Can we move on?

[Frosty_Mentos]

Wendy seems... fine as is and always was since Abigail's multiplayer mechanics. Skilltree only made her much better and made Wendy have more involvement in Abigail's upgrades and general ghost related mechanics.

I don't see her needing more to her kit since she's just solid overall. I think more control on Abigail made her into a minion that's way more powerful than before.

We should really finish up with whatever is cooking for Walter right now and settle with what we get.

I'm saying this partially for being frustrated for how long it's taking but mostly that we probably shouldn't take this long just to finish some skill trees. Assuming Klei is working on other things and are slowly modifying the skilltrees in between, hopefully it's not eating up at their time of development cause there's still a lot of skill trees to make.

[Echsrick]

yea, wortox and walter realy need the attention more right now

[SilverSpoon]

Nobody can stop people from still being not satisfied with current Wendy, and shouldn't.

If we absolutely must move on, it's probably quicker to say "we don't mind if there's no heal penalty for Sistern III" or "we don't mind how strong Wendy gets."

[YouKnowWho142]

To be honest, aside from the Abigail commands, more elixirs/elixir buffs, and improved Abigail survivability, all I really wanted from Wendy's skill tree was flavor. I think the skill tree as is is pretty sufficient for that and I haven't had many issues with the skill tree at all (aside from the fact that it was being changed frequently). I even like skills like the one that lets player ghosts deal damage, I think it's fun and I will enjoy using it with my friends, since even if i have well over 1000 hours in the game I understand that my friends do not.

Even Wendy as is was never in the strongest need for a skill tree. The reason she hasn't had completely game changing skills that Woodie, Willow, and Winona got is because she never really needed them. She has a clear strength and a clear weakness (even if I personally didn't enjoy just how polarizing they are), and the skill tree at least serves to add that flavor as well as make her only real upside, Abigail, more enjoyable and, again, flavorful. 

I get people want Wendy to be in their perfect image, but that is never going to happen. Very few people had issues with her prior to the skill tree reveal, and in her current state I can see her as retaining her noob friendly status while giving an incentive for more veteran players like myself to play. I see myself quite enjoying the tree overall after they make tweaks and minor changes.

[DegenerateFurry]

I still think Wendy needs some minor adjustments (moon moth resurrection from the butterfly perk, lowered cooldowns on Team Spirit skills, and an improved haunt effect chance, mainly), but that's all, no big overhauls are needed at this point. 

Unless giving us configurable hotkeys for the Team Spirit skills counts as a big overhaul, but I don't think it should since someone made a mod to do that within, like, a week of their implementation into the beta. 

[Steorra]

15 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

but mostly that we probably shouldn't take this long just to finish some skill trees

Have you ever thought that this is the original intention of skill trees?

[Evelo]

I enjoyed most of her skill tree initially, now I feel it adds too much and makes her far too powerful. But whatever, it is still in an acceptable condition. Though Gestalt Abby needs some adjustment in her behavior.

[BalkanCockroach]

I really don't understand the latest patch. It seemed Wenders wanted some skills changed and altered. Instead this nerf happened and there's more outcry than ever.

[Guille6785]

please end this misery and just release wendy and wortox and dedicate the development time to walter

[xhyom]

The thing is: Klei doesn't seem very willing to simply do what they're demanding for Wendy, they have no intention of breaking their own game to please a portion of the community apparently, so why, why are they holding on to this beta with their teeth to prolong this discussion? If they had released it the way it was, which is not much different from the way it is now after the last update, we might have been in something else a long time ago. I don't know, if they're not going to do what they're going to ask (which won't lead anywhere, since they'll ask for something else later) why purposefully keep themselves in this situation?

[Mike23Ua]

Spoiler

There’s actually only 6 more skill trees to make, assuming they have no plans to ever port over the remaining cast of DS/SW/HAM.

That said: I doubt these skill trees are taking up time and development resources Klei could spend doing other types of content.. they pretty much had the skill concepts thought out to co-exist with unreleased future contents (or at least I hope so anyway…)

[xhyom]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I really don't understand the latest patch. It seemed Wenders wanted some skills changed and altered. Instead this nerf happened and there's more outcry than ever.

And it took like a month???... It was another month of the game wearing itself out to create more conflict with Wendy players

[Radicaljoe]

8 minutes ago, xhyom said:

The thing is: Klei doesn't seem very willing to simply do what they're demanding for Wendy, they have no intention of breaking their own game to please a portion of the community apparently, so why, why are they holding on to this beta with their teeth to prolong this discussion? If they had released it the way it was, which is not much different from the way it is now after the last update, we might have been in something else a long time ago. I don't know, if they're not going to do what they're going to ask (which won't lead anywhere, since they'll ask for something else later) why purposefully keep themselves in this situation?

I think it was because Walter is still unfinished. Poor fella has been sitting outside in the waiting room for a lot of the beta. 

[Chewabacca]

I have mixed feelings. My worry is that they're going to release Walter's new skills and then kick it into live without giving us time for feedback because there's only so much time that they're willing to spend on this, which would be a shame. I would especially be disappointed if he only has Woby skills, and no boy scout skills of his own (the one about him being able to harvest non-replanted plants for double the resources has come up a lot, for example). And from what Wortox mains have said, he could use some adjustment as well.

That said: I liked Walter before he had any skills, and I'll continue to like him even if his tree doesn't answer all of my hopes (except for the Woby hunger meter and the training board becoming mobile. Seriously, Klei, that's non-negotiable). I assume the same is true for most players, regardless of character.

[Soul7k]

2 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

I have mixed feelings. My worry is that they're going to release Walter's new skills and then kick it into live without giving us time for feedback because there's only so much time that they're willing to spend on this, which would be a shame. I would especially be disappointed if he only has Woby skills, and no boy scout skills of his own (the one about him being able to harvest non-replanted plants for double the resources has come up a lot, for example). And from what Wortox mains have said, he could use some adjustment as well.

That said: I liked Walter before he had any skills, and I'll continue to like him even if his tree doesn't answer all of my hopes (except for the Woby hunger meter and the training board becoming mobile. Seriously, Klei, that's non-negotiable). I assume the same is true for most players, regardless of character.

with any luck it'll recieve passes after beta like Wormwood and Willow did. Just wish they took one more pass and Burning Bernie didn't cost 9 points to get, but that's besides the point.

[Guille6785]

^My biggest gripe with this update is the fact that due to the whole thing with wendy's skill tree Walter will most likely be forever doomed to have the half finished skill tree and his character will never be improved to a significant degree

[Chewabacca]

I feel like because a lot of people think they know what's wrong with Walter but not a lot of people actually play him regularly, Klei got a bit confused about what people found lacking in Walter and focused way more on the slingshot than was necessary. And then Walter mains popped into the forums and said "actually we want a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't really have to do with the slingshot at all" when, again, Klei was thinking that the slingshot would be pretty much the whole thing. I have seen some people have things to say about making it better (dreadstone rounds were underwhelming (fixed, or at least given a special effect), shockscrap was also found to be underwhelming, so were the lunar-aligned rounds, the sticky grip didn't really have a use (fixed)), but by and large Walter mains seem more concerned with stuff that I'm not sure the devs even expected us to be thinking about. I'm speaking as someone who doesn't care that much about the slingshot myself, though, so might be biased.

[Well-met]

i blame wilson it's all wilson's fault that we have to suffer refresh 2: boogaloo

the first refresh wasn't even cold from completition yet and they began another round of it.....

[Chewabacca]

Broke: everything is Wendy's fault
Woke: everything is Wilson's fault

[Frosty_Mentos]

Honestly. At this point we prolly should move on from Walter and Wortox too. Wortox is in a healthy powerful state and Walter has his rapidfire and Woby utility.

I really don't understand why Klei is entertaining the mains here that there's something wrong with them when they're this decent right now.

If there's anything glaring looking issue wise we could try pointing those things out, but I've kinda only seen people being slightly too petty over one mechanic or another being lesser than other when we got other skill trees that kinda have the same and exists for alternative playstyles.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Honestly. At this point we prolly should move on from Walter and Wortox too. Wortox is in a healthy powerful state and Walter has his rapidfire and Woby utility.

I really don't understand why Klei is entertaining the mains here that there's something wrong with them when they're this decent right now.

If there's anything glaring looking issue wise we could try pointing those things out, but I've kinda only seen people being slightly too petty over one mechanic or another being lesser than other when we got other skill trees that kinda have the same and exists for alternative playstyles.

Walter has serveral major design issues problems that kind of can't be ignored be it balancing issues, lack of skills, or just half his skill tree being missing. Wortox could go live without tweaks but he's still lacking in a few areas as well. As for Wendy she has a bug currently with lunar abi but that doesn't really require much to fix.

[Radicaljoe]

3 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

I feel like because a lot of people think they know what's wrong with Walter but not a lot of people actually play him regularly, Klei got a bit confused about what people found lacking in Walter and focused way more on the slingshot than was necessary. And then Walter mains popped into the forums and said "actually we want a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't really have to do with the slingshot at all" when, again, Klei was thinking that the slingshot would be pretty much the whole thing. I have seen some people have things to say about making it better (dreadstone rounds were underwhelming (fixed, or at least given a special effect), shockscrap was also found to be underwhelming, so were the lunar-aligned rounds, the sticky grip didn't really have a use (fixed)), but by and large Walter mains seem more concerned with stuff that I'm not sure the devs even expected us to be thinking about. I'm speaking as someone who doesn't care that much about the slingshot myself, though, so might be biased.

The slingshot was definitely very weak unless in certain conditions, it had a ton of issues, ammo storage was bad, ammo choices were bad, overall damage was so difficult to justify over Wilson with a darksword. But, I think klei went a little over board with it. They fixed every issue I had with the slingshot in the tree; I genuinely think Walter is balanced between downside and upside now. However a little sad his tree is all slingshot. (Woby's side is flawed I know it exists tho, it has 1 good skill) I expected the slingshot to be upgraded, I just also expected ya know... other stuff? Walter does have more to him than slingshot, he's a camp scout, he should be way more quialified for survival than a lot of other survivors, they could have emphasized on that aspect a lot more than they did.

[Mike23Ua]

19 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Honestly. At this point we prolly should move on from Walter and Wortox too. Wortox is in a healthy powerful state and Walter has his rapidfire and Woby utility.

I really don't understand why Klei is entertaining the mains here that there's something wrong with them when they're this decent right now.

If there's anything glaring looking issue wise we could try pointing those things out, but I've kinda only seen people being slightly too petty over one mechanic or another being lesser than other when we got other skill trees that kinda have the same and exists for alternative playstyles.

It’s crazy to think that DST has been around for 10 years… not Dont Starve but DST… And see here’s the thing: Games don’t just continue to exist for 10 years without massive innovation and changes.

Minecrafts & Fortnite have been around for forever but look at how much those changes over the years..

DST is trying to make that shift NOW by giving characters fun new Reworks, Re-ReWorks, and Skill Trees (Reworks Part 3) and once Klei finally FINALLY has all the character Reworks completed (without rushing them so they feel lackluster and disappointing) when we’re finally DONE for real this time…

Then & only then will they have this update cast of playable characters with new perks and abilities that play more like a Dont Starve Sequel released in 2025… then it will just being small & insignificant updates to a game that’s over stayed its welcome.

Once they finally have a fun cast of characters, then we can focus on updating the REST of the game to match them, with new weather effects, mob types, Over-Hauled Combat mechanics etc etc..

Because- Klei would have to be complete idiots to have invested as much time as they have adding an explorable ocean to DST & reworking & skill tree reworking characters- If they just planned to slowdown or discontinue support for the 10 year old game.

To put that into a much more clearer perspective Marvel's Avengers, Gotham Knights & Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League got roughly 1 year of support before the developers abandoned them.

But MEANWHILE- Destiny 2, No Mans Sky etc etc are still going strong.

[Lee Sy]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s crazy to think that DST has been around for 10 years… not Dont Starve but DST… And see here’s the thing: Games don’t just continue to exist for 10 years without massive innovation and changes.

Minecrafts & Fortnite have been around for forever but look at how much those changes over the years..

DST is trying to make that shift NOW by giving characters fun new Reworks, Re-ReWorks, and Skill Trees (Reworks Part 3) and once Klei finally FINALLY has all the character Reworks completed (without rushing them so they feel lackluster and disappointing) when we’re finally DONE for real this time…

Then & only then will they have this update cast of playable characters with new perks and abilities that play more like a Dont Starve Sequel released in 2025… then it will just being small & insignificant updates to a game that’s over stayed its welcome.

Once they finally have a fun cast of characters, then we can focus on updating the REST of the game to match them, with new weather effects, mob types, Over-Hauled Combat mechanics etc etc..

Because- Klei would have to be complete idiots to have invested as much time as they have adding an explorable ocean to DST & reworking & skill tree reworking characters- If they just planned to slowdown or discontinue support for the 10 year old game.

To put that into a much more clearer perspective Marvel's Avengers, Gotham Knights & Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League got roughly 1 year of support before the developers abandoned them.

But MEANWHILE- Destiny 2, No Mans Sky etc etc are still going strong.

It's common to run a game 10 years with continuing skin income, hard in the whole world, but there're still a lot examples. 

在有皮肤收入的情况下运营一个游戏十年是很普遍的，在世界范围内确实很困难，但仍有很多案例。

Klei didn't update all of it for free, it's unlike Stardew Valley, Minecraft or Terraia, which are also popular in China. Tencent give them money, Klei sold skins, it's a mature model in China, so that's not weird to update for 10 years in this system.

科雷并没有免费更新一切，饥荒联机版并不与星露谷物语，我的世界和泰拉瑞亚等相同，他们在中国也很火。腾讯会给他们钱，科雷也会售卖皮肤，这在中国是一种很成熟的运营模式，所以在这个体系下更新十年并不奇怪。

Players pay for updates, developers update for player, that's fair.

玩家为更新付费，开发者为玩家更新，这很合理。

[BalkanCockroach]

6 minutes ago, Lee Sy said:

Klei didn't update all of it for free, it's unlike Stardew Valley, Minecraft or Terraia.

Merch... If those games die they won't sell merch. So there is a monetary incentive.