The new artifact vault is terrible

[Exophthalmos]

I'm sorry, but, a vault with 6 cultural artifacts all individually locked behind firewalls..... this is dreadful.

 

1. If you recover all 6 artifacts, you still make less money than an old vault.

2. You have to crack 6 separate firewalls of varying toughness. This would have been okay with old parasite, it is not okay now. Guess I'll stand in the vault for 5 turns waiting for the power to loot the vault and than wait in the elevator putting off escaping for 4 turns so I can start the next mission with some power.

3. This takes 6 inventory spaces.....6.

 

Why do you do this to me Klei, after I've shown you nothing but loyalty. Sniff. 

 

/rant

 

Exo

 

P.S Still love the game, fix the instant shooting guards, and keep up the good work!

[Shirsh]

"Bad day, huh? Troubles on the work? No one there can remember in which safe should be your site map, each day you lost from one to three prisoners and new medama drones completely ate your lunch money? After lunch an crazy bastard stun you and scan your brain?
After hard day at office, only your most lovely pieces of art can cheer you up but you forget keys at other pants and six firewalls separate you from deserved cultural pleasure?
     Sertified Data Blast program really could be useful, buy today, save your energy!
             Available at your local server farm since 2074!"

[Yarrr]

I don't mind them too much anymore. I just don't try to take them all unless I have 3 agents minimum. Can usually get away with 4 Artifacts with 2 agents and have some extra inventory space to boot for future missions. Data Blast is really good, but Rapier with aggressive exploration works fine as well. Parasite 2.0 is awesome as well of course.

Just watch out in later missions. I once had a Vault with a Daemon on every artifact locker. That was not very fun

[Exophthalmos]

Data blast is just bad though. I like the idea of it, but 4 power per firewall.......it would be 10 times more useful at 1 less range and 1 less power.

 

In perfect scenarios it is great, in most scenarios it is okay at best. In the rest of the scenarios it is terrible. In the scenarios I have encountered personally it would have been bad every time but 1, and just okay for that one. Also is it just me or is it quite rare.....I've only seen it once.

 

I do appreciate the tongue and cheek of your response though.

 

Exo

 

This was directed at Shirsh....I was typing it when Yarr responded.

[Yarrr]

Data blast is just bad though. I like the idea of it, but 4 power per firewall.......it would be 10 times more useful at 1 less range and 1 less power

But it costs 3 Power already.

[Exophthalmos]

I don't mind them too much anymore. I just don't try to take them all unless I have 3 agents minimum. Can usually get away with 4 Artifacts with 2 agents and have some extra inventory space to boot for future missions. Data Blast is really good, but Rapier with aggressive exploration works fine as well. Parasite 2.0 is awesome as well of course.

Just watch out in later missions. I once had a Vault with a Daemon on every artifact locker. That was not very fun

 

A lot of my frustration of it comes from just how much worse it is than the other vault. If you thought the other vault was too strong, nerf the amount of money it gives, don't make me lug 6 of those bloody urns around the map.

 

I've also had barely any detention center missions show up at all lately and when they do it is just a prisoner. My last 10 day run was 2 agents, as was my last story more play. Where have all the captured agents gone?

 

That daemon artifact vault sounds rough heh. I think I'd just hang my head in defeat and book it for the elevator.

[Exophthalmos]

But it costs 3 Power already.

 

Are you sure? I was literally just in a game and it cost 4. I could be mistaken but I was staring at the program for a long time saying "why are you so bad?".

[HolyDeath]

You can use an EMP device. It shuts down firewalls, so you can take at least some relics before field will go back online.

 

I don't mind the Vault in its current stance. Although I think there should be more money when you manage to break into the deposit boxes, so you can get some hard currency without having to carry all the artifacts with you.

[DrMeat]

Too many additional artifacts in safes is a real frustration. Cost more time, power, and much more risk.

But this do let me rethink on my inventory arrangement for each agents...I used to have one slot empty for each agent, but now i really need to cut down my equipment and leave 2 slots empty for the agents while still remain maxmium efficiency.

 

First round after the update, starting with Rapier and Fusion, Vault is my fist mission...I finally endded up with alert level 6+++.... and still try to get the other three artifacts from the safe with 4 firewalls each and daemons...that's when I realized cost for Rapier keep increasing even after 6 which finally gets to cost 12 power to break one firewall before i finally give up...with two more safe left...

[the truthseeker]

At least make the bloody artifacts STACKABLE then! 

[ildarz]

Well, if you don't have proper tools then you usually can get 2-3 artifacts and run away safely, or you can risk and wait to get them all. It's entirely up to you, nobody stays with gun at you head and says "You MUST take all!". Yes, usually I hate to leave goodies in the field, but it's better than botched mission. But if you have Parasite 2.0, some Buster chips or EMP then it's not a problem to open all cases.

[HolyDeath]

At least make the bloody artifacts STACKABLE then! 

 

You can't eat your cake and have it. If you're making certain objects stackable, then why not make ammo stackable as well? Or medgels?

[jimwinsor]

Bottom line, in addition to the passcode needed for safety deposit boxes, Vault missions have gone from one of the best missions to one of the worst.

[ildarz]

Bottom line, in addition to the passcode needed for safety deposit boxes, Vault missions have gone from one of the best missions to one of the worst.

 

I disagree. Previous Vaults were practically no-brainers - you see the Vault nearby and you go for it immediately. Now you need to think twice - do you have the passcode, do you have tools for fast hacking, do you have enough space in the inventory? And if you are prepared, new Vault gives you more than old one. Maybe it requires some tuning, but overall it's a good change in my opinion - if you have some mission with potentially massive profit, you need to prepare to it instead of taken it blindly.

[Exophthalmos]

Previous vaults did need tweaking. This is certainly an over nerf though in my opinion. A middle ground should be found. I will throw out a possibility as a place to start and see what is thought about it.

 

I propose that the non pass code mission vault has 4 cultural artifacts (shudder) and 2 cash boxes. The artifacts and cash boxes are linked in pairs to 3 unlocking computers akin to the previous cash box unlock vault mechanism. A laser beam goes down the middle, splitting each linked pair. In this setup you have 4 total firewall sites to deal with if you want the entire vaults contents. Should you empty the vault you will receive essentially the same amount of cash yet only use up 4 total inventory spots instead of 6. Thoughts?

 

Does anyone think that the vault pass code misson is actually worth it? In my experience the extra vault room is never worth wasting a previous mission on it; unless of course my previous missions are all terrible.

[Yarrr]

I've also had barely any detention center missions show up at all lately and when they do it is just a prisoner. My last 10 day run was 2 agents, as was my last story more play. Where have all the captured agents gone?

My game apparently, 3 out of 3 for me since the last build. Out of 1 out of 15 for the previous 2 builds combined, more or less. Might even be 1 out of 20.

 

As for Data Blast energy cost, you're now making me doubt myself, but I'm fairly sure it was 3. Was good fun when I picked it up and had a Sankaku mission after, so many things to hack

[Exophthalmos]

At least make the bloody artifacts STACKABLE then! 

 

I am picturing Deckard balancing 6 urns on top of each other while stumbling cloaked through a room of guards. One urn drops to the floor in his hurry and shatters in a less than quiet way. All the guards quickly turn to the source of the disturbance finding absolutely nothing. With a few shrugs and quizzical looks they return to their conversation on the erratic behavior of the camera drones. More than one guard returns home that night wondering if his workplace is haunted.

 

All in a days work for the elite agents of Invisible Inc.

[ildarz]

Does anyone think that the vault pass code misson is actually worth it? In my experience the extra vault room is never worth wasting a previous mission on it; unless of course my previous missions are all terrible.

 

I think it's all pure luck-based. There are several different Vault layouts, and locked treasure can be different. Results of missions which you can take instead of Chief Executive terminal can also vary.

 

As I understand, in general there are 4 points of interest in the locked room, there can be artifacts or money boxes. I don't remember how much money it gives exactly, but let say it is 600-1000 and potentially some reputation.

 

Now lets compare this with other mission you can take instead of running for Vault key.

 

Security Dispatch - gives you free item which may or may not be good for you. If it is good, it's more profitable than vault key, if not, it's worse (you can sell item but it'll give you less money and no reputation).

 

Nanofab Terminal - no addition profit.

 

Server farm - same as above.

 

Detention Center - if you get prisoner then it's very close in terms of money, and if you get an agent... well, it's depend on situation and your playstyle - priceless if you need that agent and waste of time if you don't.

 

So, going for vault key is still the most reliable way to raise you money and reputation. You can prefer other missions if you have some specific needs (programs, items or agents), but there is no better way in terms of pure money/reputation grinding.

 

But there is another factor - travel time. If we take this into account then things become much more complicated. For example, even before last patch in Story mode it was more profitable to take ANY two 6-hours missions instead of 12-hours Vault mission. Now for full profit we must complete two-missions chain in strict order, and BOTH missions should be in close range from our location at some stage of game. And since all of this is randomly generated, there are not many situations where this chain is really profitable. 

 

This problem can be solved in two ways - raise the income from Vault's locked room (thus raise the probability that missions chain will be profitable), or just spawn new Vault nearby when we successfully complete Chief Executive terminal mission. Surely the Chief executive should know from which vault his key is, isn't it?

[Sirouhei]

I enjoy the new vaults, they force you to make choices and think about what you're doing. I do wish there was some alternate way of getting into the locked door, but I'm sure Klei is working on that.

 

What I would really have liked is for both vault models to be available. Like, walking in the mission you don't know wether your vault is going to be full of cash or full of artifacts. That'd make the game a bit more impredictable and force you to rethink your strategy on the spot.

[jamesl]

I agree, to be honest. We're going to tune it to keep it different and artifact focused but a bit more tolerable if you don't have money for inventory space. 

 

What I would really have liked is for both vault models to be available. Like, walking in the mission you don't know wether your vault is going to be full of cash or full of artifacts. That'd make the game a bit more impredictable and force you to rethink your strategy on the spot.

 

This actually should be the case right now! You should be randomly getting some of the original type of Vault and some of this one. 

[Antipants]

 

I agree, to be honest. We're going to tune it to keep it different and artifact focused but a bit more tolerable if you don't have money for inventory space. 

 

 

 

 

This actually should be the case right now! You should be randomly getting some of the original type of Vault and some of this one. 

 

 

 

I don't know about other players, but since the most recent update I have only been getting the new vault layout, both in story and endless mode.

 

I like the new vault, and having the Chief Executive missions to get the most out of them, but I would still like to see the old, simple vault every now and then. Of course, this just might be my luck with randomisation.

[brotheroflink]

I don't know about other players, but since the most recent update I have only been getting the new vault layout, both in story and endless mode.

 

 

The first vault I got in this update was more or less old-style. I think it had two artefacts and two cash deposits in the outer room, and I didn't have an executive key, so I assume it would be the same (or better) on the other side.

 

If you mean that some vaults shouldn't have the extra door and be the cash farm they used to be, I disagree. They are too easy cash that way making it too luck-based if it's randomised.

[Sunswords]

Actually I did find the new vault layout a little odd - I needed a CEO's key to access the cash vault, while the precious artifacts were outside in a less secure location.

 

Needless to say, my OCD nature kicked in and I started to *Painfully* discard some inventory items. I carried off all 6 artifacts with me. I think 6 pieces is a little too much, and perhaps you could put the majority of the vault loot inside the secured section with together with the cash

[Antipants]

The first vault I got in this update was more or less old-style. I think it had two artefacts and two cash deposits in the outer room, and I didn't have an executive key, so I assume it would be the same (or better) on the other side.

 

If you mean that some vaults shouldn't have the extra door and be the cash farm they used to be, I disagree. They are too easy cash that way making it too luck-based if it's randomised.

 

 

Pardon? No, I was just saying that I haven't seen the old vault layout since the update. I said I like the new vault layout, and the Chief Executive missions that allow me to get the most out of the new vault, but I would also randomly like to see the old vault layout every now and then.

 

I wouldn't expect it to be as profitable as the new vault layout, just randomised regarding what you might encounter on any given run. 

[Inkar]

At least make the bloody artifacts STACKABLE then! 

 

Good idea. I was going to suggest this myself