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[Feedback] It's too easy to not starve.


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There are a lot of things I could suggest -- like nerfing the crock pot, making it break down after a certain number of uses, making food structures harder to craft and keep up with -- but the fact remains it's just way too easy to not starve.

 

There's plenty of ways to "farm" food. Meat from werepigs, fishing if you're near a spider den and ponds, honey nuggets and honey ham are entirely too easy to cook, and getting a dragonpie farm going isn't too difficult either.

 

The only time you'll ever be in a situation where you'll starve after the first winter is if you leave the base for a long time without enough cooked foods in your inventory, and even then you can craft a crock pot on the go if there's a spider den nearby and you have berries and twigs.

 

What really kills players is monsters. Hounds, tentacles, bosses (of course), level 3 spider dens spreading across the map.

 

Sanity is also a big killer -- though it's easy to manage for some characters, for others it can be difficult and lead to death.

 

But hunger? Any veteran who knows what they're doing and doesn't get spawned into an absolutely terrible world can NOT STARVE.

 

The ground is littered with food that never spoils. Monster meat is entirely too easy to treat and make edible, and there's more than enough monsters to get meat from at all times. The only real unavoidable threats to your food sources are boss monsters. Almost every type of food is fully renewable so there's never any difficult decisions, you can just snarf down that raw ham if you really need to (even if you really really really want to take it home and turn it into honey ham before doing so). And even if all you have is a spider den, you can use spider glands and monster meat to stay alive and duke it out with the nightmare creatures if your sanity gets too low from that.

 

I think this honestly needs to be thought about and there needs to be a patch for DST and Vanilla Don't Starve that makes it a lot easier to actually starve. It's in the title of the game, for crying out loud.

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You forgot about birdcages, after building one you have unlimited eggs as long as you can get monster meat. Some traps + spider den + birdcage + crock pot = never starve. Its quite easy to gather enough grass for new traps, so you don't even need to fight with spiders.

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have you ever heard about mods ? sometimes they make the game easier , sometimes they make it harder.

 

Have you heard about working and balanced game, that is not empty and lame mod template?

 

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For a veteran player, it's hard to die. Sanity isn't that much of a big deal, nor food, nor mobs (they all basically act the same, have different speeds but the only way to hit you is if you go right under them, mactusk, bishops, and rooks excluded).

What keeps this game playable is the diversification and randomness. Also the interesting mechanics. It's really funny!

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For a veteran player, it's hard to die. Sanity isn't that much of a big deal, nor food, nor mobs (they all basically act the same, have different speeds but the only way to hit you is if you go right under them, mactusk, bishops, and rooks excluded).

What keeps this game playable is the diversification and randomness. Also the interesting mechanics. It's really funny!

 

Its hard to starve for new players either, unless they stand in place and ignore all the food that is around them.

 

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Its hard to starve for new players either, unless they stand in place and ignore all the food that is around them.

 

It's hard for them to starve when they have somebody, who knows the business, mass producing food.

 

But I have seen new players struggle with food.

For some people, the game is even harder in multiplayer, because the hunger rates of everybody add up.

 

Even Klei mentioned that they perceived that the game is harder in multiplayer.

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It's hard for them to starve when they have somebody, who knows the business, mass producing food.

 

But I have seen new players struggle with food.

For some people, the game is even harder in multiplayer, because the hunger rates of everybody add up.

 

Even Klei mentioned that they perceived that the game is harder in multiplayer.

They said it balance itsef cause there is more people to fed, but if you watch the stream they said that on, you will notice they have no idea how to use the crock pot, they were using 2 normal meats to make meatballs and so on. If you waste tons of food like thatm then it can be a liitle harder, but not to the point of starving, and if you know what you are doing, starvation is impossible.

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starvation is impossible.

 

Of course it's impossible. So it lets you do other stuff, like keep trucking through adventure mode or spelunking the caves.

 

Or do you want to make one egg per day per birdcage, one fruit per week per farm, destroy all hunger values from crock pot recipes up from 60 to 30, make food rot in two days max, make hunger drop from 150 to 0 in 1 day, make it so you have to be constantly mass producing food? Where you need a day 1000 base to produce enough food to last for a week?

 

While we are at it, lets put daily objectives and achievements. To make the MMO grinding more worthwhile.

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Of course it's impossible. So it lets you do other stuff, like keep trucking through adventure mode or spelunking the caves.

 

Or do you want to make one egg per day per birdcage, one fruit per week per farm, destroy all hunger values from crock pot recipes up from 60 to 30, make food rot in two days max, make hunger drop from 150 to 0 in 1 day, make it so you have to be constantly mass producing food? Where you need a day 1000 base to produce enough food to last for a week?

 

While we are at it, lets put daily objectives and achievements. To make the MMO grinding more worthwhile.

 

LOL

Like really?

I don't even...

Food should be harder to get, should have less healing in it. You think they don't want you to have food problems? Then why boter and add spoilage mechanics and other stuff like no bunnies in spring and so on.

They want you to have problems with food, otherwise there is no reason to keep spoilage and other food limiting mechanics in place.

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I don't really think food is supposed to be the thing that kills you, more the thing that motivates you to do things that will get you killed. Think about it, in early Don't Starve, before winter, what did we have that would kill you if you didn't leave your base? Hounds? Sure, maybe, if you didn't have decent weapons, but no, we had hunger. The base of this game is to not starve, everything you do in this game is towards that goal of having a permanent food-supply, and once you get that (and everything inbetween) the game becomes boring, because you've essentially beaten the game at that point.

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They want you to have problems with food, otherwise there is no reason to keep spoilage and other food limiting mechanics in place.

 

No, I am the one who doesn't even.

 

They want people to have troubles with food, but they don't want to make food a constant chore that limits your time. We can put thirst, we can put stamina, we can put a million things to make stuff more difficult, but it doesn't mean we should. Take Minecraft for example, hunger ruined the adventure mode for many people, because they wanted to explore caves and deserts, but they had to take a trillion cooked meat or else go back and forth to not starve. Because food is Minecraft IS a chore.

 

I understand the want of more things to conquer. I have more food than I need. But the only thing Klei has to do is add more world events to make the player take more risks, to take away his food processing time and make it into something else. To prepare for attacks, to explore other areas.

 

Some (6) people I asked told me that they didn't like the first days in don't starve. Because in order to explore and discover stuff, they had to get food. Before doing X or Y, get food. Always food. So they felt they had to reach the plateau of stability BEFORE doing other things. And Klei's philosophy is to just survive. Not you MUST get food. Survive. Different phrasing.

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No, I am the one who doesn't even.

 

They want people to have troubles with food, but they don't want to make food a constant chore that limits your time. We can put thirst, we can put stamina, we can put a million things to make stuff more difficult, but it doesn't mean we should. Take Minecraft for example, hunger ruined the adventure mode for many people, because they wanted to explore caves and deserts, but they had to take a trillion cooked meat or else go back and forth to not starve. Because food is Minecraft IS a chore.

 

I understand the want of more things to conquer. I have more food than I need. But the only thing Klei has to do is add more world events to make the player take more risks, to take away his food processing time and make it into something else. To prepare for attacks, to explore other areas.

 

Some (6) people I asked told me that they didn't like the first days in don't starve. Because in order to explore and discover stuff, they had to get food. Before doing X or Y, get food. Always food. So they felt they had to reach the plateau of stability BEFORE doing other things. And Klei's philosophy is to just survive. Not you MUST get food. Survive. Different phrasing.

 

And they get food by exploring. LOL.

Go back to your cave.

 

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Peace, people! :-)

 

Problem isn't the time-to-food balance. Increase it and newbies won't live through a single season, decrease and seasoned players won't get any challenge. What DS and DST lack is a sense of purpose (i.e. a goal different from just 'don't starve') and a gradually increasing game difficulty: once you survive through a single year the world get's boring.

 

There should be a subsystem that keeps the game difficulty gradually increasing based on how much player owns in terms of structures and stuff and also giving the sense of purpose. Here is a concept I put together, would love to hear your feedback! http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/52967-making-the-game-harder-disasters-and-rituals/

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Every single year that goes past should make the game get harder and harder. The game is after all called dont starve for a reason.

For instance after

1st Year

Hound waves should add 1 or 2 hounds more or double

There should be diseases for crops that start to develop - spring/autumn

2nd year

Same as after first year

Earthquakes happen every so often that destroy buildings like 1 every season

3rd year

Same as first year

Insanity levels double

Rain all seasons

Acid rain? - could be rare. Would have to go down to caves for a few days when they are implemented ofc

5th year

Hound master.- leashes you . has a lot of health but doesn't hit that hard . He spawns in hounds until you kill him

Tornadoes - if you got sucked up you'd lose almost all your health and be knocked out to somewhere else on the map

I guess through the ages would be something this would be implemented into.

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I really like your suggestions, Arkangel017. Especially these ones:

Earthquakes happen every so often that destroy buildings like 1 every season 

There should be diseases for crops that start to develop - spring/autumn 

Tornadoes - if you got sucked up you'd lose almost all your health and be knocked out to somewhere else on the map

 

I called them "disasters" (see the link in my post above) and their intensity and frequency increases over time so that the world becomes more and more hostile and is falling apart to stay in. So player should hurry up and find a way out of the world by means of proposed "rituals" for instance (again, see the link in my post above).

 

I wonder if current modding API allows to implement some or all of these things.

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It doesn't work like that. The problem is prosperity state in DS and in DST can be achieved way to fast, first part of that happens as soon as you build fire pit and the crock pot, while you can live on berries for eternity, its not a good idea, you will waste much time gathering, planting, fertilizing.

Toxic monster meat can be used to fill one slot in the crock pot, filling 3 other slots is easy - berries, farms, traps, honey, ice. 

Ice is quite a problem at later stages of the game, you only need it to build ice flings and maybe some more if you are using ice hat - but I stopped using ice hat, cause thermal stone + endothermic fires are much better. So all ice I can gather, and that is a lot of ice, can go to crock pot along with monster meat - while meatballs are not the best food its good enough.

Next part would be tooth traps, those things are so OP, with one field of them you don't need to fight with hounds or giants anymore, if the attack happens while you are away from your trap field just lead the giant there, with the default hound attacks you will have much more tooth to make few fields near the areas of the world you visit frequently.

And what area you need to visit frequently? The only area you need to visit are swamps, and that is only if you want reeds, you can live without reeds, but I like to have some blow darts saved for that Dragonfly.

 

So disasters won't solve anything. While forcing player out of his base is good idea, I want something that would cause player to move more around the world after it is explored, periodic items and monsters/animals, plants that grow only on certain areas just like we have reeds for swamps, we should have other points of interest in other biomes, and more events, world around player should change, new monsters should appear in place for the one you killed, look at the chess pieces, once you kill them its over, you won't see them ever again, all you have is hounds spam. Other parts of the world are not used at all.

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Thanks for your constructive feedback. Let me address some of the key points as I think your first impression on disasters concept is way too pessimistic.

Disasters are Fun. They add challenge and randomness hence improving replayability. Believe it or not but having half of your base destroyed on a cloudy spring morning year 5 by nasty earthquake in a couple of days followed by all berry bushes patch in the area dying of a sudden desease or some other random **** happening will certainly make your bottom move or consider to relocate your base completely (since some disasters are base centered)

But I got you. You want some challenge. What about an extra long Eclipse turning 3 days in a row into nights? And on your last dying torch you run into a pack of wandering hounds that start chasing you?

I think super skilled veteran could survive even that but you never know what happens when and where.

> I want something that would cause player to move more around the world after it is explored.

I think this is a very good point. And a system of rituals (see the link to my post) hopes to address that as well. For instance you could be given a task to collect 15 fish. You start thinking what to do. Maybe you catch them in a pond after killing few frogs. Or pick up a fight with pigs and merms in a swamp.

It's up to you but you'll have to think, plan and use the world intensively even after it's explored to get these items.

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I agree with some thought here. Don't starve is not about not starving. It's about survival. Food mechanics is there to make you move and acquire wealth in terms of gears, tools and structures that frees you time and makes you better prepared for monster attacks and climate change. Once you get used to the food mechanics what kills you are attempts to gain more wealth.

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I'm a new player and failed many times surviving because I simply didn't know that certain features even existed. There is so much being thrown at you in this game at one giving time and it's too much to take in. After a few attempts and hours of wiki readings, the game is getting easier to survive. Some things can be improved though, because sometimes it’s a little too absurdly easy. A perfect example of this is finding out that I can use ice as a filler to make meatballs, that’s just a little overkill. With that it actually feels like it’s easier to survive in winter than in autumn.

However you do need to realize that once you master surviving, you should be able to survive indefinitely. If you weren’t able to, than that would just take away from the game. The only way to remedy this in a fair way is to add more randomness. As for increased difficulty, play some PvP. Another thing that I can think of is the addition of thirst. It would be another thing we would have to maintain as we balance our other requirements. I’m actually surprised why thirst hasn’t been added yet.

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Thanks for your constructive feedback. Let me address some of the key points as I think your first impression on disasters concept is way too pessimistic.

Disasters are Fun. They add challenge and randomness hence improving replayability. Believe it or not but having half of your base destroyed on a cloudy spring morning year 5 by nasty earthquake in a couple of days followed by all berry bushes patch in the area dying of a sudden desease or some other random **** happening will certainly make your bottom move or consider to relocate your base completely (since some disasters are base centered)

But I got you. You want some challenge. What about an extra long Eclipse turning 3 days in a row into nights? And on your last dying torch you run into a pack of wandering hounds that start chasing you?

I think super skilled veteran could survive even that but you never know what happens when and where.

> I want something that would cause player to move more around the world after it is explored.

I think this is a very good point. And a system of rituals (see the link to my post) hopes to address that as well. For instance you could be given a task to collect 15 fish. You start thinking what to do. Maybe you catch them in a pond after killing few frogs. Or pick up a fight with pigs and merms in a swamp.

It's up to you but you'll have to think, plan and use the world intensively even after it's explored to get these items.

I like the idea of being forced to move. Maybe blight? As in, after the first year your base could be randomly struck with blight making the food structures unusable and all crops wither and must be moved. Blight with dissappear after a few seasons, or maybe it would be ended by a specific season.

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