[SW] A more inclusive way to add SW, with lore! YAY!

[Vargling]

Really terrible picture, but helps visualise it:

The X's are cave entrances - The beach ones would look like an enlarged bat cave, but with more of this style:

The triangle thingy is the Volcano.

 

Other neat thingies: The tropics would now have some marbly stuff and a girly touch - xoxo Charlie

Lore! LORE! LOOORREEE! :

Charlie, now being in control of everything Maxwell once was, has found the Shipwrecked world. Feeling that things were getting stale, she combined the two into a Summer wonderland. But... much more dangerous.

 

Okay, that kinda sucked.

 

Other ideas:

Light Shafts in caves become holes on the overworld. Things can be thrown or dropped down it (for example, bombing a cave base from the other world because it's in a light shaft.)

 

 

 

[Vargling]

A tidbit I forgot to add:

In wilderness, you can only spawn on the mainland or islands with a cave entrance. That way, even if the island is threadbare, you have a way out.

[Vargling]

And one more idea that's just came to me:
 

The caves will flood during the new seasons, except one (they will be neither ROG nor SW, because both are bad for this world.)

There will be the ability to raft through the caves to keep dry, or potentially to wear footwear (check my post that's comin' up!)

 

[Arlesienne]

I think you may like to edit your original post to include the new ideas and hide the others to keep the thread nice and tidy. I mentioned I like the idea of tossing stuff into the caves so that you don't have to survive several loading screens. But how do you imagine the archipelago? Would that be simply SW plants and mobs in the normal DST?

[Vargling]

10 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

I think you may like to edit your original post to include the new ideas and hide the others to keep the thread nice and tidy. I mentioned I like the idea of tossing stuff into the caves so that you don't have to survive several loading screens. But how do you imagine the archipelago? Would that be simply SW plants and mobs in the normal DST?

I will do that when I have time, but for your question:

It is simply the DST mainland surrounded by SW Water and islands. The caves would allow you to go between islands with cave entrances, and the 3 entrances on the mainland.

The volcano spawns on the mainland in a new biome, a cross of the Rocky and (rocks and geyser) biome from SW.

Mostly, it is designed for Wilderness play, where you can spawn anywhere on the mainland, or on any island with a cave entrance. (The ones without could potentially be fully bare, which would suck.)

The caves will flood in Monsoon/Spring season, so you'd need a raft or wetness protection to cross. - They would also flood once the cave starts leaking (a carry-on from my other idea, where the cave starts leaking at 100 Wetness.) and dry up after it stops leaking, again at the rate of somebody drying off.

Basically, the caves are a way to travel across the islands, just as much as the sea is.

 

[Arlesienne]

15 hours ago, Vargling said:

I will do that when I have time, but for your question:

It is simply the DST mainland surrounded by SW Water and islands. The caves would allow you to go between islands with cave entrances, and the 3 entrances on the mainland.

The volcano spawns on the mainland in a new biome, a cross of the Rocky and (rocks and geyser) biome from SW.

Mostly, it is designed for Wilderness play, where you can spawn anywhere on the mainland, or on any island with a cave entrance. (The ones without could potentially be fully bare, which would suck.)

The caves will flood in Monsoon/Spring season, so you'd need a raft or wetness protection to cross. - They would also flood once the cave starts leaking (a carry-on from my other idea, where the cave starts leaking at 100 Wetness.) and dry up after it stops leaking, again at the rate of somebody drying off.

Basically, the caves are a way to travel across the islands, just as much as the sea is.

 

Yes, yes, but how does it look like, shard-wise?

[Vargling]

8 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Yes, yes, but how does it look like, shard-wise?

I'm back!

Shards:

Volcano

Overworld (Mainland + SW in one massive world)

Caves (and Ruins, technically.)

[Arlesienne]

7 minutes ago, Vargling said:

I'm back!

Shards:

Volcano

Overworld (Mainland + SW in one massive world)

Caves (and Ruins, technically.)

...then it WOULD be a resource hog. Hmm. That's the issue with archipelago worlds. Unless they're on the same map connected through wormholes a la that Adventure Mode map, they would add yet another shard - or more - and that is a killer for most hosts.

[Vargling]

2 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

...then it WOULD be a resource hog. Hmm. That's the issue with archipelago worlds. Unless they're on the same map connected through wormholes a la that Adventure Mode map, they would add yet another shard - or more - and that is a killer for most hosts.

The only new shard is the Volcano, which could potentially be changed or removed.

[mathem99]

You know, three running servers (Volcano, caves, overworld) will cause HUGE lag and low FPS to weak computers.

[Vargling]

5 minutes ago, mathem99 said:

You know, three running servers (Volcano, caves, overworld) will cause HUGE lag and low FPS to weak computers.

Hence, it would be dedicated only. Clients would only be able to run SW + Volcano or RoG + Caves

[Arlesienne]

Really, people get used to abundance quickly. Remember when the caves were in the beta? Now you get accusations of skimping when you don't run caves. I'd vote for simple flora and fauna additions, the ocean as it is now and small islands connected through wormholes, a bit like the Archipelago in AM of DS or Personal Islands: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=523209309

Rivers and ponds bigger than the current would be enough to make me a very happy camper.

[Vargling]

15 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Really, people get used to abundance quickly. Remember when the caves were in the beta? Now you get accusations of skimping when you don't run caves. I'd vote for simple flora and fauna additions, the ocean as it is now and small islands connected through wormholes, a bit like the Archipelago in AM of DS or Personal Islands: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=523209309

Rivers and ponds bigger than the current would be enough to make me a very happy camper.

Why wormholes and not just sailing?...

[Ecu]

I will say that I don't think adding new worlds really benefits the gameplay much at all in Together.  This seems to be a misconception a lot of people have when I see suggestions for adding Shipwrecked into DST.  Adding worlds in DS is great as it extends gameplay and creates more goals to achieve, but that only works specifically because it is single-player.  As a roguelike game, DST games do not make it past the first year on average (playing the intended survival mode, which is the most commonly played mode).

That said, you could definitely add boats to the game, as well as water resources and content (maybe a few of the bosses).  The key would be as @Arlesienne stated and focus on adding larger ponds, lakes, rivers, etc. into the world generation and essentially turn boats into a tool for fishing, exploring, and traveling.  As for the volcano, I am not sure.  I am not sure the server would be too terribly taxing on modern computers, but I worry that it would essentially be adding content for nothing.

This is already an issue with existing content in the game, a large portion of said content isn't used.  Adding what amounts to an entire expansion to the game seems like a lot of work and development time for what amounts to only a small return in user enjoyment.  Instead, I would suggest integrating ideas from SW into the base world.

Implementing water mechanics and overhauls to how the base game works is something I've actually considered doing myself.  However, I'm not confident on my ability to create nice water tiles that blend in with the style of the game and I'm not sure Klei would appreciate me using DS:SW's art to make it happen.

[Vargling]

On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 10:14 AM, Ecu said:

I will say that I don't think adding new worlds really benefits the gameplay much at all in Together.  This seems to be a misconception a lot of people have when I see suggestions for adding Shipwrecked into DST.  Adding worlds in DS is great as it extends gameplay and creates more goals to achieve, but that only works specifically because it is single-player.  As a roguelike game, DST games do not make it past the first year on average (playing the intended survival mode, which is the most commonly played mode).

That said, you could definitely add boats to the game, as well as water resources and content (maybe a few of the bosses).  The key would be as @Arlesienne stated and focus on adding larger ponds, lakes, rivers, etc. into the world generation and essentially turn boats into a tool for fishing, exploring, and traveling.  As for the volcano, I am not sure.  I am not sure the server would be too terribly taxing on modern computers, but I worry that it would essentially be adding content for nothing.

This is already an issue with existing content in the game, a large portion of said content isn't used.  Adding what amounts to an entire expansion to the game seems like a lot of work and development time for what amounts to only a small return in user enjoyment.  Instead, I would suggest integrating ideas from SW into the base world.

Implementing water mechanics and overhauls to how the base game works is something I've actually considered doing myself.  However, I'm not confident on my ability to create nice water tiles that blend in with the style of the game and I'm not sure Klei would appreciate me using DS:SW's art to make it happen.

To quote Vito on Steam when I asked about modding in SW "They probably wouldn't care." - so go for it :')

[Ecu]

25 minutes ago, Vargling said:

To quote Vito on Steam when I asked about modding in SW "They probably wouldn't care." - so go for it :')

I've been told this by multiple people actually, except for Klei themselves.  Klei doesn't seem to have an official policy (from what I've found) on using DS assets in DST modding, or even using DST assets in DST modding.  As such, when I created the art assets for my WIP blowgun overhaul, I created my own new assets from scratch in Flash.  I would hate to devote a large amount of effort into development of such a mod, using DS assets, only to have it pulled from the workshop in the future when it got too popular or somesuch.

Even though there is no guarantee of that happening, it isn't worth the time investment purely on the chance that it could.  If you can manage to get Klei to officially allow me to use DS/DST assets in a mod, via written permission, I'll probably take a crack at implementing fluid tile mechanics and methods to travel on such.

[Vargling]

Just now, Ecu said:

I've been told this by multiple people actually, except for Klei themselves.  Klei doesn't seem to have an official policy (from what I've found) on using DS assets in DST modding, or even using DST assets in DST modding.  As such, when I created the art assets for my WIP blowgun overhaul, I created my own new assets from scratch in Flash.  I would hate to devote a large amount of effort into development of such a mod, using DS assets, only to have it pulled from the workshop in the future when it got too popular or somesuch.

Even though there is no guarantee of that happening, it isn't worth the time investment purely on the chance that it could.  If you can manage to get Klei to officially allow me to use DS/DST assets in a mod, via written permission, I'll probably take a crack at implementing fluid tile mechanics and methods to travel on such.

Well, Vito is the main dev in Klei, but I suppose he's not an art guy. I assume you'd need either Kevin or Joe's explicit permission, and Kevin is kinda... dead on the forums.

 

@JoeW any chance you can make a thread outlining the mod policy or something?

[Arlesienne]

On 15.11.2016 at 10:35 AM, Vargling said:

Why wormholes and not just sailing?...

Because just changing the location through a wormhole is less resource-expensive than when you have animated water in which animated life thrives and you, the animated guy, are freely moving around.

On 15.11.2016 at 11:14 AM, Ecu said:

I will say that I don't think adding new worlds really benefits the gameplay much at all in Together.  This seems to be a misconception a lot of people have when I see suggestions for adding Shipwrecked into DST.  Adding worlds in DS is great as it extends gameplay and creates more goals to achieve, but that only works specifically because it is single-player.  As a roguelike game, DST games do not make it past the first year on average (playing the intended survival mode, which is the most commonly played mode).

That said, you could definitely add boats to the game, as well as water resources and content (maybe a few of the bosses).  The key would be as @Arlesienne stated and focus on adding larger ponds, lakes, rivers, etc. into the world generation and essentially turn boats into a tool for fishing, exploring, and traveling.  As for the volcano, I am not sure.  I am not sure the server would be too terribly taxing on modern computers, but I worry that it would essentially be adding content for nothing.

This is already an issue with existing content in the game, a large portion of said content isn't used.  Adding what amounts to an entire expansion to the game seems like a lot of work and development time for what amounts to only a small return in user enjoyment.  Instead, I would suggest integrating ideas from SW into the base world.

Implementing water mechanics and overhauls to how the base game works is something I've actually considered doing myself.  However, I'm not confident on my ability to create nice water tiles that blend in with the style of the game and I'm not sure Klei would appreciate me using DS:SW's art to make it happen.

THIS.

The great issue with suggesting DS stuff for DST is that the ones doing the suggesting forget about how DST by default supports more than one person. Adding a river or two to the overworld, maybe with a tiny (TINY) island with SW assets on it, sounds much less resource-expensive than implementing entire new shards or enlarging the overworld to host an entire archipelago. I'm speaking from the host's position. I have two powerhouses from which I host, and I fear that wouldn't be enough for something like this.

As for assets, Klei is quite alright with pro publico bono mods with given credit. There are several SW ports. I have been testing them all, I believe (all I know of on the workshop, that is). This works. @Joachim added some assets from SW into Multi-Worlds DST. You basically need to use some rather than everything, credit Klei and ensure there's no doubt about the fact you're not making profit from the mod.

 

[Ecu]

2 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

As for assets, Klei is quite alright with pro publico bono mods with given credit. There are several SW ports. I have been testing them all, I believe (all I know of on the workshop, that is). This works. @Joachim added some assets from SW into Multi-Worlds DST. You basically need to use some rather than everything, credit Klei and ensure there's no doubt about the fact you're not making profit from the mod.

Many of people said that Klei would be alright with such, however, I personally don't want to accept the community's word on it (no offence).  Implementing water travel akin to SW in DST would take a great deal of time to animate and do accompanying art for.  I don't really feel comfortable devoting such time to such a project without prior written approval from Klei to use assets from DS/SW.

I feel this should probably be something posted as a pinned topic in both DS and DST modding forums so that everyone understands what limits we have when using Klei's artwork.

[Arlesienne]

26 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Many of people said that Klei would be alright with such, however, I personally don't want to accept the community's word on it (no offence).  Implementing water travel akin to SW in DST would take a great deal of time to animate and do accompanying art for.  I don't really feel comfortable devoting such time to such a project without prior written approval from Klei to use assets from DS/SW.

I feel this should probably be something posted as a pinned topic in both DS and DST modding forums so that everyone understands what limits we have when using Klei's artwork.

That's what I'm trying to tell you. Write a letter to Klei and ask. That's what we all do.

[Ecu]

Just now, Arlesienne said:

That's what I'm trying to tell you. Write a letter to Klei and ask. That's what we all do.

Oh, I know I could and probably would if implementing such features were a huge priority to me.  However, I'm someone that is horrible to motivate and enjoy the design/conceptualization more than the implementation.  As such, I may end up eventually contacting them...or I might not at all.  Really depends on how much I want to accomplish this before I lose interest in DST.

If someone else manages to get them to publically announce allowing DS/DST resources as fair game in mods for said games, then I may take a crack at things out of appreciation for others supporting the project alone.  If left to my own devices, however, I'm not quite sure.

[Arlesienne]

Just now, Ecu said:

If someone else manages to get them to publically announce allowing DS/DST resources as fair game in mods for said games

I believe this may not actually happen, because it is an individual thing. Speaking from the point of a person creating assets other people incorporate in their art. You want to know what this guy wants to use your stuff for, so emails are the way.

[Ecu]

3 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

I believe this may not actually happen, because it is an individual thing. Speaking from the point of a person creating assets other people incorporate in their art. You want to know what this guy wants to use your stuff for, so emails are the way.

Might not happen, however, I think for a developer trying to further a modding community...they should make clear exactly what is allowed to be done with their content.  If they are unwilling to make a decision on behalf of the whole community, I would say that it adds further reasons to not continue with large mod projects.

[Vargling]

3 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Because just changing the location through a wormhole is less resource-expensive than when you have animated water in which animated life thrives and you, the animated guy, are freely moving around.

THIS.

The great issue with suggesting DS stuff for DST is that the ones doing the suggesting forget about how DST by default supports more than one person. Adding a river or two to the overworld, maybe with a tiny (TINY) island with SW assets on it, sounds much less resource-expensive than implementing entire new shards or enlarging the overworld to host an entire archipelago. I'm speaking from the host's position. I have two powerhouses from which I host, and I fear that wouldn't be enough for something like this.

As for assets, Klei is quite alright with pro publico bono mods with given credit. There are several SW ports. I have been testing them all, I believe (all I know of on the workshop, that is). This works. @Joachim added some assets from SW into Multi-Worlds DST. You basically need to use some rather than everything, credit Klei and ensure there's no doubt about the fact you're not making profit from the mod.

 

Well, if no sailing, why not just Caves travel? People underestimate their usefulness for that in DST. They can be used to cross gaps or oceans and aren't as easy to get through as wormholes.

[Arlesienne]

Just now, Vargling said:

Well, if no sailing, why not just Caves travel? People underestimate their usefulness for that in DST. They can be used to cross gaps or oceans and aren't as easy to get through as wormholes.

Because the crucial difference between wormholes and sinkholes is that the latter require multi-sharded servers, straining on resources, whereas the former do not.