HowlVoid Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 First I want to quickly remind everyone the skills Wormwood was given: 1. A skill for the character that doesn't heal from food to be able to catch butterflies. 2. Skills dedicated to increasing Wormwoods "tending" range when in full bloom. 3 skills dedicated to it when he could simply... walk into range. 3. A skill to summon the lord of fruitflies sooner. A boss which has 0 synergy with the character other than to further force Wormwood into a farming role. 4. I think there was a skill to make fruitflies friendly? Klei really wanted to force Wormwood into a tiny section of the base. Why is this important? Because amongst all this redundancy and impracticallity this branch survived any tweaks. But today im only hear to talk about: Sappling Crafting 5 twigs + 5 Health Note: Lunar sapplings have quite literally no distinction from normal sapplings. Literally none. Please note this picture: A normal starting location, note the number of sappligs. Now what sounds more reasonable: Crafting a shovel, two twigs and two flits to dig up 25 sappligs. Or Spending 125 twigs and 125 hp to craft 25 sappligs? How many sappligs do you figure are in one world? 100? 200? What if you count the ones underground? 300? Yes, Wormwood has an amazing skill tree. Yes, you can use many of these amazing skills without having to interact with this one. But why must something be so objectively terrible? No other character in the game has a skill that introduces an already existing item you find 2 seconds from spawning but at 5x the cost. The closest is Woodie's woodworker but that's cheaper not more expensive? Imagine if Woodie's planks cost 5 wood instead of 4. You'd scratch your head, just why? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 I completely agree wormwood got the short end of the stick (pun not intended) by getting one of the earliest skill trees (just like Wolfgang) and tbh I doubt Klei will revisit it but I do hope they take some time to shuffle a few things around, even if it comes off as a “skill tree rework” Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theukon-dos Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 The one that really gets me is the removal of the perk that let Wormwood passively produce petals. Because Klei said that it was removed because of "unintended results". But that just makes me ask 1. What did it allow that pushed Klei over the edge to remove it? 2. What did they actually intend for the petals skill to do in the first place? Was it burning the petals for ash to make into healing salves? Was it being able to feed beefalo the petals? Was the goal of the perk just too let Wormwood make flower garlands and pretty parasols for cheap? What gives? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 Once again asking for the creation of the crafting station for plants. I had a name I trademarked... let me find it. I couldnt find it Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 2 hours ago, Guille6785 said: I completely agree wormwood got the short end of the stick by getting one of the earliest skill trees (just like Wolfgang) and tbh I doubt Klei will revisit it but I do hope they take some time to shuffle a few things around, even if it comes off as a “skill tree rework” The beta branch has already basically given multiple characters a sort of "skill tree rework". They've also done what should be done here and consolidated some pointless redundant "This thing", "This thing again, but number bigger", "This thing again, but number even bigger" skills. Here's hoping Wormwood can get something similar, even if it's just a few tweaks. Most of his skills are good and need zero changes at all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 I think there's an easy way to fix the lunar saplings perk: add the ability to craft either grass gekkos to it, or a special new grass tuft that doesn't need fertilized. That way, whatever worldgen you end up with (twiggy trees, grass gekkos, or both), you'd have a perk that'll ensure you can set up resource production. Also, maybe lower the twig cost for the saplings. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edible Coal Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 is kinda funny how wormwood skill tree looks a lot ulgy once we taste how real skill tree like walter exist Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 3 minutes ago, Edible Coal said: is kinda funny how wormwood skill tree looks a lot ulgy more like the early ones barely have anything to distinguish them between characters winaynay? shelves Wendy? Ouija board everyone else? just crickets plain old boring looks Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edible Coal Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 9 minutes ago, Anis5240 said: more like the early ones barely have anything to distinguish them between characters winaynay? shelves Wendy? Ouija board everyone else? just crickets plain old boring looks i wasnt refering to the looks of the tree but eh, lets not forget wolfgang skill tree has literally no decoration Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowercase skye Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 6 hours ago, HowlVoid said: But why must something be so objectively terrible? Subjectively. It's not hard to think of a situation where one would want to craft a sapling that has a different appearance (megabasing). I'm not saying you personally have to like it, but this is an incorrect use of the word "objectively." Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethin Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 8 minutes ago, lowercase skye said: Subjectively. It's not hard to think of a situation where one would want to craft a sapling that has a different appearance (megabasing). I'm not saying you personally have to like it, but this is an incorrect use of the word "objectively." It's funny you mention megabasing since this skill doesn't even allow you to craft grass tufts to complete the basic resource duo and a thing that can actually threatened to go extict via conversion to geckos (though very unlikely and takes a long time but could happen) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 7 minutes ago, somethin said: craft grass tufts to complete the basic resource duo and a thing that can actually threatened to go extinct via conversion to geckos meh reaper is there to prevent such thing from happening, love that thing Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonHiggs Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 Without entering in how balanced or imbalanced has become walter, i really wish klei revisits previous skill to make them more similar with Walter's. There are no filler skills, everyone is useful and can be considered in certain situations and is one of the skill trees with more configurations (i hope they reduce the conditions to pick "woby there/here" tho). Is sad to compare Walter's to wormwood's left braches; woodie's, Wigfrid's Wolfgang’s, wortox's and Wilson's entire trees... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BezKa Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 Hm? Older skill trees aren't as good as the new, more powerful skill trees? There was a word for that I believe... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1798973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceShiki Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 2 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said: Without entering in how balanced or imbalanced has become walter, i really wish klei revisits previous skill to make them more similar with Walter's. There are no filler skills, everyone is useful and can be considered in certain situations and is one of the skill trees with more configurations (i hope they reduce the conditions to pick "woby there/here" tho). Is sad to compare Walter's to wormwood's left braches; woodie's, Wigfrid's Wolfgang’s, wortox's and Wilson's entire trees... Walter was the most hated character in the game. That's why he got a Willow-tier Skill Tree. Characters that already see play won't get that. Walter needed this skill tree because nobody played him in the first place. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 6 minutes ago, AliceShiki said: Walter needed this skill tree because nobody played him in the first place. @Catuna_ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceShiki Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 Just now, Anis5240 said: @Catuna_ In case it isn't obvious, "nobody" was hyperbole... >.> Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted February 18, 2025 Author Share Posted February 18, 2025 6 hours ago, lowercase skye said: Subjectively. It's not hard to think of a situation where one would want to craft a sapling that has a different appearance (megabasing). I'm not saying you personally have to like it, but this is an incorrect use of the word "objectively." Nope, it's objectively the worst skill. I have compared it to every other skills in the game in this tier. Most are boosts or introduce a new interaction to the game. When you think of it objectively it has almost 0 use cases. What you've just described is subjective because megabasing is more about "aesthetic" and less about gameplay value. Appearance is literally a subjective value. You can encounter 10-80 sapplings at spawn. That is not subjective but a numerical fact in how quickly this skill is outclassed. If the best defence is "it has a use, that use is it looks pretty", that's not really a good argument to something having small to none gameplay value. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonHiggs Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 1 hour ago, BezKa said: Hm? Older skill trees aren't as good as the new, more powerful skill trees? There was a word for that I believe... Precisely Wolfgang’s and willow's added some of the stronger buffs and skills Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethin Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 4 hours ago, Anis5240 said: meh reaper is there to prevent such thing from happening, love that thing I love that thing too, but before I get the scythe an angel sheds a tear when one converts while I pick some grass I replanted, leaving holes in my immaculately placed position. I still want the skill to include grass tufts tho. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonHiggs Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 55 minutes ago, AliceShiki said: Walter was the most hated character in the game. That's why he got a Willow-tier Skill Tree. Characters that already see play won't get that. Walter needed this skill tree because nobody played him in the first place. Nobody is asking for powerful skills. Walter's portable campfire isnt powerful but is something funnier than simply having a filler skill like wortox's "souls come at you faster" or a downside removal like a lot of woodie's skill points Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y0sH Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 37 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said: Nobody is asking for powerful skills. Walter's portable campfire isnt powerful but is something funnier than simply having a filler skill like wortox's "souls come at you faster" or a downside removal like a lot of woodie's skill points THIS!! Jesus the amount of filler in Wortox's Skilltree is insane. 7 hours ago, Anis5240 said: winaynay? Lol this made me chuckle Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-met Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 we're not even half into refresh 2 that people already hope for refresh 3? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 5 hours ago, BezKa said: Hm? Older skill trees aren't as good as the new, more powerful skill trees? There was a word for that I believe... experience? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 2 hours ago, HowlVoid said: Nope, it's objectively the worst skill. What you've just described is subjective because megabasing is more about "aesthetic" and less about gameplay value. Aesthetic in a sandbox game is quite literally gameplay value Without regrowth there is no other way to get more lunar saplings, much less in as controlled of a fashion even with regrowth turned on - inarguably, this presents a use for the skill that a player (such as myself) could find eons more important than X or Y from that tree. The word objective does not apply here Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164204-quite-possibly-the-most-tone-deaf-skill-in-the-game/#findComment-1799132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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