more backups please

[splorange]

I understand why it is necessary for WX to have a limit on backups, but the current limit is a bit too limiting. With the current limit, I am not able to do all the things I wish I could do in regards to fulfilling tasks.

To me the fantasy that the skill tree is trying to sell is having specialized WXs that can fulfill a specific purpose by either having different circuits, items prepared in the inventory, and/or a good placement on the map. This is where WX shines in my opinion, other characters have to constantly swap gear to get something done meanwhile a good WX backup is ready to get the task done immediately. However, when you only have 3 backups, the idea kinda falls flat. I can’t justify creating a WX specifically for chopping trees using the chorus box and infinite storage circuits (two circuits I wouldn’t see myself use otherwise) because I would rather have a WX that is efficient in killing Celestial Champion instead. Cool ideas get thrown out the window simply because of the limit of backups.

I think the backup limit should be increased to 10. Having this many backups still enforces players getting out of hand by crafting too many while still providing more than enough freedom to do most things.

[Captain_Rage]

It is a skill issue.

[splorange]

26 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

It is a skill issue.

Thanks for the thoughtful input. It reminds me why people don't like coming here!

Let's try this again, why do you think this is a "skill issue"? I'm fine with any response to the post opposing or supporting the opinion as long as you think about it before you post it.

[ZeRoboButler]

Well... I mean technically, If you do have caves active you have 6, so if you really wanted to you could set up some bodies with stuff you would prefer and keep them near the cave exit. If this is more of a teleporting thing then I could see a point for 1 more per shard, but I don't really see a way to increase that without messing with the additional design component of the extra bodies being rez points. 

I found myself placing one body near the goats for scans and easy access to ant-lion later on, then I had one near bee queen with electrical circuits for spring kills, and one on pearls temporarily so could do her task on my own time. Once I was done with the body on pearls, I moved it over to lunar so I could quickly deposit Celestial champion materials like charged moon-glass. 

Try it out like that, perhaps this will feel better.  

[Captain_Rage]

5 minutes ago, splorange said:

Thanks for the thoughtful input. It reminds me why people don't like coming here!

Let's try this again, why do you think this is a "skill issue"? I'm fine with any response to the post opposing or supporting the opinion as long as you think about it before you post it.

Because it is an issue with a skill. Correct? Maybe I misunderstood your post.

[Jakepeng99]

10 is way way too much. 
 

3 is decent since you get 4 total. Technically 8 since caves. Why should it be able to have a WX for everything? Including really niche things.

You can have a Standard WX, One for Resource gathering and farming (Chorus box), One for combat, and the 2 others for whatever you want, like one for the ruins or one on the CC island.

You can just change the circuits and purpouse of these backups if you want it for something else.

You won’t be able to get everything you want covered just like you can’t have every skill. They could add more skills that give you extra slots if anything.

Edited March 27 by Jakepeng99

[ZeRoboButler]

12 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

3 is decent since you get 4 total. Technically 8 since caves. Why should it be able to have a WX for everything? Including really niche things.

Now that I think about it... isn't it more like 7 since the body your presently in doesn't count and it's 3 per shard?

[splorange]

14 minutes ago, ZeRoboButler said:

Well... I mean technically, If you do have caves active you have 6, so if you really wanted to you could set up some bodies with stuff you would prefer and keep them near the cave exit. If this is more of a teleporting thing then I could see a point for 1 more per shard, but I don't really see a way to increase that without messing with the additional design component of the extra bodies being rez points. 

I found myself placing one body near the goats for scans and easy access to ant-lion later on, then I had one near bee queen with electrical circuits for spring kills, and one on pearls temporarily so could do her task on my own time. Once I was done with the body on pearls, I moved it over to lunar so I could quickly deposit Celestial champion materials like charged moon-glass. 

Try it out like that, perhaps this will feel better.  

The world generation of my current world is kinda all over the place, pearl's island and lunar is nowhere near so if I need to interact with Pearl I would either need to have a backup specifically for her (since she is across the world) or spend the time travelling which feels a bit lame when I'm investing a couple skill points for extra backups and map teleportation.

I know comparison is not the best practice but I feel like I will eventually get fatigued of managing too little backups and eventually just decide that it's more convenient and less of a hassle to swap to a TP character that doesn't experience any of these limitations. I enjoy the material management and micro-management aspect of WX but for my playstyle they just feel too limited.

[ZeRoboButler]

Ah well that I understand, Winona spoiled me for a while with her Tp network and little sorting bots, but in terms of what is effectively a zero cost one time investment warp, it is pretty good. We still need to see what the other benefits from the affinities and the entire gamma circuits are so who knows, we still got some neat stuff coming.

The teleport may seem less appealing or even have synergies with affinities, best to hold some judgments till then...  

Edited March 27 by ZeRoboButler

[Electroely]

I'd like to be able to place more backups as well because the current limit feels a bit too restrictive. There's a lot of different things you can do with the chassis - taking into account that each one is effectively a different loadout of circuits, a potential teleport and an engine for certain circuits to always be active - and 3 backups (+ the main body) isn't enough to make any particularly unique loadout worth using due to opportunity cost late-game. Not to say the character isn't already a lot of fun as-is, but I think being able to place just a couple more backups would open up a lot more possibilities, especially with the skill that allows Beta circuits to run passively (which I think goes almost entirely unused right now besides putting a chorusbox circuit on the base chassis so it tends to crops.)

I don't think having more backups is inherently too powerful. I think it's good to have a limit so WX players aren't leaving heater/light source chassis everywhere, but I think bumping up the number of backup chassis from 3 to say, 5 or 6 wouldn't break the character.

If anything, the strongest part of the chassis right now is their ability to transfer stats from a WX with 200 hunger and 250 health (with a 50% reduced hunger drain on top of that) to a WX with 100 health and 100 hunger. Stat management on my beta world so far has been completely trivial because I effectively get x4 hunger from transferring to my base/farming chassis to eat and transferring back to my main chassis, which gets full health and a shield thanks to the Beanbooster circuit. And when it's time to fight something big, I switch to my combat chassis which makes my health jump up to 600 (an amount that would be tedious to heal up if I didn't get x6 the actual health by switching to a weaker chassis to heal)

Fixing this interaction with chassis would do infinitely more to balance out WX-78's power level than having a small limit on backup chassis does. I don't want the game to be easier by having more chassis available, I just want more opportunities for new ways to play.

Edited March 27 by Electroely

[Ev1l]

2 hours ago, splorange said:

The world generation of my current world is kinda all over the place, pearl's island and lunar is nowhere near so if I need to interact with Pearl I would either need to have a backup specifically for her (since she is across the world) or spend the time travelling which feels a bit lame when I'm investing a couple skill points for extra backups and map teleportation.

I know comparison is not the best practice but I feel like I will eventually get fatigued of managing too little backups and eventually just decide that it's more convenient and less of a hassle to swap to a TP character that doesn't experience any of these limitations. I enjoy the material management and micro-management aspect of WX but for my playstyle they just feel too limited.

Its because you die to leave the caves and vice-versa. You leave the old one behind and charlie eats it when you go back. 

 

Source: https://imadeitup.net/liegenerator/

[Ridley]

I think the current amount of chassises are good. I have one in both my surface and cave camp that also do map scanning, one at Pearl's and one at the Pseudoscience station, and two extra I haven't decided how I want to use yet. I am ping ponging between them all the time to transfer drones and such. When the map scanning and Pearl's is done, I will recycle them into something else.

Asking for more chassises reminds me of the more inventory slots discussions. The limitations force you to make decisions and decisions are interesting to make.

[Ruperstiltskin]

19 minutes ago, Ridley said:

Asking for more chassises reminds me of the more inventory slots discussions. The limitations force you to make decisions and decisions are interesting to make.

This! If you want free tps just stick with a free tp char, i find wx chassis more like multitasking or being in various places at the same time, you could do so much more than simply tp

[Kvetevk]

People here seems to forget that chassis is not only a tool for teleport but also a life giving amulet that is pretty cheap earlygame, at least life giving amulet can be used by everyone but chassis is only for the owner. Having the option to have more could not only be a waste to red gems but also make the chassis far more superior than other skills.

[aidancode]

7 hours ago, splorange said:

I think the backup limit should be increased to 10.

I actually agree for the most part, but 10 is too much. Maybe this could be tied to some new item. Maybe they could add a skill that lets you build "tier 2 chassis" or something like that that are functionally identical except they are more expensive. That way late game players would get more without it infringing on the balance of the early game. That could honestly work as an affinity imo.

[HowlVoid]

I feel like really versatile abilities are supposed to come with constraints. The players has to choose where to make the most of those abilities. I feel like where its at now feels like a sweetspot. Not sure how something can be so limiting when the character was great before. This is an immense bonus on top of all their other bonuses.

Edited March 27 by HowlVoid

[Jakepeng99]

21 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

Now that I think about it... isn't it more like 7 since the body your presently in doesn't count and it's 3 per shard?

Maybe

[FluffyBun]

21 hours ago, splorange said:

Thanks for the thoughtful input. It reminds me why people don't like coming here!

Let's try this again, why do you think this is a "skill issue"? I'm fine with any response to the post opposing or supporting the opinion as long as you think about it before you post it.

Experienced players will simply build 10 item transporters and send them back with something like 1 twig each, manually pluck out their circuits and replace them with new ones, and complain that WX is "too overpowered" because of instantaneous teleportation.

Ignore the fact that transportation technology is a key feature in the progression of ANY game which involves a large area, and that DST does not really punish low map mobility (unlike, say, Hamlet)

[Cheggf]

The current amount is perfect. You have to choose between free easy teleports, or various different chassis applications. I don't get why people are trying to argue that it's a problem that you don't have enough chassis to teleport to every location you want and have enough configurations for every application you want. Is it also a problem that you only have 15 skill points instead of 30 and can't claim everything on the tree? Making choices is good, having everything is bad. You choose to play WX, you choose what skills you want, then you choose how you use those skills. The more steps of choosing you remove the less room for individuality, expression, and varying playstyles there are.

Right now I could have one playthrough where I focus on having a bunch of different chassis setups, and another playthrough where I focus on a teleporting network, and those two playthroughs would be considerably different from each-other despite both of them being on WX-78. If he had two or three times as many husks like you guys are proposing that wouldn't really happen. Every playthrough you'd have more than enough husks to both have the teleport network to every location you want and have a bunch of bodies set up for different builds. 

Edited March 29 by Cheggf

[AverageWurtMain]

I honestly struggle to understand why chassis have a limit imposed in the first place. Revives don't make sense because there is no difference between having a lot of pre-crafted revives and crafting a new one every time you use one. The interest generated by choice within a bound doesn't make sense because the same could be said of anything, such as Winona's generators or Wickerbottom's books. My understanding is that almost everything in the game already has a bound to work within: the material cost. Wickerbottom is not unable to craft every book, it is just that the usefulness and cost of the items balance out such that most players will choose to only craft a handful of these books.
If chassis worked similarly, most players would find a spot they prefer. Many would probably use only 3 or so, but every once and a while a player may have the resources and will to craft an absurd amount, such as 10.

I don't understand why the amount of chassis players have is not balanced by the price set to craft them.

[Cheggf]

42 minutes ago, AverageWurtMain said:

I honestly struggle to understand why chassis have a limit imposed in the first place. Revives don't make sense because there is no difference between having a lot of pre-crafted revives and crafting a new one every time you use one. The interest generated by choice within a bound doesn't make sense because the same could be said of anything, such as Winona's generators or Wickerbottom's books. My understanding is that almost everything in the game already has a bound to work within: the material cost. Wickerbottom is not unable to craft every book, it is just that the usefulness and cost of the items balance out such that most players will choose to only craft a handful of these books.
If chassis worked similarly, most players would find a spot they prefer. Many would probably use only 3 or so, but every once and a while a player may have the resources and will to craft an absurd amount, such as 10.

I don't understand why the amount of chassis players have is not balanced by the price set to craft them.

A husk is just a red gem, the limitation is not in the crafting recipe at all. I can guarantee you that the amount of players that would prefer the current implementation over an implementation where husks are really expensive and require a lot of late game resources is orders of magnitude greater. 

Edited March 29 by Cheggf

[Chesterxito]

3 backups feel perfect imo, if more, ppl wil just exploit them for way easier free tp's or exploit warm standby, making a bunch of pseudo elastispaced chests/infinite light sources . Either case, I feel wx is strong enough already, plenty of stuff in the skill tree, and we are still missing gamma circuits and affinities.

[AverageWurtMain]

22 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

A husk is just a red gem, the limitation is not in the crafting recipe at all. I can guarantee you that the amount of players that would prefer the current implementation over an implementation where husks are really expensive and require a lot of late game resources is orders of magnitude greater. 

I never suggested pushing it late-game. There are ways to make items rare throughout a whole play through while also being accessible early in the game. Consider, for example, how contested walrus tusks become when playing with Wandas. I think a similar solution could work for WX, where an accessible but sparse resource is required.

[reddocc]

I had a vision 

[ZeRoboButler]

59 minutes ago, reddocc said:

I had a vision 

Honestly I am Kinda surprised Wx doesn't have a perk to make it's other bodies active like a small robot brigade.

"my minions have failed me, I shall show them how it is done" 

Wx has that kind of ego I imagine.