Could you give ghosts something to do?

[Mario384]

I still think ghosts should function like their mob variants, and be able to basically be weaker Abigails.  In which case they can be killed, and when they are, they drop their skull which a player can kill a mob by to bring the ghost back.

[leonseye]

Honestly, I think it would be nice, instead of giving them something to "do", we just gave them a time limit.

After 48 in-game hours as a ghost, if you have not been returned to your mortal body, you are instead returned to the character select screen and start over.

Heck, I'd download the crap out of that if it were a mod, lol.

[DarkXero]

38 minutes ago, leonseye said:

After 48 in-game hours as a ghost, if you have not been returned to your mortal body, you are instead returned to the character select screen and start over.

Wilderness?

[leonseye]

15 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

Wilderness?

The problem w/ Wilderness is that it's not really conducive to playing with your friends at all.  The whole "Together" part of DST, you know?

It does send you back to the select screen when you die, sure, but it does not let you enter the game in a central(ish) location to gather w/ friends; it does not give you any opportunity to resurrect your friends should they die, and it does not give you the opportunity to try to resurrect yourself should you know where a touchstone is.

Wilderness is great for public servers or PvP servers, but it's a little less desirable for just gathering friends to play casually, and yet still have a bit of challenge.

Perhaps I'm the only one who feels the lack of a game mode between Survival and Wilderness; I've never really seen anyone else bring it up before, so I've mostly kept mum about the whole thing.

However, I figured that if we're spitballing ideas here about ghosts, it might be an appropriate idea to give them an option other than "quit the server" if they can't find a way to rez themselves, and also to curb the sanity drain problem from having multiple ghosts of newer players (or griefers, or what have you) on a server causing everyone else to quit the server.

At least this way, there's a proverbial light at the end of the tunnel for everybody.  : )

[DarkXero]

14 minutes ago, leonseye said:

It does send you back to the select screen when you die, sure, but it does not let you enter the game in a central(ish) location to gather w/ friends; it does not give you any opportunity to resurrect your friends should they die, and it does not give you the opportunity to try to resurrect yourself should you know where a touchstone is.

Wilderness is great for public servers or PvP servers, but it's a little less desirable for just gathering friends to play casually, and yet still have a bit of challenge.

Perhaps I'm the only one who feels the lack of a game mode between Survival and Wilderness; I've never really seen anyone else bring it up before, so I've mostly kept mum about the whole thing.

However, I figured that if we're spitballing ideas here about ghosts, it might be an appropriate idea to give them an option other than "quit the server" if they can't find a way to rez themselves, and also to curb the sanity drain problem from having multiple ghosts of newer players on a server causing everyone else to quit the server.

Endless then.

[leonseye]

11 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

Endless then.

Endless is like the exact opposite of a challenge...

This also does absolutely nothing for the perceived "problem", which is the mind-numbing boredom of being a ghost.

Y'know, the topic... : P

[DarkXero]

3 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Endless is like the exact opposite of a challenge...

Well, but you want to give ghosts an option to resurrect themselves and appear at the portal. And also want to curb the sanity drain.

Endless is that.

The only thing Endless wouldn't have is that if everybody dies at the same time, then the world would reset because there wouldn't be enough time to wait until you go to the character screen. But then again all you need is one guy sitting in the base (and if you are playing together then this can be expected), and the rest waits. Or just end up abandoning the server.

So, Endless.

[leonseye]

No, what I said was that it would be nice if there was a mode between Survival and Wilderness, that still had the "challenge" of Survival and resurrection and central location spawning (Survival has all of that already) as well as world resetting if EVERYONE dies, but if a player died, they could become a ghost and after a set time period, if they weren't able to resurrect themselves somehow, would then be sent back to the character select screen.

So no, not Endless.

[T4T3RGR3NAD3R]

Really though can we have ghost emotes?

[Mario384]

7 hours ago, leonseye said:

No, what I said was that it would be nice if there was a mode between Survival and Wilderness, that still had the "challenge" of Survival and resurrection and central location spawning (Survival has all of that already) as well as world resetting if EVERYONE dies, but if a player died, they could become a ghost and after a set time period, if they weren't able to resurrect themselves somehow, would then be sent back to the character select screen.

So no, not Endless.

Actually, yes Endless, because the world would never reset.  If everyone dies at different times, people will be respawning as others are dying, and therefore the world never resets.

[leonseye]

12 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

Actually, yes Endless, because the world would never reset.  If everyone dies at different times, people will be respawning as others are dying, and therefore the world never resets.

"This thing is similar, so it's the exact same thing".

No, it's really not.

But either way, it's pretty clear that nobody else is really interested in such a thing, so it really is a moot point.

[BeastNips]

I made a suggestion like this a while back when discussing if the Tell Tale Heart was too easy. 

I suggested a structure called The Corporeal Form Emitter. This basically creates a radius around it (like the Flingomatic) which allows ghosts to enter corporeal form. This effectively allows you to place these structures around jobs (such as tending the base) so ghosts have something to do, but their interaction with the world is limited to around this structure. I imagined it as turning from a ghost to a transparent version of themselves once they enter the radius of the Emitter, then back to a ghost as they leave.

Of course this is redundant if the Tell Tale Heart is still in the game as it's massively easy to just resurrect players once you're about 10 days or so into the game. I haven't played in a while thought; is the Tell Tale Heart still easy to make? 

[NeddoFreddo]

3 hours ago, BeastNips said:

is the Tell Tale Heart still easy to make?

The Telltale heart I find extremely easy to make, and I find that it doesn't take 10 days to make one (unless you can't find any spiders for ages lol) The recipe is still the same (3xCut grass, 1x spider gland, 40 hp) But the telltale heart does take off their max health so that can be an issue.

[Schism_989]

2 hours ago, NeddoFreddo said:

The Telltale heart I find extremely easy to make, and I find that it doesn't take 10 days to make one (unless you can't find any spiders for ages lol) The recipe is still the same (3xCut grass, 1x spider gland, 40 hp) But the telltale heart does take off their max health so that can be an issue.

It can be easily fixed with any custom or removed revival penalty mod. Though yes, Telltale hearts are really easy to make if spiders can be found easily (which in most cases, they are). If spiders are unable to be found, a Webber can create one nearby, but not close enough for the spiders to screw stuff up. Just far enough that you can get there and get back within the day.

[BeastNips]

On 6/10/2016 at 0:43 PM, NeddoFreddo said:

The Telltale heart I find extremely easy to make, and I find that it doesn't take 10 days to make one (unless you can't find any spiders for ages lol) The recipe is still the same (3xCut grass, 1x spider gland, 40 hp) But the telltale heart does take off their max health so that can be an issue.

This really is the elephant in the room then: Ghosts don't require anything to do because they can be revived so easily. Would be nice for a hard-mode though. 

[Haroldman]

Well you can attune meat effigy's to auto spawn you there when you die right? why not the ability to attune the touchstone? This would ease some of the boredom as you can easily cut out the walking to your touchstone. Just make sure it gives you some light so you can wait till day if its night.

Being a ghost is rather boring right now, but i cant help feeling that if it wasn't people would become a ghost more often and death would become more as an alternate game style then something you want to avoid.

[Haroldman]

49 minutes ago, BeastNips said:

This really is the elephant in the room then: Ghosts don't require anything to do because they can be revived so easily. Would be nice for a hard-mode though. 

Telltale hearts shouldn't be a part of the game in my opinion, removes all urgency from death, there are many ways to revive already, touchstones and meat effigies as well as amulets (which are pretty much just deluxe telltale hearts that you can use yourself), being able to rez someone at the start of the game is fine for new players, but there wont be new players forever and it really hampers the urgency of death.

 

On 09/06/2016 at 7:39 PM, leonseye said:

if a player died, they could become a ghost and after a set time period, if they weren't able to resurrect themselves somehow, would then be sent back to the character select screen.

I think it would be better if after said timer you were kicked from server in till a new world was generated, so its kinda in tune with the original dont starve. if you prepared and had a team it wouldn't be that hard to revive someone in say, 2 days, but you might damn well have to run across the map in the freezing tundra risking your own life to do so. So, something of urgency, instead of just an annoyance, reviving at the portal as a new dude is too easy to exploit to change characters. 

[Schism_989]

6 hours ago, Haroldman said:

Telltale hearts shouldn't be a part of the game in my opinion, removes all urgency from death, there are many ways to revive already, touchstones and meat effigies as well as amulets (which are pretty much just deluxe telltale hearts that you can use yourself), being able to rez someone at the start of the game is fine for new players, but there wont be new players forever and it really hampers the urgency of death.

 

I think it would be better if after said timer you were kicked from server in till a new world was generated, so its kinda in tune with the original dont starve. if you prepared and had a team it wouldn't be that hard to revive someone in say, 2 days, but you might damn well have to run across the map in the freezing tundra risking your own life to do so. So, something of urgency, instead of just an annoyance, reviving at the portal as a new dude is too easy to exploit to change characters. 

Kicked after an amount of time? In my opinion, that'd be bad. You're basically BANNED. What if you're the host and the game isn't dedicated? Server goes down, and you have to get rid of everyone's hard work to play again. I say after a while it just sends you back to character select.

[Haroldman]

'' Kicked after an amount of time? In my opinion, that'd be bad. You're basically BANNED. What if you're the host and the game isn't dedicated? Server goes down, and you have to get rid of everyone's hard work to play again. I say after a while it just sends you back to character select. ''

Thats kinda the point, since DST is meant to be sequel of sorts, permdeath should be brought back to the table, if you die, and you dont have a touchstone or effigy or amulet, no one can rez you within a couple mins etc. you should be out of the game. Ofc this should be editable for those that dont want this, but its inline with the original.

'' I say after a while it just sends you back to character select. ''

I dont want to be Wilson anymore now i have my stack of beard hair, ill just kill myself and wait 5 min and become Wolfgang. Yes this is what will happen. Kinda dashes on the whole idea of death as a punishment for doing something wrong in the game.

Im not sure if this should or should not apply to the host, but like i said it could all be customisable.

[Schism_989]

1 hour ago, Haroldman said:

'' Kicked after an amount of time? In my opinion, that'd be bad. You're basically BANNED. What if you're the host and the game isn't dedicated? Server goes down, and you have to get rid of everyone's hard work to play again. I say after a while it just sends you back to character select. ''

Thats kinda the point, since DST is meant to be sequel of sorts, permdeath should be brought back to the table, if you die, and you dont have a touchstone or effigy or amulet, no one can rez you within a couple mins etc. you should be out of the game. Ofc this should be editable for those that dont want this, but its inline with the original.

'' I say after a while it just sends you back to character select. ''

I dont want to be Wilson anymore now i have my stack of beard hair, ill just kill myself and wait 5 min and become Wolfgang. Yes this is what will happen. Kinda dashes on the whole idea of death as a punishment for doing something wrong in the game.

Im not sure if this should or should not apply to the host, but like i said it could all be customisable.

I still think it's a bad idea. A multiplayer Free Roam game like DST would be horrible with permadeath. If it's customizable, sure, I can deal with it, but it should NOT APPLY TO THE HOST. If you're kicked from the game as host until it's rolled back, the server is basically done for, and everything is gotten rid of unless you use the cheap rollback feature that everyone hates. Even I hate using it because it differs from the normal DS game. Plus, Permadeath is possible through survival if everyone dies. 

 

[BeastNips]

17 hours ago, Haroldman said:

'' Kicked after an amount of time? In my opinion, that'd be bad. You're basically BANNED. What if you're the host and the game isn't dedicated? Server goes down, and you have to get rid of everyone's hard work to play again. I say after a while it just sends you back to character select. ''

Thats kinda the point, since DST is meant to be sequel of sorts, permdeath should be brought back to the table, if you die, and you dont have a touchstone or effigy or amulet, no one can rez you within a couple mins etc. you should be out of the game. Ofc this should be editable for those that dont want this, but its inline with the original.

'' I say after a while it just sends you back to character select. ''

I dont want to be Wilson anymore now i have my stack of beard hair, ill just kill myself and wait 5 min and become Wolfgang. Yes this is what will happen. Kinda dashes on the whole idea of death as a punishment for doing something wrong in the game.

Im not sure if this should or should not apply to the host, but like i said it could all be customisable.

This has been discussed at length and I don't think you'll ever be able to sell permadeath. I'm not going to go into the reasons why nor am I saying I necessarily agree, but there are a ton of good reason why permadeath doesn't exist in Together. I'm not saying it couldn't be some kind of unique game mode but it will never be the norm; it would be a huge own-goal for the developers if they made permadeath the standard form of play.

What is left to debate is what form death takes in terms of what ghosts can/can't do (such as the point of this thread) and how easy it is to return to the living. 

[Schism_989]

22 hours ago, Haroldman said:

I dont want to be Wilson anymore now i have my stack of beard hair, ill just kill myself and wait 5 min and become Wolfgang. Yes this is what will happen. Kinda dashes on the whole idea of death as a punishment for doing something wrong in the game.

Yeeeeees but in a multiplayer game, there's going to be someone picking those beard hairs up anyways. Not even wait 5 minutes, like player ghosts working like mob ghosts, being able to attack mobs, but also can be killed. Once killed as a ghost, they return to the character select screen, like that one mod I found.

If you're on a cooperative server, there basically isn't ANY punishment from dying aside from the health removal. Kicking someone from the game entirely until the server resets would be horrible. What if it's endless, and the Host never resets because they have a mod where resources renew themselves? I'll give you a while to answer, I'm actually open to ideas of a workaround through that. 

[FappyGilmore]

Ghosts can be used to create werepigs, fire/ice hounds, change mushroom types, spawn tree guards, make dark petals, turn spiders against eachother, and much more that I likely don't know about. So, I think ghosts are good where they are. You should be punished for dying, not rewarded. Only change I would make is fixing the ability for ghosts to turn a crockpot meal into goop when haunting the crockpot while it is making the meal.

[Schism_989]

1 hour ago, FappyGilmore said:

Ghosts can be used to create werepigs, fire/ice hounds, change mushroom types, spawn tree guards, make dark petals, turn spiders against eachother, and much more that I likely don't know about. So, I think ghosts are good where they are. You should be punished for dying, not rewarded. Only change I would make is fixing the ability for ghosts to turn a crockpot meal into goop when haunting the crockpot while it is making the meal.

Good point. Ghosts are fine how they are normally, and kicking until the server resets, aka basically banning, is far too harsh. Noobs playing as Ghosts also realize they shouldn't haunt things unless the living needs something from the haunting. So yeah, they's fine as they are.

[t0panka]

16 hours ago, FappyGilmore said:

Ghosts can be used to create werepigs, fire/ice hounds, change mushroom types, spawn tree guards, make dark petals, turn spiders against eachother, and much more that I likely don't know about. So, I think ghosts are good where they are. You should be punished for dying, not rewarded. Only change I would make is fixing the ability for ghosts to turn a crockpot meal into goop when haunting the crockpot while it is making the meal.

+1111