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Ixmore

A Challenge Replacement for Caves

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Ixmore    19

Note: I know this topic has been done to death, but just hear me out. Also, the fact that I wrote this means it's my opinion. Feedback and Criticisms would be appreciated.


 


          It was a bad move by the guys at Klei Entertainment to add weather to the caves. While It's understandable that they wanted to prevent players from hiding out in the caves during the more challenging seasons, it provides an unreasonable challenge to the caves and was just plain laziness on their part. Criticism aside, the following would be more reasonable challenge for the caves without having to add new content to it.


 


          First off, remove trees, grass tufts, and saplings from the caves and make them unable to grow there. This will force players to climb back up and endure the elements of the surface in order to collect resources from these objects.


 


          Second, to stop players from stacking these items in caves, make, logs, planks, twigs, and cut grass perishable. Wood molds up and cut grass eventually wilts away.


 


          Finally, reduce the fuel value for all resources save for logs and uprooted plants and exclude turfs as a fuel source. This would make it harder for players should they choose alternative fuel sources such as guano and manure and would prevent players from getting around the parish time of logs grass and twigs by mass creating rolls and armor.


 


          Until the folks at Klei decide to do an expansion for the caves, this would be the best option.


 


On an unrelated note, when can we expect Reign of Giants dialog for the other characters?


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scize    50

well its not laziness. (thats kinda disrespectful) but the dlc wasn't about caves. the devs had enough work to do with the over world. but they did add some insulation values to the caves, like not overheating as fast or not freezing as fast.

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Ixmore    19

well its not laziness. (thats kinda disrespectful) but the dlc wasn't about caves. the devs had enough work to do with the over world. but they did add some insulation values to the caves, like not overheating as fast or not freezing as fast.

 

I'd admit I was harsh with the opening paragraph (My apologies to the devs if you guys were offended or insulted) and I know they weren't working on the caves. But from what I understood, the Developers didn't want players hiding in the caves during winter anymore and I merely was sharing what I felt was a better way to do it.

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scize    50

no worries friend. wasn't bashing you or nothing. and great ideas. everyone knows the caves need some more work but i guess thats coming later. 

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Ixmore    19

I just saw you as criticizing my actions rather than bashing me. Anyway back on topic,

 

Another thing that could be done (this could be applied to a mod or any future expansions) is have the caves stuck in a season permanently like what was done in Rune Factory: A Fantasy Harvest Moon.

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BipedalBear    107

Real men don't hide in caves, they go in the ruins, fight imaginary monsters and open up magical chests. 

One way to surely drive people off caves are more fissure cracks. Need more fissure cracks

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UnderwearApp    175

I disagree, caves are not even close to an unreasonable challenge now, and this is speaking from caves and ruins before they nerfed weather in caves. It is harder sure, and I am all for you having an option in world settings, but don't ask for it to be removed completely.

 

Also most of your suggestions will make the overworld considerably more challenging while only adding a minor challenge to the caves. I could still live down there and visit the surface for a few days every couple of weeks.

 

It would make the caves too appealing.

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NeoDeusMachina    778

I am sincerrely sorry but I must admit I disagree with everything that was mentionned in the original post. Weather in caves is far from being an unreasonable challenge. It is even much easier now that they gave an additional heat/cold insulation when in caves (see last last update).

 

As for the suggestions, removing the items you suggested from the caves would just make them more boring and with even less diversity (less biomes, less ressources, etc). These ressources are not too abundant in the first place. I guess if some people don't like them in caves there could be a world configuration option to remove them. Making the ''bio'' fuel perishable would just cross a line that I think is really unecessary and as was mentionned previously, would just make things even harder on the surface, without bringing anything more to the gameplay. Caves will not be harder to explore, they will just require more times because you will need to go back to the surface more frequently. I do not personnaly tend to depend on wood/grass/twigs when I go underground, a miner's hat + some light bulbs that respawn usually give me all the light I need. If I really need a stable fire somewhere, there is always the firepit and guano everywhere to fuel it. Lowering the fuel value of these ressources, again, would just make it more painful for the surface as well, and I don't think that is what you really aim for.

 

Overall, I don't believe that any of the suggestions made would improve the gameplay, neither on the surface, nor in the caves. It would not make it more challenging, just more boring. I am unsure why you would prefer dealing with what you mentionned over bringing a heat stone + a puffy vest with you in the caves during winter, a raincoat during spring, or an icecube during summer ? You can even build a small camp down there and store the seasonal equipment you need to make your journey less painful. If you really don't want to deal with seasons in caves you could also wait for autumn and call it your cave exploring season !

 

I didn't mean to be rude or disrespectful of you and your ideas, I just wanted to give my opinion on the matter =)

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Ixmore    19

I am sincerely sorry but I must admit I disagree with everything that was mentionned in the original post.

 

There's no need to apologize; your merely giving your feedback.

 

...And wow, you convinced me otherwise. However, I still have to disagree with you on certain things.

 

And the idea when I posted this was to prevent players from staying down there indefinitely

 

These ressources are not too abundant in the first place. I guess if some people don't like them in caves there could be a world configuration option to remove them. Making the ''bio'' fuel perishable would just cross a line that I think is really unecessary and as was mentionned previously

 

They may not be abundant but they're renewable and with the case of logs can be mass planted. Also I may of stated that they should be perishable, but I never stated how long it would take to parish

 

 

(1)I do not personnaly tend to depend on wood/grass/twigs when I go underground, a miner's hat + some light bulbs that respawn usually give me all the light I need. (2)If I really need a stable fire somewhere, there is always the firepit and guano everywhere to fuel it.(3) Lowering the fuel value of these ressources, again, would just make it more painful for the surface as well, and I don't think that is what you really aim for.

 

1. true but eventually need to cook and keep warm/cool/dry. The biggest problem in caves the you have to deal with is food, and sanity. than again there is jerky for both

 

2. which is exactly why I propose lowering the fuel value for these items.

 

3. your right that not what I'm aiming for but I have to disagree with making it more painful on the surface as well

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NeoDeusMachina    778

There's no need to apologize; your merely giving your feedback.

 

...And wow, you convinced me otherwise. However, I still have to disagree with you on certain things.

 

And the idea when I posted this was to prevent players from staying down there indefinitely

 

 

They may not be abundant but they're renewable and with the case of logs can be mass planted. Also I may of stated that they should be perishable, but I never stated how long it would take to parish

 

 

 

1. true but eventually need to cook and keep warm/cool/dry. The biggest problem in caves the you have to deal with is food, and sanity. than again there is jerky for both

 

2. which is exactly why I propose lowering the fuel value for these items.

 

3. your right that not what I'm aiming for but I have to disagree with making it more painful on the surface as well

 

Well to be honest with you, I think if someone manages to stay down there indefinitely, he really deserves it considering all he has to deal with already: food, sanity, permanent darkness, limited (but some renewable) ressources, weather, etc. I think in the long run, anybody will have to go on the surface to get some ressources that can only be acquired there (best example I can come with are hound teeth that you WILL need if you want to repair all your seasonal/sanity equipment). In fact, I think I might even try to make a base down there and see how viable it is given what we have right now =P

 

What I meant by making it more painful on the surface is that if fuel had a perish time and it had a lower fuel value (except logs, as you suggested), then even on the surface you will have to gather more fuel than you need right now. I never run on logs only, but if other fuel sources are too low (like grass or twigs are at the moment), then only log will become viable. It will force you to gather more logs than right now (which will have a perish time, even if it's long), meaning more treeguards, etc. I like fighting the occasional treeguard, they are pretty easy to deal with (at some point living logs even become fuel because you have so many), but they are just long to kill and such a loss of time, even more so when 3 spawn at the same time =) I hope this illustrate better what I meant xD

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brummbar7    513

Second, to stop players from stacking these items in caves, make, logs, planks, twigs, and cut grass perishable. Wood molds up and cut grass eventually wilts away.Finally, reduce the fuel value for all resources save for logs and uprooted plants and exclude turfs as a fuel source. This would make it harder for players should they choose alternative fuel sources such as guano and manure and would prevent players from getting around the parish time of logs grass and twigs by mass creating rolls and armor.

Frankly I'd much rather deal with weather than any of these things.  And that was when I thought you were suggesting they would just apply underground.  Whole world? No thanks. 

 

You really want a low-overhead challenge added to caves that's not weather, just use existing mechanics like shadow fissures.  Or maybe make falling rocks and minerals act like hammer blows to structures.  That would definitely make basing down there more difficult, without compromising the rest of the world.

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