Why couldn't Shipwrecked be like RotG ?

[Talavaj]

To start off with, I have to say I'm having moderate fun with the new expansion.

It is already a terrific value and I see a lot of potential in going forward.

I have even grown accustomed to the new aesthetic which I initially found to be lackluster and not "don't-starvey" enough.

 

Why couldn't Shipwrecked be done the same way RotG was ?

As in, implemented into the vanilla game.

I personally feel that was the strength of the RotG DLC, the fact that it fleshed out an already fleshed out and terrific game.

Now at the same time, I feel not doing so ended up being a crippling weakness of Shipwrecked.

 

Was it because the DLC was made by a different company who wished to go a completely different direction ?

Was it because you were wishing for a different kind of experience with SW ?

 

But why ? I don't think anybody hated the vanilla/RotG experience.

I personally really liked how RotG expanded the vanilla game in a variety of compelling ways. (expanding the old mechanics like rains or seasons with new ones and so on)

 

Now when I play Shipwrecked, I feel like I'm playing a game that is trying its hardest to distance itself from the source material... only to copy it in clumsy and uninspired ways.

Beefalo replaced with water Beefalo, Pig King replaced with Yaartopus, reskins of old mechanics to serve no purpose but to exist as reskins.

Lots of boring and uninspired creatures (crabs, wobsters, dogfishes, dolphins, rays yada yada) being nothing but sources of morsels existing solely to fill up the barren world that was deliberately stripped off its denizens.

Lots of boring and tedious mechanics such as volcano barrages, hails and floods that only force you to spend time doing something in a world that does not have a whole lot of things going for it.

 

Now I totally understand SW is just a $5 dlc and we can't expect the content to be on par with the combination of vanilla and RotG but exactly this is what pushes me to ask this question.

I understand it was a deliberate decision to make a new kind of experience, but why ?

There was a lot of unused map space on the old maps which could have easily been filled with water and islands.

Water could have been replaced with the new one, items and content could have been designed with old versions in mind from the get go.

 

Wouldn't it be SO MUCH better to spend time making up clever content instead of wasting time with scrapping things and replacing them with reskins ?

Wouldn't it be so much better if Yaartopus served a completely different purpose than pig King who would govern his own pig island ?

Wouldn't it be cool if mangroves were populated by something else while beefalo would be left to roam the islands ?

Was there something wrong with Gobblers, Tentacles, Glommer that they had to be replaced with uh... reskinned Splumonkeys and poorly drawn Snakes ?

 

Just my 5 cents.

[Silentdarkness1]

Because Shipwrecked doesn't work like the standard DS world. Plenty of the old assets require heavy modification to work.

 

Capy decided to put emphasis on getting the Shipwrecked world itself done before letting it be linked to a DS/RoG world.

[TwitcheryGamer]

To start off with, I have to say I'm having moderate fun with the new expansion.

It is already a terrific value and I see a lot of potential in going forward.

I have even grown accustomed to the new aesthetic which I initially found to be lackluster and not "don't-starvey" enough.

 

Why couldn't Shipwrecked be done the same way RotG was ?

As in, implemented into the vanilla game.

I personally feel that was the strength of the RotG DLC, the fact that it fleshed out an already fleshed out and terrific game.

Now at the same time, I feel not doing so ended up being a crippling weakness of Shipwrecked.

 

Was it because the DLC was made by a different company who wished to go a completely different direction ?

Was it because you were wishing for a different kind of experience with SW ?

 

But why ? I don't think anybody hated the vanilla/RotG experience.

I personally really liked how RotG expanded the vanilla game in a variety of compelling ways. (expanding the old mechanics like rains or seasons with new ones and so on)

 

Now when I play Shipwrecked, I feel like I'm playing a game that is trying its hardest to distance itself from the source material... only to copy it in clumsy and uninspired ways.

Beefalo replaced with water Beefalo, Pig King replaced with Yaartopus, reskins of old mechanics to serve no purpose but to exist as reskins.

Lots of boring and uninspired creatures (crabs, wobsters, dogfishes, dolphins, rays yada yada) being nothing but sources of morsels existing solely to fill up the barren world that was deliberately stripped off its denizens.

Lots of boring and tedious mechanics such as volcano barrages, hails and floods that only force you to spend time doing something in a world that does not have a whole lot of things going for it.

 

Now I totally understand SW is just a $5 dlc and we can't expect the content to be on par with the combination of vanilla and RotG but exactly this is what pushes me to ask this question.

I understand it was a deliberate decision to make a new kind of experience, but why ?

There was a lot of unused map space on the old maps which could have easily been filled with water and islands.

Water could have been replaced with the new one, items and content could have been designed with old versions in mind from the get go.

 

Wouldn't it be SO MUCH better to spend time making up clever content instead of wasting time with scrapping things and replacing them with reskins ?

Wouldn't it be so much better if Yaartopus served a completely different purpose than pig King who would govern his own pig island ?

Wouldn't it be cool if mangroves were populated by something else while beefalo would be left to roam the islands ?

Was there something wrong with Gobblers, Tentacles, Glommer that they had to be replaced with uh... reskinned Splumonkeys and poorly drawn Snakes ?

 

Just my 5 cents.

 

SW is still very much in its early stages of playability.

I bet at least half of what it's like now will not be what's in store for it is in full release.

[Talavaj]

Because Shipwrecked doesn't work like the standard DS world. Plenty of the old assets require heavy modification to work.

That is because they have decided to make the game standalone.

If the game was designed in a way that would work with the vanilla worlds in the first place I'm sure there would be absolutely no problems.

 

I'm not asking why it can't be done now, just asking why they came to the initial decision of not doing so.

[julz1981]

it is NOT standalone...it's an expension and it's been said several times already, at first it was standalone, but they changed it because of all the backlash in the forums.

 

Soon, you will be able to hop between worlds, just like you do with caves.

[Silentdarkness1]

Maybe they figured it would've been best as a standalone at first, seeing as how it's a third-party company doing the initial legwork, not Klei.

[julz1981]

Also, tropical seasons and weather effects would not fit at all with the original dont starve, so its better to have them separate, that way we get different seasons with both worlds.

[Kror]

Also, tropical seasons and weather effects would not fit at all with the original dont starve, so its better to have them separate, that way we get different seasons with both worlds.

 

The "island expansion" would also not really work with the original don't starve. Slapping island besides the big main island is not really the greatest idea imo.

 

I have to agree with some of the "reskining" here, but there is already a lot of new things, even AI wise. On the other hand, it's just stupid to say "100% all new creature have to be totally new. Let's throw away all of the other AIs".

 

I think when the world generation and weather effects are complete/fixed/balanced out and the new bosses hit, it will be really cool. RoG was somewhat barren on ea release too. That feeling is much pushed by the incomplete character strings imo.

 

I think they also did not want to "just add more to the base game". There are already 4 seasons and simply throwing more things in there would make everything less noticable, less significant. So a standalone was kind of a good idea. Listening to the community and making it a complete new world accesibale from the old one was even better.

[SirBuizelton]

Listen, first of all and most importantly, the game is still in alpha.

 

Second, the "crappy reskins" you're talking about are actually few and far between in my opinion. I can barely even think of that many off the top of my head to be honest. Boarhouses, crabs, and... Monkeys I guess? But I actually felt like they were all put in for good reason and they're clever and enjoyable.

 

I mean cmon how can we have don't starve without some kind of pigs? As for crabs, they're not crappy reskins either, they actually work fairly differently. They don't run toward their hole when pursued and they burrow underground when frightened enough, like real sand crabs. It's cute and fun and new to me. 

 

The only thing that's actually the same is the beefalow, but even that mechanic is different now since you have to be in a boat to reach them and they're probably only here because some people might not like the idea of only having access to manure that is thrown at them. I dunno, maybe it's just me that feels this way. 

[CameoAppearance]

Maybe they figured it would've been best as a standalone at first, seeing as how it's a third-party company doing the initial legwork, not Klei.

 

I'm pretty sure it was literally intended as a standalone sequel game when it was first pitched, but then they changed their minds in part because people wanted to use both Reign of Giants and Shipwrecked at the same time. That's probably why a lot of the mobs are so similar to vanilla mobs.

 

I don't really see the problem with including some of the same mobs with cosmetic changes to suit the new environment. There's tons of new mobs, mainly in the sea, so it's not as if they only put in the monkeys or the pigs or the water beefalo because they ran out of ideas or wanted to cut corners. But you apparently don't like any of the new mobs, so I guess they don't count as far as you're concerned.

 

I sort of wonder why you claim to like Shipwrecked when you don't like the new mobs, the presence of old mobs, the new map layout, or the new seasons. What about it is fun for you, if you find so many aspects of it boring, tedious, and thematically out of place? I mean, that's the point where I'd tell someone to give up and go back to the main game, at least until Shipwrecked is actually finished.

[Kror]

Boarhouses, crabs, and... Monkeys I guess?

Though boars have different ai, same for crabs, same for monkeys (also just slighty).

 

I mean cmon how can we have don't starve without some kind of pigs?

Remember when people were going insane for summer in RoG? Because it wasn't 100% like winter but the other way around? (I feel they even made endo fire for thoose people-)

 

If there wouldn have been neutral mobs from holes you can trap or pigs you can befriend, people would have not been seeing don't starve here. There are many people who learned how to play DS a certain way and were happy like that. Cappy/Klei had to serve those people as well.

[SirBuizelton]

Though boars have different ai, same for crabs, same for monkeys (also just slighty).

Remember when people were going insane for summer in RoG? Because it wasn't 100% like winter but the other way around? (I feel they even made endo fire for thoose people-)

If there wouldn have been neutral mobs from holes you can trap or pigs you can befriend, people would have not been seeing don't starve here. There are many people who learned how to play DS a certain way and were happy like that. Cappy/Klei had to serve those people as well.

We are in agreement sir :3

[Hundkerchief]

To start off with, I have to say I'm having moderate fun with the new expansion.

[...]

Just my 5 cents.

 

I really don't know how Klei manage to cope with embittered and blasé players like you, honestly.

 

"Oh look, I can sail the barren ocean on this dull boat to meet uninspired creatures, what a boring game. *yawn* Having catcoons was much more original than sailing honestly".

 

Now I'm trying my hardest to respect your opinion, but it is of such bad faith to claim that SW is just a boring reskin when it is way more original and ballsy than RoG, I just can't stand it. 

[Talavaj]

I'm pretty sure it was literally intended as a standalone sequel game when it was first pitched, but then they changed their minds in part because people wanted to use both Reign of Giants and Shipwrecked at the same time. That's probably why a lot of the mobs are so similar to vanilla mobs.

 

I don't really see the problem with including some of the same mobs with cosmetic changes to suit the new environment. There's tons of new mobs, mainly in the sea, so it's not as if they only put in the monkeys or the pigs or the water beefalo because they ran out of ideas or wanted to cut corners. But you apparently don't like any of the new mobs, so I guess they don't count as far as you're concerned.

 

I sort of wonder why you claim to like Shipwrecked when you don't like the new mobs, the presence of old mobs, the new map layout, or the new seasons. What about it is fun for you, if you find so many aspects of it boring, tedious, and thematically out of place? I mean, that's the point where I'd tell someone to give up and go back to the main game, at least until Shipwrecked is actually finished.

The problem with reskinning old mobs is that instead of reskinning old mobs they could, you know keep the old mobs and maybe make some other mobs that would actually do something else ?

 

How about.. we just keep the rabbits and make crabs do something else ! WHOAH

Or how about we keep the Pig King and make Yaarctopus do something totally different ! WHOAH

Or how about we keep the Beefalo and just put something else in the mangroves !

Etc etc etc.

 

Yes they added a "ton" of new mobs, a bunch of reskins, a bunch of poisonous variants and a bunch of animals that drop nothing but meat or dead... versions of themselves.

 

I mean Beardling CRABS ?

I'm not even going to comment on that since it is obvious it was too hard for them to come up with a new interesting way to get beard from... so they just made the crabs grow fur, because... whatever they are "rabbits" anyway...

 

Maybe you are right, maybe I don't like Shipwrecked.

It is tedious, the art is lacking, it is uninspired, it is not clever the way DS was.

Maybe I think offloading the DLC onto a third party was a grave mistake ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

I really don't know how Klei manage to cope with embittered and blasé players like you, honestly.

Luckily they have hardcore apologists like you at least.

An alternate way to... walking, so ballsy and original.

[Codsworth]

nah it just adds a totally new world, with it's own counterparts, the own birds, koalefants, hounds, trees, treeguards, biomes, mobs pigs and etc. more characters and so on.

 

it is an totally new expericence for Don't starve, if you don't like you should just don't play it.

 

and fyi they will be puting the vanilla and the SW dlc together, the beta is like that so people can play and test it, you shouldn't be criticizing and game on early beta

 

- that was one heck of a typo -

[Talavaj]

you shouldn't be criticaticizing and game on early beta

 

But that is what beta is for.

 

[amsayy]

I like Shipwrecked. Call me lazy but it's nice having something different to play with. Add everything from shipwrecked into ROG and Vanilla and I'd become overwhelmed.

Call it The Sims Syndrome. Download a few expansions and next thing you know you've got a llama on your lawn with a time traveller and zombies attacking your plants and online features and they're wanting you to buy a hotel and and oh look a unicorn. It's all so much to handle and that's not even half the expansions they've got out.

To me, shipwrecked being standalone right now helps me utilize all the content without being overwhelmed with everything else DS has to offer. As for reskins, I don't understand why people whine. Are we not supposed to have grass or..? The only reskin I could complain about is the Ox mainly because I can't ever find them and it's a pain to boat to them.

I wouldn't let other people discredit your criticism though. Gotta hear it some way or another or a game will be left unfinished.

[Codsworth]

But that is what beta is for.

 

 

You are making critics to the game itself, that have nothing to do with "beta critics"

 

[YumoS]

I like shipwrecked. Of course you cant just throw basic mechanics away and find something new and fresh that was never done before. You have to make it somehow similar. But we are right now in early access and i think we should give them time to improve things and add new content. RoG wasnt a good dlc at the beginning in my opinion. But they made it really good.

[Hundkerchief]

Luckily they have hardcore apologists like you at least.

An alternate way to... walking, so ballsy and original.

 

It's really hard to respect you and to take you seriously you know. Claiming stuff like "oh yea fanboys here" to protect yourself against criticism is as efficient as covering your eyes with your emo-fringe irl.

[CameoAppearance]

The problem with reskinning old mobs is that instead of reskinning old mobs they could, you know keep the old mobs and maybe make some other mobs that would actually do something else ?

 

Wow, you mean like... ocean animals? There could be like a jellyfish that zaps you, that'd be so cool. Or maybe, like, other things in boats. Like, maybe there could be clockwork steamships, and they could shoot at you when you get too close! That'd be an amazing new enemy!

 

Oh wait, everything in the ocean is "boring and tedious" to you.

[QShadow]

Why not connect the vanilla and the SW world via the Underground.

Get in the Underground in Vanilla, travel through the caves and find another exit leading to the SW world.

[Talavaj]

It's really hard to respect you and to take you seriously you know. Claiming stuff like "oh yea fanboys here" to protect yourself against criticism is as efficient as covering your eyes with your emo-fringe irl.

 

Except you are the one who jumped into insults and name calling without actually providing any constructive criticism to my objectively written opinion on the current state of the expansion.

 

If you want to provide actual rebuttal to me pointing obvious flaws and poor game design then be my guest.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

I will give you an example of something like that here: (as a reaction to you claiming catcoons being less original than the latest expansion)

Catcoons a mob in RotG based on a mixture of a cat and a racoon.

This is good game design, as it is not only original in its design cleverly basing many of its mechanics (throwing up furballs and respawning 9 times) on its source material but it also provides the player with comic value, utility in the form of companionship, items and unique loot that can be used to craft.

 

Now an example of poor design,

Dogfish - it swims and it barks, it's like... a dog but a fish like catfish but that would be too obvious so... yeah

Does nothing, drops nothing but meat.

 

Wobster - it's a lobster, we can't really think of anything so let's just uh... call it a Wobster because all character names start with W or whatever...

Does nothing, drops nothing but meat.

 

Bottlenose Ballphin - It's a dolphin it drops... bottles cuz Bottlenose haha... get it ? But we made them drop all over the place anyway so... that's kinda useless too.

Oh yeah, and they drop the same meat as crabs cause whatever.

 

Crab - No really, it's a rabbit. But we couldn't think of anything to use them for so they are just meat, yeah and also they become Beardlings because uh, it's a rabbit.

 

Stink Ray - it's a ray and a skunk, eh well.

This one also doesn't drop anything except monster meat and an anti venom.. thingy which is kinda cool, but it is dropped by like 4 other things so... why did we make this again ?

 

There, now it is your turn to explain to me why it is acceptable to have FIVE mobs that are not only so thematically poor but add absolutely nothing to the existing gameplay experience in an expansion that is striving to do just the opposite of that.

We could compare these mobs to Frogs or Mosquitoes which also don't do anything much and aren't particularly exciting game design.

But even THOSE drop unique loot at the very least and have some basic thematic interaction with the gameworld.

 

What do dogfishes do ? Why do they exist ? Why do Stink Rays exist when I can get glands from a plethora of other sources and they don't provide any gameplay values whatsoever ?

 

Though I'm sure all these things are just placeholders (at least I hope so...) just voicing my opinion over the current quality of the content present in the game.

[Chomdax]

TBH, I like Shipwrecked as it is but I would really like a world with RoG and SW combined. Not like caves, mind you; completely, 100% integrated.

 

It's true some things might have to change, like the absolute abundance of.. resources in general that world would have, and similarities between things like crabs and rabbits. But it's honestly really, really simple to integrate this stuff, theoretically anyway. (I'm absolutely not saying the actual work would be easy.)

 

Seasons don't work? Autumn + Mild, Winter + Hurricane, Spring + Monsoon, Summer + Volcanic. Done. RoG's giants don't work at sea? Moosegoose swims, Dragonfly flies, Bearger doggy paddles and Deerclops uses his ice powers to just freeze the water underneath his feet. Problems with the big RoG island? Just have normal SW biomes, except they're more diverse because they have way more biomes to be composed of. Sea looks wrong? Just get rid of the RoG sea, it looks cool but it's not necessary.

 

Although I don't really see it happening, I feel a modified, but completely integrated SW+RoG would be the best Don't Starve Klei could offer.

[CameoAppearance]

Is your complaint really just that the ocean mobs don't drop interesting enough loot? Like, seriously, is that what you have a problem with? Because just calling them "boring", "tedious", and "uninspired" doesn't communicate why you don't like them. I might have actually agreed with you if you said on the first page that they need to have more variety of drops instead of totally dismissing them as game entities, because that's the main thing that makes the difference between a tallbird and a Guardian Pig in the vanilla game.

 

But, since this is still in Early Access, I have good news! There's every possibility that the aquatic mobs will get unique loot in later updates, or more complex behaviour, or both. Compare Reign of Giants: The Poison Birchnut Tree, for example, was only added in the second update and didn't get its Birchnutter minions until the fourth update. For that matter, RoG didn't even have any actual giants in it until the second update, unless you count the Deerclops.

 

Also I don't see why you think frogs are dull. They're not the only mob that gangs up on you, but their speed and ability to briefly stun the player when they attack (which, when three or more of them all attack you at once, turns into stunlocking you) make them uniquely threatening to fight head-on in a way that Spiders and Killer Bees aren't.