should maxwell be allowed to keep reading wicker's books?

[Mr Giggio]

On 5/20/2026 at 11:44 PM, Auth said:

Something I always like to say is if Maxwell should be able to have full access to Wicker's books, then shouldn't Wicker get access to the codex?

I agree with you but lorewise Wicker hates the Codex

She says "oh this is not going in the bookcase" like she despises it and it doesn't belong to her interests

It's like the same  thing about Wurt and pig King, it ain't only that he don't want to trade with her it's her in first place declaring hatred and it's mutual 

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Lumina said:

A good argument for who? Wicker's players? Maxwell's players? The game? You?

I stand by my feeling that Maxwell keeping the ability to read some of her books is interesting for the first three categories, because it's encouraging cooperation : maxwell reads books he can read to spare wicker's sanity, wicker can focus on the book only she can read and make more use of her sanity, people can get a good synergy out of that, and there is still room to keep wicker as a character on the server because Maxwell can't replace her, because some books will never be as great as all books.

In term of gameplay it opens more interesting situations, it keeps some elements of fun for both characters, and it works well thematically too.

The main downside is that it's a bit more complex than removing ability entirely, and choosing which books would make sense is a bit of work but it's not something we have to do here, it's something for Klei to consider and balance.

 

 

There is no added fun to Wickerbottom because there is no synergy it's just another character doing her things better. It's kinda a tired saying at this point but if someone else took Abigail under the context of sparing Wendy from farming spiders that would not make Wendy any better or synergistic especially when Wickerbottom has solutions for her problems built into her kit. Actual synergy would be how Wes, Walter, Wendy, and Willow can use their sanity perks to help Wickerbottom to help her recover from low sanity fast because in these scenarios her role isn't being replaced she's being supported to perform her best at what she excels at.

 

[Tranoze]

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

it's just another character doing her things better.

Except for spawning tentacles and bees, the rest of wicker book is just doing other basic work better,

Sleep book? panflute.

Lunar grimore? Just kill/spawn CC to control your moon cycle as you wish.

Farm book? Just plant more.

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

else took Abigail under the context of sparing Wendy from farming spiders

If Wendy has to farm spider 24/7 like how wicker have to read book on farms then yes. Unlike wendy only have to farm spider once every few days, Wicker work is long and tedious. You have to read entire book cases of book just to farm enough grass/twigs for your friend to use in a day, then another book case full of book for stone fruit, then bird farm for krampus sacks, another book case for lightning -> charged glass, You have to constantly run to swamp for more paper or go to moonquay to trade....

A Wendy or Willow trade in monquay would help a lot because they deal much better vs monkey and can farm bananas easier in the ruin.
 

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I've got to ask why is it so important that Maxwell use Wickerbottom's books? Does he become a bad character because he can't make use of another character's entire identity? Surely there's some big reason you'd try to fight against this change and not just for the sake of it no? The thing is noone ever makes a good arguement for why it should stay. They either fall by on lore which is contradicted by the lore of other characters, bargin, try to distract from the conversation by making crap up, or just say he should have because he has it. The truth has always been the same this interaction has always been a harmful interaction it's very apparent in that people keep talking about how Wickerbottom needs her own abilities separate from books to distinguish her from Maxwell despite her being the librarian. It's like making Wortox able to use all of Willow's fire magic and saying rather than acknowledging this is a really stupid idea we instead changed her focus to being a farming character with a minor focus on fire.

You guys never make a case for why the ability should be removed. Out of the million things Maxwell does this one almost useless lore thing is what you take issue with. Almost every book is exclusively used once, and then it's useless for like 100 real life hours. It doesn't matter that Maxwell can get infinite plant material when you only need to do that once then you have enough for 100 hours. It doesn't matter that Maxwell can set up a boss farm when you only need to do that once then it's going to work for 100 hours. Wickerbottom's books don't do anything past their first initial use. The only books that don't last for 100 hours are the early game books like the light book and the learning book. And how would the game be improved if Wickerbottom was nerfed and she could no longer, in the scenario where both she and Maxwell join the server together, share her silly little learning and light books with Maxwell? How is Wickerbottom losing that team synergy going to improve the character? Should nobody be able to eat Warly's food and he's the only one who can eat it, so you can completely kill the character's goal of cooperation all for some vein attempt at making him seem unique? Should Warly's only unique thing be taken away from him so he's homogenized with the rest and you can pretend he's now unique? 

[Mysterious box]

21 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Except for spawning tentacles and bees, the rest of wicker book is just doing other basic work better,

Sleep book? panflute.

Lunar grimore? Just kill/spawn CC to control your moon cycle as you wish.

Farm book? Just plant more.

If Wendy has to farm spider 24/7 like how wicker have to read book on farms then yes. Unlike wendy only have to farm spider once every few days, Wicker work is long and tedious. You have to read entire book cases of book just to farm enough grass/twigs for your friend to use in a day, then another book case full of book for stone fruit, then bird farm for krampus sacks, another book case for lightning -> charged glass, You have to constantly run to swamp for more paper or go to moonquay to trade....

A Wendy or Willow trade in monquay would help a lot because they deal much better vs monkey and can farm bananas easier in the ruin.
 

This makes no sense to me you say it's like a full time job but that's not my experience because people need the resources they are more than willing to help when you ask heck some people jump at the opportunity to farm off the resources you create when you over read your books Willows, Maxwells, Wanda's, Walter's, and more scramble for the free nightmare fuel. Rushers for the lunar island and moon quay aren't uncommon, people who want resources are quick to help with the harvesting. If your team isn't willing to help then simply don't cater to them and play at your own pace Wickerbottom players aren't servants to their servers. People act like Wickerbottom has to stay at base and has to focus on farming resources even when others don't assist her in the process she doesn't that's just you taking the burden of everything on yourself due to a misguided idea of how the character "should play".

 

24 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Sleep book? panflute.

This is silly it's like comparing Willow's fireball to the star caller staff negatively 

26 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Lunar grimore? Just kill/spawn CC to control your moon cycle as you wish.

Yeah just do a long question line and kill a bunch a bosses and deal with lunar storms. It's doable doesn't mean it's close to being a better option

38 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Farm book? Just plant more.

Instant crops vs waiting hmm...

[Nikki Darks]

Why do so many people who respond on here ignore what people say.

We say: "The reason why it's not a good game mechanic is because it's Wickerbottom's core identity being taken by another character, rendering staying as Wickerbottom objectively pointless due to books being HER core identity."

People who think he should read her books: "Omg you guys, they never make good arguments, they just think it's boriiiing, why do they never make cohesive arguments about why it's bad".

I am starting to think like my first assessment was absolutely correct, lol.

"It's not *faiiiiir* I can't use this character's core identity without playing them! Why should I play Wickerbottom to play Wickerbottom??? That's so silly and dumb!"

Also, synergy doesn't mean stealing another character's core identity, it's combining 2 characters or more in a way that they work together with THEIR OWN abilities.

And again, I don't hear people advocating for everyone to get their own Abigail, Codex Umbra or mightiness.

It's always Wickerbottom's abilities being passed around and shared, nobody else's.

[Tranoze]

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 people need the resources they are more than willing to help when you ask heck some people jump at the opportunity to farm off the resources you create when you over read your books Willows, Maxwells, Wanda's, Walter's, and more scramble for the free nightmare fuel. 

Yes other can help, and they will all help, but you are not their boss to order everyone around. Unless everyone is speed runner and have pre communication that who does what at which time, if you ask a wendy to go raid monkey island for you and they agreed to, it probably take 10~20 days (gather bananas in cave, make boat, find monquay...). Everyone, include wicker will still do their job at their own pace as you said.

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This makes no sense to me you say it's like a full time job

Yes it kinda is when compare to wendy farming spider. You literally can afk and go toilet while abigail auto agroo nearby spider for free silk.
For wicker, maxwell, one missclick/over click on book case = 1 book lost. You have to constantly fight nightmare creature if you dont have bone helm. Even if your friend fight them for you, you dont gain sanity so it best if just you kill the nightmare.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

Why do so many people who respond on here ignore what people say.

Because they only respond to what they read. Not everyone here read the entire comment section.

11 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

Also, synergy doesn't mean stealing another character's core identity, it's combining 2 characters or more in a way that they work together with THEIR OWN abilities.

Maxwell cant craft book, he can only used book precrafted on farm already done designed by wicker. He cant make new farm with new bookcase. Wicker bottom is the MASTERMIND while Maxwell is only the SLAVE to execute actions as her command.

Edited Friday at 02:47 PM by Tranoze

[Nikki Darks]

6 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Because they only respond to what they read. Not everyone here read the entire comment section.

Maxwell cant craft book, he can only used book precrafted on farm already done designed by wicker. He cant make new farm with new bookcase. Wicker bottom is the MASTERMIND while Maxwell is only the SLAVE to execute as her command.

Except that once she crafts all the needed books + bookshelf she is no longer needed and is somewhat of a wasted character slot due to Maxwell having infinite durability books.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You guys never make a case for why the ability should be removed. Out of the million things Maxwell does this one almost useless lore thing is what you take issue with.

You mean aside from giving her a unique identity and playstyle the oje thing you want in a game with multiple supposedly unique characters and if lore is your fall guy I once again ask why Wanda and Wortox can't use them?

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Should nobody be able to eat Warly's food and he's the only one who can eat it, so you can completely kill the character's goal of cooperation all for some vein attempt at making him seem unique? Should Warly's only unique thing be taken away from him so he's homogenized with the rest and you can pretend he's now unique? 

Warly's a different case not only is he not cutoff from the loop but his role is more so like Wigfrid's shareable gear their things persist when they are gone but if you use their stuff often you need them around or need to switch back eventually to take advantage of their kit he isn't removed from the equation because you stocked up on his bundled dishes.

25 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

. Almost every book is exclusively used once, and then it's useless for like 100 real life hours.

Based on what? Do you ever stop needing resources? Then her books will always have a use. Also you can't be serious if you are saying you farm 100 hours worth of resources straight if you are then just play the character no? If you are only ever using her books once then that just shows what's wrong with the exchange her books have plenty of uses in the day to day but because you throw another character on top of her you only focus on her strongest abilities then ditch her. There's no fun interaction or neat gameplay synergy you are jut squeezing a character for all you assume they are worth then tossing them to the side for the character who can use her "good abilities" further proving this is a harmful design for the character in question.

33 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wickerbottom's books don't do anything past their first initial use. The only books that don't last for 100 hours are the early game books like the light book and the learning book. And how would the game be improved if Wickerbottom was nerfed and she could no longer, in the scenario where both she and Maxwell join the server together, share her silly little learning and light books with Maxwell? How is Wickerbottom losing that team synergy going to improve the character?

This is just plain false and shows you want her abilities but on a character you feel is more fun and my question to that is how does a character you find more fun stealing her entire kit not negatively impact that character? There's no logic behind it play the character if you like her abilities what you are proposing is like if instead of improving less popular characters with updates we just ported their best abilities to more popular characters where is the logic? How does removing it improve Wickerbottom? Because she has something you can't get from others like how Maxwell's has his codex. Like why not let everyone use his codex? It's not like his minions wouldn't be super helpful to everyone no?

 

[Nikki Darks]

I will say this one last time, but there's no worse feeling in DST (at least to me) than picking one of my favourite characters, having fun with my items and then a Maxwell joins the server and starts using my books, leaving me feeling like I might as well leave or swap to someone else because my character is now completely obsolete.

Idk why people fail to realize how this can be a problem.

I wouldn't want this for any other character I play, I don't want people having BERNIE! without needing a Willow, or people just being able to summon their own Abigail.

Edited Friday at 02:52 PM by Nikki Darks

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Nikki Darks said:

Except that once she crafts all the needed books + bookshelf she is no longer needed and is somewhat of a wasted character slot due to Maxwell having infinite durability books.

True and i agree if solo world.

My experience play with friend goes different:

By the time all the books/ book shelf are finished the world is no longer needed because all bosses are finished.
By the time i finished grass/twigs/stone fruit farm, they finished ruin/ pearl quest, And we about to fight both CK and shadow creatures.
By the time i finished adding monkey tail to the farm, start farming paper on filling the cases, CC and AFW battle are on the line and we about to kill them.
By the time i finished bird farm, and start farming birb, other also farming shadow/lunar materials.
By the time all the farm i need are done, people are bored and about to regen the world.

[Nikki Darks]

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

True and i agree if solo world.

My experience play with friend goes different:

By the time all the books/ book shelf are finished the world is no longer needed because all bosses are finished.
By the time i finished grass/twigs/stone fruit farm, they finished ruin/ pearl quest, And we about to fight both CK and shadow creatures.
By the time i finished adding monkey tail to the farm, start farming paper on filling the cases, CC and AFW battle are on the line and we about to kill them.
By the time i finished bird farm, and start farming birb, other also farming shadow/lunar materials.
By the time all the farm i need are done, people are bored and about to regen the world.

This made me feel so old bro... I still go to swamp to grow reeds for papyrus... 👴

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Yes other can help, and they will all help, but you are not their boss to order everyone around. Unless everyone is speed runner and have pre communication that who does what at which time, if you ask a wendy to go raid monkey island for you and they agreed to, it probably take 10~20 days (gather bananas in cave, make boat, find monquay...). Everyone, include wicker will still do their job at their own pace as you said.

Correct but they aren't yours either and her only contribution is not just resource generation. If they aren't willing to put in the work they simple won't reap as much benefits.

 

13 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Yes it kinda is when compare to wendy farming spider. You literally can afk and go toilet while abigail auto agroo nearby spider for free silk.
For wicker, maxwell, one missclick/over click on book case = 1 book lost. You have to constantly fight nightmare creature if you dont have bone helm. Even if your friend fight them for you, you dont gain sanity so it best if just you kill the nightmare.

Your books literally counter this by producing sanity food. Also the only way you go insane from casting is by being reckless or greedy you need a good deal of casts to remove 250 sanity. Nothing about that is hard unless you make it hard.

[Tranoze]

4 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

This made me feel so old bro... I still go to swamp to grow reeds for papyrus... 👴

9 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

a Maxwell joins the server and starts using my books

10 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

having fun with my items

What if i tell you you can ask the Maxwell to go to swamp and grow reeds and you can make more books to have fun, together?

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Your books literally counter this by producing sanity food. Also the only way you go insane from casting is by being reckless or greedy you need a good deal of casts to remove 250 sanity. Nothing about that is hard unless you make it hard.

It not hard, it just work when compare to Wendy farming spider ability. Book are not magically there for free. Playing wicker from start mean you have to farm every single book include sanity food farming book, with or without the help of your friends.

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Correct but they aren't yours either and her only contribution is not just resource generation. If they aren't willing to put in the work they simple won't reap as much benefits.

If i play Wicker and my friends goes starve on grass/twigs, that my fault. Not on my watch, as they always provide me ruins gears, monquay resources, lunar resources, ocean resources...

[Nikki Darks]

11 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

What if i tell you you can ask the Maxwell to go to swamp and grow reeds and you can make more books to have fun, together?

I mean, why not have someone else go use the Abigail to fight mobs while Wendy sits in base doing nothing?

Essentially what you just said.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

It not hard, it just work when compare to Wendy farming spider ability. Book are not magically there for free. Playing wicker from start mean you have to farm every single book include sanity food farming book, with or without the help of your friends.

True but killing spiders and bending the games very mechanics are on a different level. Even then everyone has to get their own stuff too that journey exists for nearly every character I mean look at Walter or heck even Wendy has things she needs to do to use her stuff.

11 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

If i play Wicker and my friends goes starve on grass/twigs, that my fault. Not on my watch, as they always provide me ruins gears, monquay resources, lunar resources, ocean resources...

It's admirable but also just your choice.

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Nikki Darks said:

I mean, why not have someone else go use the Abigail to fight mobs while Wendy sits in base doing nothing?

Essentially what you just said.

This is what i loved most from her skill tree during Wendy skill tree beta. You can dock Abigail in a Sisturn and let her auto farm spider while you doing base stuff. Too bad they removed it.

7 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

I mean, why not have someone else go use the Abigail to fight mobs while Wendy sits in base doing nothing?

Essentially what you just said.

If doing Wendy thing, i think everyone should be able to help pipspook with less mourning glory. They are cute and everyone should have one following around.

[Cheggf]

37 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You mean aside from giving her a unique identity and playstyle the oje thing you want in a game with multiple supposedly unique characters and if lore is your fall guy I once again ask why Wanda and Wortox can't use them?

 

 

 

Warly's a different case not only is he not cutoff from the loop but his role is more so like Wigfrid's shareable gear their things persist when they are gone but if you use their stuff often you need them around or need to switch back eventually to take advantage of their kit he isn't removed from the equation because you stocked up on his bundled dishes.

Based on what? Do you ever stop needing resources? Then her books will always have a use. Also you can't be serious if you are saying you farm 100 hours worth of resources straight if you are then just play the character no? If you are only ever using her books once then that just shows what's wrong with the exchange her books have plenty of uses in the day to day but because you throw another character on top of her you only focus on her strongest abilities then ditch her. There's no fun interaction or neat gameplay synergy you are jut squeezing a character for all you assume they are worth then tossing them to the side for the character who can use her "good abilities" further proving this is a harmful design for the character in question.

This is just plain false and shows you want her abilities but on a character you feel is more fun and my question to that is how does a character you find more fun stealing her entire kit not negatively impact that character? There's no logic behind it play the character if you like her abilities what you are proposing is like if instead of improving less popular characters with updates we just ported their best abilities to more popular characters where is the logic? How does removing it improve Wickerbottom? Because she has something you can't get from others like how Maxwell's has his codex. Like why not let everyone use his codex? It's not like his minions wouldn't be super helpful to everyone no?

 

I never play Maxwell he's the most boring dude ever. Your entire premise is trying to dismantle a strawman where I want this character to do something because I play the character. As I thought was evident by me constantly complaining about how boring and overpowered he is, I never play him. He is basically not on the roster for me. 

[Mysterious box]

36 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I never play Maxwell he's the most boring dude ever. Your entire premise is trying to dismantle a strawman where I want this character to do something because I play the character. As I thought was evident by me constantly complaining about how boring and overpowered he is, I never play him. He is basically not on the roster for me. 

And yet nothing else was addressed from my reply hmm.

 

You can call it a strawman but based on how you represented your previous reply that was the conclusion reached if you truly think that was a strawman then explain how it was beyond saying just you don't even play Maxwell and he's boring.

Edited Friday at 04:05 PM by Mysterious box

[Crazy Gorilla]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You guys never make a case for why the ability should be removed. Out of the million things Maxwell does this one almost useless lore thing is what you take issue with. Almost every book is exclusively used once, and then it's useless for like 100 real life hours. It doesn't matter that Maxwell can get infinite plant material when you only need to do that once then you have enough for 100 hours. It doesn't matter that Maxwell can set up a boss farm when you only need to do that once then it's going to work for 100 hours. Wickerbottom's books don't do anything past their first initial use. The only books that don't last for 100 hours are the early game books like the light book and the learning book.

Actually just false. I don't know how long you've played as Wicker for but I have played long term worlds with her and I used at least half of her books on a consistent basis. I am not arguing that she couldn't do better, but I think whether or not her books are good or bad is honestly kind of irrelevant to this discussion. 100 hours is actually insane too, I know you were probably being hyperbolic but you don't even need to test that to know its not true.

 

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Should nobody be able to eat Warly's food and he's the only one who can eat it, so you can completely kill the character's goal of cooperation all for some vein attempt at making him seem unique? Should Warly's only unique thing be taken away from him so he's homogenized with the rest and you can pretend he's now unique? 

I don't see how bringing up Warly is supposed to support your point that others should be able to share abilities. Nobody plays Warly for this exact reason. Im not advocating that he shouldn't be able to share his dishes obviously, but you bring up this point as if Warly is a fan favorite pick and not someone that everyone is unanimously agrees needs to be buffed.

Just because non wicker players will switch to her occasionally to farm like krampus sacks or resources or whatnot does not mean shes nothing but a swap character and provides nothing but quicker resource growth. That's a part of her kit yes, but that is not the experience if you actually played her.
I think you have the impression that people think the sole reason Wicker is bad is because of Maxwell, and maybe some do but I certainly don't. She 100% would need improvements even AFTER that but the core issue is that whatever little reason some people had left to play as her is nullified by the fact that her ENTIRE gimmick is uprooted and given to Maxwell. You could tell me you use her books when you want to mass farm grass or twigs or dragonfruit or whatever else. But nobody is swapping to her for full moons every night, or any time they want rain toggled, or every time they want a spotlight over their garden or base, or want to prototype away from a science/magic station. 

Main point is the argument that she is a boring or bad character is not a justification for why Maxwell should be able to use her abilities and honestly even if you think there is no reason to play specifically as her to access her perks, how does it make any sense from a balance standpoint that Maxwell is the only other character that can benefit from this?

[Arepantera]

4 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

We say: "The reason why it's not a good game mechanic is because it's Wickerbottom's core identity being taken by another character, rendering staying as Wickerbottom objectively pointless due to books being HER core identity."

Because she doesn't have an identity, her books are a clutch for players that aren't good at planing.
Like, what can wickerbottom do that other characters or items can't do?

Getting more resources?
Good, but a gold shovel can do that too. Spend 8 minutes getting those saplings, plant them around your base and there you go.
Wickerbottom lost her identity to a golden shovel.
Wickerbottom can make them regrow instantly? Yeah but now you have 100 twigs and will get 100 more every few days, so you're pretty much fine, this is only a problem if, again, the player is bad at planing

Getting a lot of food?
That's cool and all, but this is also something that can be easily done by other characters and items. If you want infinite food, then stone bushes easily give you that.
Want healing food?
Wendy walks around the forest and has a lot of MM that she later can turn into eggs and she can make easy pierogis.
Want sanity food instead of healing food?
Fine, Wortox can do the same thing Wendy does, but he can also TP to the monkey's island every day to get one free banana bush per day, making it so everyone can have banana shakes for infinite sanity.
You can also just dry kelp or meat.
Wickerbottom lost her identity to any character that has AoE damage, to kelp and to stone bushes.

Her other books are just weak gimmicks, her battle gimmicks are also way too bad to actually use in battle.
Slowing down your enemy? Kinda cute but that's it.
Making yoir enemy go to sleep? You better make sure your enemy has a huge distance from you because that long animation will make that book very impractical, so you'll end up using the panflute or you'll just learn to kill that enemy the normal way.
Bees? Useful only against bosses that can't AoE, so useless 80% of the time.
Infinite full moons? That's cool but the moonstorms do the same thing, so this book is only "useful" during the early game.
She can start rains? Any character can do it with the Telelocator staff.
She can stop rains? This might legitimately be her one and only unique abilty that no one else can emulate in some way or another, however this also loses value if players are somewhat good as they should know how to make gear with rain protection.

She's just not a good character, she's a character whose identity can only be seen by those who aren't good at the game and if the argument is reliant on the player being bad, then it's not a good argument.
Wickerbottom needs a rework and a good skilltree, nerfing maxwell will not make her less boring or have more identity, she will still be a swap character that gets used once and then never again once the base's food production and resource production become good enough by itself.

[sarreos]

I don't think he should be able to read them, at least not without changing how it currently works. It makes wicker obsolete when you can just switch to maxwell after crafting the books and still benefit from them.

[Nikki Darks]

1 hour ago, Arepantera said:

Because she doesn't have an identity, her books are a clutch for players that aren't good at planing.
Like, what can wickerbottom do that other characters or items can't do?

She does have an identity though, her items are her core identity. 

She is the embodiment of the word "utility". She is a jack of all trades, a book for every occasion.

As to what she can do that others cannot. She greatly and rapidly amasses a vast variety of resources.

Pigskin? Lunar Grimoire. Grass and Twigs? Silviculture. Specific boss drops? On Tentacles. Etc, etc.

She is just the "Jack of all trades" character of DST, and it's what Wickerbottom players like about her.

Being able to quickly provide more grass and twigs for my friends right after they picked them all.

Quickly summoning a full moon in case they need the light or want to do the staff quest.

Help do more damage with my bees or farm a boss with my tentacles.

Don't be disingenuous like the other people on this post. She has an identity and an appeal.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Arepantera said:

Because she doesn't have an identity, her books are a clutch for players that aren't good at planing.
Like, what can wickerbottom do that other characters or items can't do?

Getting more resources?
Good, but a gold shovel can do that too. Spend 8 minutes getting those saplings, plant them around your base and there you go.
Wickerbottom lost her identity to a golden shovel.
Wickerbottom can make them regrow instantly? Yeah but now you have 100 twigs and will get 100 more every few days, so you're pretty much fine, this is only a problem if, again, the player is bad at planing

Getting a lot of food?
That's cool and all, but this is also something that can be easily done by other characters and items. If you want infinite food, then stone bushes easily give you that.
Want healing food?
Wendy walks around the forest and has a lot of MM that she later can turn into eggs and she can make easy pierogis.
Want sanity food instead of healing food?
Fine, Wortox can do the same thing Wendy does, but he can also TP to the monkey's island every day to get one free banana bush per day, making it so everyone can have banana shakes for infinite sanity.
You can also just dry kelp or meat.
Wickerbottom lost her identity to any character that has AoE damage, to kelp and to stone bushes.

Her other books are just weak gimmicks, her battle gimmicks are also way too bad to actually use in battle.
Slowing down your enemy? Kinda cute but that's it.
Making yoir enemy go to sleep? You better make sure your enemy has a huge distance from you because that long animation will make that book very impractical, so you'll end up using the panflute or you'll just learn to kill that enemy the normal way.
Bees? Useful only against bosses that can't AoE, so useless 80% of the time.
Infinite full moons? That's cool but the moonstorms do the same thing, so this book is only "useful" during the early game.
She can start rains? Any character can do it with the Telelocator staff.
She can stop rains? This might legitimately be her one and only unique abilty that no one else can emulate in some way or another, however this also loses value if players are somewhat good as they should know how to make gear with rain protection.

She's just not a good character, she's a character whose identity can only be seen by those who aren't good at the game and if the argument is reliant on the player being bad, then it's not a good argument.
Wickerbottom needs a rework and a good skilltree, nerfing maxwell will not make her less boring or have more identity, she will still be a swap character that gets used once and then never again once the base's food production and resource production become good enough by itself.

Strange you just described skill tree abilities and people seem to love those.

Also let's really examine her kit beyond just her speedy growth abilities which mind you are still really amazing at all stages of the game. Light book that can allow crops to grow at night if you want to properly farm or just want to fight in an area with relying on just a lantern or other light equipment, temperature book that allows you to move long term without taking a break for heating up stones or raising your temp with fire, grumble bees to help you with day to day combat, boom to extinguish fires caused by lightning or wildfires while generating a free fire staff, book that slows enemies down which more or less translates to increased movement speed in a fight, and turning off darkness and easy farming of moon related events. You guys act like she has nothing to offer beyond just the standard resource generation she does but it's just a flimsy excuse.

The funniest part is you guys keep claiming removing it from Maxwell won't make a difference while clinging so hard to her supposedly useless abilities it's just so blatantly obvious that it's kinda impressive.

 

[Lumina]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

There is no added fun to Wickerbottom because there is no synergy it's just another character doing her things better. It's kinda a tired saying at this point but if someone else took Abigail under the context of sparing Wendy from farming spiders that would not make Wendy any better or synergistic especially when Wickerbottom has solutions for her problems built into her kit. Actual synergy would be how Wes, Walter, Wendy, and Willow can use their sanity perks to help Wickerbottom to help her recover from low sanity fast because in these scenarios her role isn't being replaced she's being supported to perform her best at what she excels at.

Your example is another kind of synergy. You may not like the one i suggest, but it would be one. Several characters can make items for others survivor to use while keeping their identity. Wickerbottom making some books for Maxwell to use would be akin to that in my approach. She would keep most of the stuff her's, just share some.

6 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

And again, I don't hear people advocating for everyone to get their own Abigail, Codex Umbra or mightiness.

It's always Wickerbottom's abilities being passed around and shared, nobody else's.

That may be because it's already how it is in the game. It would be more fair to compare this to webber/wurt capacity to create followers, and say wurt should have this ability removed. Maybe the solution is to make so both npcs are more distinct in how they do thing rather than removing entirely something.

6 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

I will say this one last time, but there's no worse feeling in DST (at least to me) than picking one of my favourite characters, having fun with my items and then a Maxwell joins the server and starts using my books, leaving me feeling like I might as well leave or swap to someone else because my character is now completely obsolete.

Idk why people fail to realize how this can be a problem.

A good portion of the thread is people suggesting various solutions about this exact problem, and a good portion of the poll result is either no (majority of answer at the moment) and "yes with restriction", so i would say there is a fair bit of realisation overall, people do like to discuss about things, and try to provide what they consider the most interesting solution.

 

 

Another suggestion in complement of the one already made : Make the bookshelf unique to wickerbottom. Since part of the issue is "storing books and waiting for them to regenerate while swapping characters", this would ensure that wicker would be the one benefiting of that regen in practice. Sure, Maxwell could try to hammer the bookcase to get books but then would not be able to place them inside again, anyway, so there would be no real interest of doing that. Of course, someone really determinate could swap to wicker every time to restock the books but i don't think it's really an approach that will be of interest, especially if paired with the already suggested options of limiting maxwell's reading one way or another.

 

 

Also, in my opinion, while wickerbottom is caring a lot about books it would be time for her to do other things too. For me a lot of the context of this discussion is in the larger frame of characters getting rework/skill tree. Maxwell keeping the ability to read some books will be way less of an issue if Wicker gets a bit more interesting outside of that. And Wicker is one of my favorite characters (early backpack my beloved), so i do really like the idea of her having more things to play with;