Is wanda powerful?

[ChintzyGnat]

I dont think wanda is OP at all, more so now with rift content aswell. So I'm curious what everyone thinks.

[Brotid01]

Right now, with all the skill trees and the characters refresh, the power level/distance between the rest of survivors and wanda is way smaller so she doesn't feel that broken as before.

When she came out with the old Maxwell, the old Willow, the old Wickerbotton etc. etc. yeah back then she was too powerful and feels like a paid to win character.

Then after years the others survivor catches up with her and now of course she is still strongest but calling her Op nowadays feels like a meme a funny one of course.

[Evelo]

Really really strong. I never felt she was OP compared to Wolfgang because of her slower attack speed and lower HP to maximize damage. Teleportation is something I personally think people overvalue. It is just a time saver, nothing else. I don't value time very highly personally. So depends on who you ask really.

The biggest thing she "needs" though is a change in quotes. She is a master manipulator of time. When I think of Wanda I also think of Chromie/Chronormu from Warcraft. Except Wanda is pessimistic and always in a rush while Chromie is carefree and lax. I've always preferred chronomasters in fiction to be relaxed because they literally have all the time in the world. But that's just my opinion.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Brotid01 said:

Right now, with all the skill trees and the characters refresh, the power level/distance between the rest of survivors and wanda is way smaller so she doesn't feel that broken as before.

When she came out with the old Maxwell, the old Willow, the old Wickerbotton etc. etc. yeah back then she was too powerful and feels like a paid to win character.

Then after years the others survivor catches up with her and now of course she is still strongest but calling her Op nowadays feels like a meme a funny one of course.

People have said that but I'd still disagree considering the risks involved in fighting bosses in her old aged state even back then.

[Cruvimaster]

Wanda was one of Klei's most creative works, but that was a distant past.

At that time, Wanda was an alternative to Wolfgang, but she was never better than him.

Wolfgang then got a rework and then a skill tree. Other characters got better (Maxwell after the rework, Willow after the skill tree, Winona and Wortox now, etc.)

The planar system was more punishing for Wanda.

Wortox and Winona's teleportation are better than Wanda's. The damage is good, but at the cost of having low health (age). Other characters will be able to deal a lot of damage without any downside in their health.

Also, many characters deal damage to multiple enemies (e.g. AoE), but Wanda does not. For example: Willow's spells, Wolfgang's Dumbbells, Abigail, Wortox in the beta, Winona with catapults, Wormwood with Bramble Husk/Brambleshade Armor, Wigfrid with Elding Spear, etc.
Her skill tree should be one of the worst since she is not as popular as Wendy.

For those who still play Wanda, Wortox may be a good replacement depending on how this beta ends.

[Mike23Ua]

In addition to all the other stuff she has she also can endlessly revive other players for free with a item that’s on cooldown that doesn’t lose durability.

Comparing that to Wendy reviving other players, I have a tab for “Ecthoherbology” potions, and yet I still have to sacrifice all of my own health on telltale hearts to revive my noob friends when they die every 5 minutes.

This REALLY Adds up fast… and you experts may be quick to dismiss it but having Wanda have Free Revives on a Cooldown allows me to respawn my friends with no cost to me beyond putting the clock back on Cooldown.

Everyone says Wendy is OP but Wanda nah man that chicks Busted.

Wendy currently has a “Beta” Skill tree: Spoilers- No she still did not get anything like WANDAs Free revives on Cooldown.

Although her many Ecthoherbology potions should have likely covered that and I wouldn’t be limping around at 3 hp from having to Overly revive my friends every few minutes.

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Comparing that to Wendy reviving other players, ... , and yet I still have to sacrifice all of my own health on telltale hearts to revive my noob friends when they die every 5 minutes

Farming + Tent = No problem.

The one time I played with a friend we just made like 30 telltale hearts in one sitting after a large harvest of food. or we had meat about to go bad. Drain all HP for Telltale hearts, eat, sleep, repeat. The hardest part is getting nitre for the booster shots, not the revival part. (and yes the revive clock thingy does mitigate the booster shot which is extremely beneficial)

[Sacco]

Wait for her skill tree and she'll become busted for a second time.

[DegenerateFurry]

7 hours ago, Evelo said:

Really really strong. I never felt she was OP compared to Wolfgang because of her slower attack speed and lower HP to maximize damage. Teleportation is something I personally think people overvalue. It is just a time saver, nothing else. I don't value time very highly personally. So depends on who you ask really.

The biggest thing she "needs" though is a change in quotes. She is a master manipulator of time. When I think of Wanda I also think of Chromie/Chronormu from Warcraft. Except Wanda is pessimistic and always in a rush while Chromie is carefree and lax. I've always preferred chronomasters in fiction to be relaxed because they literally have all the time in the world. But that's just my opinion.

I feel like it's important to remember that Wanda does actually have a reason to be in a hurry: she's very rapidly aging, and not only that, but she's been being chased by Them for an unknown amount of time. Her death animation is literally Them catching her. 

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

In addition to all the other stuff she has she also can endlessly revive other players for free with a item that’s on cooldown that doesn’t lose durability.

Comparing that to Wendy reviving other players, I have a tab for “Ecthoherbology” potions, and yet I still have to sacrifice all of my own health on telltale hearts to revive my noob friends when they die every 5 minutes.

This REALLY Adds up fast… and you experts may be quick to dismiss it but having Wanda have Free Revives on a Cooldown allows me to respawn my friends with no cost to me beyond putting the clock back on Cooldown.

Everyone says Wendy is OP but Wanda nah man that chicks Busted.

Wendy currently has a “Beta” Skill tree: Spoilers- No she still did not get anything like WANDAs Free revives on Cooldown.

Although her many Ecthoherbology potions should have likely covered that and I wouldn’t be limping around at 3 hp from having to Overly revive my friends every few minutes.

People say she's busted but have they tried fighting a boss with old age Wanda? Do they even know about her decreased crafting speed when old which can lead to even worse situations while old? Do they realize how low her hp actually is when in the old aged state? Do they realize Wigfrid has a group revive skill while Wanda gets to revive only one person and it even goes on cooldown for awhile? Do they realize it breaks if she uses it on herself? Do they realize how easy life giving amulets are to make as are meat effigies? As of Wortox's skill tree his form of teleportation is simply superior and he doesn't have to wait years to establish it.

[dst_lover]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

People say she's busted but have they tried fighting a boss with old age Wanda? Do they even know about her decreased crafting speed when old which can lead to even worse situations while old? Do they realize how low her hp actually is when in the old aged state? Do they realize Wigfrid has a group revive skill while Wanda gets to revive only one person and it even goes on cooldown for awhile? Do they realize it breaks if she uses it on herself? Do they realize how easy life giving amulets are to make as are meat effigies? As of Wortox's skill tree his form of teleportation is simply superior and he doesn't have to wait years to establish it.

Yes I tried she is fine with her range she can literally take down bosses and enemies very easily 

wigfrid revive skill is so bad and more expensive I don’t even waste my time by crafting it you can only activate it once your bar is semi full so basically if one of your teammates die and he need a revive you need to fight something strong enough so the bar is full so you can revive him and if there is no boss or creature so you full up your bar this revive is useless and even then it’s not that good because you need to wait for spring to craft it and giving amulets are useful but not as cheap and reusable as Wanda revives + wortox teleport is cheap but in long term worlds I prefer Wanda teleport ability but you have to Rembrandt that wortox have worse downsides 

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

Yes I tried she is fine with her range she can literally take down bosses and enemies very easily 

Every character can take down bosses very easily Wanda is fragile unless your staying middle aged or earlier which means your dps will be worse than most combat characters.

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

wigfrid revive skill is so bad and more expensive I don’t even waste my time by crafting it you can only activate it once your bar is semi full so basically if one of your teammates die and he need a revive you need to fight something strong enough so the bar is full so you can revive him and if there is no boss or creature so you full up your bar this revive is useless and even then it’s not that good because you need to wait for spring to craft it and giving amulets are useful but not as cheap and reusable as Wanda revives + wortox teleport is cheap but in long term worlds I prefer Wanda teleport ability but you have to Rembrandt that wortox have worse downsides 

So Wanda is busted because you have infinite prep time for her teleportation network setup over multiple in game years and because you can revive 1 person every 4 minutes or break the watch to revive yourself vs Wigfrid reviving reviving an entire group just by fighting?

[dst_lover]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Every character can take down bosses very easily Wanda is fragile unless your staying middle aged or earlier which means your dps will be worse than most combat characters.

So Wanda is busted because you have infinite prep time for her teleportation network setup over multiple in game years and because you can revive 1 person every 4 minutes or break the watch to revive yourself vs Wigfrid reviving reviving an entire group just by fighting?

1 I can literally out rang most bosses 

2 yes +just with your first winter you can get 1 - 4  teleports and that is really good and the more days = more teleports + just like I said before wigfrid reviving skill is so bad it’s not even batter then life giving amulet 

[Theukon-dos]

Yes. Obviously. The fact that this is even a debate is astonishing.

 

Her damage is on-par with Wolfgang's (the 2% or whatever difference doesn't matter), her weapon's extra range trivializes a ton of fights, her healing is limited in theory; but in practice the only limitation on it is how much inventory space she has, she's supposed to be a "glass cannon"; but night armor goes upto 95% damage reduction and she has several tools at her disposal to negate damage taken, she can save boatloads of time by teleportint around the map on a whim. And has access to cheap and early-game revives that only cost a couple living logs for Wanda and only goes on cooldown for everyone else.

 

Wanda has just about everything but the kitchen sink at her fingertips. Yeah, the gap may be smaller due to recent changes. But Wanda was never and should have never become the baseline for what DST characters should be. And because Klei's giving everyone a skill tree instead of adjusting characters on a case-vy-case basis, you can bet your bums that the gap will only open back up in the coming months.

[Cats_On_Fire]

14 hours ago, Evelo said:

Really really strong. I never felt she was OP compared to Wolfgang because of her slower attack speed and lower HP to maximize damage. Teleportation is something I personally think people overvalue. It is just a time saver, nothing else. I don't value time very highly personally. So depends on who you ask really.

The biggest thing she "needs" though is a change in quotes. She is a master manipulator of time. When I think of Wanda I also think of Chromie/Chronormu from Warcraft. Except Wanda is pessimistic and always in a rush while Chromie is carefree and lax. I've always preferred chronomasters in fiction to be relaxed because they literally have all the time in the world. But that's just my opinion.

Maybe the person being hunted by literal demons would be really, really stressed

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:24 AM, Evelo said:

The biggest thing she "needs" though is a change in quotes. She is a master manipulator of time. When I think of Wanda I also think of Chromie/Chronormu from Warcraft. Except Wanda is pessimistic and always in a rush while Chromie is carefree and lax. I've always preferred chronomasters in fiction to be relaxed because they literally have all the time in the world. But that's just my opinion.

I actually like that part about Wanda, from a character design wise/psychological perspective it makes sense, when people normally are put in a situation like wanda's they tend to act like her, always seeing the worst in things just in case, wanting to save time, which is a thing that they know they have infinite of, they're still acting like the normal human that they were before they gained their powers, of coarse, they change overtime, we can already kind of see this in wanda's character, she gets bored with normal things easily, as she's seen so much of them that she doesn't care about them anymore, I don't know the character that you're talking about, but to me, it seems like he has already had a lot of time to get used to his situation and is more relaxed as he doesn't care about things that he can just reverse, which is basically everything, but in wanda's case, she's still in that process,  although she would probably act like that after a longer amount of time with her powers, I can go into a lot more detail but I don't wanna talk that much, 

tldr: it makes sense that she isn't acting like how you described yet, but she seems to be going in a direction that will eventually lead her to have the exact behavior that you described

[Cheggf]

On 11/27/2024 at 7:15 PM, Brotid01 said:

Right now, with all the skill trees and the characters refresh, the power level/distance between the rest of survivors and wanda is way smaller so she doesn't feel that broken as before.

When she came out with the old Maxwell, the old Willow, the old Wickerbotton etc. etc. yeah back then she was too powerful and feels like a paid to win character.

Then after years the others survivor catches up with her and now of course she is still strongest but calling her Op nowadays feels like a meme a funny one of course.

Wanda on release was average at best compared to the rest of the survivors and has only fallen far behind with all of the skill trees. She only has a damage bonus that's about as large as Wendy's and a teleport that only saves time on worlds that are so late in that saving time is pointless because there's nothing left to do. Not to mention how other characters have been getting so much more mobility that's so much better than hers...

On 11/28/2024 at 9:05 AM, Theukon-dos said:

Yes. Obviously. The fact that this is even a debate is astonishing.

 

Her damage is on-par with Wolfgang's (the 2% or whatever difference doesn't matter), her weapon's extra range trivializes a ton of fights, her healing is limited in theory; but in practice the only limitation on it is how much inventory space she has, she's supposed to be a "glass cannon"; but night armor goes upto 95% damage reduction and she has several tools at her disposal to negate damage taken, she can save boatloads of time by teleportint around the map on a whim. And has access to cheap and early-game revives that only cost a couple living logs for Wanda and only goes on cooldown for everyone else.

 

Wanda has just about everything but the kitchen sink at her fingertips. Yeah, the gap may be smaller due to recent changes. But Wanda was never and should have never become the baseline for what DST characters should be. And because Klei's giving everyone a skill tree instead of adjusting characters on a case-vy-case basis, you can bet your bums that the gap will only open back up in the coming months.

2%? Wolfgang's damage bonus is an entire third larger than Wanda's, not a fiftieth. 

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

On 11/28/2024 at 7:05 PM, Theukon-dos said:

Her damage is on-par with Wolfgang's (the 2% or whatever difference doesn't matter), her weapon's extra range trivializes a ton of fights, her healing is limited in theory; but in practice the only limitation on it is how much inventory space she has, she's supposed to be a "glass cannon"; but night armor goes upto 95% damage reduction and she has several tools at her disposal to negate damage taken, she can save boatloads of time by teleportint around the map on a whim. And has access to cheap and early-game revives that only cost a couple living logs for Wanda and only goes on cooldown for everyone else.

 

overall mostly true, but not fully
in actual practice, no sane person is gonna hold 12 watches, in fact, forgetting to heal/not having enough healing is never the cause of your death as wanda, the only way that you usually die as her (and this comes from at least 1k hours of playtime just as her alone) is being caught off guard, taking a single hit that will fully end you, yes, in theory, the night armor is really really good, but you're not gonna always be wearing it, an plannar stuff exist on top of that, don't even mention damage canceling since if the damage is too large, her age will tick down a lot faster and make it really hard to actually time it, and if the damage is low, it's not gonna kill you. I have a lot of hours as her and she is definitely a lot stronger than most characters if you know what you're doing, there's no denying that,  but the reasons that you mentioned don't seem right to me, but it kind of makes sense, the only way a person that can manipulate time itself can die, is to be caught off guard, which is how you die as wanda.

[Peasant]

If you can do zero damage with every boss then yes, but few can do no damage with even 6 bosses

[Y0sH]

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Wanda on release was average at best compared to the rest of the survivors and has only fallen far behind with all of the skill trees. She only has a damage bonus that's about as large as Wendy's and a teleport that only saves time on worlds that are so late in that saving time is pointless because there's nothing left to do. Not to mention how other characters have been getting so much more mobility that's so much better than hers...

2%? Wolfgang's damage bonus is an entire third larger than Wanda's, not a fiftieth. 

I hate when the teleport argument is brought up because just as you said by the time you get teleports set up for everywhere you need to go there's nothing else that needs to be done.

Also her damage only shines at a risk when Wolf literally just has a free x2.

It's time we stop acting like Wanda is just some busted OP character that just trivializes the game.

When people complain about how strong she is I think what they really want to say is how she was the Only complete DLC character that was released. Her kit compliments her character outside of maybe Planar damage and resistance she doesn't need much.

[ShadowDuelist]

If they just give her alarming clock planar damage and fix her backstep watch to be instant when you click on it, she’d be fine and well adapted to the post rifts enemies (I mean the crappy activation delay, not the cooldown. The cooldown is fine)
 

 

[Theukon-dos]

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Wanda on release was average at best compared to the rest of the survivors and has only fallen far behind with all of the skill trees. She only has a damage bonus that's about as large as Wendy's and a teleport that only saves time on worlds that are so late in that saving time is pointless because there's nothing left to do. Not to mention how other characters have been getting so much more mobility that's so much better than hers...

2%? Wolfgang's damage bonus is an entire third larger than Wanda's, not a fiftieth. 

The wiki says that the Alarming Clock's DPS at old age is only about 11% lower than Mighty Wolfgang who's using a Dark Sword. Which once again, is firmly in the position of "really doesn't matter". Especially sense the marginal difference in DPS is compensated by the clock's higher range.

 

Other than that though, I'd love to know what you're smoking if you think Wanda was "average at best". Because clearly it's been laced with enough Copium to knock out an African elephant.

 

Her DPS; as established; was on-par with Wolfgang's. Wendy getting her DPS that high requires a ton of setup and perfect conditions, including an ornary beefalo to bypass her usual damage penalty, her fight either happening at night or in the caves, and actually being able to keep Abigail alive in the first place. All of that compared to a single weapon like Wanda's DPS. She could also use her backstep watch to kite enemies more efficiently, making her comparative DPS slightly higher thanks to less time spent dodging.

Her Backtreck Watch is available as early as the first winter. Even sooner if you rush the ruins and get lucky with looted walking canes. A single one can be a massive time save in any world that gets it, and it gets even stronger the longer those worlds last. Even in a mere 200-300 day world, you can easily amass half a dozen backtreck watches, which is enough to set waypoints to just about every notable POI. Saying that it only saves time in worlds "that have lasted so long there's nothing left to do" is downright comical. Both because it's demonstrably untrue, and because it implies that nobody has ever played a world for thousands of days without getting bored. Nevermind the fact that she can use a purple gem to share her teleporter or use it to move heavy objects like the suspicious marble chunks. 

 

Her healing mechanics are more an upside than a downside sense you can amass tons of ageless watches. She was also the only character with a unique revive, and said revive was re-usable for everyone other than herself. And her shadow affinity increasing at old age meant she was the best user of shadow armor before Maxwell. And who cares about having a low HP stat when you can also get a 95% damage reduction with hardly any penelty. 

 

And if you want to talk about her at launch specifically, not only did the second chance watch not break when Wanda herself used it at the time. The Alarming Clock's extra range; as said before; was so obscenely broken that it forced Klei to rework the entire hitstun system so she couldn't stunlock half the game's enemies. And in doing so, also forced them to rework the Ancient Guardian fight, because changing the hitstun mechanics broke the only stratagy that made the AG fight tolerable without cheese. And to put bluntly, if you don't think that "Direclty lead to a boss fight being entirely reworked becuase of how strong they where" is enough to say that a character was objectively overpowered. Then I don't think you're qualified to make any judgement on character balancing.

 

 

That said, I do agree that Wanda has become significantly less impressive ever sense skill trees started rolling out. It's almost like trying to balance around the strongest characters in the game was a horrible idea and that skill trees have resulted in power creep so rampant that it would be more accurate to call it a power triatholon. Who ever could have seen that coming?

5 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

overall mostly true, but not fully
in actual practice, no sane person is gonna hold 12 watches, in fact, forgetting to heal/not having enough healing is never the cause of your death as wanda, the only way that you usually die as her (and this comes from at least 1k hours of playtime just as her alone) is being caught off guard, taking a single hit that will fully end you, yes, in theory, the night armor is really really good, but you're not gonna always be wearing it, an plannar stuff exist on top of that, don't even mention damage canceling since if the damage is too large, her age will tick down a lot faster and make it really hard to actually time it, and if the damage is low, it's not gonna kill you. I have a lot of hours as her and she is definitely a lot stronger than most characters if you know what you're doing, there's no denying that,  but the reasons that you mentioned don't seem right to me, but it kind of makes sense, the only way a person that can manipulate time itself can die, is to be caught off guard, which is how you die as wanda.

Hmm. I see your point, but consider the following: You can just not be old at all times. Young Wanda's health is on-par with Wilson and similar characters. And even middle-aged still leaves you with solid leeway. You're not at half HP until around 50 years old. And any age before that still leaves you with enough time left to take an unarmored hit from Deerclops and survive by the skin of your teeth. And even when young, the Alarming clock is still a powerful weapon that's a bit stronger than a Dark Sword. And you still have access to all her other utility watches. So it's not like you're missing out on much.

 

Sure, you CAN still be caught off-guard. But if you get stuck in a situation where even old Wanda is screwed, then chances are most characters wouldn't be able to get out of there either. So trying to single that out as a downside for her really just doesn't work.

[Guille6785]

where's the no option that doesn't say anything else

53 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Other than that though, I'd love to know what you're smoking if you think Wanda was "average at best". Because clearly it's been laced with enough Copium to knock out an African elephant.

not considering the time saved exclusively when fighting major bosses in melee combat as the biggest determining factor of a character's strength

[Mike23Ua]

If Wanda was intended to be an actual “Glass Canon” type of character- then Hell Yes she’s way too powerful!

And honestly I don’t even think Klei truly grasps the entire concept behind what being a Glass Canon even means.

Here is an excellent example of a “Glass Canon”

THIS is a Glass Canon-

THIS IS NOT…

Now let me explain that it’s not just a difference in how many health points and shields you spawn with, the guy in the bottom (who already spawns with more hp and shields) also spawns into the game world with a starting Weapon Modification.

For this to Apply to Wanda…. She would have to have Maxwell levels of health (or lower) and spawn out the portal with no age rewinding clock that gives her infinity health, AND she would have to ironically…. Race against the clock to build her ageless watch before kicking the bucket.

So as you can see here.. Glass Canon, Wanda is Not.

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wendy getting her DPS that high requires a ton of setup and perfect conditions, including an ornary beefalo to bypass her usual damage penalty, her fight either happening at night or in the caves, and actually being able to keep Abigail alive in the first place.

None of this actually imperils Wendy herself. She can resummon Abi and return her to fighting strength in about 10 seconds using ghastly experience and a cure-all.

Not only does Wanda have to worry about taking too much damage, but also healing too much. (I believe aging downwards actually stuns her?) This forces her to play closer to death than Maxwell.