About the skill tree of librarian Wickerbottom

[Pinru]

I have been playing Wickerbottom for about 5 years,She is an intellectual with outstanding ability and high morality,I think her skill tree deserves to be treated with care,Because there are very few people who use her.

1. The san punishment of reading should be dealt with.

2.Although the bookshelf can store a large number of books, the need to carry books with her is also necessary.

3.The power of some impractical books should be strengthened (players who use her know what I said....)

 

[Pruinae]

I'd like to argue in favor of adding a Wicker Skill Tree leaning more in the stronger side (as I am afraid Klei still thinks she is a strong character). I will do that using my perspective to answer the question: "Is Wickerbottom a strong character?". That was true once, but I'd like to acknowledge the updates over the years in which she got a bunch of indirect and direct changes, to see if that still holds true. I probably will miss a few, feel free to add to the list if you feel inclined.

- Maxwell got his rework while still keeping his ability to read her books + the bookcase that replenishes books got added.
- She was nerfed: Shadows spawn when reading books at low sanity; Horticulture got divided into two weaker books.
- Klaus got added.
- Grass Geckos and Grass Gators have been added.
- New powerful food sources have been added (Tall Scotch Eggs, Kelp, Stone Fruit).
- New powerful characters have been released; Other characters have become more interesting and powerful, giving players more options of characters to choose (How many people do you know that were a Wicker main once but aren't anymore?).

~ Boats got added.

+ She got 9 new books in her rework.
+ Her bookcase replenishes her books (even though this greatly benefits Maxwell, it of course also benefits her).
+ We are now able to use the Cartographer's Desk to erase Blueprints, Tackle Adverts, Sketches, Costume Patterns, Recipe Cards, and Lost Scrapbook Pages turning them into one Papyrus, each.
+ Monkeytails got added.

So now she has an easier time making books in worlds without a Tentacle Trap, but she has a harder time making use of them early game due to the Shadow Creatures spawning. Once she is set up, you can rest easy and swap to Maxwell knowing you can enjoy your character's perks without having to keep grinding to make new books.

How useful are her books though?

+ Practical Rain Rituals - Negates Spring and Summer, allows to make full use of electrical damage.
+ Birds of the World - Can be used with a Flingomatic Boat to farm meat, Feathers, Coal and Krampus Sacks.
+ On Tentacles - Can be used to kill Bee Queen, Shadow Knight, Eye of Terror/Twins, Depth Worms, Hounds, etc; Enhance the Krampus farm; Farm Monster Meat and Tentacle spots. Can be used as a dangerous sanity station when combined with the Bee Queen Crown. Having Lazy Forager is advised.
+ Overcoming Arachnophobia - Can be used VS the Shadow Knight, Ancient Guardian, M/Toadstool (makes cheese easier). Enhances your Tentacle Pits.
+~ The Everything Encyclopedia - Useful early game. Synergy with any character that wants to rush a Shadow Manipulator.
+~ Apicultural Notes - Useful against a few bosses.
+~ Lunar Grimoire - Less annoying alternative to Lunar Storms.
+~ Horticulture - Good at getting filler for the crockpot and specific seeds early. Good for rocks and bananas late game (If you are Wicker you gotta use a Lureplant or your hands to collect, while Maxwell can just use his minions...)
+~ Silviculture - Good for farming Grass and Twigs early game. Good for farming Monkeytails and Logs late game (Again, Maxwell is better at using her book since he can spawn his minions to collect).

~ Lux Aeterna - Alternative for the Star/Moon Caller's Staffs.
~ The End is Nigh! - Can be used to mass farm Pure Brilliance. It's in the "~" category due to requiring the Celestial Portal to swap to Wilson after, Wicker is good at getting the Pure Brilliance out of the rifts since she can't be put to sleep, and you still need to get Brightshade Husks to make use of it.
~ The Angler's Survival Guide - Can be used to farm fish and complete Pearl's quest a little easier. It's in the "~" category because you need docks to make full use of it, while there are other food sources every character can access with a lot less hassle. Outclassed by Birds of The World.

~- Pyrokinetics Explained/Fiery Pen - Very niche, every character can use a Fire Staff for similar results; Except in Toadstool and Misery T. where the pen will give you a cheaper option you can choose to fight him, kind of a bothersome method but still.
- Tempering Temperatures - Can be an alternative to Thermal Stones. It's in the "-" category by reason of needing other players to reach full potential, also requires you to sacrifice the head and body slot and/or spend time getting sanity food/fighting shadow creatures which seems counterintuitive to its use.
- Sleepytime Stories - Can be used along with Birds of the World to farm birds, but flingo boats end up being the more efficient and cheaper option. Ends up just being a weaker alternative to Pan Flute (more range, but longer cast and may spawn shadows).

Furthermore, let's be demanding: What can Wicker alone do BETTER than most other characters (or that other characters can't)?

1. Control rain.
2. Decent AoE crowd control (terms and conditions apply).
3. Farm rocks late game.

... And I struggle to find anything else that doesn't have a better, all-encompassing alternative.

So my conclusion is: Wicker is a character with books that allow her to burst mass farm resources and offer varied utility, however other characters may also accrue such resources in alternative ways that are not far behind from Wicker's full potential, or solve the same problems the books would solve with alternative means (which quite often are better than the books themselves). Is she strong? I don't believe so, she is in the OK category. There's a few niches she can fill that will entice me to swap to her for a few moments, but not too long after she is going right back into the portal

Now that the game has a heavier focus on boss combat, her kit falls short against the majority of bosses, offering benefits negatively disproportional to the effort spent preparing for the fight. Even in the late game were Wicker used to be picked most, now we have Wanda, Wortox and Winona, all which offer substantial benefits that are a lot less bothersome to use than Wickerbottom's. I hope her Skill Tree gives her new utility exclusive to her, and makes her combat feel more unique and dynamic.

[Pinru]

23分钟前，Pruinae说：

我想争辩支持添加一个更倾向于更强的柳条技能树（因为我担心Klei仍然认为她是一个强大的角色）。我将用我的观点来回答这个问题：“Wickerbottom是一个坚强的角色吗？”。这曾经是真的，但我想承认多年来的更新，她得到了一堆间接和直接的变化，看看这是否仍然有效。我可能会错过一些，如果你愿意，请随时添加到列表中。

- Maxwell重新工作，同时仍然保持阅读她书籍的能力+添加了补充书籍的书柜。
-她被削弱了：在低理智下阅读书籍时，阴影会产卵；园艺被分成了两本较弱的书。
- Klaus被添加了。
-添加了Grass Geckos和Grass Gators。
-增加了新的强大食物来源（高苏格兰鸡蛋、海帶、核果）。
-新的强大角色已经发布；其他角色变得更加有趣和强大，为玩家提供了更多角色选择（你知道有多少人曾经是柳条主，但现在不是了？）。

~增加了船。

+她在重做中得到了9本新书。
+她的书柜补充了她的书（尽管这对Maxwell有很大好处，当然也对她有好处）。
+我们现在可以使用制图师的办公桌来擦除蓝图、处理广告、草图、服装图案、食谱卡和丢失的剪贴簿页，将它们变成一个纸莎草纸。
+ 添加了Monkeytails。

因此，现在在没有触手陷阱的世界里，她更容易制作书籍，但由于影子生物的产卵，她更难在游戏早期利用它们。一旦她被设置好，你就可以放心了，换到Maxwell，知道你可以享受你角色的特权，而不必一直努力制作新书。

不过，她的书有多有用？

+实用的雨仪式-否定春天和夏天，允许充分利用电气损坏。
+世界鸟类-可与Flingomatic船一起使用，用于种植肉类、羽毛、煤炭和Krampus麻袋。
+在触手上-可用于杀死蜂后、影子骑士、恐怖之眼/双胞胎、深度蠕虫、猎犬等；增强Krampus农场；农场怪物肉和触角斑点。当与蜂王皇冠结合时，可以作为危险的理智站使用。建议有Lazy Forager。
+克服蜘蛛恐惧症-可用于VS影子骑士、古代守护者、M/蘑菇（让奶酪更容易）。增强你的触角坑。
+~《万物百科全书》-有用的早期游戏。与任何想要冲向影子操纵者的角色协同作用。
+~养蜂笔记-对几个老板很有用。
+~月球魔法书-月球风暴的替代品不那么令人讨厌。
+~园艺-擅长尽早为炖锅和特定种子获得填充物。适合岩石和香蕉后期游戏（如果你是柳条，你必须使用诱饵植物或你的手来收集，而麦克斯韦可以使用他的爪牙......）
+~ 林业 - 适合早期种植草和树枝。适合在游戏后期种植猴尾和原木（同样，Maxwell更擅长使用她的书，因为他可以生成他的爪牙来收集）。

~ Lux Aeterna - 恒星/月球呼叫者工作人员的替代方案。
~末日即将至！-可用于大规模种植Pure Brilliance。它属于“~”类别，因为之后需要天体门户换成威尔逊，威克擅长从裂痕中取出Pure Brilliance，因为她无法入睡，你仍然需要让Brightshade Husks来利用它。
~垂钓者生存指南-可以用来养鱼，更容易完成珍珠的任务。它属于“~”类别，因为你需要码头才能充分利用它，而每个角色都可以以更少的麻烦获得其他食物来源。被《世界之鸟》超越。

~-Pyokinetics Explained/Fiery Pen - 非常利基，每个角色都可以使用消防员来获得类似的结果；除了Toadstool和Misery T.，笔会给你一个更便宜的选择，你可以选择和他战斗，有点麻烦，但仍然。
- 回火温度 - 可以作为热石的替代品。它属于“-”类别，因为需要其他玩家充分发挥潜力，还需要你牺牲头部和身体插槽和/或花时间获得理智的食物/战斗的影子生物，这似乎违背了它的使用。
- Sleepytime Stories - 可以和Birds of the World一起用来饲养鸟类，但flingo船最终是更高效、更便宜的选择。最终只是泛笛的较弱替代品（范围更大，但投球时间更长，可能会产生阴影）。

此外，让我们提出要求：Wicker一个人能比大多数其他角色做得更好（或者其他角色做不到）吗？

1.控制雨水。
2.体面的AoE人群控制（条款和条件适用）。
3.农场岩石游戏后期。

...我努力寻找其他没有更好、包罗万象的替代品的东西。

因此，我的结论是：柳条是一个拥有书籍的角色，允许她爆发大规模农场资源并提供各种效用，然而，其他角色也可能以替代方式积累此类资源，这些方式与柳条的全部潜力相差不远，或者用替代手段解决书籍将解决的相同问题（这通常比书籍本身更好）。她强壮吗？我不这么认为，她属于OK类别。她可以填补一些利基，这会吸引我和她交换片刻，但不久后，她就会直接回到门户网站

现在游戏更加关注老板战斗，她的装备对大多数老板来说都不够，提供的好处与准备战斗的努力不成比例。即使在游戏后期，Wicker曾经被选中得最多，现在我们有Wanda、Wortox和Winona，所有这些都提供了实质性的好处，使用起来比Wickerbottom的要少得多。我希望她的技能树能给她独有的新实用工具，并让她的战斗感觉更加独特和充满活力。

You're right, Wicher needs more ways to support the fighting boss, and needs to help the team cooperate to provide more value for people.Although she is not a fighting character, she must be able to support the fighting boss（a good helper）And I think she is too weak in the cave world and very easy to die.It's really hard for her san to reply because she can't sleep.

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

I will do that using my perspective to answer the question: "Is Wickerbottom a strong character?". That was true once

nah, wicker was one of the most overrated characters ever, the "big three" was never a thing

[ShadowDuelist]

Most of her kit makes her much of a base dweller, she needs a way to restore her books on the go that is not very punishing. I think that's the priority number one.

Before her rework most of her combat oriented books could be re-made on the go so you could basically go around fighting with "on tentacles" and sleepytime stories: as long as you had papyrus on you, the tentacles killed would always give you spots to re-make the book, and using STS would sooner or later give you fuel (and in not such a punishing way as it does now). She was super fun to play as a mobile wizard, mostly what Maxwell is now.
 

9 hours ago, Pinru said:

The power of some impractical books should be strengthened (players who use her know what I said....)

• Apicultural Notes: despite having some niche uses it's generally underwhelming, the grumble bees are also really bad to follow you around and will get lost or die to shenanigans very often. Spawning a decent amount forces you to either use the bone helmet or to fight a dozen terrobeaks.
  Suggestions: Allow wearing the bee queen helmet to boost their movement speed and attack speed. Allow the book to "trap them magically in the book itself again" for more efficient carrying and faster/cheaper re-summoning.
• The End is Nigh: I think it's fine that they gave it a use during moonstorms but it's fairly niche and useless most of the time TBH. I think it should have some combat use as well. EG: the lightning that hits enemies, stuns them for X time and If it's raining, it will deal more damage to enemies.
• Sleepytime Stories: I think it should be a better panflute not a worse one. I believe the sleep effect should be strong enough so not all enemies wake up when you attack one, even if they have herd mentality.

9 hours ago, Pinru said:

 

1. The san punishment of reading should be dealt with.

This is one of the things that are also key to make her more fun to play, the other two magic oriented characters (Maxwell and Willow) can use their powers at need, in a fun way. Wicker can't, unless you have the bone helmet, or fight nightmare creatures every 20 seconds. She should have a way to bypass the con before the bone helmet (EG: if her base sanity is above 50% she consumes a tiny amount of sanity per book read)

[hyoton123]

High morality?

[Pruinae]

25 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

nah, wicker was one of the most overrated characters ever, the "big three" was never a thing

I don't know about "big three", but wasn't there a time when Bee Queen existed and Winona didn't even have catapults yet (lol)? I think considering her a strong character simply because she had an easier time dealing with BQ was a fair assumption. That + farming birds and basic resources.

It was at the time a character was strong because everyone else didn't have anything going for them, she simply had more. Overrated? Sure I guess that is a fair statement, but she could be considered strong.

[Pinru]

I suddenly remembered that she was attacked and interrupted while reading a book and stopped reading.This frustration is really sad.

12 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

High morality?

aha..

You can try to play wicker.many of words show that she has a high moral level.The reason why I love her so much is that she is really like one of my teachers. She knows a lot of academic knowledge, is approachable and humble. I am very grateful for her help.Despite the outstanding characters such as Wanda，I will still follow my heart to choose....

 

[Guille6785]

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

I don't know about "big three", but wasn't there a time when Bee Queen existed and Winona didn't even have catapults yet (lol)? I think considering her a strong character simply because she had an easier time dealing with BQ was a fair assumption. That + farming birds and basic resources.

fire always existed so she didn't really have an advantage even against BQ

[Dingle]

Huh, I always thought her name was Winklebottom.

[nicolas103]

Its tough for me to say what should really be done for her tree because despite what people say she is quite strong already, but not at all needed, or practical in a multiplayer, or a lot of combat scenarios.

Oh, and because im not creative enough to think of new books, lol. Anyways..

 

On one side she can mass produce a variety of resources, foods, and weapons with extreme ease, and at almost no cost.

Afk farm almost any boss, and a variety of mobs all with very little setup.

Ignore seasons, rain, and darkness.

And most things you farm, just loop back into farming what you need for more books, and more farms.

 

 

But on the other she casts so slow, and anything she does do is so stationary, and annoying to remove, and requires quite a bit of knowledge of game mechanics, ai, spawns, pathing to really be effective.

Any book you'd want to try use more like Sleepytime, Arachnophobia, or Her Bees just take so long to cast, dont synergize, and is often easier, and faster to just deal with the threat by hand.

Almost feels like you're precasting a lot of the time, and when you'd want to casg it just feels like you'd be stunned anyways.

 

All in all shes amazing at what she can do, but none of what she has can really be used outside of her various farms, or effectively in a lot of scenarios.

 

I also gotta disagree with the sanity "penalty" you can very easily produce, and store sanity foods(on any character) to where you really shouldnt be going insane as her, or at least I didnt, anyway.

 

Only a few things id love to see done with her current state at least is to allow for Charging, and Quicker uses.

Ex. Need to sleep a horde of splumonkeys? Quick Cast, making a portion fall asleep, making it more viable in chases.

Ex. More than 15 Crops on screen?

Hold Down the charge allowing for more crops to be grown at once instead of having to use it multiple times.

 

Obviously theres a ton more scenarios where it'd be more beneficial to Charge, or Insta Use, and I feel a lot of her books would greatly benefit depending on what changes via the Charging, or Insta Use.

 

Oh, and I do agree that she deserves a stronger tree for sure.

Mostly due to a lot of her books feeling pointless, underwhelming, not very useful, and over the top at times outside of various farms.

 

As great as she can be.. other strats, and characters can easily compete, or make her uneeded, and less unique at what she can do.

[Pruinae]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

fire always existed so she didn't really have an advantage even against BQ

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah you are right.

I personally think fire farms are too cheap, but don't see any problems using tentacles (my brain will tell me I am just using a character's kit, the brain can be funny like that sometimes). No point arguing over that though.

[Swiyss]

28 minutes ago, nicolas103 said:

Its tough for me to say what should really be done for her tree because despite what people say she is quite strong already, but not at all needed, or practical in a multiplayer, or a lot of scenarios.

Oh, and because im not creative enough to think of new books, lol. Anyways..

 

On one side she can mass produce a variety of resources, foods, and weapons with extreme ease, and at almost no cost.

Afk farm almost any boss, and a variety of mobs all with very little setup.

Ignore seasons, rain, and darkness.

And most things you farm, just loop back into farming what you need for more books, and more farms.

 

 

But on the other she casts so slow, and anything she does do is so stationary, and annoying to remove, and requires quite a bit of knowledge of game mechanics, ai, spawns, pathing to really be effective.

Any book you'd want to try use more like Sleepytime, Arachnophobia, or Her Bees just take so long to cast, dont synergize, and is often easier, and faster to just deal with the threat by hand.

 

All in all shes amazing at what she can do, but none of what she has can really be used outside of her various farms, or effectively in a lot of scenarios.

 

I also gotta disagree with the sanity "penalty" you can very easily produce, and store sanity foods(on any character) to where you really shouldnt be going insane as her, or at least I didnt, anyway.

 

Only a few things id love to see done with her current state at least is to allow for Charging, and Quicker uses.

Ex. Need to sleep a horde of splumonkeys? Quick Cast, making a portion fall asleep, making it more viable in chases.

Ex. More than 15 Crops on screen?

Hold Down the charge allowing for more crops to be grown at once instead of having to use it multiple times.

 

Obviously theres a ton more scenarios where it'd be more beneficial to Charge, or Insta Use, and I feel a lot of her books would greatly benefit depending on what changes via the Charging, or Insta Use.

 

Oh, and I do agree that she deserves a stronger tree for sure. She's great, but again, not needed.

would be insanely cool and very sick if every time she started casting, she would have anti-stagger frames while casting, like the shadow/moon is protecting her while reading/chanting the books.

[Pinru]

2小时前，nicolas103说：

我很难说真正应该为她的树做什么，因为尽管人们说她已经相当强壮了，但根本不需要，或者在多人游戏或许多场景中都很实用。

哦，因为我没有足够的创造力去想新书，哈哈。不管怎样..

 

一方面，她可以非常容易地大规模生产各种资源、食物和武器，而且几乎不需要任何成本。

Afk农场几乎任何老板，以及各种暴徒，都很少设置。

忽略季节、雨和黑暗。

你耕种的大多数东西，只是回到你需要更多的书籍和更多农场的耕作中。

 

 

但另一方面，她施法非常缓慢，她所做的任何事情都是静止的，去除起来很烦人，并且需要相当多的游戏机制、ai、产卵、路径知识才能真正有效。

任何你想尝试使用的书，比如《Sleepytime》、《Arachnophobia》或《Her Bees》，只需要很长时间才能铸造，没有协同作用，而且通常更容易，而且更快用手处理威胁。

 

总而言之，她能做的事情令人惊叹，但她所拥有的东西都不能真正用于她的各种农场之外，或者在许多情况下都能有效地使用。

 

我也不同意你可以很容易产生的理智“惩罚”，并将理智食物（在任何角色身上）储存到你真的不应该像她一样发疯的地方，或者至少我没有，无论如何。

 

至少在她目前的状态下，我希望看到的几件事是允许充电和更快的使用。

例如，需要睡一群splumonkeys吗？快速投下，让一部分人入睡，使其在追逐中更加可行。

例如，屏幕上有超过15个作物？

按住充电，一次种植更多的作物，而不必多次使用。

 

显然，还有很多情况，Charge或Insta Use会更有益，我觉得她的很多书会有很大的好处，这取决于Charging或Insta Use的变化。

 

哦，我确实同意，她肯定应该得到一棵更强壮的树。她很棒，但再说一遍，不需要。

You must be playing Winona. In fact, in the current game environment, most people will choose her in the later stage.If you have played Wicker, you will know that she is not great, but cool. She does need the help of the skill tree.For example, she doesn't have a strong uniqueness.She will be easily replaced by Wanda and Winona.Who doesn't want to have a low-cost transmission to save time？She is not very strong at all....but those who don't use her will think she looks good.In fact, playing her requires you to resist the temptations provided by many other characters.

[nicolas103]

51 minutes ago, Pinru said:

You must be playing Winona. In fact, in the current game environment, most people will choose her in the later stage.If you have played Wicker, you will know that she is not great, but cool. She does need the help of the skill tree.For example, she doesn't have a strong uniqueness.She will be easily replaced by Wanda and Winona.Who doesn't want to have a low-cost transmission to save time？She is not very strong at all....but those who don't use her will think she looks good.In fact, playing her requires you to resist the temptations provided by many other characters.

I ended up clarifying something in my post I assume you were referring to.

Im pretty sleep deprieved, gamer. So sorry if im mistaken.

 

Anyways, I actually do enjoy wicker a lot for what she is, and is capable of, however she does have some glaring issues outside of farms, and mass production which i do feel like i've said in my post.(Hopefully.)

[Maxil20]

15 hours ago, Pruinae said:

- She was nerfed: Shadows spawn when reading books at low sanity; Horticulture got divided into two weaker books.

She also got hit with a max HP penalty, from 150 to 125 (it’s not severe, but it is something)

15 hours ago, Pruinae said:

- Klaus got added.
- Grass Geckos and Grass Gators have been added.

I get grass geckos somewhat for production, but why gators/klaus? Klaus can be a krampus sack source, but its not like it was impossible to farm krampus as most characters prior, and the finite amount of gators in a world (9) combined with saplings having no refertilizing/maintenance means Wicker still pulls pretty far ahead in terms of gathering very large amounts of twigs (grass too with a proper setup, but you can get as many geckos as you want in that case and grass has maintenence, so that's a bit more moot).

15 hours ago, Pruinae said:

~ The Angler's Survival Guide - Can be used to farm fish and complete Pearl's quest a little easier. It's in the "~" category because you need docks to make full use of it, while there are other food sources every character can access with a lot less hassle. Outclassed by Birds of The World.

I think this book (like birds of the world) highly depends on the setup you have. I argue it might be more powerful since you can spawn hundreds of fish and either pop them with a trident/boat cannon/carapults and get bundles upon bundles of fish. While fish isn’t the best at restoring hunger in crockpot recipes, it’s very good at restoring the other two via surf and turf. You’ll need an obscene amount of books to pull this off though (as In, I’m burning through 8 bookshelves worth of guides and my estimates for 100% upkeep would be roughly 20)

I do agree a lot of her books are a lot more, well, situational. I myself pretty much only use birds, sleepytime, angler’s guide, rain rituals, and old applied horticulture on my world. The other books just don’t tempt me very much, at least by comparison.

I do agree her having a good skilltree would bring some nice merits. Your old Wickerbottom skilltree post has some nice merits I like, especially relating to lureplants as its something I heavily rely on for mass farming.

 

[Edible Coal]

tbh she would instantly be a more fun character if she got a container for books on the go ( pretty sure is guarantee at this point)
the resource she can mass produce is good, but most of them are pretty common materials that you dont need to much of unless you are building a massive base with tons of structures.

also not much fighting support unlike maxwell who has super resource gathering and also fighting skills

[GenomeSquirrel]

I’m not sure what to think about Wickerbottom, she has things that set her apart including a sleep status book and books spawning interesting mobs like tentacles and bees which normally I’d normally love, but when I try to brainstorm projects with her books, I can’t get the individual parts to coalesce into something remarkable.

 

Her books have themes involving plants, animals, and weather which can be foundations for branches.

 

I’m still not sure what I’d want from her though. I personally think shoveling and fertilizing is replaceable by visiting tumbleweeds, and the part of her kit I care the least about.

 

 

[DVGMedia]

16 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Sleepytime Stories: I think it should be a better panflute not a worse one. I believe the sleep effect should be strong enough so not all enemies wake up when you attack one, even if they have herd mentality

It does have more range than a pan flute compared to the casting time. I see it more as a prep spell Instead of a panic spell.  Use it when you know something is coming type of thing. 

[Pruinae]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I get grass geckos somewhat for production, but why gators/klaus? Klaus can be a krampus sack source, but its not like it was impossible to farm krampus as most characters prior, and the finite amount of gators in a world (9) combined with saplings having no refertilizing/maintenance means Wicker still pulls pretty far ahead in terms of gathering very large amounts of twigs (grass too with a proper setup, but you can get as many geckos as you want in that case and grass has maintenence, so that's a bit more moot).

The intention of the nerf/buff list was purely to see things that affected the notion of Wicker being a strong character. Klaus made a Krampus Sack farm less desirable (of course, every character can farm Krampus, the idea behind my post was to identify the XYZ in the line "I will play Wicker due to XYZ", when XYZ is something every character can achieve also); There's only 9 gators but they do produce twigs a lot faster than geckos produce grass (if the wiki is right it's every 0.5 days, compared to geckos that's x4 more! Don't know if the wiki is right but it does somewhat match my personal experience), that and twigs being mostly used for fences and crockpot filler late game made so in my personal experience I didn't ever have to farm them in my long-term world (I assume your experience may be different since you seem to like to mass produce things), after I built a gator pen the twigs in the chest never once moved below 999+ whereas grass constantly varies wildly (I'd say the gecko's and gator's main downside is having to keep them loaded for the farm to produce, so if you have a base big enough with them in an awkward position then they won't be that efficient unless you have a bunch, but still, a solvable problem with proper planning).

So all of these things (klaus, gators, geckos), are things that affected indirectly (to different degrees) Wicker's strength both early and late game. I think Klaus has a big enough drop rate to reasonably be put on the list without being considered a nitpick.

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I think this book (like birds of the world) highly depends on the setup you have. I argue it might be more powerful since you can spawn hundreds of fish and either pop them with a trident/boat cannon/carapults and get bundles upon bundles of fish. While fish isn’t the best at restoring hunger in crockpot recipes, it’s very good at restoring the other two via surf and turf. You’ll need an obscene amount of books to pull this off though (as In, I’m burning through 8 bookshelves worth of guides and my estimates for 100% upkeep would be roughly 20)

I do agree a lot of her books are a lot more, well, situational. I myself pretty much only use birds, sleepytime, angler’s guide, rain rituals, and old applied horticulture on my world. The other books just don’t tempt me very much, at least by comparison.

 do agree her having a good skilltree would bring some nice merits. Your old Wickerbottom skilltree post has some nice merits I like, especially relating to lureplants as its something I heavily rely on for mass farming.

That's fair, but aren't both books more of a luxury than anything? Even late game, other characters still have plenty of options for food/sanity/health sources, some strong enough to be a reasonable substitute to what Wicker can produce (sure you won't be swimming in bundles lol, but you can get a bearger bin filled up good enough to last you a while before you have to farm again). Saying it gets outclassed by Bird of the World was meant more in a general usability/setup sense (like, which gives you more compared to the effort put in), I should have expressed that better instead of just throwing that at the end as an afterthought :S

Your view is valid, but for arguing in favor of her Skill Tree I went with "What reasons does the average player have to play as Wicker over other characters?". The result I got was "not many, if any". Although the average player probably wouldn't play Wicker anyway (and average varies wildly depending on who you ask lmao), I still think it is worth entertaining. I would not want her to get the Wolfgang treatment in her Skill Tree.

and yess lureplants are part of her character identity at this point lol, it would be such a shame not giving her something to make better use of them in her skill tree

[Pinru]

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

Your view is valid, but for arguing in favor of her Skill Tree I went with "What reasons does the average player have to play as Wicker over other characters?". The result I got was "not many, if any". Although the average player probably wouldn't play Wicker anyway (and average varies wildly depending on who you ask lmao)

This is exactly what I want to express. Wicker lacks uniqueness and is easily replaced by other characters.But I feel that this skill tree design will be difficult for the DST team. She really needs interesting ideas.

First of all, her combat control ability and auxiliary support ability should be strengthened. She doesn't have to participate in the boss's battle, but she must assist the team to make it easier for others to kill (for example, she can show the boss's weakness by reading books，She can learn some skills of other roles/bosses.）I think "knowing a lot of knowledge" is her unique way of thinking.（She can't even teach others after studying the blueprint.）

The second point is, why do we play wicker? Instead of playing other characters that look more "egoist", we choose to play the Wicker to Selfless Help Team. What did the Wicker players sacrifice? It's really difficult for her to play for a long time. Most of her books are helping the team, not improving her own quality of survival. (some people won't even say thank you after you finish reading the book to help)This kind of "self-sacrifice" power feels really bad, but However, some one will say that her ability is great. I think they must not have played Wicker.I think her quality of life should be strengthened. The uniqueness of the role is reflected in the changes in different quality of life.Maybe it's time to "read a book for herself" instead of "read a book for others"

The third point is some other issues that have been discussed. For example, she can't carry enough books with her to read them when necessary.The usage rate of some of her books is very low.She lacks control.（Maybe it's time for her to learn to freeze others or summon meteorites to hit the boss.）I miss the magic design of Living Staff, Petrifying Tome and Tome of Beckoning in THE FORGE very much, which is really a combination of my thinking about witches.

I hope more wicker players can supplement it.because I think these ideas are important for the DST team, at least they can reduce their work.

[Dingle]

Very confused on the comparison of the likelihoods of Wicker getting a Krampus sack, and any other character getting a Krampus sack.

I thought the Klaus chance was just 10%? Am I missing some kind of non-Wicker farm that isn't vastly inferior?

[Pruinae]

31 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Very confused on the comparison of the likelihoods of Wicker getting a Krampus sack, and any other character getting a Krampus sack.

I thought the Klaus chance was just 10%? Am I missing some kind of non-Wicker farm that isn't vastly inferior?

Is Wicker the best at farming KS? Yes. What problems does it help solve? Inventory Management. Is there anything you can do with a Krampus Sack that you couldn't otherwise? Not really. It is more of a luxury than anything.

Let's say you are playing with two other players and everyone wants a Krampus Sack, does it make sense being Wickerbottom to get them? Ya, sure. But you also have the inventory space of three players, so it is even less of a priority than usual.

There's character specific solutions (Maxwell Top Hat, Woby), Bundling wraps, Chester, Burrowing Horn, Piggyback + Beefalo. You have plenty of options that don't involve getting out of your way to farm a mob, that solve the same problem the Krampus Sack does. They can hold you off until you feel like you could go farm one or you could simply get lucky and never have to farm it.

It is an optional thing you could setup as Wickerbottom that doesn't really make her stand out compared to other characters, Klaus simply makes it seem even less impressive.

[Tranoze]

On 4/17/2025 at 3:11 AM, Pruinae said:

her kit falls short against the majority of bosses

On 4/17/2025 at 3:11 AM, Pruinae said:

+ On Tentacles - Can be used to kill Bee Queen, Shadow Knight, Eye of Terror/Twins, Depth Worms, Hounds, etc; Enhance the Krampus farm; Farm Monster Meat and Tentacle spots. Can be used as a dangerous sanity station when combined with the Bee Queen Crown. Having Lazy Forager is advised.

You also forgot bee books allow her to also solo tons of bosses, especially boss with only single target damage.
Sleep books also can be used in combat vs bosses, not just farming feathers.
She also immune to CC's sleep.

I think she is a character if give enough preparation she can easily farm any bosses, and her play style is all about preparation and farming.