I don't understand the complaints about Walter

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Totally agree, but that cockie guy continues to say "his own beefalo and they still tame another one. Insanity", "he can melee fight bosses perfectly fine", "you to tank if you wish", "skill issue ".
So what's the point of playing Walter?

It's widely accepted Woby is a bad mount outside of a few people even if she's not quite as bad as people think usually which personally I don't think Klei can fix.

As for the point of playing Walter it varies from person to person and can be thrown at any character for example what's the point of playing Wendy when she's worse than Wilson in a fair amount of boss fights etc.

[viblym]

me either

[Mysterious box]

31 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

That's correct but it ignores a very important point: all other characters (except Wes) who can't mindlessly tank have strong tools to help them with this disadvantage. Wanda has much higher damage and i-frames as well as range, Maxwell has high damage and shadow prison, Wormwood has salamanders and root armor AoE attacks... Walter either plays like a worse Wilson, or he stays away holding F with a slingshot that attacks twice as slowly as any melee weapon and has a peak damage of 51 per shot (excluding tentacles with a compliant target). Why would you choose to get punished for "sloppy play" for no advantage? My last world was on Maxwell, and I definitely had to be very prudent and always carry revival means around, but he had strong advantages to justify it. Walter doesn't.

Here's the thing in Wanda's case if you can't kite with Walter you're going to die with Wanda so this is fairly irrelevant even her I frames make kiting harder due to the super specific timing. What you gain from playing Walter well is convenience. The slingshot streamlines situations, the tent allows you more room for error in more dangerous areas much like Webber's tier 3 dens but is easier to move. Basically he sees play for the little conveniences he offers. It's also interesting you compare him to Wormwood as he's a character who was played for a similar reason pre skill tree.

[gaymime]

5 hours ago, Dwight34 said:

he's high-risk low-reward, there is no reason to play him because none of his perks benefit an experienced player. You have to be experienced to play him well, but you have to be a noob to truly benefit from most of his advantages.

not even close to a true statement. he is ideal for mid and lower-mid tier players because he is super fine-tuned to early to mid game. he is a great choice for many thousands of players and as someone who has known walter mains & watches walter mains on twitch there is a lot of grace and mobility to his particular skill-set. he mostly gets ragged on because this particular forum seems gleefully keen on wailing about how only the very best of the best fighters with their high dps are worth anything.

i'm not here to have a long convo but i really do get irked when people who don't and won't play walter complain that his set-up is nonsense or trash because it isn't focused solely on fighting. it is like someone who only plays wigfrid coming in and calling mushrooms trash that is only good as filler because they personally can't benefit from it in its non-crockpotted state. you do you and all but please don't assume that just because you can't easily play as wolfgang-but-with-a-walter-skin the character is bad or lacking

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

This is if you are bad at kiting. Thulecite crown + mag and the 4-5 times I get hit during a boss fight if I'm kiting poorly isn't enough to go insane as Walter. I'm saying if you are terrible at kiting and can't git gud.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

even that skill issue joke highlights that walters downside is eliminated 100% by being good at DST.

What I'm having a problem with is that you deny other people's playstyles of Walter, and go around boasting about how elegant your playstyle is, and of all things, you use "Skill Issue" as the justification. It isn't a DST issue. It's a moral issue.

You said, "You don't need to waste time getting a saddle, collecting beefalo food to keep beefalo obedience up or worry about a rogue rook or tentacle ending it all." But why do you think that maintaining it is "not Skill"? I support Walter + Beefalo from an objective point of view, but I don't deny your playstyle. But you came into this party and saying "They still tame another one. Insanity", "Sounds like a skill issue" and anything. I don't want to be mounted you, so I have to explain that my playstyle is not as bad as you say it is compared to your playstyle.

I don't care how much you've played as a Walter main and you are so skilled, even more, I don't want to know because I'd rather die than play multiplayer with you.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

As for the point of playing Walter it varies from person to person and can be thrown at any character for example what's the point of playing Wendy when she's worse than Wilson in a fair amount of boss fights etc.

I agree, there is a point to playing each character depending on the number of players, but first he denies first other's the point of playing Walter, and I don't even want to know what point he's making anymore, I'd rather die than play multiplayer with him.

同意します、プレイヤーの数だけ各キャラクターをプレイするポイントがあります。しかし、最初に他人のWalterをプレイするポイントを否定したのは彼ですし、私はもう彼の言っているポイントを知りたくもありません、彼とマルチプレイするなら死んだ方がマシです。

Quote

But by taming a beefalo you ignore Walter's upside. It's similar to taming an ornery beefalo as Wolfgang, means you can ignore Wolfgangs mighty meter if you want to and still be good to fight, but what's the point playing either of them anymore? Just play a different character.

 

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I agree, there are as many points as there are players. However he say my point are not Skilled, and I don't want to know his point because I'd rather die than play multiplayer with him.

I'm sorry I mean no offense but I'm not 100% on what you're saying here could you rephrase this? I want to comment on it but I'm not sure if I'm understanding you right.

[SilverSpoon]

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm sorry I mean no offense but I'm not 100% on what you're saying here could you rephrase this? I want to comment on it but I'm not sure if I'm understanding you right.

I sorry about my English, I am not a native English speaker, I will post the original Japanese text and additional edits.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

It's widely accepted Woby is a bad mount outside of a few people even if she's not quite as bad as people think usually which personally I don't think Klei can fix.

As for the point of playing Walter it varies from person to person and can be thrown at any character for example what's the point of playing Wendy when she's worse than Wilson in a fair amount of boss fights etc.

My problem with woby is how fast the speed is lost... a beef is way cheaper and safer and has constant speed. Also doesnt require to bring monster meat, just twigs, grass or twigs stew inside of the bin

[Mysterious box]

Just now, SilverSpoon said:

I am not a native English speaker, I will post the original Japanese text and additional edits.

It's okay I think I get what you meant after reading it again it was about what gasher said right? Yeah he's abit overly defensive when it comes to Walter don't worry too much about it as to an extent you do have some valid complaints about Walter.

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

My problem with woby is how fast the speed is lost... a beef is way cheaper and safer and has constant speed. Also doesnt require to bring monster meat, just twigs, grass or twigs stew inside of the bin

I agree but I feel like even fixing that won't give Woby enough of a incentive over a beefalo.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Dwight34 said:

He is if you're less than 90% health, which you will be in bossfights. Sanity is not an issue outside of boss fights for any slightly experienced player, but in boss fights it quickly becomes an issue with Walter with very few hits, and if some chaos starts to erupt, you will constantly be losing sanity if you get hit in situations where you couldn't dodge or if you're running away and don't have time to stop and heal. His sanity is only an upside in casual survival, but that's only truly good for noobs, who cannot play him successfully. It always comes back to this issue, either Walter needs to become much more friendly to noobs, or he needs a lot of mid and late-game perks to make him relevant for experienced players.

All of his upsides can be made to sound good and all, but in actual play, Walter just doesn't work as efficiently as any other character. You're better off picking Wilson in basically all instances.

The thing is he is noob friendly just below the boss level which most noobs aren't fighting.

Also he can take far more than a few hits before he goes insane remember that he takes 2x the amount of sanity damage meaning to go insane without the hat he needs to take nearly 100 damage through armor and not heal

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah its massively unnecessary to tame a beefalo when playing Walter. You don't need to waste time getting a saddle, collecting beefalo food to keep beefalo obedience up or worry about a rogue rook or tentacle ending it all.

Game knowledge or a willingness to use wobys extra space as ur backpack opens up alot of indirect advantages that Walter provides.

 "cockie guy" now now SilverSpoon, don't make this personal. My insults are to the masses not to individual people, and even that skill issue joke highlights that walters downside is eliminated 100% by being good at DST.

 I mean, sure, you could gimp yourself by playing Walter in such a way that actually takes advantage of his perks, or you could do the easy thing, tame an ornery beefalo, and just play a beefalo rider normally and be way more effective than you ever would with the slingshot. 

I'm all for alternate playstyles, but they need to actually reward the player for using something new, not just be a worse alternative. All Walter's slingshot-based combat does is waste useful resources and lower your DPS, and you're still gimping yourself if you choose not to use a beefalo or the slingshot and play normally.

Combat Wormwood is a viable alternate playstyle that does actually reward you for using it (bramble husk perk gives extra DPS, helps with crowd control; you can relatively easily mass-produce healing items that never spoil; blooming with bramble traps can clear out large crowds of mobs; you get a speed boost thanks to blooming; moonshrooms let you put enemies to sleep for basically free once you've started farming them). It's harder than playing normally, sure, but if you master it, you are actually going to be at least a little more effective than a standard Wilson, and it gives you options that other characters don't have, like keeping Klaus's deer constantly asleep with moonshroom clouds so he can't cast spells.

[Mysterious box]

16 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 I mean, sure, you could gimp yourself by playing Walter in such a way that actually takes advantage of his perks, or you could do the easy thing, tame an ornery beefalo, and just play a beefalo rider normally and be way more effective than you ever would with the slingshot. 

I'm all for alternate playstyles, but they need to actually reward the player for using something new, not just be a worse alternative. All Walter's slingshot-based combat does is waste useful resources and lower your DPS, and you're still gimping yourself if you choose not to use a beefalo or the slingshot and play normally.

Combat Wormwood is a viable alternate playstyle that does actually reward you for using it (bramble husk perk gives extra DPS, helps with crowd control; you can relatively easily mass-produce healing items that never spoil; blooming with bramble traps can clear out large crowds of mobs; you get a speed boost thanks to blooming; moonshrooms let you put enemies to sleep for basically free once you've started farming them). It's harder than playing normally, sure, but if you master it, you are actually going to be at least a little more effective than a standard Wilson, and it gives you options that other characters don't have, like keeping Klaus's deer constantly asleep with moonshroom clouds so he can't cast spells.

Beefalo is definitely the way to go but Walter's current impact is his slowdown rounds as they make a noticeable difference in boss fights

[DegenerateFurry]

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Beefalo is definitely the way to go but Walter's current impact is his slowdown rounds as they make a noticeable difference in boss fights

That's fair, but I feel you'd be better-suited using that moon rock and purple gem to craft an idol to switch to a better character instead of using them to make bosses that tend not to move around much anyway 33% slower.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, DegenerateFurry said:

That's fair, but I feel you'd be better-suited using that moon rock and purple gem to craft an idol to switch to a better character instead of using them to make bosses that tend not to move around much anyway 33% slower.

I mean the same could be said for any character though no? Like why even play wickerbottom when she's just a better crafting station for Maxwell? Why play Wormwood when Wolfgang, Wanda, and Wurt are just flat out superior combat wise? It could go on forever if we're just looking at being optimal. Also keep in mind that it makes quite a difference in the more important fights like the chess pieces, were pig, and celestial champion just to name afew.

[Edible Coal]

something to read while eating lunch, nice 

[aidankocherhans]

3 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

All Walter's slingshot-based combat does is waste useful resources

How does it waste resources? Gold rounds can be mass produced, marble isn't used for that much for most other characters, and the thulecite and nightmare fuel is just being used for a different weapon than the one you would make anyway

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean the same could be said for any character though no? Like why even play wickerbottom when she's just a better crafting station for Maxwell? 

Good question. That's something Klei should fix. I hope her skill tree does it, and honestly, I'd like to see Maxwell's ability to get the effects of her books by reading them go away.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Why play Wormwood when Wolfgang, Wanda, and Wurt are just flat out superior combat wise?

Because Wormwood has an alternate playstyle that doesn't make him objectively worse than Wilson in most cases, isn't actively detrimental to the resource balance in the early-game (lord knows how annoying it is when I'm playing on a Klei server and some Walter's eaten all the marble), and it can be kind of fun. 

I think there's a bit of confusion here, and it might be my fault for not putting things clearly enough: I'm not actually trying to argue that it's wrong to play Walter. I'm trying to argue that you're disincentivized from actually playing him the way he's meant to be played (using Woby, not a beefalo), and that he's too much weaker than the other characters. From a game balance perspective, it really isn't worth it to play Walter and use all your purple gems to make certain boss fights a bit easier when, if we look at what other characters can do with purple gems, they make much better use of them (such as Wanda being able to warp an entire server of players between shards and across the map, or Wolfgang making a gembell). 

He desperately needs to be buffed, and he'd probably also benefit from having some of his traits reconsidered, but that's less likely to actually happen.

8 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

How does it waste resources? Gold rounds can be mass produced, marble isn't used for that much for most other characters, and the thulecite and nightmare fuel is just being used for a different weapon than the one you would make anyway

Gold rounds can be mass-produced, but that's spear damage at a slower rate. 

Marble actually can be used a lot by other characters, particularly if we're talking about the first couple of seasons, and especially in public servers. Anyone who wants to do tanking will benefit massively from a marble suit, and some examples that come to mind are Wendy versus Bee Queen and Wolfgang just generally. Wanda needs marble to make more ageless watches and her Alarming Clock. Pearl's house needs ten marble. 
I've run into issues on Klei servers where Walters often hog all the marble on the map and prevent me from being able to do any of those things I mentioned, and that can be a big problem for Wanda and if you're doing Pearl's quest. 

Klei saw that Wolfgang's old mightiness system encouraged him to practically devour the base's fridge whole every day just to stay constantly mighty, so they reworked him to not be like that. Why isn't it right to criticize Walter's design for encouraging him to overuse resources others need just to do combat worse than anyone not named Wes? 

[Catuna_]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

1 hour ago, aidankocherhans said:

How does it waste resources? Gold rounds can be mass produced, marble isn't used for that much for most other characters, and the thulecite and nightmare fuel is just being used for a different weapon than the one you would make anyway

Gold rounds can be mass-produced, but that's spear damage at a slower rate. 

Marble actually can be used a lot by other characters, particularly if we're talking about the first couple of seasons, and especially in public servers. Anyone who wants to do tanking will benefit massively from a marble suit, and some examples that come to mind are Wendy versus Bee Queen and Wolfgang just generally. Wanda needs marble to make more ageless watches and her Alarming Clock. Pearl's house needs ten marble. 
I've run into issues on Klei servers where Walters often hog all the marble on the map and prevent me from being able to do any of those things I mentioned, and that can be a big problem for Wanda and if you're doing Pearl's quest. 

Klei saw that Wolfgang's old mightiness system encouraged him to practically devour the base's fridge whole every day just to stay constantly mighty, so they reworked him to not be like that. Why isn't it right to criticize Walter's design for encouraging him to overuse resources others need just to do combat worse than anyone not named Wes?

cursed rounds are pretty cheap using resources that you can get yourself and that nobody would care about you using since only wanda
ruins are a breeze as walter on woby you can just run past every threat considering that you're fast enough to be able to kite bishops (or u can use poop pellets if you really really wanna i guess)

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I think there's a bit of confusion here, and it might be my fault for not putting things clearly enough: I'm not actually trying to argue that it's wrong to play Walter. I'm trying to argue that you're disincentivized from actually playing him the way he's meant to be played (using Woby, not a beefalo), and that he's too much weaker than the other characters. From a game balance perspective, it really isn't worth it to play Walter and use all your purple gems to make certain boss fights a bit easier when, if we look at what other characters can do with purple gems, they make much better use of them (such as Wanda being able to warp an entire server of players between shards and across the map, or Wolfgang making a gembell). 

He desperately needs to be buffed, and he'd probably also benefit from having some of his traits reconsidered, but that's less likely to actually happen.

walter is weaker than the other characters because the other characters in question are maxwell, wanda and the characters with skill trees (excluding wilson) &everyone else is starting to lack behind
walter being a "good" or "bad" would have nothing to do with his slingshot and his ammo types, having a bad item doesn't make a character worse considering you could just not use it... yeah you could argue its not well designed but that's a whole other discussion is the point
he really just comes down to the amount of qol that you get from playing him as opposed to everyone else, immunity to insanity auras, sanity loss from holding wet items, extra storage, portable tent, etc. are really some things that you never think about as a major perk but at the same time just combine to make the character feel real good to play, good enough for me to prefer him over other characters
when it comes to bosses i've always found him just fine, when you're not being hit excessively you're not going to lose enough sanity to cause a problem and when you're wearing insanely high damage reduction armors you will lose a similar amount of/less sanity than a character affected by insanity auras.
is he weak compared to the new character standard of power? yeah
is he a weak in a vacuum/does he feel bad to play? absolutely not imo
is comparing him to wes reasonable? no lol, wes's constant 0.75x damage modifier and lower efficiency while using tools makes him take the cake for the absolute worst character
i've beaten every boss as walter solo, and while you would need extra consistency for long fights like dragonfly; i disagree with the notion that he's bad/unusable or anything of the sort against a boss, and night armor/thulecite armor is always on the table for extremely high damage reduction at a cheap/reasonable price (respectively)
that being said i'd really hate it if klei were to rework things about him, because i think that his core design is just fine. i am not opposed to buffing his slingshot or woby's speed but i don't think anything else should be changed, his sanity and the way it works should stay how it is right now (unless klei want to bring back walter not losing sanity from shadow gear but that's never happening)
 

[Tranoze]

My problem with walter:
When fighting bosses, fighting mele is much more efficient than using ranged, except for fighting in a team to gang on boss where walter can do different type of rounds.
So let say there a tree guard for example, if i want to kill it, either i make a cheap spear and kill it within 1 mins, or craft 200 bullets for 1 mins, shoot it for 2 mins.
If i pick the spear route, why would i pick walter, wilson will do that better.

To kill any bosses with ranged mode, you will need hundreds of bullets that you crafted for a long times.
To kill any bosses with mele mode, I'd rather use other characters.

My problem with woby:
Free 9 inventory slots is good.
Pay monster meat regularly.
Cant tank attack for you.
In-consistant move speed.

But compare to beefalo on walter:
You still get free 9 inventory slots because woby still follow you.
Pay twigs up front in 20 days of taming, then you dont need to pay anything to ride rider beef.
Can tank attack for you.
Good move speed, depend on saddles.

55 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

i've beaten every boss as walter solo
 

In term of %, how many of them you beat mele and how many of them you stand from afar and split on them?

[Catuna_]

7 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

In term of %, how many of them you beat mele and how many of them you stand from afar and split on them?

all of them on melee
i have done something like fuelweaver with slingshot (on a test world) but i dont think its practical even though it was very safe outside of me messing up for no reason, you can easily do this no-hit lol
phase 3 cc is also easier with the slingshot, you can cheese klaus on a boat etc.

[Dwight34]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

walter is weaker than the other characters because the other characters in question are maxwell, wanda and the characters with skill trees (excluding wilson) &everyone else is starting to lack behind

Wilson IS stronger than Walter. He has more health, more hunger, and doesn't lose sanity when he gets hit. Walter is a worse character than all others at melee combat, but his only alternative, the slingshot, is an extremely poor option that doesn't even have an option for planar damage yet. And as some have pointed out in previous threads, it's really dumb and slows him even further that he needs prototyping for all his ammo.

What is a real, actual benefit of playing Walter in a real game? His perks sound nice when you write them, but they are non-existent in an actual run. You end up just playing a gimped Wilson with an infinite boomerang for birds and rabbits. He is one of the most unpopular and most criticized characters for a reason, he had big design flaws from the start and they haven't been corrected to this day, though I have faith in Klei, that they'll fix all those issues.

6 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I'm all for alternate playstyles, but they need to actually reward the player for using something new, not just be a worse alternative. All Walter's slingshot-based combat does is waste useful resources and lower your DPS, and you're still gimping yourself if you choose not to use a beefalo or the slingshot and play normally.

Combat Wormwood is a viable alternate playstyle that does actually reward you for using it (bramble husk perk gives extra DPS, helps with crowd control; you can relatively easily mass-produce healing items that never spoil; blooming with bramble traps can clear out large crowds of mobs; you get a speed boost thanks to blooming; moonshrooms let you put enemies to sleep for basically free once you've started farming them). It's harder than playing normally, sure, but if you master it, you are actually going to be at least a little more effective than a standard Wilson, and it gives you options that other characters don't have, like keeping Klaus's deer constantly asleep with moonshroom clouds so he can't cast spells.

This. And in most of my runs I do actually have the alternate playstyle of using honey poultice much more than pierogis because I like the fact it doesn't spoil. It's not meta but it has its own advantages. Walter as you say doesn't have that kind of advantage.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

walter is weaker than the other characters because the other characters in question are maxwell, wanda and the characters with skill trees (excluding wilson) &everyone else is starting to lack behind

I'm not comparing him only to Wanda, Wolfgang and Maxwell, or even just to characters with skill trees (although I did compare him to Woodie, who's pretty standard in strength level). Even compared to Warly, Walter just doesn't have much going for him. 

[Catuna_]

12 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

What is a real, actual benefit of playing Walter in a real game? His perks sound nice when you write them, but they are non-existent in an actual run. You end up just playing a gimped Wilson with an infinite boomerang for birds and rabbits. He is one of the most unpopular and most criticized characters for a reason, he had big design flaws from the start and they haven't been corrected to this day, though I have faith in Klei, that they'll fix all those issues.

have you played walter before? u dont really get to type that if you havent
woby's storage + chester + the new horn item from the rabbit king has left the backpack economy in shambles lol
i only go insane when i want to pretty much
i kill one or two nightmare creatures and i'm sane for as long as i want
i can essentially summon morsels to make bacon & eggs with out of will with the slingshot

13 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

Wilson IS stronger than Walter. He has more health, more hunger, and doesn't lose sanity when he gets hit. Walter is a worse character than all others at melee combat, but his only alternative, the slingshot, is an extremely poor option that doesn't even have an option for planar damage yet. And as some have pointed out in previous threads, it's really dumb and slows him even further that he needs prototyping for all his ammo.

im excluding wilson because wilson's skill tree isn't very powerful, he's not really inline with the typical power level skill tree chars get, i wasn't comparing him to walter
wilson isnt better than walter anyway, base health and hunger doesn't matter considering you'd still be healing and eating the same amount while playing (if you're missing 40 health you're gonna heal 40 health and both need 75 hunger per day)
wilson's transmutes, while they offer a nice bit of qol, are not very good in general and especially his gem sub-tree that's just not good exchange-rate wise
skipping the moonstone event is cool and all but its not impressive considering i want ruins loot for celestial champion anyway...
meat -> 2 morsels is cool but walter also snipes birds whenever he feels like it
nitre -> gold is cool but going to the ruins once gets me more gold than i'll ever use in a lifetime
walter gets to suffer no insanity loss and ends up losing overall less sanity than wilson would in my experience, there is no reason to expect walter to be getting hit repeatedly into insanity range, and he's overall a better character at combat
"Walter is higher risk than any other character at melee combat" is such an over-exaggerated statement, like yeah, technically... but you're not gonna be fighting armorless for like 4-5 stray hits to matter, especially when armor like night armor is dirt cheap, a thulecite crown/suit or night armor or even brightshade/football helmet (armors people already wear) keep walter's sanity from quickly draining
just play melee or use the new gloomerang or howlitzer for ranged (and ranged planar), the slingshot is bad yes but a bad item doesn't mean a bad character... you can ignore bad aspects of a character... wendy's bad potions don't make her worse they just don't add anything, same for warly's doodoo dishes etc.

18 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I'm not comparing him only to Wanda, Wolfgang and Maxwell, or even just to characters with skill trees (although I did compare him to Woodie, who's pretty standard in strength level). Even compared to Warly, Walter just doesn't have much going for him. 

warly has so much more against him than walter does and his only upside is being a conditional dollar store wolfgang, by the time spring rolls around for Warly to kill bee queen I would have already had beaten her by autumn as Walter if I wanted to because it's a very safe (albeit) long fight with the slingshot, i dont like warly very much you can tell so i may be biased but at the same time warly barely has anything going for him even compared to walter who doesn't have any of the BS food restrictions
 

[Dwight34]

5 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

have you played walter before? u dont really get to type that if you havent

I have, and that simply confirmed everything. Walter is objectively weak and full of design flaws, it's a fact, and I have pointed those out many time already. Hyping up woby when chester offers the same benefits and you'll never need the both of them doesn't change that.

7 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

keep walter's sanity from quickly draining

Ooooor, you could just play Wilson and only care about health, not sanity. There is no reason to bother with Walter's downside for no real upside. Walter is a bad deal.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

warly has so much more against him than walter does and his only upside is being a conditional dollar store wolfgang, by the time spring rolls around for Warly to kill bee queen I would have already had beaten her by autumn as Walter if I wanted to because it's a very safe (albeit) long fight with the slingshot, i dont like warly very much you can tell so i may be biased but at the same time warly barely has anything going for him even compared to walter who doesn't have any of the BS food restrictions

Oh, sorry, I forgot that Wolfgang can choose to entirely turn off being wet.
And freezing in winter.
And overheating in summer.
And give himself two full days of passive hands-free light without sacrificing any equipment slots.
And make his work twice as efficient for a couple honey.
And give himself damage resistance and a boost to damage that stack with other sources.

You know all that stuff people said earlier about Woby making it so you don't need a backpack and can use clothes or armor? Warly makes it so you don't need a miner hat/lantern/torch, thermal stone, eyebrella, or any season-specific gear. Forget the days of having to care about wetness when fighting during rain, about having to worry about anything but wildfires during summer, or needing to stop to torch a tree for 30 seconds every five minutes in winter - the right dishes let Warly just straight-up ignore it all. 

Also, if you actually do the math, Warly in rain outdamages Mighty Wolfgang with Volt Goat Chaud-Froid alone versus wet enemies, and it only gets higher if you add chili powder. Volt Goat Chaud-Froid is 1.5x normally against dry enemies (1.8x, just shy of Wolfgang, if you add chili powder) and 2.5x (or 3x with chili powder) against wet enemies. 

That's completely ignoring the absurdity of giving a Wolfgang spicy Volt Goat Chaud-Froid, which Warly can do because he's a supportpilled sharemaxxing gigachad with basically all of his abilities. 

Warly isn't "a conditional dollar store Wolfgang". Wolfgang's the easy mode character while, if you put in the effort, Warly lets you surpass even Wolfgang's damage output while also being able to work faster, survive every season, and handle darkness better than most characters.

Literally the only thing holding Warly back from being among the strongest characters by himself (because he's S+ tier as part of a team thanks to buffing his teammates) is the low drop rate of volt goat horns.