[Roadmap] Objectives And Worldviews Towards Alpha

[simplex]

I'd say the priority there is defining what properties the remaining 2 biomes should have, so both the turf art and the biome contents can reflect that.

Are we fixed on the Storm and Rainbow biome going in to production for the first level?

I've made an effort to order things by their degree of priority, so i think we should start considering going through the plan, line by line, and making those tough decisions, one by one, as a group.

 

I'm planning on adding a list of biome suggestions to this thread, or reviving that discussion in the Cauldron, but for now all i have are mine - need to do a little digging around first...

Agreed. We should revive the biome discussion, but now with a more objective tone, focused on building a roadmap.

Sorry, i'd forgotten about that, was treating it like flowers/evil flowers.

I see permanent daturas as a thing, but just in set pieces, such as the Witches Grove.

[lifemare]

@TeoSS69:

I'm posting this here, because it counts as a strategy:

Shouldn't we start updating the Suggestions OP to recommend people think of where to include their ideas when they submit them?

As in: this is what we're thinking for level 1, this is 2, this is 3, this is the biomes we have, you're free to offer crazy and loose ideas, but when possible try to make them fit into one of these environments and make an effort to develop it a bit more before posting (what drops would it have, static effect, etc, etc)

[TeoSS69]

EDIT:

I'd leave things like mob frequency and item drop-rates outside of this and in the hands of our wizards, since those variables are very interdependent and better comprehended when dealing with the full code, but debugman18 specifically asked for some of this to be included, so, even if it complicates the OP, i'm leaving it there. Although i'm open to suggestions on how to better structure that, if it's starting to become too cryptic... 

Frequency and details should be left for later as they will certainly change with testing. Once we try them in the game we can give better feedback on placement, numbers and stats.

 

@TeoSS69:

I'm posting this here, because it counts as a strategy:

Shouldn't we start updating the Suggestions OP to recommend people think of where to include their ideas when they submit them?

As in: this is what we're thinking for level 1, this is 2, this is 3, this is the biomes we have, you're free to offer crazy and loose ideas, but when possible try to make them fit into one of these environments and make an effort to develop it a bit more before posting (what drops would it have, static effect, etc, etc)

It's already tackled in the OP but not in detail. The "fit the mod" and "what effect does static have"  are there for that.

Though a link to the roadmap wouldn't hurt i guess, so they have quick access to what the mod's themes are.

[lifemare]

Made some extensive changes to the OP.

Can i start coloring some things green on the ideas for the biota?

Any disagreements/suggestions about the biomes and their native mobs/flora and the rest of the stuff?

[Craig_Perry]

Made some extensive changes to the OP.

Can i start coloring some things green on the ideas for the biota?

Any disagreements/suggestions about the biomes and their native mobs/flora and the rest of the stuff?

as it stands I believe its mostly up in the air so any concepts would be quite useful to the team

[debugman18]

Unless there are people in disagreement, biomes will follow this structuring (particulars up for discussion, ofc):

 

  --Cloud Realm First Floor --

 

  -Generic Biome-

 

    -Cloud Crag Area

    -Cloud Bush Area

    -Sheep Herd Area

    -Owl Crystal Area

 

  -Aurora Biome-

 

    -Marshmallow Area

    -Jelly Area

    -Rainbowcoon Area

    -Cheshire Area

 

And so on. Thoughts? Each biome is an island connected to other islands.

[lifemare]

Unless there are people in disagreement, biomes will follow this structuring (particulars up for discussion, ofc):

 

Thoughts:

- When you mention Areas, do you mean the entire biome is their area, or that every one of those things will have separate zones? If it's the latter, i thought Cloud bushes would be like Berry bushes (found across the whole map)?

- Did you pick Aurora by mistake instead of Rainbow? Or are you replacing the Rainbow biome with another one?

- Longbill/Duckraptor TEX's still need work according to Arctic. Is that why they're not there?

- Should us artists ready some more flora (Thunder Trees, Cloud Coral, Cloud Algae) as soon as possible to go into those? Since there seems to be a clear lack of vegetation in there...

- Would Batilisks be a good mob for Aurora, or do you feel this falls into the "no-vanilla philosophy" (for lack of a better term)?

- No skyflies or skyflowers? Or does that omission just mean they'll be on all biomes?

...

[debugman18]

Thoughts:

- When you mention Areas, do you mean the entire biome is their area, or that every one of those things will have separate zones?

- If that's the case, i thought Cloud bushes would be like Berry bushes (found across the whole map)?

- Did you pick Aurora by mistake instead of Rainbow? Or are you replacing the Rainbow biome with another one?

- Longbill/Duckraptor TEX's still need work according to Arctic. Is that why they're not there?

- Should us artists ready some more flora (Thunder Trees, Cloud Coral, Cloud Algae) as soon as possible to go into those? Since there seems to be a clear lack of vegetation in there...

- Would Batilisks be a good mob for Aurora, or do you feel this falls into the "no-vanilla philosophy" (for lack of a better term)?

- No skyflies or skyflowers? Or does that omission just mean they'll be on all biomes?

...

Oh, I probably wasn't too clear there. And yeah, names are just names, they're not final, I'm just trying to put a system in place here.

 

As for Batilisks, why would they be here? Frogs, I can see making sense. Batilisks, though, I don't quite understand. Bats love caves and jungles; they're not fans of high places, unless I'm mistaken. This is irrelevant to the vanilla philosophy.

 

The duckraptor is the shadow hatched version of the golden Moose, and the longbill isn't in yet. Also, art for the biota is very much so needed.

 

This is how a Room (area) works:

TheMod:AddRoom("SkyflowerGarden", {    colour={r=.2,g=.2,b=.2,a=1},    -This is the area's floor type.    value = GROUND.POOPCLOUD,    contents = {        distributepercent = 0.5,        distributeprefabs = {            --This is where we choose what spawns there, and how common it is.            skyflower = 1,            thunder_tree = 0.5,            crystal_relic = 0.01,        },    },})

And this is how a Task (biome) works:

TheMod:AddTask("Cloud_Generic_Biome", {    locks = LOCKS.NONE,    keys_given = {KEYS.TIER1, KEYS.TIER2},    room_choices={        --["BGCloud"] = math.random(2),        ["SkyflowerGarden"] = math.random(1, 4),        ["SheepHerd"] = math.random(2, 3),        ["BushGarden"] = math.random(2, 4),            ["CragLanding"] = math.random(1,1),        ["Vine_Room"] = math.random(1,1),    },    room_bg=GROUND.POOPCLOUD,    background_room="BGCloud",    colour={r=.2,g=.2,b=.2,a=1},})

I'm currently implementing biomes/biota, so knowing what biomes there are, and what areas there will be within those, is imperative. Setpieces will come later, although there is one that is spawned for testing purposes.

[lifemare]

Oh, I probably wasn't too clear there. And yeah, names are just names, they're not final, I'm just trying to put a system in place here.

 

As for Batilisks, why would they be here? Frogs, I can see making sense. Batilisks, though, I don't quite understand. Bats love caves and jungles; they're not fans of high places, unless I'm mistaken. This is irrelevant to the vanilla philosophy.

 

The duckraptor is the shadow hatched version of the golden Moose, and the longbill isn't in yet. Also, art for the biota is very much so needed.

 

I'm currently implementing biomes/biota, so knowing what biomes there are, and what areas there will be within those, is imperative. Setpieces will come later, although there is one that is spawned for testing purposes.

 

- It's more than names, debug. Those two biomes (Aurora/Rainbow) would have very different art and properties (at least the way i designed them in my head)......... If you're going with Aurora first, then we should leave Rainbowcoons out of it. If you're merging both those biomes, then i'd like to hear your suggestion for a third biome.

- If indeed there will be 3 biomes in level one? How many were you planning on developing?

- Batilisks would fit with the whole aesthetic i planned for my Aurora art and concept. Not a great idea, i'll give you that. And yeah, if you want to be logic about it, they're not that fond of high places... But then again, neither are Sheep :^P

- Longbill/Duckraptor have been listed like that in the Doc for over a month and in the Roadmap OP for a little less... Had to go search the megathread for this post to find out when that happened, must've missed it... Well, this leads me straight to my next thought:

- If the fact you're a lot more involved than i'll ever be with the guts of the mod and have a better grip on its pulse regarding where it's going, weren't reason enough, your assertiveness in that biota post makes it undeniable... Would you want to take care of this Roadmap?

It's not generating any discussion at all, which was the whole point. So it might aswell generate certainty, wich was the one intention. And you're the only one qualified to offer that...

[debugman18]

- It's more than names, debug. Those two biomes (Aurora/Rainbow) would have very different art and properties (at least the way i designed them in my head)......... If you're going with Aurora first, then we should leave Rainbowcoons out of it. If you're merging both those biomes, then i'd like to hear your suggestion for a third biome.

- If indeed there will be 3 biomes in level one? How many were you planning on developing?

- Agree with you about batilisks. They'd fit with the whole aesthetic i planned for my Aurora art. But yeah, if you want to be logic about it, they're not that fond of open spaces... 

- If the fact you're a lot more involved than i'll ever be with the guts of the mod and have a better grip on its pulse regarding where it's going, weren't reason enough, your assertiveness in that biota post makes it undeniable... Would you want to take care of this Roadmap?

It's not generating any discussion at all, which was the whole point. So it might aswell generate certainty, wich was the one intention. And you're the only one qualified to offer that...

Well, the biome outline I gave was for consideration and correction from the team. I actually only mixed up aurora with rainbow, by the way. This is the very beginning of the biome implementation, so its not anywhere near final. This is my way of exploring what we want/can do with biomes. What I meant by names are just names is that every detail of each biome/subbiome is easily changed, so names don't matter at all, except for when reading and writing the code, since they won't actually be labeled in-game.

 

And I'm not trying to take control of the topic; Rather, I'm trying to determine what needs to be done in terms of biomes. Sure, I'm in the guts of the mod, but I'm a horrid organizer. I hope I'm not causing you distress, I only mean to understand the specifics of what I'm implementing.

 

So, the biomes I see being on the first level are the following. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

Aurora - This is the manta/jelly/algae biome, right?

 

Rainbow - This is marshmallows and rainbowcoon, and everything else rainbow?

 

Generic - The 'main' biome of the first level, this contains skyflowers, bushes, etcetera.

 

Think of islands as biomes, and think of the rooms within as subbiomes, if that makes sense.

[lifemare]

Well, the biome outline I gave was for consideration and correction from the team. I actually only mixed up aurora with rainbow, by the way. This is the very beginning of the biome implementation, so its not anywhere near final. This is my way of exploring what we want/can do with biomes. What I meant by names are just names is that every detail of each biome/subbiome is easily changed, so names don't matter at all, except for when reading and writing the code, since they won't actually be labeled in-game.

 

And I'm not trying to take control of the topic; Rather, I'm trying to determine what needs to be done in terms of biomes. Sure, I'm in the guts of the mod, but I'm a horrid organizer. I hope I'm not causing you distress, I only mean to understand the specifics of what I'm implementing.

 

So, the biomes I see being on the first level are the following. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

Aurora - This is the manta/jelly/algae biome, right?

 

Rainbow - This is marshmallows and rainbowcoon, and everything else rainbow?

 

Generic - The 'main' biome of the first level, this contains skyflowers, bushes, etcetera.

 

Think of islands as biomes, and think of the rooms within as subbiomes, if that makes sense.

 

Oh Damn! Did i sound agressive on that post?!? Very sorry if that's case! It must be my bureaucratic tone... :^P

And i don't think you're trying to take over the thread at all. Precisely the opposite. I was offering because i feel very lost here. And you do have a better view of the cloudscape than i'll ever have...

 

Regarding biomes. I have been offering to make their art urgent, exactly because of this. Those were my ideas and i have a vision for them. And i suspect people aren't making many suggestions for them, because they're not visualizing them......

I'll try to sketch some things as soon as possible. In the meantime i'll try to describe them to you the best i can:

Aurora: Based on the Northern Lights. It would be a dark biome, with strands of phosporescent light showing through the turf (like in the cave ruins, sorta). It would be a bit like a night-time biome (even if we go with permadusk) to offer some contrast to the level. It would be a place for dark magic and dark fairytales. I think we could even get away with adding permahallucinations there. That's why batilisks could make some sense (but i'm fine with leaving them out of course). Everything about them regarding what mobs and flora it will have are open. But trying to fit our current developed ideas and content into them led me to those suggestions. Things should be aethereal there, so Mantas are a must.

Rainbow: Would be mainly pink but with strands of colors everywhere. It would be Candyland and Flower Power. It could drain a little sanity (if we go with the trippy atmosphere). Everything should be sugary and our weirdest fairytales would live there (Alice in Wonderland is perfect for this, hence Cheshire). But it would be reasonably peaceful like the Snow biome.

 

I'm not trying to push these. These are just our only ideas for biomes, since apart from one or two scattered suggestions (Vearth) and some stuff that was said when i brought this matter recently to the Suggestions thread, i've been the only talking about biomes...

 

PS: So there is a generic biome! Will that be the poopturf one then?

[debugman18]

Oh Damn! Did i sound agressive on that post?!? Very sorry if that's case! It must be my bureaucratic tone... :^P

And i don't think you're trying to take over the thread at all. Precisely the opposite. I was offering because i feel very lost here. And you do have a better view of the cloudscape than i'll ever have...

 

Regarding biomes. I have been offering to make their art urgent, exactly because of this. Those were my ideas and i have a vision for them. And i suspect people aren't making many suggestions for them, because they're not visualizing them......

I'll try to sketch some things as soon as possible. In the meantime i'll try to describe them to you the best i can:

Aurora: Based on the Northern Lights. It would be a dark biome, with strands of phosporescent light showing through the turf (like in the cave ruins, sorta). It would be a bit like a night-time biome (even if we go with permadusk) to offer some contrast to the level. It would be a place for dark magic and dark fairytales. I think we could even get away with adding permahallucinations there. That's why batilisks could make some sense (but i'm fine with leaving them out of course). Everything about them regarding what mobs and flora it will have are open. But trying to fit our current developed ideas and content into them led me to those suggestions. Things should be aethereal there, so Mantas are a must.

Rainbow: Would be mainly pink but with strands of colors everywhere. It would be Candyland and Flower Power. It could drain a little sanity (if we go with the trippy atmosphere). Everything should be sugary and our weirdest fairytales would live there (Alice in Wonderland is perfect for this, hence Cheshire). But it would be reasonably peaceful like the Snow biome.

 

I'm not trying to push these. These are just our only ideas for biomes, since apart from one or two scattered suggestions (Vearth) and some stuff that was said when i brought this matter recently to the Suggestions thread, i've been the only talking about biomes...

 

PS: So there is a generic biome! Will that be the poopturf one then?

Just making sure, I'm good at reading people in person, but text doesn't always translate well to me. I'm a pretty avid reader, so I tend to picture words quite vividly. :s

 

And yes, poopcloud turf is the generic biome, currently.

[lifemare]

Just making sure, I'm good at reading people in person, but text doesn't always translate well to me. I'm a pretty avid reader, so I tend to picture words quite vividly. :s

 

And yes, poopcloud turf is the generic biome, currently.

 

Well, damn! Where were you when i had that dumb discussion about poopturf!?

I tend to be a bit dry and formal when writting in english, that's why i always try to stick some jokes in there somewhere.

But sometimes i go overboard and it's mainly (lame) jokes and off-topics and derails and asides. And i've been trying to avoid that...

Sorry again if i sounded rude or something.

But my distress about the Roadmap is real. You're not the one causing it. I just never coded a single line or ever been involved so deep in a mod. So i'm struggling a lot here, and i'm totally uncertain if this is at all relevant or if it's the best way to structure a proper Roadmap. Not getting any real feedback here is only exacerbating that anxiety and feeling of irrelevance.... So, you'd be doing me a favor by taking it off my hands, debug. But i'll keep at it then, if you feel you're not cut for this bureaucratic stuff.

[thelefthelix]

I'll pitch my thoughts in here, but as usual, expect some repetition and echoing that usually comes with my walls of text. Also, I want to mention that while our focus should be on the biomes for level 1, we would be wise to take into consideration the other levels in terms of what biomes those should contain as well, so we don't cram a biome in the first level, and later decide it would really work better for another. This isn't to say it can't be done, but I don't think Simplex and Debug would appreciate it too much!

 

I'd also like to point out that I am, for the most part, in agreement with the OP as far as biomes are concerned. The things I disagree with are pretty insignificant, and nothing worth debating, since I don't feel too strongly about them.

 

Level 1

 

Snow Biome:

I'm not opposed to this, though I think it could use some more personality. A winter wonderland type biome, if it's to be the most generic one that the player encounters. I would like to see a lot of crystals, snowflakes, and perhaps some wintery-type creatures and flora. During an active static cycle, this area could become a glistening beacon, I imagine crystals seething with electric, and emitting a glow everywhere. I don't imagine sheep wandering freely through here, but I suppose its possible given the wild herds of mountain goats, yaks, those sorts of things. If we're going to add a generic winter type biome, then let's run with it and lets make it memorable.

 

Rainbow Biome:

This one I'm unsure of, overall. I'm torn between supporting a trippy atmosphere, one filled with mushrooms, rainbowcoons, and things that just waltzed out of a Pink Floyd music video. I also think the beanlets would be much more suitable here, as I don't see them fitting well within an icey biome. They are vegetables, afterall.

 

On the other hand, I think a good alternative for this would be a sunset biome. Sunsets are painted with all the colors Lifemare envisions, and I feel that we could find a home for the rainbowcoons and things here also. However I think a sunset biome would be more suited for level 2, where we could give it an atmosphere that suggests an approaching storm. (Here in the southern US, a storm approaching at sunset can look quite intense)

 

Aurora Biome:

I really don't have much to comment on with this one, I'm on the same page as Lifemare with his description of it just up there.

 

[TeoSS69]

Before i pinch in would like to know what do you guys think on the number of biomes the first level should have.
The 1st caves level right now has 7 biomes for comparison. Ruins have 5.

And if i get it right : Biome = Grassland , Room = Frog Ponds group, Beehives group, Resource Rich etc. Right? 

[debugman18]

There is now a wiki for the mod:

http://up-and-away.wikia.com/wiki/Up_%26_Away_Wiki

 

I'm slowly organizing the pages.

[Craig_Perry]

There is now a wiki for the mod:

http://up-and-away.wikia.com/wiki/Up_%26_Away_Wiki

 

I'm slowly organizing the pages.

looking forward to it, I'll contribute when I can

[ArcticFox789]

There is now a wiki for the mod:

http://up-and-away.wikia.com/wiki/Up_%26_Away_Wiki

 

I'm slowly organizing the pages.

 

Nice! I'll check it out, see if there's anything I can do. 

 

Having checked it out, I might make some Infoboxes. It'll probably make the page less bare. Hope I'm not trodding on any toes here.

[simplex]

Nice! I'll check it out, see if there's anything I can do. 

 

Having checked it out, I might make some Infoboxes. It'll probably make the page less bare. Hope I'm not trodding on any toes here.

You certainly are not. And it's a wiki, after all. ;P

[debugman18]

looking forward to it, I'll contribute when I can

 

 

Nice! I'll check it out, see if there's anything I can do. 

 

Having checked it out, I might make some Infoboxes. It'll probably make the page less bare. Hope I'm not trodding on any toes here.

 

 

You certainly are not. And it's a wiki, after all. ;P

 

Right, it's a wiki, so I would definitely encourage users improving upon it. It's pretty bare, like ArcticFox said. (There's at least categories.)

[simplex]

But the priority for the wiki, right now, should be compiling info on mobs/items, to aid their implementation.

[ArcticFox789]

But the priority for the wiki, right now, should be compiling info on mobs/items, to aid their implementation.

 

Agreed. Oh, the Infoboxes were being a pain, so basically, they have to be hand-edited. But it's not so bad. Just slightly more time-consuming.