticate Beefalo you will have more than enough for everyone and then some depending on how many herds you started with.

I am not sure why you want to pursue this edge case when the benefits greatly outweigh your unlikely scenario that no regulars will be holding onto Beefalo while everyone else isn't playing anymore. It is beginning to sound like you don't like taming altogether and you don't want others to use it just because you don't.

I don't like the current taming mechanic really, no.  I feel it does not offer a good work for reward design.  However, I could really care less if people want to use it.  I just don't agree with the idea of allowing people to log off with a beefalo and I've given multiple reasons for my position.

I would be open to the idea of a server flag that allows ridden beefalo to log off with the player, if it was disabled by default.  However, that is additional development time spent to offer a flag that a majority of users would not utilize.  So, I feel such a change would be better handled as a mod.