[Poll] On Character Strength

[GetNerfedOn]

as always, vote freely and discuss in the comments!

[Kwaik]

Too many poll options  for sure, will limit the usefulness of any results 

[ApoIIo]

38 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

Too many poll options  for sure, will limit the usefulness of any results 

You can give multiple answers

[Edible Coal]

i mean consider this game best items are lock behind bosses, mobs that drop good loots, it naturally means that as long as ur character can hit something hard, is not gonna have a issue surviving. not to mention theres a lot of ways to enhance mobility and survivability but not so much as how much dps you can dish out without relying on your character battle perks

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Edible Coal said:

i mean consider this game best items are lock behind bosses, mobs that drop good loots, it naturally means that as long as ur character can hit something hard, is not gonna have a issue surviving. not to mention theres a lot of ways to enhance mobility and survivability but not so much as how much dps you can dish out without relying on your character battle perks

I mean.. say whatever you want to say but personally the way I see it is Winona is now eating good.

She not only has structures she can pick up and move, but she has a spotlight that is heated and can be used as both a campfire to rewarm thermal stones and a light source, to top that off… those generators can now be filled with Nightmare Fuel instead of needing to consume Nitre.. A resource that can be easily farmed from killing shadow mobs, or she can actively on occasion get for free from shadow googles.

Meanwhile- Abigail has a ghostly glow that is meant to be used as a light source, but she moves AWAY from Wendy not providing her the light she probably should??

I think Klei’s opinion of she’s too strong and doesn’t need many tweaks no longer holds any water in a Skill Tree/ReReworks character world.

[Tranoze]

Character strength is depend on their role.
For combat role: They have to perform better than Wilson when coming to killing enemies.
For production role: They have to perform better than Wilson when coming to farming resources.

How strong they are is depend on how they perform on their specific role.
Maxwell is a strong character for both combat and production role.
Wolfgang is a strong combat role.
Wormwood is a strong production role.

For current specific why I claim Wendy isnt strong, because as a combat role (she has no extra ability coming to production and farming) but her combat role only allow her to perform better than Wilson vs 1/3~1/4 of old enemies, and vs new post rift enemies? i think the only enemy she perform better than Wilson is Rictus

[Kwaik]

1 hour ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

You can give multiple answers

Sure but you have 15+ answers, and you never see polls that big for a reason 

24 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Character strength is depend on their role.
For combat role: They have to perform better than Wilson when coming to killing enemies.
For production role: They have to perform better than Wilson when coming to farming resources.

How strong they are is depend on how they perform on their specific role.
Maxwell is a strong character for both combat and production role.
Wolfgang is a strong combat role.
Wormwood is a strong production role.

For current specific why I claim Wendy isnt strong, because as a combat role (she has no extra ability coming to production and farming) but her combat role only allow her to perform better than Wilson vs 1/3~1/4 of old enemies, and vs new post rift enemies? i think the only enemy she perform better than Wilson is Rictus

Wendy's ability to aoe among the best in the game, factors into a production role. 

IMO pig farms or spider farms Wendy is S+ tier. Having a an extremely easy/infinite supply of meat/eggs/jerky/silk/pig skin is pretty legit. And she does so in a way that makes her exceptional at regular mobs. 

Wendy brings little to the table for bosses, but for regular creatures she's pretty fantastic. 

I know you're trying to make it out like Wendy is bad, but Wendy has dominated AOE in a game where up until fairly recently it was borderline non existent. 

 

You can argue about self sustaining auto mob farms, but these generally require a substantial amount of set up, and if that's your argument well then you can say every characters production is strong 

Wendy has played a unique roll as the queen of aoe. Some changes have diluted that lately (ie willow) but Wendy is still among the best and it's 100% base kit 

[Tranoze]

10 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

Sure but you have 15+ answers, and you never see polls that big for a reason 

Wendy's ability to aoe among the best in the game, factors into a production role. 

IMO pig farms or spider farms Wendy is S+ tier. Having a an extremely easy/infinite supply of meat/eggs/jerky/silk/pig skin is pretty legit. And she does so in a way that makes her exceptional at regular mobs. 

Wendy brings little to the table for bosses, but for regular creatures she's pretty fantastic. 

I know you're trying to make it out like Wendy is bad, but Wendy has dominated AOE in a game where up until fairly recently it was borderline non existent. 

pre-rework winona can already farm spider,pig,bunny the same as wendy. A normal wilson can put spider den near bunny farm for auto source of silk in farming. The reason I play wendy is to help with server lag, because she can kill any tier 3 spider den or spider queen around the map, reduce amount of spider there, not about farming spider everyday, there are much more way to farm spiders and pigs better than using wendy daily.

[Edible Coal]

11 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

 

Wendy has played a unique roll as the queen of aoe. Some changes have diluted that lately (ie willow) but Wendy is still among the best and it's 100% base kit 

is it tho? a lot of character have aoe options in their new skill skill tree ( spear dash, lunar flame, weremoose third hit , bramble husk, soul clones, moon glass rounds

[Mike23Ua]

18 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

is it tho? a lot of character have aoe options in their new skill skill tree ( spear dash, lunar flame, weremoose third hit , bramble husk, soul clones, moon glass rounds

Werebeaver tail smash, even during Willows Skill tree rework they gave Bernie perks to effectively make her “Wendy new mob blender 2.0”

Yet when it comes Wendy’s turn to get interesting fun new perks, we leave her almost basic as ever because???

[Tranoze]

30 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

IMO pig farms or spider farms Wendy is S+ tier. Having a an extremely easy/infinite supply of meat/eggs/jerky/silk/pig skin is pretty legit. And she does so in a way that makes her exceptional at regular mobs. 

IMO AFW farms or CC farms Wolfgang is S+ tier. Having a an extremely easy/infinite supply of nightmare fuel/shadow thurible/bone helm/bone armor/enlightened crown/enlightened  shards  is pretty legit. And he does so in a way that makes her exceptional at regular bosses. 

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yet when it comes Wendy’s turn to get interesting fun new perks

I only use potion playing wendy when i she first get rework like 2~3 games, after that i never touch potions again. Do you use potions as wendy?
For some reason klei make 75% of her skill tree about potions, and only give 2 new potions that are all alligement potions, without no new regular potions.
They coulda atleast give her something about potions brewing...

[GetNerfedOn]

1 hour ago, Kwaik said:

Sure but you have 15+ answers, and you never see polls that big for a reason 

My thought process is that

 - I'm taking all of the prevailing assumptions i have seen people make about character strength and letting people decide what the most appropriate one is. What I've seen occur is that while people use the most prevalent assumption and discuss from there but since there's no consensus people can use a less common definition of strength as a counterargument. So while everything is valid i simply want to see what people think fits best even if it means ignoring all the other options.

 - I am also trying to see if people share some of my own definitions of character strength.

- Also, I dont want to simply confirm people's biases by giving them the options that they want to see.

- Further, as we can observe from discussion there's tons of overlap between characters strengths rather than just one clear role they fit in; it would be nice to see what prevailing sentiment is despite said overlap.

- Ultimately while could say i am trying to reach definitions by consensus, polls like these only serve to stimulate public discussion as their results are largely unused in future discussion.

[Cheggf]

Quote

Character's raw stats (Hunger, Health, Sanity, Attack Damage)

I would have personally separated hunger, health, and sanity into one group and attack damage into another. Stats like attack damage & movement speed are useful, while the three meters are not. Bigger health & hunger pools have you go through the exact same amount of resources to maintain them, it's just you might be able to wait a little longer before you need to refill them. Hunger below 150 is a minor detriment since you can't get full benefit from one (1) dish but even that isn't very impactful. Higher sanity isn't even strictly a good thing and is at best a sidegrade. It's harder to go insane when you want to, and harder to go sane when you want to. It just makes it harder to change your sanity in general. And also, again, you're still using the same amount of resources to refill it, it's just you might be able to wait longer before you do.

[AliceMagtron]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Meanwhile- Abigail has a ghostly glow that is meant to be used as a light source, but she moves AWAY from Wendy not providing her the light she probably should??

well, try dance action and dont irritate abi.

 

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I think Klei’s opinion of she’s too strong and doesn’t need many tweaks no longer holds any water in a Skill Tree/ReReworks character world.

it never holds or how can they explain wolfgong and wurt, and for my personal opinion, winona

 

[HellHeater]

I'm a sucker for skill trees hate me all you want. Yeah, they have some bland stuff in them like Wolfgang's alignment, entirety of Wilson, and ummm... What else? Wendy doesn't count, the update isn't out. Yeah they're overpowered sure, but you're not playing wes either. The game isn't a difficulty test anyway, that's what wes is for. If you hate it, mod it™.

[arubaro]

Quote

Do you agree with the current balancing decisions of Klei for skilltrees?

Cant, they are doing a mess. From adding skill trees for the sake of it with wolfgang, from releasing such op character, maxwell, when they already planned doing skill trees, adding unbalaced perks day1, not adding harder enemies to compensate, breaking the progression with reparaible string early gear or making weak gear useless even before starting using them (glass cutters or shield of terror), adding ranged weapons in a game without enemies prepared for that... 

[Gytre]

Just now, arubaro said:

not adding harder enemies to compensate

Rifts are unfinished yet but probably will have more harder enemies, bosses and cool rewards like: Upgraded bug net, possesed fuelweaver, lunar frog ponds, more miasma, harder lunar hail, more shadows, more gestalts, more mutations, more harsher weathers and seasons, ruins with dreadstone clockworks and dreadstone statues, dreadstone pieces, hidden entrance to the new super hard caves which you can unlock with special key from boss, acid puddles, lunar daywalker, tier 2 shadow and lunar gear, more content on lunar island, activating portal in archives, ancient herald, special mutated fishes in the ocean, mutated rockjaws, gnarwails, skittersquids and monkey pirates, giant ornery chest and more the possibilities are endless.

[HellHeater]

43 minutes ago, Gytre said:

Rifts are unfinished yet but probably will have more harder enemies, bosses and cool rewards like: Upgraded bug net, possesed fuelweaver, lunar frog ponds, more miasma, harder lunar hail, more shadows, more gestalts, more mutations, more harsher weathers and seasons, ruins with dreadstone clockworks and dreadstone statues, dreadstone pieces, hidden entrance to the new super hard caves which you can unlock with special key from boss, acid puddles, lunar daywalker, tier 2 shadow and lunar gear, more content on lunar island, activating portal in archives, ancient herald, special mutated fishes in the ocean, mutated rockjaws, gnarwails, skittersquids and monkey pirates, giant ornery chest and more the possibilities are endless.

That's a lot to have "probably" before it

[Gytre]

Just now, HellHeater said:

That's a lot to have "probably" before it

I mean we don't know how much rift content klei will add.

[HellHeater]

17 minutes ago, Gytre said:

I mean we don't know how much rift content klei will add.

Well, yeah. Exactly my point.

[Evelo]

Question 3 is odd because I disagree with balancing (No) however I think they are over performing, while I believe most people think Klei's balancing might be under performing.

5 hours ago, HellHeater said:

If you hate it, mod it™.

What about non-PC players? There is only so much "If you don't like it don't use it" you can realistically do before the game isn't the same game anymore.

10 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

is it tho? a lot of character have aoe options in their new skill skill tree ( spear dash, lunar flame, weremoose third hit , bramble husk, soul clones, moon glass rounds

Sounds like Klei is removing character identity more and more. Quite sad I'd say. Homogenization of unique and different characters is a plague upon many games that are updated for a very long time.

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, Gytre said:

Rifts are unfinished yet but probably will have more harder enemies, bosses and cool rewards like: Upgraded bug net, possesed fuelweaver, lunar frog ponds, more miasma, harder lunar hail, more shadows, more gestalts, more mutations, more harsher weathers and seasons, ruins with dreadstone clockworks and dreadstone statues, dreadstone pieces, hidden entrance to the new super hard caves which you can unlock with special key from boss, acid puddles, lunar daywalker, tier 2 shadow and lunar gear, more content on lunar island, activating portal in archives, ancient herald, special mutated fishes in the ocean, mutated rockjaws, gnarwails, skittersquids and monkey pirates, giant ornery chest and more the possibilities are endless.

I just see how they keep adding weak enemies and bland weather hazzards while they add unbalanced weapons, abilities and remove downsides

[HellHeater]

51 minutes ago, Evelo said:

What about non-PC players? There is only so much "If you don't like it don't use it" you can realistically do before the game isn't the same game anymore.

Oh, yeah true. I wish klei had addressed that.

[Sapientis]

This is so fun

Love how this poll shows how many perspectives the word "power" can translate to!

In my opinion it also shows how most conflicts are just the matter of misunderstanding and semantics.

 

As a side note: having Warly rated so low is interesting, given high ratings of both Winona and Wurt. All three of them have similar need to work their power through the game, but once Warly gets his spices and Volt Goat farm, Winona her set of Catapults and all her other gadgets and Wurt builds a proper green society, they all have little to no characters that can be better at most of aspects listed in this poll.

Maybe it's because Warly has no mobility perks and his better farming is only limited to Honey Crystals.

[GetNerfedOn]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

Question 3 is odd because I disagree with balancing (No) however I think they are over performing, while I believe most people think Klei's balancing might be under performing.

It's admittedly strictly out of topic to the strength discussion

but given all this discussion was precipitated by Wendy's beta skill tree i want this simple open ended question to gauge community sentiment. i could make a poll to expound upon this in the future.

28 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

As a side note: having Warly rated so low is interesting, given high ratings of both Winona and Wurt. All three of them have similar need to work their power through the game, but once Warly gets his spices and Volt Goat farm, Winona her set of Catapults and all her other gadgets and Wurt builds a proper green society, they all have little to no characters that can be better at most of aspects listed in this poll.

Maybe it's because Warly has no mobility perks and his better farming is only limited to Honey Crystals.

It's because:

 - his exclusivity is low. While you definitely have incentive to staying as Winona and Wurt you can simply swap out of Warly once he's done cooking
 - his comfort level/skill floor is bothersome because being locked out of anything that isn't crock pot food is bothersome
 - his effort investment is high given you have to farm and secure good food sources like big meats to survive which takes lots of time and effort that other char5acters can simply spend elsewhere