The Beaver Needs A Buff

[Mario384]

2 minutes ago, FractalBrot said:

If you let the werebeaver wear hats, I'd want the grass suit damage reduction removed, otherwise that's just getting annoying again. I actually think that'd be somewhat interesting.

Thing is though, the way DST works is if he has a hat on it's like he doesn't have grass suit damage reduction.

[FractalBrot]

You mean currently, or a hypothetical? Because I can assure you the armor reduction stacks atm in DST. There's a difference in how the armor degrades in DST compared to single player.

[Mario384]

2 minutes ago, FractalBrot said:

You mean currently, or a hypothetical? Because I can assure you the armor reduction stacks atm in DST. There's a difference in how the armor degrades in DST compared to single player.

From the wiki:

 

When the character is wearing both chest armor and head armor, the total received damage would be distributed as follows (armor absorption does not stack in DST)

[FractalBrot]

I know what you're referring to, but that is talking about the health of the armor, in singleplayer the first piece of armor takes the majority of the damage, while the second armor remains mostly untouched, that was changed in DST to make it so both pieces of armor take equal damage essentially.

Both games still have the same damage reduction for the player though, it stacks multiplicatively, from the wiki, a grass suit and a football helmet would result in a 92% damage in reduction. Grass suit has 60% reduciton and football helmet has 80%, so 0.2 x 0.4 = 0.02 or 92% damage reduction.

You can test this out too, try using gunpowder on yourself with a log suit, and then with a log suit + football helmet, there's a clear damage reduction boost.

[Mario384]

2 minutes ago, FractalBrot said:

I know what you're referring to, but that is talking about the health of the armor, in singleplayer the first piece of armor takes the majority of the damage, while the second armor remains mostly untouched, that was changed in DST to make it so both pieces of armor take equal damage essentially.

Both games still have the same damage reduction for the player though, it stacks multiplicatively, from the wiki, a grass suit and a football helmet would result in a 92% damage in reduction. Grass suit has 60% reduciton and football helmet has 80%, so 0.2 x 0.4 = 0.02 or 92% damage reduction.

Well then, in which case, theoretically the Beaver should have only the headslot's armor protection, just for fairness.

[DarkXero]

51 minutes ago, FractalBrot said:

Both games still have the same damage reduction for the player though, it stacks multiplicatively, from the wiki, a grass suit and a football helmet would result in a 92% damage in reduction. Grass suit has 60% reduciton and football helmet has 80%, so 0.2 x 0.4 = 0.02 or 92% damage reduction.

You can test this out too, try using gunpowder on yourself with a log suit, and then with a log suit + football helmet, there's a clear damage reduction boost.

I just did. And you are wrong.

With log suit, or with log suit + football helmet, my health changed the same.

The damage was distributed correctly, so by wearing a log suit, my football helmet took less damage.

I am going to assume you failed to account for fire damage properly, and had different times of exposure to fire when gunpowder was lit.

Repeat your experiment with a Deerclops or a spider.

 

I don't care about having a hat on the beaver. It would be preferable to let him heal himself by eating wood.

Wood would only heal beaver Woodie, not human Woodie.

[FractalBrot]

Oh you're right, I could've sworn otherwise, guess that's just me talking out of my ass. Has it always been like that or is it a recent change?

[FractalBrot]

Guess that makes shadow armor a lot stronger than I initially thought too if armor reduction doesn't stack.

[Mario384]

Hmm...  It's been almost half a week, yet no word.  I wonder how often the Klei guys working on DST actually read the fourms?

[GuyNamedChris]

*ahem* RAVIOLI RAVIOLI GIVE ME THE BEAVER RIDE-I

@nome @PeterA @Ipsquiggle @JanH etc, etc...

[Mario384]

Also, when Woodie becomes the Beaver, if he's killed anyone, Hungry Like The Wolf plays, and everyone hears, louder if they're closer to the Beaver.  /s

[Mario384]

Also, another possibility for buffing would be to have an upgrade system for the Beaver, where you can make Beaver Mode more tolerable and gaining more perks over time by eating Living Logs.

[GuyNamedChris]

On 5/29/2016 at 9:26 PM, Mario384 said:

Also, when Woodie becomes the Beaver, if he's killed anyone, Hungry Like The Wolf plays, and everyone hears, louder if they're closer to the Beaver.  /s

Fighting a murderous oversized beaver to catchy 80's music. 

[GiddyGuy]

1 hour ago, Mario384 said:

Also, another possibility for buffing would be to have an upgrade system for the Beaver, where you can make Beaver Mode more tolerable and gaining more perks over time by eating Living Logs.

I don't think Klei would ever do that, have they ever done that with any other characters? Not including Wx-78 cause he only gets stat increases, and healing from eating gears.

But if they ever did make a skyrim character that would be pretty interesting but probably op.

BEAVER FUS RO DAH!!!

[osmRhodey]

I do feel this thread would be more effective in the Suggestions & Feedback thread, but that's beside the point.

I honestly have been feeling the beaver has needed some tweaking(not necessarily buffage) since he came out. Like what he has is amazing for story but terrible for gameplay and makes a lot of people dislike him and not want to be a beaver at all. Not to mention going from Single Player to MultiPlayer throws many people off.

Honestly the things I've wanted wouldn't be too far off in making it a tad balanced and fun for all. It's never good to balance around PvP but always keep in mind griefing too.

If I was to state any of my ideas(and I have multiple times before) it would be these to keep it simple:

• Flip the log meter back around
   

  • No more 100 counting to 0, go back to 0 counting to 100, like it is in single player
  • You change when you hit 100 again making it less confusing
  • This will fix a lot of the issues where people aren't sure how to play Woodie in the switch from single to multi
  • Have it drain over time like in single and make it so logs and such can drain it faster
• Take the log meter off of the Woodie screen until you've hit thresholds
   

  • Make Lucy the calling card for the curse again
  • When you've hit the halfway, three-quarters, and nearly turned, Lucy speaks, this will prompt the log meter to flash on the screen and then fade back out after a little (it's your job to remember and keep track of the meter)
  • Obviously as a beaver it would remain as it is, this is only affecting Woodie
• Raise his damage to spear level and keep the increased damage to wood based things(treeguards, log armor, etc)
   

  • The nerf is somewhat needed in multi to keep some of the gameplay from going awol
  • Keep his increased attack speed unless it's versus a player (we don't need a stun lock)
  • He already can take out armor and tree guards effectivly but anything else is difficult so bringing the damage up to a midway point is a fair balance to help out friends
• Tie the log meter with the health as an armor buffer
   

  • Think of it like this, your log meter is your main armor and you already have a very weak base armor on your beaver self, the log meter will act accordingly;
    • The higher it is, the more damage it absorbs thus giving a better reason to keep it filled
    • It drains fast but not so fast as to make it unusable(even on the full moon)
    • You still have about 60% at base(grass), the log meter will improve this going up to 95% max(night/marble), and 80% in the mid-regions(log)
  • This can also fit in if you were to say have the log meter slowly tick off and slowly heal the beaver over time, similar to the amulet
    • That or simply make it so other players can heal each other again
• Make the beaver more immune to the cold but not so much the heat
   

  • I understand that's somewhat where it lies now but stretch it a tad more
  • During winter the beaver would probably be fine, having a higher insulation than it does now, maybe not even affected by the winter
  • Summer would not be fun as it would most likely over heat quicker
    • To help with this maybe make it possible for the beaver to quickly jump in a pond and then jump out with a lowered temperature, raised wetness meter and frogs/mosquitoes trailing behind
    • If this is done too often you'll obviously begin freezing from the wetness so be careful
• The sanity has been an issue for a while and makes a lot of people not want to play Woodie, have Lucy help
   

  • Make it so if Lucy the Axe is on your personal inventory, not hand or backpack, she affects how sanity will hit you
    • Either she makes you stop draining after a certain amount is hit
    • Or she makes it so even if your sanity is drained to the insane threshold the nightmares won't attack
    • Following previous, she would be able to get knocked off similar to a frog, but by anything, this would be a random chance but as soon as she's off, if you're insane, the nightmares come a runnin'
  • Make the sanity drain slower on days that are not the full moon

[GiddyGuy]

@osmRhodey I agree with all your points (except the one below) however...what about beaver riding doe?

14 minutes ago, osmRhodey said:

this will prompt the log meter to flash on the screen and then fade back out after a little (it's your job to remember and keep track of the meter)

That's kind of pointless, might as well have it only appear when you're turned into the werebeaver right?

[osmRhodey]

2 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

@osmRhodey I agree with all your points (except the one below) however...what about beaver riding doe?

That's kind of pointless, might as well have it only appear when you're turned into the werebeaver right?

This is simply to assist the people who have trouble being reminded. It would be a short time as well. It's only at certain points of the log meter and then goes away again. TBH it could be completely optional. But really this is for the people who forget to listen to Lucy and get a small notice on screen to assist.(especially if you cannot hear as in DST there is much more happening than in single)

Beaver riding would be great but isn't made into a key point as I don't really see much of a use other than fun. Maybe battle beaver but still. That's a debatable point and kept low on the list.
It would definitely need to the beaver player to have some affect though if they didn't want to be ridden, similar to untamed beefalo. Buck off a person and you can attack them.

[GiddyGuy]

12 minutes ago, osmRhodey said:

Beaver riding would be great but isn't made into a key point as I don't really see much of a use other than fun.

I thought videogames were made for fun. 

And maybe they could make it so you can click on woodie and do like a "offer" stance and if Woodie clicks on you, you can hop on him, and get small speed boost to your destination.

12 minutes ago, osmRhodey said:

It would definitely need to the beaver player to have some affect though if they didn't want to be ridden, similar to untamed beefalo. Buck off a person and you can attack them.

I forgot to mention if they didn't make it so the Woodie player couldn't control where they both go, that would be pretty bad.

[osmRhodey]

2 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

I thought videogames were made for fun. 

And maybe they could make it so you can click on woodie and do like a "offer" stance and if Woodie clicks on you, you can hop on him, and get small speed boost to your destination.

They are but the points right now are to fix issues in the gameplay as a whole and then look at little fun things on the side.

Possibly. That or if you have someone on you when you don't want them, click on yourself/ctrl+f to knock them off.
I would find it neato if while using the beaver as a riding buddy you could feed him logs, living logs, etc. He would act as a wall for some of your damage and maybe you could attack while on his back?? I mean this would make kiting really fun but probably OP.
Attacking would probably be more of a use only if you have ranged weapons. And attacks would most likely knock off the rider instantly.

[Mario384]

6 hours ago, osmRhodey said:

I do feel this thread would be more effective in the Suggestions & Feedback thread, but that's beside the point.

I honestly have been feeling the beaver has needed some tweaking(not necessarily buffage) since he came out. Like what he has is amazing for story but terrible for gameplay and makes a lot of people dislike him and not want to be a beaver at all. Not to mention going from Single Player to MultiPlayer throws many people off.

Honestly the things I've wanted wouldn't be too far off in making it a tad balanced and fun for all. It's never good to balance around PvP but always keep in mind griefing too.

If I was to state any of my ideas(and I have multiple times before) it would be these to keep it simple:

• Flip the log meter back around
    Reveal hidden contents

  • No more 100 counting to 0, go back to 0 counting to 100, like it is in single player
  • You change when you hit 100 again making it less confusing
  • This will fix a lot of the issues where people aren't sure how to play Woodie in the switch from single to multi
  • Have it drain over time like in single and make it so logs and such can drain it faster
• Take the log meter off of the Woodie screen until you've hit thresholds
    Reveal hidden contents

  • Make Lucy the calling card for the curse again
  • When you've hit the halfway, three-quarters, and nearly turned, Lucy speaks, this will prompt the log meter to flash on the screen and then fade back out after a little (it's your job to remember and keep track of the meter)
  • Obviously as a beaver it would remain as it is, this is only affecting Woodie
• Raise his damage to spear level and keep the increased damage to wood based things(treeguards, log armor, etc)
    Reveal hidden contents

  • The nerf is somewhat needed in multi to keep some of the gameplay from going awol
  • Keep his increased attack speed unless it's versus a player (we don't need a stun lock)
  • He already can take out armor and tree guards effectivly but anything else is difficult so bringing the damage up to a midway point is a fair balance to help out friends
• Tie the log meter with the health as an armor buffer
    Reveal hidden contents

  • Think of it like this, your log meter is your main armor and you already have a very weak base armor on your beaver self, the log meter will act accordingly;
    • The higher it is, the more damage it absorbs thus giving a better reason to keep it filled
    • It drains fast but not so fast as to make it unusable(even on the full moon)
    • You still have about 60% at base(grass), the log meter will improve this going up to 95% max(night/marble), and 80% in the mid-regions(log)
  • This can also fit in if you were to say have the log meter slowly tick off and slowly heal the beaver over time, similar to the amulet
    • That or simply make it so other players can heal each other again
• Make the beaver more immune to the cold but not so much the heat
    Reveal hidden contents

  • I understand that's somewhat where it lies now but stretch it a tad more
  • During winter the beaver would probably be fine, having a higher insulation than it does now, maybe not even affected by the winter
  • Summer would not be fun as it would most likely over heat quicker
    • To help with this maybe make it possible for the beaver to quickly jump in a pond and then jump out with a lowered temperature, raised wetness meter and frogs/mosquitoes trailing behind
    • If this is done too often you'll obviously begin freezing from the wetness so be careful
• The sanity has been an issue for a while and makes a lot of people not want to play Woodie, have Lucy help
    Reveal hidden contents

  • Make it so if Lucy the Axe is on your personal inventory, not hand or backpack, she affects how sanity will hit you
    • Either she makes you stop draining after a certain amount is hit
    • Or she makes it so even if your sanity is drained to the insane threshold the nightmares won't attack
    • Following previous, she would be able to get knocked off similar to a frog, but by anything, this would be a random chance but as soon as she's off, if you're insane, the nightmares come a runnin'
  • Make the sanity drain slower on days that are not the full moon

I like all these except for the first, mainy because having it drain over time as beaver removes the point of the Full Moon, which is to have to go on a wood-chucking rampage before your Beaver Bar makes you starve.

[osmRhodey]

48 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

I like all these except for the first, mainy because having it drain over time as beaver removes the point of the Full Moon, which is to have to go on a wood-chucking rampage before your Beaver Bar makes you starve.

The beaver already drains and it does that normally in single player. People don't immediately change back though because of the benefits.

And, actually no it wouldn't. A friend of mine and myself have spoken about this before. It could be a possible case that even with this mechanic, perhaps simply make it so you're stuck as the beaver during the full moon. It is a possible thing to do and would make it so you begin starving when empty. Heck you could even start off with a low set in the meter like usual.

I'll be quite honest, the whole starving aspect doesn't ring very well with me as it is. It's a neat idea but with how everything else is, it's not well executed. Everything being such a dramatic change from single player throws a loop into things. And although it's neat and I'm able to easily manage myself it's not that great or fun.

If the meter ever WAS flipped back around, having you stuck on full moons with a quickly draining meter would still allow for a rampage. Then you wait for after to safely combat everything. There in lies an issue of, you don't want to be a giant hassle to your teammates and you don't want to aggravate the players too much.

Sadly this fine line is running a course for lots of characters on the flip from single to multiplayer.

Whoops long post lol

[Mario384]

7 hours ago, osmRhodey said:

to

 

7 hours ago, osmRhodey said:

The beaver already drains and it does that normally in single player. People don't immediately change back though because of the benefits.

And, actually no it wouldn't. A friend of mine and myself have spoken about this before. It could be a possible case that even with this mechanic, perhaps simply make it so you're stuck as the beaver during the full moon. It is a possible thing to do and would make it so you begin starving when empty. Heck you could even start off with a low set in the meter like usual.

I'll be quite honest, the whole starving aspect doesn't ring very well with me as it is. It's a neat idea but with how everything else is, it's not well executed. Everything being such a dramatic change from single player throws a loop into things. And although it's neat and I'm able to easily manage myself it's not that great or fun.

If the meter ever WAS flipped back around, having you stuck on full moons with a quickly draining meter would still allow for a rampage. Then you wait for after to safely combat everything. There in lies an issue of, you don't want to be a giant hassle to your teammates and you don't want to aggravate the players too much.

Sadly this fine line is running a course for lots of characters on the flip from single to multiplayer.

Whoops long post lol

You see though, with what you're currently suggesting, there's no way to prolong Beaver Form, if eating logs decreases the time it takes and it decreases by itself as well.  The new Log Meter isn't too difficult to understand, in my opinion.  I got an understanding pretty quickly, since Lucy also tips you off on what you need to do.

[osmRhodey]

2 hours ago, Mario384 said:

 

You see though, with what you're currently suggesting, there's no way to prolong Beaver Form, if eating logs decreases the time it takes and it decreases by itself as well.  The new Log Meter isn't too difficult to understand, in my opinion.  I got an understanding pretty quickly, since Lucy also tips you off on what you need to do.

It wouldn't though? That part of the suggestion would literally only effect Woodie. The beaver would be more akin to single player. You eat logs and such to prolong it like single player already does.

Sounds a tad confusing but in an overall scheme makes sense. To keep the werebeaver off initially you eat logs to satiate it, but it will drain in time if you stop chopping. And to keep the beaver form longer time you eat logs or munch things. That's single player right there, minus Woodie eating things. 

Am I making sense? :0

I see now that part is probably worded a bit...oddly.

[Mario384]

2 hours ago, osmRhodey said:

It wouldn't though? That part of the suggestion would literally only effect Woodie. The beaver would be more akin to single player. You eat logs and such to prolong it like single player already does.

Sounds a tad confusing but in an overall scheme makes sense. To keep the werebeaver off initially you eat logs to satiate it, but it will drain in time if you stop chopping. And to keep the beaver form longer time you eat logs or munch things. That's single player right there, minus Woodie eating things. 

Am I making sense? :0

I see now that part is probably worded a bit...oddly.

Okay, makes sense, works for me.

[hyiltiz]

On 5/31/2016 at 0:44 AM, osmRhodey said:

I do feel this thread would be more effective in the Suggestions & Feedback thread, but that's beside the point.

I honestly have been feeling the beaver has needed some tweaking(not necessarily buffage) since he came out. Like what he has is amazing for story but terrible for gameplay and makes a lot of people dislike him and not want to be a beaver at all. Not to mention going from Single Player to MultiPlayer throws many people off.

Honestly the things I've wanted wouldn't be too far off in making it a tad balanced and fun for all. It's never good to balance around PvP but always keep in mind griefing too.

If I was to state any of my ideas(and I have multiple times before) it would be these to keep it simple:

• Flip the log meter back around
    Hide contents

  • No more 100 counting to 0, go back to 0 counting to 100, like it is in single player
  • You change when you hit 100 again making it less confusing
  • This will fix a lot of the issues where people aren't sure how to play Woodie in the switch from single to multi
  • Have it drain over time like in single and make it so logs and such can drain it faster
• Take the log meter off of the Woodie screen until you've hit thresholds
    Hide contents

  • Make Lucy the calling card for the curse again
  • When you've hit the halfway, three-quarters, and nearly turned, Lucy speaks, this will prompt the log meter to flash on the screen and then fade back out after a little (it's your job to remember and keep track of the meter)
  • Obviously as a beaver it would remain as it is, this is only affecting Woodie
• Raise his damage to spear level and keep the increased damage to wood based things(treeguards, log armor, etc)
    Hide contents

  • The nerf is somewhat needed in multi to keep some of the gameplay from going awol
  • Keep his increased attack speed unless it's versus a player (we don't need a stun lock)
  • He already can take out armor and tree guards effectivly but anything else is difficult so bringing the damage up to a midway point is a fair balance to help out friends
• Tie the log meter with the health as an armor buffer
    Hide contents

  • Think of it like this, your log meter is your main armor and you already have a very weak base armor on your beaver self, the log meter will act accordingly;
    • The higher it is, the more damage it absorbs thus giving a better reason to keep it filled
    • It drains fast but not so fast as to make it unusable(even on the full moon)
    • You still have about 60% at base(grass), the log meter will improve this going up to 95% max(night/marble), and 80% in the mid-regions(log)
  • This can also fit in if you were to say have the log meter slowly tick off and slowly heal the beaver over time, similar to the amulet
    • That or simply make it so other players can heal each other again
• Make the beaver more immune to the cold but not so much the heat
    Hide contents

  • I understand that's somewhat where it lies now but stretch it a tad more
  • During winter the beaver would probably be fine, having a higher insulation than it does now, maybe not even affected by the winter
  • Summer would not be fun as it would most likely over heat quicker
    • To help with this maybe make it possible for the beaver to quickly jump in a pond and then jump out with a lowered temperature, raised wetness meter and frogs/mosquitoes trailing behind
    • If this is done too often you'll obviously begin freezing from the wetness so be careful
• The sanity has been an issue for a while and makes a lot of people not want to play Woodie, have Lucy help
    Hide contents

  • Make it so if Lucy the Axe is on your personal inventory, not hand or backpack, she affects how sanity will hit you
    • Either she makes you stop draining after a certain amount is hit
    • Or she makes it so even if your sanity is drained to the insane threshold the nightmares won't attack
    • Following previous, she would be able to get knocked off similar to a frog, but by anything, this would be a random chance but as soon as she's off, if you're insane, the nightmares come a runnin'
  • Make the sanity drain slower on days that are not the full moon

Good ideas, but too much change brought into table so it is not even Woodie anymore. I would say some of the (first half) can be considered tho.