If character swapping is the problem, then nerf character swapping

[HellHeater]

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

And somehow it works because klei doesnt add stuff that shared between character anymore.

Wigfrid.

Wickerbottom and Maxwell.

I'm too lazy to think of more ty.

[Tranoze]

15 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

Wigfrid.

Wickerbottom and Maxwell.

I'm too lazy to think of more ty.

They was original there when DST was first introduced. Im saying specifically the word "add"

[Steorra]

2 hours ago, Pedro cc said:

there is a mod called all powerfull that allows you to use everyother character's perk, you are playing a game for your own klei entertainment if you think that's too op you can limit yourself to not use the celestial portal or play like a real one and play in wilderness and lose every boss blueprint each time you die (you keep all the items in the world only lose your character progress)

Oh, the shadow of "if you don't like it just don't use it" is always looming this forum. Creepy.

[somethin]

Swapping characters is pointless since every character becomes Wilson with a twist at end game anyway 

[HellHeater]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

They was original there when DST was first introduced. Im saying specifically the word "add"

Wigfrid's skill tree only added to it. Wickerbottom's new books after her rework are still capable of being used by maxwell.

[Dr. Safety]

4 hours ago, Tranoze said:

They buff winona so much that other cant put robot back on ground if they accidentally picked it.
Their option B is not "buff" but "make pick and swap character ability exclusive"

Im not against buff weak character, im against every single thing is so exclusive that require the character to be useable.
Klei dev use the reason: "If we want winona to be strong, all her ability has to be exclusive" in their dev stream about reveal winona update.
 

I mean, I don't think it's bad design to have the best parts of characters exclusive to them. That's why you play those characters. The synergy comes from two characters now instead of just their items. The Winbots were never universally accessible. You lost nothing by having it gated behind Winona (even though it isn't really gated since you just have to not pick it up and it works forever)

I agree that it's annoying when a non Winona player accidentally picks up the Winbots. It's an unfortunate byproduct of an otherwise healthy system imo. Perhaps they can make it so non Winona players can't pick it up, but can "disable" it, which would not be an action performed when holding space. Overall this seems like a non-issue though

[Anis5240]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

The Winbots were never universally accessible. You lost nothing by having it gated behind Winona (even though it isn't really gated since you just have to not pick it up and it works forever)

ok but like even that winaynay without the skill also can cause the winbot to deactivate when picked up like ??????

[Dr. Safety]

Well yeah, if the ability comes from a skill point and you don't have that skill, you don't get that ability. Again, it's still something you can use infinitely without the skill as long as you don't pick up the Winbot and you keep the generator fueled

[Cheggf]

The issue of character swapping has always been either an issue with the Celestial Portal or an issue with people's mindset. I've never abused character swapping and play as characters often called "swap characters" all the time (literally everyone is a "swap character" btw). I simply don't abuse the portal and only use it when I feel like changing characters, so it isn't a problem for me.

Complaints about character swapping do nothing except distract from genuine discussion. For example, look at Winona. She was boring, yawn, zzz, et cetera, so on and so forth. But discussion about why Winona was boring or how to improve her to make her more fun was almost nonexistent compared to discussion about how she's a swap character. For every comment I saw talking about ways to improve her I saw two hundred comments saying she's a swap character and another two hundred comments saying that we should nerf Winona to make her not a swap character, like her generators need to be turned on by only her and they turn off if she strays away. That doesn't actually make her more fun or make people want to play as Winona, that just makes her "not a swap character", which is the only goal that people with this mindset have for some reason. 

Wickerbottom is currently the same way. Everyone just keeps talking about how Maxwell shouldn't be able to read her books, but nobody is talking about how she can be improved. Nobody is talking about how 99% of Wickerbottom's power comes from one-and-done books that either mass produce resources (Applied Horticulture, Applied Silviculture, Angler's Survival Guide) or books that create lingering setups that remain regardless of Wickerbottom's presence (On Tentacles). Even if Maxwell couldn't read her books, she'd still be a "swap character". Wickerbottom would still have 99% of her power come from those books that don't require you to actually be Wickerbottom, and Wickerbottom would still go through the game with the main selling point of actually being her being those early game progression perks (+1 science tier, Everything Encyclopedia).

10 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

There were two ways to handle the issue which was A. Nerf celestial portal B. Buff "pick and swap" characters to have reasons to play them long term. It seems the devs picked B and honestly they are doing an awesome job with it.

There's also C, which is to nerf the "swap characters" for some reason like everyone was suggesting with Winona. 

[Mysterious box]

The better solution would be to just make it so the core of a character isn't overwritten when sharing for example Wurt can share her merms but other players can't benefit from some of the perks of warrior merms which is a much better balance compared to the Wicker Maxwell relationship where he's just Wickerbottom+

[Valase]

I will ignore most of this conversation and ask.

@Tranoze what character specific Items do you think should be share-able? Because in my head, most of the recent items are just Items that work within the character perks/powers/items.

[Wormboi]

Character swapping is not the problem its the characters themselfs

[Tranoze]

24 minutes ago, Valase said:

I will ignore most of this conversation and ask.

@Tranoze what character specific Items do you think should be share-able? Because in my head, most of the recent items are just Items that work within the character perks/powers/items.

Item that it's name, indentity show that it is logically can be used by a normal person. 

Picnic basket: Can store crocpot dish inside, but can only stack up to 5 and doesnt slow spoil rate. Just like how a real picnic basket function.
Books: Instead of only Max and Wicker can read book, each person can have one book they like and actually can read them for full effect. Wilson like science book. Willow like fire book...
Gym: Other player can use it but it always at hardest mode, and if you succeed, you gain 5% damage boost for a day.
Winbot: Allow other to actually put it down. If dont, just disable ability to pick it up in first place.
Shield: Player can hold it for the damage blockage, but only deal punch damage when attack with it.
Clock: Show time in cave.
 

[Uedo]

13 hours ago, Tranoze said:

neither do i. It wasnt a problem for me. Until dev decide it was a problem and all new content are character exclusive and all world i join/play, 30% of the chest are filled with character excusive items that totally useless because i dont play that exact character.

Which is why the title is "If character swapping is a problem".

You joined a world and was shocked most of the items belonged to the people who were there before you?  I am confusion

[Mike23Ua]

Character swapping is a little bit too easy to obtain, compare THAT to all the ridiculous tasks you have to go through just to obtain a Brightshade Sword which BARELY does more damage than a Darksword and you’ll very quickly realize that maybe the Celestial Portal needs to be pushed further back into late game. End of story.

[Well-met]

make the statue recipe more expensive, make the meteor spawn on moon island, and put a hard delay between swaps

[hyoton123]

I’m convinced. Character swapping SHOULD be easier.

[Valase]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Item that it's name, indentity show that it is logically can be used by a normal person. 

Picnic basket: Can store crocpot dish inside, but can only stack up to 5 and doesnt slow spoil rate. Just like how a real picnic basket function.
Books: Instead of only Max and Wicker can read book, each person can have one book they like and actually can read them for full effect. Wilson like science book. Willow like fire book...
Gym: Other player can use it but it always at hardest mode, and if you succeed, you gain 5% damage boost for a day.
Winbot: Allow other to actually put it down. If dont, just disable ability to pick it up in first place.
Shield: Player can hold it for the damage blockage, but only deal punch damage when attack with it.
Clock: Show time in cave.
 

being very frank, almost all of those suggestions are just "add another function to an item" instead of the item itself be share-able. What I mean is just everyone reading any book or everyone using telebrella, not "you can use Wanda clocks to tell the time one the caves".

1 hour ago, hyoton123 said:

I’m convinced. Character swapping SHOULD be easier.

I forgot what mode it is, but in one of them you can just die and swap characters.

[Anis5240]

6 minutes ago, Valase said:

forgot what mode it is, but in one of them you can just die and swap characters.

wilderness

[Tranoze]

3 hours ago, Valase said:

"add another function to an item"

Because klei's direction on how those item got there to be un-shareable in first place. Which is why i made this post so that i hope more new items can be shared.

They either make the item too strong that share full are not an option.
Or make item function stick way too close to character trait that share full ability does nothing for other.

Walking stick and cone hat is good.
Bookcase is perfect.

3 hours ago, Valase said:

almost all of those suggestions are just "add another function to an item"

Uh i dont add any extra funtion to these. Their ability already there. Can you actually read my post? Half of them are not almost all.

5 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Books: Instead of only Max and Wicker can read book, each person can have one book they like and actually can read them for full effect. Wilson like science book. Willow like fire book...
Winbot: Allow other to actually put it down. If dont, just disable ability to pick it up in first place.
Shield: Player can hold it for the damage blockage, but only deal punch damage when attack with it.
 

 

[YouKnowWho142]

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

Because klei's direction on how those item got there to be un-shareable in first place. Which is why i made this post so that i hope more new items can be shared.

They either make the item too strong that share full are not an option.
Or make item function stick way too close to character trait that share full ability does nothing for other.

Walking stick and cone hat is good.
Bookcase is perfect.

Uh i dont add any extra funtion to these. Their ability already there. Can you actually read my post? Half of them are not almost all.

 

Should characters other than woodie be able to use Lucy? Others can’t use her, that’s not fair to other characters.

my point is that all the items you mentioned are tied to character perks directly, giving character specific items to others isn’t “synergy” most of the time it’s just giving character perks to other characters

[Anis5240]

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

my point is that all the items you mentioned are tied to character perks directly, giving character specific items to others isn’t “synergy” most of the time it’s just giving character perks to other characters

by this logic wurt shouldn't even be able to read wicker books, even if it's just for sanity gain/loss.

[YouKnowWho142]

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

by this logic wurt shouldn't even be able to read wicker books, even if it's just for sanity gain/loss.

That’s a lore specific reason and purely flavor, there’s nothing lore specific or flavorful to storing food in a basket made for elixirs, Wendy has an item she can share to others anyway

[Walrusst]

Honestly its one of the coolest things that the game is simulationy-enough that teamplay oriented abilities often play well with yourself if your are clever.

Winowna has proven that being overly exclusives almost kinda pointless.  You can share a LOT and just have added value that makes you feel distinct and important instead.
Walter can give you butterfly strips, but he heals sanity when he is the one using them.

Wickerbottom would be one of the goats if she got an equal amount of new books that were exclusive at the same time as getting new books which were designed to be shared with those hard of reading, like wilson.

[Tranoze]

12 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Should characters other than woodie be able to use Lucy? Others can’t use her, that’s not fair to other characters.

my point is that all the items you mentioned are tied to character perks directly, giving character specific items to others isn’t “synergy” most of the time it’s just giving character perks to other characters

Finally someone like you appeared. I wont blame you, but this ideal of not giving each other any perks is why we got "character swapping problem" in klei mind right now. And there are other say "character swapping is not a problem".

9 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

That’s a lore specific reason and purely flavor, there’s nothing lore specific or flavorful to storing food in a basket made for elixirs

There no need to be a lore when it come to common knowledge.
Are there any lore needed for torch to make fire and grant light? no, no need.