Webber suggestions and balance

[joulesFect]

Hi ! Love the new update !

 

I made a post on some thread but decided to make a suggestions thread out of it since I'm concerned about the subject and brought a few ideas to the table.

 

I'm not sure if I like Webber at the moment. I've been playing as him for quite a few days.

 

His beard ability is trivial except if it protects from the cold (I'm not sure about that). Getting silk is soo easy that it's not really an issue. I mean common, 6 silk every 16 days ? Useless...

 

His ability to eat monster meat without loosing health is also trivial because since you still loose sanity and he has a really low sanity, there is no good reason to eat monster meat except if you are starving, which is basicly the same as any other caracter.

 

Finally, his "big" advantage is the fact that he can raise a spider army, which is awsome. But the spiders eat all of you're meat and it makes it really hard to get food which is not cool. It's also really hard to befriend spiders since you can only do it at night. It's also really wierd that you can hit a spider's nest, all of the spiders will attack you but you can give a meat to one of them and then all of them will get on you're side. Why can't I just order them to get out of there to befriend them ? I'd like to be able to befriend yellow spiders more easily and raise a huge yellow spider army.

 

Finally, pigs aggro you at like the edge of the screen and will almost pursue you to their deaths. I died on the first day spawning next to two pigs... Also, pigs can help you farm wood so much faster and it is bad that you don't get that bonus when playing as webber... Overall, my thought is just that if spiders are not as good followers as pigs or rabbits, why the hell would you want to play as webber in the first place ? It's also a lot harder to get pig skins that are a valuable ressource for spring (umbrella and piggybackpack).

 

The fact that spiders attack chester and gloomer is also ridiculous. It would be an OK debuff if spiders were even more usefull and could aid you in doing tasks or anything, but as it stands now, it's just a pain.

 

I'd suggest to either have following spiders not attack gloomer and chester and not eat meat on the ground or give you a small delay to pick it up. Another option would be to leave it as is but make spiders generally more usefull when playing as webber like allow them to slowly help you mine trees and rocks. Maybe as webber you could also befriend spider queen by giving them like 10 spider glans. Or make spiders drop special materials when you feed them. Maybe you could even have the ability to hide in a spider den and if it gets attacked all of the spiders would attack your enemy.

 

Finally, the fact the spiders and spider queens are neutrals is barely a bonus. They are by far the easiest monsters/boss in the game.

 

I just wish his special ability to have spiders follow you around had something special to it and more usefull. I want to like him but I really don't know if I will because every cool ability he brings to the table, seems to letdown something I dearly enjoy in the game. To make matters worse, anybody can "mimic" his special ability with a spider queen hat...

 

I understand that he was just introduced and that this is just Beta and that's why I made the tread in the first place, I would like to see him change !

 

Thanks !

[An Artifact]

I honestly have to agree on a few of these points. Due to the sanity reduction, you will still shy away from eating monster meat, which is a pretty weird design choice. I initially thought that this would balance out because spiders would have a sanity aura, but it turned out they didn't.

 

Spiders, although you can make a bunch of them follow you at once, aren't the greatest followers since they'll eat all the meat INStANTLY. At least pigs take a few moments to realize that there's an extremely valuable deerclops eyeball on the ground and that it would be a great idea to gobble it up. So spiders are no good for farming anything that you plan on eating.

 

It IS a nice and stylish bonus that seeing a rocky biome filled with spider nests makes you instantly feel comforted. I just wish there would've been more done with the whole spider deal. For instance, I thought Webber would have night vision and instead impaled vision during the day, or maybe even big sanity drains from just being out in the sunlight. Having him be just like any other character with the day/night business makes his spider army feature very awkward to use, since spiders are in bed at day.

 

I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but I would love it if we could have a more spider-like character. I know that there is technically a human inside, but still. I understand that sleeping in spider dens would be pretty op, so I won't suggest it, but nightvision, sanity reduction and impaled vision during the day? Pwease. If you think that nightvision would be too op in the caves (Willow can already pretty much do the same down there anyway), I would say Webber's low stats and the instant agressions of the bunnymen would balance that out.

[MrMushroomy]

I honestly have to agree on a few of these points. Due to the sanity reduction, you will still shy away from eating monster meat, which is a pretty weird design choice. I initially thought that this would balance out because spiders would have a sanity aura, but it turned out they didn't.

 

Spiders, although you can make a bunch of them follow you at once, aren't the greatest followers since they'll eat all the meat INStANTLY. At least pigs take a few moments to realize that there's an extremely valuable deerclops eyeball on the ground and that it would be a great idea to gobble it up. So spiders are no good for farming anything that you plan on eating.

 

It IS a nice and stylish bonus that seeing a rocky biome filled with spider nests makes you instantly feel comforted. I just wish there would've been more done with the whole spider deal. For instance, I thought Webber would have night vision and instead impaled vision during the day, or maybe even big sanity drains from just being out in the sunlight. Having him be just like any other character with the day/night business makes his spider army feature very awkward to use, since spiders are in bed at day.

 

I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but I would love it if we could have a more spider-like character. I know that there is technically a human inside, but still. I understand that sleeping in spider dens would be pretty op, so I won't suggest it, but nightvision, sanity reduction and impaled vision during the day? Pwease. If you think that nightvision would be too op in the caves (Willow can already pretty much do the same down there anyway), I would say Webber's low stats and the instant agressions of the bunnymen would balance that out.

I think he should be able to sleep in the day, rather than night. Also, night vision would be great, and makes sense.

[joulesFect]

I honestly have to agree on a few of these points. Due to the sanity reduction, you will still shy away from eating monster meat, which is a pretty weird design choice. I initially thought that this would balance out because spiders would have a sanity aura, but it turned out they didn't.

 

Spiders, although you can make a bunch of them follow you at once, aren't the greatest followers since they'll eat all the meat INStANTLY. At least pigs take a few moments to realize that there's an extremely valuable deerclops eyeball on the ground and that it would be a great idea to gobble it up. So spiders are no good for farming anything that you plan on eating.

 

It IS a nice and stylish bonus that seeing a rocky biome filled with spider nests makes you instantly feel comforted. I just wish there would've been more done with the whole spider deal. For instance, I thought Webber would have night vision and instead impaled vision during the day, or maybe even big sanity drains from just being out in the sunlight. Having him be just like any other character with the day/night business makes his spider army feature very awkward to use, since spiders are in bed at day.

 

I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but I would love it if we could have a more spider-like character. I know that there is technically a human inside, but still. I understand that sleeping in spider dens would be pretty op, so I won't suggest it, but nightvision, sanity reduction and impaled vision during the day? Pwease. If you think that nightvision would be too op in the caves (Willow can already pretty much do the same down there anyway), I would say Webber's low stats and the instant agressions of the bunnymen would balance that out.

 

Exactly, so many of his perks are so unbalanced and unlogical that, to me, he feels like he's been rushed in the update without much thought on how you have to play when using that caracter. I really thought he would have a unique feel and unique/balanced abilities. It's a shame because they nailed Wigfrid. Instead, he just feels like a regular caracter with bad perks. Your ideas are great and it would make him just a little stronger.

 

I'm ok with having negative effects to using a caracter in don't starve (except wilson). The huge problem is that every of his perks are either useless or has a huge drawback and that make the caracter not worth playing in my opinion.

 

I know caracters should not be compared one to another, but let me do a small exercice :

Wilson : +Beard cold, + beard hair, +style, no downside

Willow : +"Permanent torch", +No fire dammage, -Lights fire when insane (really manageable downside)

Wendy : +Has a "permanent" and balanced follower, +less sanity drain darkness, - poor fighter

...

Webber : +Can have some silk every 16 days,+No health loss eating monster meat,+Can befriend spiders, +spiders don't attack, -attacked on sight by pigs and bunnymen, -pigs are better followers than spiders and can be befriended as easily, -harder to get pigskin, -spiders attack chester and gloomer, -spiders eat all of you're loot, -any caracter can befriend spiders using spider queen hat, -low sanity.

[Wenderlly]

I really wanna like Webber but he's so unbalanced imho...

 

- His friends come out at night but that's the time he has to sleep, makes no sense. He should be able to sleep at day and have some night vision at night (doesnt need to be fullscreen, like fullmoon or werebeaver, just like a torch range would suffice).

- Pigs and Bunnymen really are better followers than spiders, spiders immediatly eat all meat on the ground making them poor friends if you want food. (Which is manly why you fight for)

- Catcoons attack him on sight.   Not complaining it's just sad.

- He should loose sanity by day to balance him having nightvision, maybe some little sanity gain around spiders too. (like a top hat would give)

- I know we now have old bell for wood gathering, but pigs are a nice way to have both wood and sanity gain on other characters.

- I don't get why he spawns with 4 monster meat, he can't eat them because his sanity it's so low. The fact he doesn't lose the health it's a really weak perk.

- 6 silks in 16 needs a buff. Like 8 silk in 10 days...

 

Or he could be like a second Wes, which it's made to be challenging not balanced...

[joulesFect]

I really wanna like Webber but he's so unbalanced imho...

 

- His friends come out at night but that's the time he has to sleep, makes no sense. He should be able to sleep at day and have some night vision at night (doesnt need to be fullscreen, like fullmoon or werebeaver, just like a torch range would suffice).

- Pigs and Bunnymen really are better followers than spiders, spiders immediatly eat all meat on the ground making them poor friends if you want food. (Which is manly why you fight for)

- Catcoons attack him on sight.   Not complaining it's just sad.

- He should loose sanity by day to balance him having nightvision, maybe some little sanity gain around spiders too. (like a top hat would give)

- I know we now have old bell for wood gathering, but pigs are a nice way to have both wood and sanity gain on other characters.

- I don't get why he spawns with 4 monster meat, he can't eat them because his sanity it's so low. The fact he doesn't lose the health it's a really weak perk.

- 6 silks in 16 needs a buff. Like 8 silk in 10 days...

 

Or he could be like a second Wes, which it's made to be challenging not balanced...

 

Exactly.

 

I don't like the idea of him being a second wes though. I mean, he has so much potential ! With just a few tweaks he could have a unique, balanced and really fun playstyle !

 

I also had another idea, maybe you could put silk on spiders nest when playing as him to upgrade the nest and be able to relocate it faster. Like 4 silk for level 1 to 2 and 6 for level 2 to 3

[lunchb0x]

Webber doesn't need a lot of tweaking imo to make him more enjoyable and balanced. 

 

-He doesn't need night vision, Light is a core mechanic of the game and caves are easy enough for Webber without adding night vision.

 

-There is the Siesta Lean-To item now, so sleeping during the day is possible for all characters no need to change this.

 

-All Monster Meat items need to lose their sanity drain along with the removed health damage to make it a viable food source.

 

-It's not too difficult to gather spiders at night once you get the miner's hat but it would work much better if Webber still triggered the webbing to draw out spiders. This would also make it easier to gather Cave Spider followers. 

 

-The beard needs a little tweak as other have said. Either faster growth to make the silk worth farming or give it a weather bonus. They could give it a cold resistance same as Wilson but I think they should give Webber's beard a water resistance (20/40/60 for each stage of beard).

 

-Finally the loss of pigs is a tough one for players who know how valuable pigs are...I suggest we create a Pig Mask that works similar to the Spider Queen Hat or a Human Mask that conceals Webber's spider identity so that pigs and catcoons won't automatically attack him which allows normal interactions so long as the mask stays equipped. The balance of this feature would come from how difficult the items are to obtain/craft.

[MrZbujacz]

Webber doesn't need a lot of tweaking imo to make him more enjoyable and balanced. 

 

-He doesn't need night vision, Light is a core mechanic of the game and caves are easy enough for Webber without adding night vision.

 

-There is the Siesta Lean-To item now, so sleeping during the day is possible for all characters no need to change this.

 

-All Monster Meat items need to lose their sanity drain along with the removed health damage to make it a viable food source.

 

-It's not too difficult to gather spiders at night once you get the miner's hat but it would work much better if Webber still triggered the webbing to draw out spiders. This would also make it easier to gather Cave Spider followers. 

 

-The beard needs a little tweak as other have said. Either faster growth to make the silk worth farming or give it a weather bonus. They could give it a cold resistance same as Wilson but I think they should give Webber's beard a water resistance (20/40/60 for each stage of beard).

 

-Finally the loss of pigs is a tough one for players who know how valuable pigs are...I suggest we create a Pig Mask that works similar to the Spider Queen Hat or a Human Mask that conceals Webber's spider identity so that pigs and catcoons won't automatically attack him which allows normal interactions so long as the mask stays equipped. The balance of this feature would come from how difficult the items are to obtain/craft.

I really like idea for give Webber's beard water resistance.

[Wenderlly]

Exactly.

 

I don't like the idea of him being a second wes though. I mean, he has so much potential ! With just a few tweaks he could have a unique, balanced and really fun playstyle !

 

I also had another idea, maybe you could put silk on spiders nest when playing as him to upgrade the nest and be able to relocate it faster. Like 4 silk for level 1 to 2 and 6 for level 2 to 3

 

Cool idea, Maybe not just silk but monster meat too, because higher level dens have more spiders not just more space. Maybe he could harvest silk according with the den's level. 1 silk for level 1 and so on

[joulesFect]

Webber doesn't need a lot of tweaking imo to make him more enjoyable and balanced. 

 

-He doesn't need night vision, Light is a core mechanic of the game and caves are easy enough for Webber without adding night vision.

 

-There is the Siesta Lean-To item now, so sleeping during the day is possible for all characters no need to change this.

 

-All Monster Meat items need to lose their sanity drain along with the removed health damage to make it a viable food source.

 

-It's not too difficult to gather spiders at night once you get the miner's hat but it would work much better if Webber still triggered the webbing to draw out spiders. This would also make it easier to gather Cave Spider followers. 

 

-The beard needs a little tweak as other have said. Either faster growth to make the silk worth farming or give it a weather bonus. They could give it a cold resistance same as Wilson but I think they should give Webber's beard a water resistance (20/40/60 for each stage of beard).

 

-Finally the loss of pigs is a tough one for players who know how valuable pigs are...I suggest we create a Pig Mask that works similar to the Spider Queen Hat or a Human Mask that conceals Webber's spider identity so that pigs and catcoons won't automatically attack him which allows normal interactions so long as the mask stays equipped. The balance of this feature would come from how difficult the items are to obtain/craft.

 

Hey, great suggestions. I agree that night vision is not the ideal perk to give him, I'd rather see his current abilities balanced out. I agree with what you said but I'd like it if there was an easier way to befriend yellow spiders. Maybe they could come out as well when you trigger the nest as webber. Beard+water resistance is a magnificient idea.

 

While I do not disagree with the pig's mask idea, I'd rather have spider followers be a little less of a nuisance : not eat everything on the ground instantly, maybe giving us a delay of like 3-4 seconds to pick most of the stuff up. Making them not attack followers makes things a little less realistic but balances the caracter a whole lot more as well.

[lunchb0x]

Hey, great suggestions. I agree that night vision is not the ideal perk to give him, I'd rather see his current abilities balanced out. I agree with what you said but I'd like it if there was an easier way to befriend yellow spiders. Maybe they could come out as well when you trigger the nest as webber. Beard+water resistance is a magnificient idea.

 

While I do not disagree with the pig's mask idea, I'd rather have spider followers be a little less of a nuisance : not eat everything on the ground instantly, maybe giving us a delay of like 3-4 seconds to pick most of the stuff up. Making them not attack followers makes things a little less realistic but balances the caracter a whole lot more as well.

Thank you

 

Warrior spiders do require a little more work right now but it's still not too difficult to acquire them, Spitters can be very difficult to draw out without mining their dens and since their dens don't heal and can't be rebuilt you are slowly destroying a great resource. I would suggest that as I said earlier Webber should be able to activate the web creep like other characters to draw out spiders. next make a change to Tier 3 spider dens(Not just for Webber) so that the three triggered spiders contains 1 spider warrior and 2 normal spiders instead of the usual 3 normal spiders. This makes tackling tier 3 dens a little more challenging(most experienced players can deal with the normal spiders in their sleep) as well as giving Webber an easier way of recruiting warriors.

 

I would prefer that tamed spiders had better A.I. as well but I don't know how difficult it would be to implement. Wild spiders should continue to be ravenous little eating machines and changing their behaviour only when recruited could be tricky (I'm not a programmer).

 

I also forgot to mention that they shouldn't attack Chester/Glommer but I think that is obviously annoying to everyone and will surely be patched.

[Strangerdanger101]

Hey, great suggestions. I agree that night vision is not the ideal perk to give him, I'd rather see his current abilities balanced out. I agree with what you said but I'd like it if there was an easier way to befriend yellow spiders. Maybe they could come out as well when you trigger the nest as webber. Beard+water resistance is a magnificient idea.

 

While I do not disagree with the pig's mask idea, I'd rather have spider followers be a little less of a nuisance : not eat everything on the ground instantly, maybe giving us a delay of like 3-4 seconds to pick most of the stuff up. Making them not attack followers makes things a little less realistic but balances the caracter a whole lot more as well.

Trust me, if enough people complain about the meat on the ground issue, it will probably be patched. Since the glommer and chester thing is more of a oversight, that will probably be patched eventually. He should certainly not have night vision, before Webber came out on this DLC, there was a mod for him, the mod gave him night vision which i hated. For the low max sanity, you can change it with console commands if you want.

[joulesFect]

Trust me, if enough people complain about the meat on the ground issue, it will probably be patched. Since the glommer and chester thing is more of a oversight, that will probably be patched eventually. He should certainly not have night vision, before Webber came out on this DLC, there was a mod for him, the mod gave him night vision which i hated. For the low max sanity, you can change it with console commands if you want.

Yeah, pretty much if spiders stop eating everything on the ground instantly and if they stop attacking your followers while being just a little bit more easy to befriend (see lunchb0x post), it will be a blast playing as him. I don't care about low sanity, I think it's a great debuff

[Strangerdanger101]

Yeah, pretty much if spiders stop eating everything on the ground instantly and if they stop attacking your followers while being just a little bit more easy to befriend (see lunchb0x post), it will be a blast playing as him. I don't care about low sanity, I think it's a great debuff

You can edit something in the files to make spiders come out of their den and investigate, however this also makes you slowed by the webs. The spiders who investigate won't attack, though.

[Subscriber01236]

I think if Webber doesn't have any easy ways to make spiders come out at day, he should be able to explore in the dark better.

I was thinking all light sources when playing as Webber could have a larger area of light (being completely immune to Charlie makes her cry).

Also I think he should be able to make some special spider based items, like a web shooter that traps enemies for a few seconds (doesn't work on larger enemies), and maybe a cheaper version of the tent (but requires it to be fixed with silk every use or something like that). 

Maybe if he captures an insect creature he can outright eat them (iz spider after all), or trap them in a web for storage (like being trapped in a chest, but lives longer?).

Also I was thinking what if he could tame the Spider Queen (requires some special meat/ item that could possibly only be obtained by killing a giant or something?)

Or maybe he can make his own special spider dens (maybe he can sleep in them?), that he can upgrade to get more spiders inside, maybe even being able to move undergrounds spiders above ground by using some special spider nests (more expensive). Think it being like a Tower Defense sort of thing, and maybe if he could convince spider queens (see above) to join him they could join forces and be friendly to you. And if you are standing on the web of one of your dens the spiders will come out to greet you and see if you need their service (then proceed to give them meat if you need them), if you walk off the web they walk back inside. But if it was a naturally occurring Spider Den, they would come out to see you, but make growling noises at you (What ever sound spiders make) and if you stay too long they become aggressive(?)

[An Artifact]

I think if Webber doesn't have any easy ways to make spiders come out at day, he should be able to explore in the dark better.

I was thinking all light sources when playing as Webber could have a larger area of light.

Also I think he should be able to make some special spider based items, like a web shooter that traps enemies for a few seconds (doesn't work on larger enemies)

Or maybe he can make his own special spider dens (maybe he can sleep in them?), that he can upgrade to get more spiders inside, maybe even being able to move undergrounds spiders above ground by using some special spider nests (more expensive). Think it being like a Tower Defense sort of thing

I'm imagining a spider den with a little entrance on the front right now. It's a cute image. But yeah, I agree.

[Subscriber01236]

I'm imagining a spider den with a little entrance on the front right now. It's a cute image. But yeah, I agree.

POORLY DRAWN IMAGE GO!!!

I made it into a hotel, cus why not?

[An Artifact]

POORLY DRAWN IMAGE GO!!!

I made it into a hotel, cus why not?

Cute :3

[Bryce]

Hey guys, thanks for testing Webber so thoroughly. This is exactly why we do early access - to make our games better. Don't Starve takes a long time to play, I simply didn't have enough time to give Webber anything more than a couple short plays before we released him. 

 

I'm going to make some tweaks to Webber.

• Spiders attacking your followers is unintended and I'll fix that.
• Spiders eating your meat is by design - it's meant to make you think about having a large army of spiders for easy fights or a smaller group of spiders and some loot at the end. That said, I'm going to add a small delay to when they eat food, maybe a second or two.
• The sanity loss for eating monster meat will be removed.
• Webber's beard will grow faster. It already gives insulation.
• Webber will be able to craft spider dens for something along the lines of 12 silk, 6 spider glands and 6 papyrus. I'm also going to give Webber the ability to upgrade spider dens using silk. This should make it easier to turn your base into an lovely spider resort, and give you more freedom as to where you set up your base.

 

Spiders not coming out of their dens to investigate you is intended. 

[Subscriber01236]

 

I'm going to make some tweaks to Webber.

• Spiders attacking your followers is unintended and I'll fix that.
• Spiders eating your meat is by design - it's meant to make you think about having a large army of spiders for easy fights or a smaller group of spiders and some loot at the end. That said, I'm going to add a small delay to when they eat food, maybe a second or two.
• The sanity loss for eating monster meat will be removed.
• Webber's beard will grow faster. It already gives insulation.
• Webber will be able to craft spider dens for something along the lines of 12 silk, 6 spider glands and 6 papyrus. I'm also going to give Webber the ability to upgrade spider dens using silk. This should make it easier to turn your base into an lovely spider resort, and give you more freedom as to where you set up your base.

Awesome, nice to hear.

[Strangerdanger101]

Awesome, nice to hear.

See everyone? We just had to trust in Webber. and now we get what we wanted.

[An Artifact]

Wonderful! It's not going to be quite the Webber I wanted, but it's pretty close :3 There'll probably be a nightvision mod for him soon enough anyway.

[Strangerdanger101]

Wonderful! It's not going to be quite the Webber I wanted, but it's pretty close :3 There'll probably be a nightvision mod for him soon enough anyway.

There is already a mod that gives webber with night vision, but it doesnt work with the DLC and it has no custom quotes except for evergreen trees. And it's a completely different webber basically, cant befriend spiders and stuff.

[Skorp]

Would it be possible that the meat eaten by the spiders counted to the loyalty time? Like you are leading them to food instead of hiring them like greedy pigs.

[Flypaste]

The problemw ith the spiders eating your meat though, is that even with 4 spiders, if they attack the target that you're attacking, they instantly gobble everything up the second it dies. They even do it BEFORE taking another target!