Wanda is not a glass canon at all.

[Mike23Ua]

24 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Why do they need to be squishy at all times? You declared that the rule? 

In elden ring, I can equip talismans that increase my damage output at <20% Hp but still have 1600 max hp. I can choose to seppuku myself down to that before starting a boss fight as a glass cannon or I can take a hit or 2 to become glass cannon during the fight. Exactly the same as Wanda in DST.

Even if I run 10 vigor, I can equip talismans to boost max hp and ritual shield talisman so I'm not a glass cannon anymore....

This rigid idea about glass cannons is wrong and even if you are technically right, Klei and fromsoft shouldn't make a true glass cannon because it's terrible gameplay design.

 

My point & im going to be as polite about this as I can be, is that Klei could have made Wanda a “True” glass canon and given her a far more interesting playstyle. They did not opt for this venue because obviously: A Glass Canon will only appeal to a select few who enjoy that, so they wanted her to be as accessible as possible to even Casual gamers.

But… ima be real with y’all you got this character who’s entire “gimmick” is to jump through time, and open up funky teleportation networks, so in my head I’m thinking it would’ve been cool if Wanda was “Immune” to taking projectile damage as in: she has enough **time** to open a portal in front of herself that just swallows the projectile before it reaches her, maybe even reflects it back towards the attacker?? but the downside to being completely immune to projectiles: is that she is permanently locked at old age and only 1 or 2 melee hits away from instant death, with no way of being “Young/ Safer Wanda” 

Thats the base definition of a glass canon in most FPS/Fighting games: Weak, easy to kill.. bullets move slower towards them, but melee attacks destroy them. Etc..

Kinda like how Kara can use magic energy as weapons but has no skills with guns and can pick up or use them, but to balance not being able to use a gun bullets fired toward her move slower so she has faster time to Dodge out their path? Yeah… that. 

[Wawchik]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

My point & im going to be as polite about this as I can be, is that Klei could have made Wanda a “True” glass canon and given her a far more interesting playstyle. They did not opt for this venue because obviously: A Glass Canon will only appeal to a select few who enjoy that, so they wanted her to be as accessible as possible to even Casual gamers.

But… ima be real with y’all you got this character who’s entire “gimmick” is to jump through time, and open up funky teleportation networks, so in my head I’m thinking it would’ve been cool if Wanda was “Immune” to taking projectile damage as in: she has enough **time** to open a portal in front of herself that just swallows the projectile before it reaches her, maybe even reflects it back towards the attacker?? but the downside to being completely immune to projectiles: is that she is permanently locked at old age and only 1 or 2 melee hits away from instant death, with no way of being “Young/ Safer Wanda” 

Thats the base definition of a glass canon in most FPS/Fighting games: Weak, easy to kill.. bullets move slower towards them, but melee attacks destroy them. Etc..

Kinda like how Kara can use magic energy as weapons but has no skills with guns and can pick up or use them, but to balance not being able to use a gun bullets fired toward her move slower so she has faster time to Dodge out their path? Yeah… that. 

Eh, there are like 3 ranged mobs in the entire game so this won't really change much. Klei would have to do a big rework for Wanda to be a glass cannon that people want her to in these threads 

[00petar00]

On 5/11/2025 at 8:51 AM, NekoSoulx said:

So in DST exist both types of "glass canons", the first one is maxwell which, in my opnion is the real glass canon, he is always low health

What's interesting is that Maxwell is at 75 HP while Wanda is at 15 (max 35) quite often to not overheal and lose damage bonus and Maxwell has access to all the gear that Wanda can use.

I don't know how you can make an argument that Maxwell is a glass cannon when he has 60 HP over Wanda and is ranged so he doesn't even need to engage while he is also encouraged to tame a beefalo to fight with but Wanda isn't.

If Wanda had 60-70 HP would she be glass cannon to you?

I do agree that both characters don't need any nerfs and Wanda skill tree needs buffs to planar damage/upgrade for alarming clock as I don't want to use any other weapon when playing her.

Glass cannon character as to how others describe it on the forums would be terrible for DST because this isn't a game where you can respawn without any cost at the same spot after you die in a boss fight and you also need armor. I wonder how many players would actually play a real glass cannon character that can't use armor and have like 10 max HP. 

 

The most important thing to mention is that developers only called Wanda glass cannon but never made her one according to these players ideas because she wouldn't fit the game like that. So I don't see why there are so many threads about this years after release when there are so many other strong characters. Wanda doesn't need to be a glass cannon just because developers called her that.

Edited May 13, 2025 by 00petar00

[AriaMain]

Did the devs ever called Wanda a glass cannon?

[Semind]

2 hours ago, AriaMain said:

Did the devs ever called Wanda a glass cannon?

Yes they did. It might be the entire reason this conversation exists to begin with.

[Cheggf]

I don't think it really matters. I don't think she's a glass cannon (night armor's 20x durability + alarming clock's safety more than makes up for her low health) but she's definitely the closest thing there is to a glass cannon, so it's not like someone would be blatantly wrong if they said she's a glass cannon.

The only thing I think would be blatantly wrong is saying Maxwell is a glass cannon with his 75 health unlike Wanda with her 15-35 health. I don't know where you heard these definitions for different terms, but they're not standard. The only standard term here is glass cannon, which is no more complex than the two words used to compose it: glass (easy to die) and cannon (high damage). There is nothing about "starting strong from the start" (if anything a wizard is typically the opposite where they start very weak and power up later), it's just kill fast + die fast. And I've never heard anyone ever use the term "berserker" to describe someone with near death / comeback mechanics. 

[PonyOfApocalips]

On 5/11/2025 at 2:22 PM, Sikers said:

The problem with glass cannons in dst is that the armors and healing are simply too powerful. Maxwell's 75hp doesn't really matter, because with 90/95% damage reduction, there's still a planty of room for error. Also the fact that two so-called "glass cannons" can use Night Armor without penalty doesn't help either. To make a real glass cannon we need character/skill that rewards you for playing armor-less or maybe something similar to Woodies transformation, but with high dps instead of dmg reduction

Welp just give Wanda boosts to DMG when she had no armour I guess. 

[Cruvimaster]

DST's almost religious dogmas ruin character development: Wilson has to be the default "DS" character and therefore cannot be reworked, Wes has to be bullied throughout his development, and Wanda has to be a fake glass cannon (and not a time traveler).

I'm currently playing Black Myth: Wukong. There's a real glass cannon build in it. This means he'll have the highest damage in the ENTIRE game and zero defense points.

Wanda has never been the character who deals the most damage in the game and today she's even worse. Winona, Maxwell, Wigfrid, Wolfgang deal superior damage.

Another thing about Wukong is the fact that he has an infinite resurrection point at no cost immediately before each boss. So using a glass cannon build isn't a problem and the player can instantly switch from this build at no cost.

In DST, one death can destroy your entire world. Why use a character that would make you lose everything?

Finally, even though Wukong has the highest damage build (glass cannon), no one can effectively use it on extremely difficult bosses. So no one uses it, but rather a build that turns the player into a war tank.

It's exactly the same in DST that makes Wigfrid the second character in the game and Wanda one of the last.

[ShadowDuelist]

8 hours ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

Welp just give Wanda boosts to DMG when she had no armour I guess. 

I second this, she even has a dodge mechanic of her own (the backstep watch) but it has enough delay to be somewhat bad and not useful for every fight.

Just tweak the backstep to be an actually decent dodge mechanic, make her alarming deal planar damage with a small aoe when completely unarmored and old, and you get a no hit glass cannon that can't even cheat with a beefalo.

[PonyOfApocalips]

9 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

DST's almost religious dogmas ruin character development: Wilson has to be the default "DS" character and therefore cannot be reworked, Wes has to be bullied throughout his development, and Wanda has to be a fake glass cannon (and not a time traveler).

Sorry but Wanda was announced as glass canon character- if klei didn't made her that way is kinda their fail, not our.

Personally i would left Wanda in state she is but in skill tree she should have more galss canons builds. Like skills that rewand u by DMG or movment methods if u dont have armor or staff.

Then we could have good Wanda for people who wants glass canon and for people who want more time keeper skills- and i am kinda in the scond group cause i was disappointed that main focus of this character is at combat 

Edited May 14, 2025 by PonyOfApocalips

[Cruvimaster]

2 hours ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

Sorry but Wanda was announced as glass canon character- if klei didn't made her that way is kinda their fail, not our.

The same developers who created Warbucks and put a Jewish religious symbol on a Wigfrid skin.

Yes, they also make mistakes and fix them.

Wanda is always a challenge for them, as was the case with the Great Depths Worm.

Wanda died instantly to this mob when she was devoured. Neither Wes nor Maxwell died. I warned in a thread and only heard a bunch of Wanda haters saying that it should be like that because she is a "glass cannon".

At least the developers listened to me and didn't let that happen.

Edited May 14, 2025 by Cruvimaster

[GrapeVruit]

2 hours ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

Sorry but Wanda was announced as glass canon character- if klei didn't made her that way is kinda their fail, not our.

 

...What are you talking about? Klei NEVER mentioned Wanda being a glass canon. They didn't mention it in her announcement post, her release post, the trailer's description, not in the compendium, heck, not even in her purchase description. The closest thing they said that COULD imply she's a glass cannon is in the September 9th, 2021 forum post annoucing Wanda's debut: "In Wanda's old age, she learns how to utilize shadow magic more effectively, and relies on it to make up for her declining strength."

Klei never said Wanda was a glass canon, rather, it was the community that forcefully put her into that role. I THINK these whole "Wanda is not a glass canon posts" stemmed from a stray dev comment in the last beta branch, featuring three characters that weren't even related to her, 4 years after her release, when everyone in the community was told she was a glass canon.

And let's be real: Does this even matter? Especially with the skill level of most here on the forums? Even if Klei added some of these suggestions to make her more of a glass canon, they either wouldn't be enough, would make her "annoying" to play and not hard, or be compared to other characters who deal much more damage without being close to death. 

[PonyOfApocalips]

3 hours ago, GrapeVruit said:

Klei never said Wanda was a glass canon, rather, it was the community that forcefully put her into that role. I THINK these whole "Wanda is not a glass canon posts" stemmed from a stray dev comment in the last beta branch, featuring three characters that weren't even related to her, 4 years after her release, when everyone in the community was told she was a glass canon.

One of the first mention of Wanda was in tophic about glass cannon mechanic back in 2020. 

3 hours ago, GrapeVruit said:

 They didn't mention it in her announcement post, her release post, the trailer's description, not in the compendium, heck, not even in her purchase description. 

If we gonna pretend that it's valid source of information about game design terms the Warly isn't support character- even if we is clearly designed that way.

Does this even matter?

Idk man, for some people is metter that's why this post exist. That's why I suggest skill tree features not basic Wanda changes- cause this is what a skill trees are about CUSTOMISATION- Soo we all can get Wanda we want and if glass canon Wanda will be bad, they only can blame themselfs. xp

[00petar00]

44 minutes ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

Does this even matter?

Idk man, for some people is metter that's why this post exist. That's why I suggest skill tree features not basic Wanda changes- cause this is what a skill trees are about CUSTOMISATION- Soo we all can get Wanda we want and if glass canon Wanda will be bad, they only can blame themselfs. xp

If these players were the ones developers listened to the game would be a hardcore survival with 10-20% of the current playerbase. 

There are always the same players that push for nerfs and difficulty and you see them in every thread that is polarizing while the game has gotten easier over the years and playerbase is still very high and has peaked with changes that made the game more accessible.

I don't understand why should a character be nerfed years after release just because some players are trying to pull specific wording when character was announced and released. I haven't gotten a single good argument for this because there isn't one, players have adapted to the current character and at that time Wanda was literally the strongest but now she isn't and has more of a utility role. Quite a few characters can match or surpass her now.

If we  have a skill tree path focused on Wanda's glass cannon build which only a very small minority of forum members want that would be terrible decision because all forum members included are a minority of experienced players, so when an issue is 50/50 it is obvious that it would be 80-90% if we included most of the playerbase in the discussion. Skill trees should be made so that every option appeals to as many people as possible, when players have to think and are torn between what to choose is when it is a good skill tree.

Edited May 15, 2025 by 00petar00

[PonyOfApocalips]

25 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't understand why should a character be nerfed years after release 

I didn't suggest nerfs just more risk rewand lol

25 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

If we  have a skill tree path focused on Wanda's glass cannon build which only a very small minority of forum members want that would be terrible decision 

It's all depends how klei gonna make that- glass canons are pretty popular and i belive they could done it right. 

Also i dont thnik most players should be main focus when we talking about dlc characters- the most players dont even have Wanda.

If you ask me personaly what I want to see in Wanda skilltree is rewand for useing backstep insted of tanking all DMG- idk maybe some planer DMG boost if we dont have ageless watch cooldown.

When i mained Wanda i feel like i get punished for doing doges insted of tanking all DMG and healing it all in one clock, and that's one of reasons that she is not longer my main.

Edited May 15, 2025 by PonyOfApocalips

[00petar00]

13 minutes ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

didn't suggest nerfs just more risk rewand lol

I wasn't replying directly to you here but the whole discussion about Wanda being a glass cannon years after release but I do think that If there was a focus on that with skill tree it would be the underwhelming part and most players would have only one option and would be able to pick everything they want.

13 minutes ago, PonyOfApocalips said:

It's all depends how klei gonna make that- glass canons are pretty popular and i belive they could done it right. 

Also i dont thnik most players should be main focus when we talking about dlc characters- the most players dont even have Wanda.

If you ask me personaly what I want to see as Wanda is rewand for useing backstep insted of tanking all DMG- idk maybe some planer DMG boost if we dont have ageless watch cooldown.

When i mained Wanda i feel like i get punished for doing doges insted of tanking all DMG and healing it all in one clock, and that's one of reasons that she is not longer my main.

Glass cannon can't be popular in DST because of the type of the game this is, you can't revive infinitely for free and not at the same spot even on endless you have go to portal, there are resources that are used in a boss fight that don't in your inventory either.

I don't think it matters which numbers you choose to compare, most players will always prefer a stronger character and that's why every single skill tree was buffing characters. I think that DLC characters are even more important to be done right and not to be made for small minority because players could've spent money on it and not used spools.

I use backstep constantly with shadow pieces, deerclops, dragonfly, nightmare werepig, FW and even at night to dodge charlie attacks. What does this has to do with anything, I don't tank with Wanda because there is no inventory space for me to carry 10 ageless watches and also it wouldn't be fun to gather resources for night armor which aren't cheap to craft, I usually carry 2 ageless and can kill all bosses but not everyone can do this and game shouldn't be balanced around me who has thousands of hours.

I never felt like it was punishing to dodge attacks as any character because you are going to spend less time gathering resources for the fight whether it be armor or healing. I wonder how many ageless watches did you carry and how many night armors did you craft for FW/CC/DF/Nightmare werepig? It really isn't believable to not dodge at all and say that this is more efficient.

Edited May 15, 2025 by 00petar00

[PonyOfApocalips]

23 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

it wouldn't be fun to gather resources for night armor which aren't cheap to craft, I usually carry 2 ageless and can kill all bosses but not everyone can do this and game shouldn't be balanced around me who has thousands of hours.

As Wanda it isn't to expensive tbh

23 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

 I wonder how many ageless watches did you carry and how many night armors did you craft for FW/CC/DF/Nightmare werepig? It really isn't believable to not dodge at all and say that this is more efficient.

For FW? 4- his DMG isn't problem for any of character, his overheal is. 

CC i dont remember,

but werepig wasn't in game back then and i guess you are right about him cause he is well designed and pretty anti-tank Boss 

Edited May 15, 2025 by PonyOfApocalips

[Theukon-dos]

11 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I wasn't replying directly to you here but the whole discussion about Wanda being a glass cannon years after release but I do think that If there was a focus on that with skill tree it would be the underwhelming part and most players would have only one option and would be able to pick everything they want.

Glass cannon can't be popular in DST because of the type of the game this is, you can't revive infinitely for free and not at the same spot even on endless you have go to portal, there are resources that are used in a boss fight that don't in your inventory either.

I don't think it matters which numbers you choose to compare, most players will always prefer a stronger character and that's why every single skill tree was buffing characters. I think that DLC characters are even more important to be done right and not to be made for small minority because players could've spent money on it and not used spools.

I use backstep constantly with shadow pieces, deerclops, dragonfly, nightmare werepig, FW and even at night to dodge charlie attacks. What does this has to do with anything, I don't tank with Wanda because there is no inventory space for me to carry 10 ageless watches and also it wouldn't be fun to gather resources for night armor which aren't cheap to craft, I usually carry 2 ageless and can kill all bosses but not everyone can do this and game shouldn't be balanced around me who has thousands of hours.

I never felt like it was punishing to dodge attacks as any character because you are going to spend less time gathering resources for the fight whether it be armor or healing. I wonder how many ageless watches did you carry and how many night armors did you craft for FW/CC/DF/Nightmare werepig? It really isn't believable to not dodge at all and say that this is more efficient.

Oh can you bugger off with your numbers and metrics? You know what you get when you try to make something that appeals to everyone? You get something that's really, really *boring*. And that's the mentality that's sanded off every sharp edge and spine that made me fall in love with this game over seven years ago.

 

I don't care if Wanda would only have half the people playing her if she was a true glass cannon. Because the half that still do would be having far more fun than they did before, and thus result in a net positive on enjoyment. 

 

 

[Gashzer]

17 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The same developers who created Warbucks and put a Jewish religious symbol on a Wigfrid skin.

Yes, they also make mistakes and fix them.

Wanda is always a challenge for them, as was the case with the Great Depths Worm.

Wanda died instantly to this mob when she was devoured. Neither Wes nor Maxwell died. I warned in a thread and only heard a bunch of Wanda haters saying that it should be like that because she is a "glass cannon".

At least the developers listened to me and didn't let that happen.

Jews dont own the entire concept of a 5-pointed star lol wigfrids skin looked nothing like the star of David anyway.

Warbucks aesthetically was a great character.

Dont call these mistakes, they are not. The only mistake was people complaining unnecessarily about these things...

Wendy using the occult to bring Abigail back is completely against Christianity, should klei remove Wendy too? 

 

[Cheggf]

I think everyone saying Wanda should get buffs when not wearing armor is going way too far in the other direction. You don't have to get oneshot by any attack ever in order to be a glass cannon. You don't need to jump Wanda from ~700 EHP (dies in ~10 hits from most bosses) to ~20 EHP (dies in 1 hit from literally anything) to make her feel like a glass cannon.

Unless the bonus didn't stack with her age so you would have ~150 EHP and die in ~2 hits from most bosses, but then you're ignoring her entire mechanic and replacing it with a completely different one. 

[Bumber64]

47 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I think everyone saying Wanda should get buffs when not wearing armor is going way too far in the other direction. You don't have to get oneshot by any attack ever in order to be a glass cannon. You don't need to jump Wanda from ~700 EHP (dies in ~10 hits from most bosses) to ~20 EHP (dies in 1 hit from literally anything) to make her feel like a glass cannon.

Unless the bonus didn't stack with her age so you would have ~150 EHP and die in ~2 hits from most bosses, but then you're ignoring her entire mechanic and replacing it with a completely different one. 

Doesn't her unique health mechanic come into play with that? You don't die instantly.

Edited May 15, 2025 by Bumber64

[Edible Coal]

7 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Doesn't her unique health mechanic come into play with that? You don't die instantly.

if ur health is too low, u die before the hit stun ends

[Mike23Ua]

I mean there are ways to make a character who is meant to be a Glass Canon into being a better Glass Canon, but the issue with that is that a “Glass Canon” isn’t going to appeal to the Majority Consumer, and Klei wants people to actually buy their DLC characters.

Edited May 16, 2025 by Mike23Ua

[Cruvimaster]

We have a few rounds of discussions on the forum:

Ancient Fuelweaver > Toadstool > Wanda > Maxwell reading Wickerbottom's books.

This is Wanda's phase, obviously.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

We have a few rounds of discussions on the forum:

Ancient Fuelweaver > Toadstool > Wanda > Maxwell reading Wickerbottom's books.

This is Wanda's phase, obviously.

Maybe, but there are still better ways to make an actual glass canon type of character, and DST has all the tools and assets to transition over into that.

For example: in several other games that I play that have glass canon characters, they can be the most powerful strongest characters in the game, but they do not come without serious downsides- Such as: Not being able to wear armor, or being restricted to which weapons they can and can not pick up…

In most cases the glass canon always ends up being the female character, but not always… sometimes it can be a really really skinny dude too, or even a short alien cat thing, anyway: Point is that they move fast, but they’re smaller body frame prevents them from picking up heavy swords, mallets etc..

Klei could have restricted Wanda to certain items like her exclusive weapons set, and to add even more “glass” to her playstyle her clocks all could lose durability over time explained away as being “unstable”

And this would set her up to needing to refuel/repair them with Nightmare fuel like we see her using on her clocks in her animated short.

Lastly: Regardless of rather she is Insane or not, Wanda should always periodically be chased by Shadows.

All of this is things a mod creator can probably do or already has done.

 

Edited May 16, 2025 by Mike23Ua