Thulecite club could use a buff

[Hungry French]

On 18.10.2025 at 23:08, AliceShiki said:

Можно, просто это довольно сложно, и в этом отчасти заключается удовольствие от боя. Похоже, ты говоришь о том, что никогда не пробовал активно откатывать миры, чтобы потренироваться. Если бы ты пробовал, то знал бы, что от этого можно увернуться, просто нужно точно рассчитать время.

На самом деле я не очень хорошо рассчитываю время, если это имеет значение. Я видел на YouTube видео о том, как это делается, но не смог повторить стратегию, поэтому вместо этого решил выдержать один удар и уклониться от следующего (из-за расположения было легче уклониться от удара, если ты уже получил удар от предыдущего), а затем попытался использовать щит Вигфрида, чтобы заблокировать удар, который я планировал выдержать... Но если вы достаточно хороши, то сможете избежать всего этого.

What I can say is that a fly that can't hit you only when you dodge it during animation is using bugs. Because the main idea of the original RoG fly is that it attacks in motion and you need speed to dodge it.
No fire form to dodge. After attacking the area, she immediately makes a close-range attack, which is why there will be no timing bug to dodge. And it is impossible to dodge it as in DS while running. The only really honest way to avoid it without bugs is to use a lazy researcher, but I've never seen anyone do that anywhere.

On 10/18/2025 at 11:08 PM, AliceShiki said:

Those aren't bugs.

This is just a reference to the blunt-nosed behavior of Lavae, who need to remove their attachment to the player and add aggression to the walls.

On 10/18/2025 at 11:08 PM, AliceShiki said:

They're very different fights, and I have no idea how you're even trying to compare them.

- Both have a single attack that requires a certain number of hits.
- Both often spawn as minions in battle
- The real difference from Spider Queen is her stats and fire form. It's all.

On 10/18/2025 at 11:08 PM, AliceShiki said:

It was very fun to me, either way. But if you don't find it fun, then the cheese is there for you.

The fact is that cheese doesn't help combat. It makes an already long and protracted battle even more boring and easier. And the problem is its duration. The fly, like other Raid bosses, is just bad. Few attacks - a lot of HP. The balance is broken. 
The only cool raid boss is Warbot. Well, maybe Daywalker, but I hate it when the boss stupidly falls to the floor for 5 seconds, it's too much.

 

On 10/18/2025 at 11:08 PM, AliceShiki said:

You seem to be talking about something you never really tried to actively rollback worlds to practice against. If you had, you'd know that it is possible to dodge it, it just has a pretty strict timing.

I've tested and killed many times. Even with its different characteristics, behavior, etc. Even with the classic attack of a character from DS.
But the whole fight is literally built on cheese. Or it implies that cheese is the main tactic.

Klei saved it for the team. And apparently, the ability to tank the boss was like a mandatory part of the boss because of her movements undodge without cheese.

 

[brednas7]

With a ruins rush or the early game in general living logs are somewhat rare (unless a Wormwood is on the server) and got more important things to make with it. Thulecite Club is just to expansive for it's cost, just reduce it's cost a little (2 living logs, 3 thulecite and 3 nightmare fuel I suggest) and maybe buff it's speed buff a little (as long as it stays below walking cane's speed buff).

Hungry French, people got different play styles, some take a slow but steady approach and others rush to it. If you find the game gets to easy for you, try to find a way to challenge yourself like trying a speed running, doing a run science less or with any other kind of restrictions.

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

What I can say is that a fly that can't hit you only when you dodge it during animation is using bugs.

It does not use bugs, you simply need to dodge it during the attack animation like every other attack in the game.

The only difference is that the timing of this one is hard because dodging too early will make the Dragonfly chase after you, which makes the dodging impossible.

If you're adjacent to the Dragonfly and have a road nearby, you can actually hit her thrice and run through the road and dodge the attack, by the way. Pretty easy to replicate.

The problem is dodging the next attack after that, because you will no longer be adjacent to her, so the timing is no longer the same. At this point the timing is more like... Hit her twice, take a small step back, wait a bit, then run... It's really hard to actually make that one work.

None of that is buggy in any way. It's just tight timing.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

- Both have a single attack that requires a certain number of hits.
- Both often spawn as minions in battle

So... Bee Queen and Ancient Fuelweaver are also the same as the Spider Queen?

Okay.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

But the whole fight is literally built on cheese.

You can beat it without cheese just fine. It just needs practice.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

because of her movements undodge without cheese.

That is plain false.

[Hungry French]

Just now, AliceShiki said:

В нём не используются жуки, вам просто нужно уклоняться от него во время анимации атаки, как и от любой другой атаки в игре.

Разница лишь в том, что в этот раз сложно рассчитать время, потому что если вы уклонитесь слишком рано, стрекоза погонится за вами, и уклониться будет невозможно.

Если вы находитесь рядом со Стрекозой и поблизости есть дорога, вы можете трижды ударить её, пробежать по дороге и уклониться от атаки. Это довольно легко повторить.

Проблема в том, чтобы уклониться от следующей атаки, потому что вы больше не будете находиться рядом с ней, а значит, время будет другим. В этот момент время больше похоже на... Дважды ударьте её, сделайте небольшой шаг назад, немного подождите, а затем бегите... На самом деле это очень сложно провернуть.

Ничто из этого не является ошибкой. Просто нужно правильно рассчитать время.

I know how it works. The fact that she only doesn't move at a certain time when she attacks is just an animation bug. She shouldn't be killed without acceleration. This is the original idea of the boss.

Just now, AliceShiki said:

Значит... Королева пчёл и Древний Ткач — это то же самое, что Королева пауков?

The queen bee is more interesting. She has an attack that makes bees angrier. And this is a boss with minions, the point of which is not to kill minions at all.

Ancient Fuelweaver is better. He's just good. Although 10,000 hp for the second phase is a joke.

Just now, AliceShiki said:

You can beat it without cheese just fine. It just needs practice.

Let's see how you kill her No Hit without abusing her vulnerability. This is not possible without a lazy researcher.

Just now, AliceShiki said:

That is plain false.

Try to dodge her after she stops spawning lavae. Without pausing the damage animation.

[AliceShiki]

11 hours ago, Hungry French said:

The fact that she only doesn't move at a certain time when she attacks is just an animation bug.

That is not a bug. it's how the boss works.

11 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Let's see how you kill her No Hit without abusing her vulnerability. This is not possible without a lazy researcher.

Me? No, I'm not good enough at the game to No Hit anything tougher than a Beefalo.... Guille though? Here's one video of him doing it with Wes:

I think this one is animation-canceling, since it's hitting Dragonfly 7x per normal cycle, I'm pretty sure... So here is one video that is almost 100% hitless, but without it.

So... Well, you're plain and simply wrong about it requiring Lazy Explorer.

11 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Try to dodge her after she stops spawning lavae. Without pausing the damage animation.

As in, you want to finish the fight without taking damage without using a ranged attack to stop her movement so that you can make her use the standing attack instead of the moving attack?

I don't know why you are specifically against using a ranged attack to make her use the standing attack, but... sure, use Wigfrid's shield or a Snurtle Shell Armor in that case. Or a Bone Armor for a post-rift option.

Edited October 20, 2025 by AliceShiki

[GreenBowers]

Tail o' Three Cats could use a buff. I saw a video suggesting that the rng fear mechanic, instead of being rng, should just be right click.

I think that would be neat, and I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to buff stuff that people never actually use, like the cat whip, and any of the darts. 

[Hungry French]

11 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Это не ошибка. Так работает босс.

No, this is a bug because the boss is programmed to attack while moving, not standing still.

11 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Me? No, I'm not good enough at the game to No Hit anything tougher than a Beefalo.... Guille though? Here's one video of him doing it with Wes:

I think this one is animation-canceling, since it's hitting Dragonfly 7x per normal cycle, I'm pretty sure... So here is one video that is almost 100% hitless, but without it.

So... Well, you're plain and simply wrong about it requiring Lazy Explorer.

Bro, he's literally using the animation of taking damage so that she doesn't move during the hit. It's an unfair way to kill her. And I mentioned that it's not allowed for no cheese boss.

11 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

As in, you want to finish the fight without taking damage without using a ranged attack to stop her movement so that you can make her use the standing attack instead of the moving attack?

I don't know why you are specifically against using a ranged attack to make her use the standing attack, but... sure, use Wigfrid's shield or a Snurtle Shell Armor in that case. Or a Bone Armor for a post-rift option.

Because it's an cheese of animations. This is the same as abusing the animation of taking damage from Spider Queen' so that she doesn't spawn spiders. Or how Toadstool can just stop growing trees...

And your examples are not fair either, because they involve taking damage from armor, but bypassing it through the player's health. And... You won't have enough armor for the fight. And using more than one set of armor is also not fair.

I doubt it' that it would work like this even if the armor had its 100% durability instead of 70%.

[Radicaljoe]

4 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Bro, he's literally using the animation of taking damage so that she doesn't move during the hit. It's an unfair way to kill her. And I mentioned that it's not allowed for no cheese boss.

As someone who has fought dfly solo like this, the damage doesn't matter at all. I've stopped hitting her to time it correctly and it still is dodgable.
And this is because you're thinking the logic for dfly wrong.

Dfly doesn't "move when attacking" Dfly keeps her momentum when attacking. So, if she's standing still her momentum is 0, which means when she goes to attack she doesn't follow you because she has no speed to follow you with. 
So no, not a bug. Not cheese.
 

 

Anyway uh...ye thulecite club is cool, could be cooler I don't mind either way.

[Bumber64]

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

No, this is a bug because the boss is programmed to attack while moving, not standing still.

Bro, he's literally using the animation of taking damage so that she doesn't move during the hit. It's an unfair way to kill her. And I mentioned that it's not allowed for no cheese boss.

All this goalpost moving and excuses just to avoid admitting that you're wrong.

[HowlVoid]

I think reducing the price by a log OR increasing the durabily are good buffs but doesnt it make more sense to make the damage more consistent? Gurantee the tentacle spawn to every third hit and balance the damage accordingly. 

Personally I prefer quality over quantity. This should really be true to every "tentacle" weapon.

[Cheggf]

21 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think reducing the price by a log OR increasing the durabily are good buffs but doesnt it make more sense to make the damage more consistent? Gurantee the tentacle spawn to every third hit and balance the damage accordingly. 

Personally I prefer quality over quantity. This should really be true to every "tentacle" weapon.

I like that shadow tentacles have the same stats as normal tentacles. It's intuitive and makes sense. 

[HowlVoid]

49 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I like that shadow tentacles have the same stats as normal tentacles. It's intuitive and makes sense. 

Oh is it? I wouldnt know without looking it up. I legit thought it was less given how much smaller it is. I actually didnt think they shared stats except for sharing a model/animations for an easy implementation. 

You can still have the rng planned around the damage instead so you dont touch it. I really just dont like damage revolving around "luck" even if its somewhat consistent. Its personally why i prefer darkswords. 

Edit: one thing i will add, the damage it does on paper and in practice varies. Since tentacles can miss when it does procc.

Edited October 21, 2025 by HowlVoid

[Hungry French]

5 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Как человек, который сражался с дфлай в одиночку, могу сказать, что урон вообще не имеет значения. Я перестал рассчитывать время для удара, и от него всё равно можно увернуться.
И это потому, что вы неправильно понимаете логику дфлай.

Dfly не «движется во время атаки». Dfly сохраняет свой импульс во время атаки. Таким образом, если она стоит на месте, её импульс равен 0, а это значит, что во время атаки она не будет преследовать вас, потому что у неё нет скорости, чтобы преследовать вас.
Так что нет, это не баг. И не читерство.
 

В любом случае... да, клуб Thulecite классный, но мог бы быть и круче. Я не против.

Why is it not a bug and not cheating? A fly always attacks you on the move. No speed? Then why can she catch up with running characters and beat them on the run? For other mobs, it's simple. They hit and stop. Dragonfly was originally made in DS in such a way that it would be impossible to dodge it without teleportation or speed. In the DST... She just either stands still and hits you or flies at you and the speed of this plane won't help.

So I'm going to consider this a bug, because the same attack works differently in different conditions and doesn't match the original boss' vision.

5 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Все эти изменения целей и оправдания — лишь бы не признавать свою неправоту.

I'll surprise you, but excuses are what justifies a person. I can't admit that I stole your meatballs from the ice box even though you asked me not to, even though I didn't steal them. Or what? Does making excuses make me guilty? LoL.

Edited October 21, 2025 by Hungry French

[Maxil20]

7 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

All this goalpost moving and excuses just to avoid admitting that you're wrong.

I hope people (especially @AliceShiki)can use this thread as a reference point to why I don't like replying to this person much after several mostly unproductive discussions.

You don't need to reply to every single post. Save your time and do something else you prefer!

Edited October 21, 2025 by Maxil20

[HowlVoid]

8 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I hope people (especially @AliceShiki)can use this thread as a reference point to why I don't like replying to this person much after several mostly unproductive discussions.

You don't need to reply to every single post. Save your time and do something else you prefer!

Fight me on why Wormwood should replace Charlie on the throne. 

Wait- i just thought of something completely unrelated (kind of) but if livings logs are strong enough to be made into weapons... shouldnt wormwood have the strongest punch in the game? Or maybe second after wolfgang.

[Frosty_Mentos]

One idea I have is that it could give us movement speed on hit, capped to near-walking cane amount of speed. Other than that it could just make shadow tenticles actually feel consistent and feel good to have around. They cost a lot of sanity.

[Hungry French]

19 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I hope people (especially @AliceShiki)can use this thread as a reference point to why I don't like replying to this person much after several mostly unproductive discussions.

You don't need to reply to every single post. Save your time and do something else you prefer!

It's not up to you to decide who to talk to and with whom. If you didn't like your experience with me, 'it doesn't mean' that you should force others not to talk to someone or have a biased opinion. Firstly, it's not pretty, and secondly, it helps to inflame the toxic community.

And for a comfortable dialogue, it is necessary to clearly define the boundaries of whether this is an actual dialogue or just an opinion-based dialogue.
In my dialogue with AliceShiki, there were a lot of personal opinions. This is because different people have different ideas about what cheese is. As for bugs... Anyone can say, "This is not a bug, but rather the way the boss works," even if the boss simply stops attacking and stands still.

Our only mistake was creating a giant discussion within the post that doesn't relate to Dragon Fly.

About the bat... Why do we need another shadow sword in the game?
We have the Glass Cutter, the Trident, and the Morning Star... All of these weapons perform the same functions as the shadow sword - high damage, depending on the situation.
Ruins Bat is definitely one of the most expensive weapons in the game, and it is much more expensive than the Shadow Sword, and it can only be crafted in a limited location. So... It probably needs to be upgraded to 68 damage to emphasize its status as the best weapon before Rifts.
Although I would like to keep this status even after the introduction of Rifts.

[Maxil20]

2 hours ago, Hungry French said:

If you didn't like your experience with me, 'it doesn't mean' that you should force others not to talk to someone or have a biased opinion. 

I am not forcing people to not talk to you, I am only giving a general recommendation based on past and recent experiences. It has been the experience of myself and several others here, for several years. If you don't like that, then you shouldn't have spent years demonstrating why it's not very pleasant to talk to you. I'm sorry if that doesn't resonate with you. Do take care!

[Hungry French]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Я не заставляю людей не разговаривать с вами, я лишь даю общую рекомендацию, основанную на прошлом и недавнем опыте. Я и несколько других людей сталкивались с этим на протяжении нескольких лет. Если вам это не нравится, тогда вам не стоило тратить годы на демонстрацию того, почему с вами не очень приятно разговаривать. Мне жаль, если это не находит у вас отклика. Берегите себя!

Hmm. And what exactly is the dislike of talking to me? The characteristics that describe me ?

[AliceShiki]

On 10/21/2025 at 5:56 PM, Maxil20 said:

I hope people (especially @AliceShiki)can use this thread as a reference point to why I don't like replying to this person much after several mostly unproductive discussions.

You don't need to reply to every single post. Save your time and do something else you prefer!

Yeah, I kinda grew tired of the discussion and stopped logging in to Klei forums for a few days because I wasn't in the mood to reply.

But yeah, when someone keeps claiming that something is a bug when it's not, then it feels like there isn't much point in continuing the back and forth.

[slendyproject]

On 10/22/2025 at 6:16 PM, Hungry French said:

It's not up to you to decide who to talk to and with whom. If you didn't like your experience with me, 'it doesn't mean' that you should force others not to talk to someone or have a biased opinion. Firstly, it's not pretty, and secondly, it helps to inflame the toxic community.

Didnt you leave this comment where you misrepresented/mocked my argument, then said I have "a lot of self-conceit" about myself for daring to disagree with you?

All that is to say that perhaps the call regarding the inflamed toxic community is coming from inside the house.

[Hungry French]

On 27.10.2025 at 16:57, slendyproject said:

Разве ты не оставил этот комментарий, в котором исказил/высмеял мой аргумент, а затем сказал, что я «слишком высокого мнения» о себе, раз осмелился с тобой не согласиться?

Всё это говорит о том, что, возможно, проблема разгорячённого токсичного сообщества кроется внутри системы.

Bro, you should watch your words first. My comment was literally the sarcastic opposite of yours. As a joke... And you just started baselessly accusing me and gloating...
toxicity is exclusively a human problem. You don't want to talk on equal terms and seek the truth. You just accuse others of being wrong.

So the only problem with toxic people is that they're toxic and they take things too seriously. It was obvious from your comment. You've made a drama out of what I consider a random search for a moon island to be a good mechanic. And he accused me of wanting everyone to do it. But don't you want Klei to leave a regular moon island spawner just because you like it?.. Haven't you thought about me? Do you want me to play like you?)

On 10/25/2025 at 10:57 PM, AliceShiki said:

Yeah, I kinda grew tired of the discussion and stopped logging in to Klei forums for a few days because I wasn't in the mood to reply.

But yeah, when someone keeps claiming that something is a bug when it's not, then it feels like there isn't much point in continuing the back and forth.

What is a bug? Unintentional system failure. And if creator  leave it and don't fix it... That's it... Is it a legal bug? But it's still a bug, even if it hasn't been fixed. Although I forgot exactly which DF function we were talking about)

[crushcircuit]

i think it would be cool to see a thulecite club buff  

[Hungry French]

4 hours ago, crushcircuit said:

я думаю, было бы круто увидеть баффа клуба thulecite  

Maybe 68 damage?