Can we move on?

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Lee Sy said:

It's common to run a game 10 years with continuing skin income, hard in the whole world, but there're still a lot examples. 

Klei didn't update all of it for free, it's unlike Stardew Valley, Minecraft or Terraia, which are also popular in China. Tencent give them money, Klei sold skins, it's a mature model in China, so that's not weird to update for 10 years in this system.

Players pay for updates, developers update for player, that's fair.

Man you guys have a lot to learn.. skins and skins alone by themselves can not make ANY Game stay popular or profitable for very long. There has to be *New Content* there has to be something that actively keeps the player engaged, the player has to actually WANT to play the game for more then just buying skins skins skins skins skins…

Case in Point: Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League has some really good skins that lets you customize your heroes with various outfits from throughout comic/game history… however: the actual gameplay is boring repetitive loop of doing the same thing over and over and over again- And those skins: Are Overpriced at 20-30$ each.

I don’t care if they added Batman Arkham Harleys Revenge Mourning Harley to the game- If I’ve already completed the campaign, if there’s NOTHING left to do that feels *New* then there’s no way in blue blazing hades am I ever paying 30$ for ONE character skin, even if Mourning Harley happens to be my favorite outfit she’s ever worn… if the Game isn’t Fun and isn’t getting updates: The Game Dies.

DST keeps players playing not because of *Skins* But rather: Klei keeps putting out new content alongside those skins to keep the player engaged enough to want to buy those skins.

Rather Thats character skill trees, a new boss fight, a new island biome, the return of the Forge Event or Whatever…. There has to be something the player wants to use their “new skins” on to experience…. To actively keep them coming back for more.

[DVGMedia]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Man you guys have a lot to learn.. skins and skins alone by themselves can not make ANY Game stay popular or profitable for very long. There has to be *New Content

Thing is though DST is different from those.
Dst is kind of a social game where the Game server is just a place you can chat with friends while achieving a goal within the game

[Steorra]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Man you guys have a lot to learn.. skins and skins alone by themselves can not make ANY Game stay popular or profitable for very long

That wouldn't be a reason to say "the game is free" to those who paid for youtooz and funko sets. 

Some people paid for DST development, they have their right to expect something from future of DST. Now they have to be blamed as "the game is free! You should have no expectations" by who never paid?

[Lee Sy]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Man you guys have a lot to learn.. skins and skins alone by themselves can not make ANY Game stay popular or profitable for very long. There has to be *New Content* there has to be something that actively keeps the player engaged, the player has to actually WANT to play the game for more then just buying skins skins skins skins skins…

Case in Point: Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League has some really good skins that lets you customize your heroes with various outfits from throughout comic/game history… however: the actual gameplay is boring repetitive loop of doing the same thing over and over and over again- And those skins: Are Overpriced at 20-30$ each.

I don’t care if they added Batman Arkham Harleys Revenge Mourning Harley to the game- If I’ve already completed the campaign, if there’s NOTHING left to do that feels *New* then there’s no way in blue blazing hades am I ever paying 30$ for ONE character skin, even if Mourning Harley happens to be my favorite outfit she’s ever worn… if the Game isn’t Fun and isn’t getting updates: The Game Dies.

DST keeps players playing not because of *Skins* But rather: Klei keeps putting out new content alongside those skins to keep the player engaged enough to want to buy those skins.

Rather Thats character skill trees, a new boss fight, a new island biome, the return of the Forge Event or Whatever…. There has to be something the player wants to use their “new skins” on to experience…. To actively keep them coming back for more.

We are not talking about the same thing.

我们说的不是一回事。

I said it for those people who claimed that Klei do all things for free, how generous they are, working hard for ten years, great klei!

我是说给那些声称科雷免费更新的人听的。科雷是多么慷慨，不辞辛劳数十年，不求回报，科雷伟大！

Producing high-quality updates continually is not easy, that's why we will pay for it in the form of skins.

持续产出高质量的更新内容确实不易，这也是为什么我们会以皮肤的形式支持它。

The situation is that only few satisfactory updates in 2024. More and more terrible designs, lazy attitude, lack of communication with Chinese players, less updates compared with before…

但现在情况是，在2024年，几乎没什么令人满意的更新。越来越多糟糕的设计，懒散的态度，与中国玩家缺乏沟通，相较之前更少的更新内容……

As we are calling for something that Klei need to do, some guys came out and said that, Klei is good, Klei is professional, Klei is great, Klei is best, Klei is perfect… Enough

而当我们呼吁科雷需要做些改变时，总有一些人跳出来说，科雷宝宝已经很好啦，科雷宝宝很专业，科雷宝宝那么努力你看不到吗，科雷最好啦，完美的科雷！

我受够了

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

Thing is though DST is different from those.
Dst is kind of a social game where the Game server is just a place you can chat with friends while achieving a goal within the game

I have to say the server service of DST in China is also terrible. Many people have to rent cloud server or use game accelerator to play with friends, Klei never try to improve it, May it costs, but no such problem when I play other foreign games.

我得说饥荒在中国的联机服务很糟糕，很多人必须要靠租赁云服或使用加速器才能和朋友一起游玩，科雷从未试图改善这些，可能需要成本，但我在玩其他外国游戏时并没有类似问题。

[Soul7k]

6 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

The slingshot was definitely very weak unless in certain conditions, it had a ton of issues, ammo storage was bad, ammo choices were bad, overall damage was so difficult to justify over Wilson with a darksword. But, I think klei went a little over board with it. They fixed every issue I had with the slingshot in the tree; I genuinely think Walter is balanced between downside and upside now. However a little sad his tree is all slingshot. (Woby's side is flawed I know it exists tho, it has 1 good skill) I expected the slingshot to be upgraded, I just also expected ya know... other stuff? Walter does have more to him than slingshot, he's a camp scout, he should be way more quialified for survival than a lot of other survivors, they could have emphasized on that aspect a lot more than they did.

8 points for just ammo and 6 for the slingshot is wild. let alone the what 6 for Woby, which you can only spend 3 in because you only have enough points in Woby training for 2 2nd level perks...I get there was an idea there, but it is actually detrimental to spend all your points in Woby when it shouldn't be. I'm holding my reservations until the next update tho.

[Dr. Safety]

15 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

I have mixed feelings. My worry is that they're going to release Walter's new skills and then kick it into live without giving us time for feedback because there's only so much time that they're willing to spend on this, which would be a shame.

This is my biggest fear. It feels like most of Klei's energy is going towards tweaking a character who was already on the stronger side before her skill tree came out. I truly believe that they are giving a lot of love to Walter behind the scenes, but it feels like that was slowed to a crawl because Abigail can't solo bosses which urgently needed looked at (joking, but you get what I'm trying to say).

Walter was such a clunky and unpopular character, and should clearly have been the center focus of this batch of skill trees, but he hasn't been because people want an already very popular character to have no filler skill perks and only impactful ones.

I really hope Warly's skill tree doesn't come out alongside Webber or Maxwell because I feel like those two have a similar following to Wendy, and will also leave little room for discussion on whoever else comes out alongside them.

[WereBruhver]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I really hope Warly's skill tree doesn't come out alongside Webber or Maxwell because I feel like those two have a similar following to Wendy, and will also leave little room for discussion on whoever else comes out alongside them.

They don't, most of the players that keep bringing Wendy up on conversations in the past two months regard Maxwell - or old mac as they call him - as a strong character and they almost don't talk about Webber, you should be scared about having Warly skill tree come alongside Wickerbottom or Wanda tho, they seem to like them a lot, but even then its nowhere near the popularity of Wendy. Best outcome for Warly would be its skilltree coming alongside Wes's skill tree.

[Soul7k]

16 minutes ago, WereBruhver said:

They don't, most of the players that keep bringing Wendy up on conversations in the past two months regard Maxwell - or old mac as they call him - as a strong character and they almost don't talk about Webber, you should be scared about having Warly skill tree come alongside Wickerbottom or Wanda tho, they seem to like them a lot, but even then its nowhere near the popularity of Wendy. Best outcome for Warly would be its skilltree coming alongside Wes's skill tree.

I don't even play her, but Wicker tree gonna go crazy

[Y0sH]

21 minutes ago, WereBruhver said:

They don't, most of the players that keep bringing Wendy up on conversations in the past two months regard Maxwell - or old mac as they call him - as a strong character and they almost don't talk about Webber, you should be scared about having Warly skill tree come alongside Wickerbottom or Wanda tho, they seem to like them a lot, but even then its nowhere near the popularity of Wendy. Best outcome for Warly would be its skilltree coming alongside Wes's skill tree.

I just hope they do Wanda's Skilltree correctly and don't fall for the "Wanda is OP" propaganda. It seems they only bring her up when they wanna use her as a scapegoat as to why their character is woefully underpowered compared to Wanda. Granted, no character is as popular as Wendy so I'm glad that this will end soon. Unfortunately my favorite character (Wortox) got wrapped up with this.

 

8 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

I don't even play her, but Wicker tree gonna go crazy

Definitely gunna be Wild lol. I think Webber's will be too.

[Frosty_Mentos]

20 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

I just hope they do Wanda's Skilltree correctly and don't fall for the "Wanda is OP" propaganda.

Wanda too OP send her to live in the smallest blue house in Ohio.

[Danila6300]

I would also like them to move on to Walter and Vortox sooner. Wendy has been given a lot of time and there will always be dissatisfied people, no matter what the changes. 

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

This is my biggest fear. It feels like most of Klei's energy is going towards tweaking a character who was already on the stronger side before her skill tree came out. I truly believe that they are giving a lot of love to Walter behind the scenes, but it feels like that was slowed to a crawl because Abigail can't solo bosses which urgently needed looked at (joking, but you get what I'm trying to say).

Walter was such a clunky and unpopular character, and should clearly have been the center focus of this batch of skill trees, but he hasn't been because people want an already very popular character to have no filler skill perks and only impactful ones.

I really hope Warly's skill tree doesn't come out alongside Webber or Maxwell because I feel like those two have a similar following to Wendy, and will also leave little room for discussion on whoever else comes out alongside them.

That's my concern too it feels like once they finish making Wendy acceptable they'll push the update out which would really suck considering they've been promising to revise the Woby branch for the entire 2 months, the lunar branch has zero redeeming qualities and none of his pure damage based rounds compete with his default ammo.

[Anis5240]

2 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

no filler skill perks

no one wants filler perks that fill over half of the skill tree anyway. should be kept at a minimum of 3 at best.

[Dr. Safety]

11 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

no one wants filler perks that fill over half of the skill tree anyway. should be kept at a minimum of 3 at best.

We'd still be revising Wilson's skill tree to this day if we cared about that. I agree that impactful ones are better than filler, but we can't expect the skill tree of an already powerful character to be game changing. Look at Wolfgang's tree. This is especially frustrating when Wortox and Walter, 2 characters who arguably need more attention than Wendy, are getting put on the backburner because WendyOneTrick#6493 is upset that Wendy still has some things that she is only average at doing

[Anis5240]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

if we cared about that

if Klei ever cared about that

[Dr. Safety]

Just now, Anis5240 said:

if Klei ever cared about that

Valid.

Ultimately Klei does what Klei does, and I imagine it's good business to keep the people who play the popular character happy. I just wish they were happy getting what everyone else got

[Steorra]

40 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's my concern too it feels like once they finish making Wendy acceptable they'll push the update out which would really suck considering they've been promising to revise the Woby branch for the entire 2 months, the lunar branch has zero redeeming qualities and none of his pure damage based rounds compete with his default ammo.

I'm a bit confusing about this.

How could (dare) Klei give a decision to devour what they promised? The only reason seems could be "because whatever Klei did wrong, only minority would care."

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I'm a bit confusing about this.

How could (dare) Klei give a decision to devour what they promised? The only reason seems could be "because whatever Klei did wrong, only minority would care."

The issue isn't really broken promises but the fact that we're months into this beta but Walter hasn't even gotten to his first finalized build which means unless his first finalized build is released this Thursday and we don't end this beta until at least 2 weeks into February to give time for feedback and tweaks it'll be a case of Klei having dropped the ball harder than any previous skill tree despite saying the beta was delayed to do just that.

At the same time I imagine a lot of people will lose their minds if we have 2 more weeks of this as well. It just seems the priorities of this beta were really out of order.

[Bumber64]

I think shadow Abi is due for a nerf before leaving beta. Her planar defense is slightly too high for a form designed for offense. It's 30 at max, IIRC, which is very strong against ink blight. It could stand to be reduced to 20, possibly 15.

Is the Cursed Vexation multiplier slightly too high? IDK. You need pure horror to craft it, and it has lower effectiveness on planar bosses, so there's a narrow use for it to kill normal bosses after you've already killed NM werepig. It's really great at hitting any non-planar target, though.

These stand out because gestalt Abi doesn't offer much equivalent value, especially after being nerfed.

What if Luminous Wrath got the vexation effect instead? You get a high multiplier (mainly for Wendy) but no AoE. That seems like it would somewhat balance the two forms. (It might make shadow Abi even better at trio, brightshades, etc., if she got the bonus planar damage in return, however.)

[Chewabacca]

I want to generally remind people that we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes at Klei. We don't know that working on Wendy is the reason that it's taking so long to get the trees out. We know that this update is holding them back on other stuff, because they've mentioned that they're having difficulty juggling this and other things, but that's different from any one tree being the one to blame. There are other factors to take into account, like the winter break, doing 3 characters at once, and working on other stuff for the new year and coming updates. Just because the forums are all about Wendy doesn't mean the office is, and the most recent set of changes wasn't anything so major that it's reasonable to think it took resources from the Walter or Wortox devs. I think the reason that we have less news on the Walter front is because they're planning on making lots of changes to the Woby branch and aren't satisfied yet. Wortox players have more reason to be worried, but still: there are other possible explanations than the one Klei has told us isn't true.

[YouKnowWho142]

2 hours ago, BrixGoBrrr said:

My immediate reaction to "Can we move on?" was Eff No! because the ableist rhetoric continues! ..but... this isn't actually a new problem, nor one to be fixed through a beta or skilltree.. but it is a problem for some of us, 

So, my goal in labelling it here right now as i type this, is truly not to call anyone out! I don't see the point in guilt or blame, or in focusing on any 1 person or any 1 timeframe, i just don't see much benefit to that. 

Because it's not 1 person, it's not 1 type of person, it's not 1 cluster or category of people, it's a Pattern! 

It's a pattern that ripples through the DST community regularly, the first instance I've noticed was yrs ago, and here it's been again recently in a few ways, like it does, just like how it moves & ripples through other aspects and domains of life, too. 
 

But I'm better able to point in out now, compared to when I was first around this community years ago, and this space more than most in life feels worth the effort, bc folks here generally & genuinely care about how we treat each other! So I hope sharing this info & this framing of it, helps someone some time ever  

I'm really confused what you're actually trying to convey here

[gaymime]

9 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

I want to generally remind people that we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes at Klei. We don't know that working on Wendy is the reason that it's taking so long to get the trees out. We know that this update is holding them back on other stuff, because they've mentioned that they're having difficulty juggling this and other things, but that's different from any one tree being the one to blame. There are other factors to take into account, like the winter break, doing 3 characters at once, and working on other stuff for the new year and coming updates. Just because the forums are all about Wendy doesn't mean the office is, and the most recent set of changes wasn't anything so major that it's reasonable to think it took resources from the Walter or Wortox devs. I think the reason that we have less news on the Walter front is because they're planning on making lots of changes to the Woby branch and aren't satisfied yet. Wortox players have more reason to be worried, but still: there are other possible explanations than the one Klei has told us isn't true.

also don't forget they have been updating two other games at the same time; rotwood and oni

[BrixGoBrrr]

50 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm sorry, what

The original question is "Can we move on?" 
And my gut-reaction to that was a "No, not quite yet, because..."

.. bc there's been ableism in the mix, that i've not seen mentioned or acknowledged, so, before we move on, I want to acknowledge it. 

.. I'm not clear on what you're confused about, so, lmk if you have a question? 

[Chewabacca]

8 minutes ago, gaymime said:

also don't forget they have been updating two other games at the same time; rotwood and oni

This is true but my impression is that they’re being worked on by different teams and the office of Don’t Starve is still complete without them, if that makes sense. Not as if either of them are temporary.

Just now, BrixGoBrrr said:

The original question is "Can we move on?" 
And my gut-reaction to that was a "No, not quite yet, because..."

.. bc there's been ableism in the mix, that i've not seen mentioned or acknowledged, so, before we move on, I want to acknowledge it. 

.. I'm not clear on what you're confused about, so, lmk if you have a question? 

Could you please point out specific examples of the ableism that has been occurring? I’m not exactly sure what you’re talking about.

[BrixGoBrrr]

Just now, Chewabacca said:

Could you please point out specific examples of the ableism that has been occurring? I’m not exactly sure what you’re talking about.

I'm inclined to say No, because specificity to the point of listing a few examples, can far too easily be read as personal attacks, and that's not really my goal or my point. 

Does it help for me to clarify, that none of what I said was intended to be a reply to your post directly before mine? It was in response to the thread's question, "Can we move on?"