Lurking Nightmares are incredibly overtuned.

[lowercase skye]

Please reconsider the placement of Lurking Nightmares as pre-rift mobs, or tune them more appropriately. Currently, Lurking Nightmares:

- Can spawn from fissures/nightmare lights pre-rift, potentially in double-digit numbers in the ruins itself.
- Do a whopping 50 damage.
- Jump forward while attacking.
- Have a second attack that triggers whenever they get hit, giving you what feels like half a second to react, and will seemingly always hit you if you try to dodge diagonally rather than perfectly straight away.
- Said second attack is basically unavoidable at high ping, since you don't have a chance to react.

As a rift mob, this sounds fine, it's very in line with stuff like Ickers or Ink Blights that will make your life hell once you've hit the proper point in progression. The issue is that they now spawn before rifts are open too, making the ruins far far more dangerous without any of the extra rewards that would make it worth it post-rifts. I'd recently gotten pretty good at getting the ruins taken care of early, but having to work around the presence of Lurking Nightmares makes it feel incredibly unreasonable, as there's no longer the option of cautiously working your way through the nightmare phase while fighting one or two stray Nightmares at a time: instead you have to turtle in a corner and slowly watch the color filters change, as having to engage in combat with even a single Lurking Nightmare can be incredibly deadly, while two or more is just a complete death sentence. Please put them back to being post-rifts, or tune them down much further before rifts are open.

[arubaro]

They are easier than terrorbeaks and when you hit them they teleport toooo far away

[dst_lover]

1 hour ago, finn from human said:

Please reconsider the placement of Lurking Nightmares as pre-rift mobs, or tune them more appropriately. Currently, Lurking Nightmares:

- Can spawn from fissures/nightmare lights pre-rift, potentially in double-digit numbers in the ruins itself.
- Do a whopping 50 damage.
- Jump forward while attacking.
- Have a second attack that triggers whenever they get hit, giving you what feels like half a second to react, and will seemingly always hit you if you try to dodge diagonally rather than perfectly straight away.
- Said second attack is basically unavoidable at high ping, since you don't have a chance to react.

As a rift mob, this sounds fine, it's very in line with stuff like Ickers or Ink Blights that will make your life hell once you've hit the proper point in progression. The issue is that they now spawn before rifts are open too, making the ruins far far more dangerous without any of the extra rewards that would make it worth it post-rifts. I'd recently gotten pretty good at getting the ruins taken care of early, but having to work around the presence of Lurking Nightmares makes it feel incredibly unreasonable, as there's no longer the option of cautiously working your way through the nightmare phase while fighting one or two stray Nightmares at a time: instead you have to turtle in a corner and slowly watch the color filters change, as having to engage in combat with even a single Lurking Nightmare can be incredibly deadly, while two or more is just a complete death sentence. Please put them back to being post-rifts, or tune them down much further before rifts are open.

I think they are fine because a lot of characters got their skill trees and become more powerful and they only spawn if the ruins are opened 

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, finn from human said:

making the ruins far far more dangerous without any of the extra rewards that would make it worth it post-rifts.

Didn't Lurking Nightmare drop additional Pure Horror after the rift?

However, the Lurking Nightmare's horn attack is extremely difficult to avoid without additional movement speed so ggwiki states that "Defeat Lurking Nightmares mixed with large groups of other Nightmare Creatures is almost impossible for a single player.''
I think maximum number of Lurking Nightmare can appear at the same time should set to one in pre rift.

[arubaro]

49 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Defeat Lurking Nightmares mixed with large groups of other Nightmare Creatures is almost impossible for a single player.''

that is just a lie

1 hour ago, dst_lover said:

I think they are fine because a lot of characters got their skill trees and become more powerful and they only spawn if the ruins are opened 

not only that but we are getting new stuff like the BS staff and gloomerang which makes fighting multiple shadows way easier and prerift we just got the imba skill tree perks

[SilverSpoon]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

that is just a lie

Please stop stalking and harassing me.

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Please stop stalking and harassing me.

If you comment in every topic i read and you say stuff i disagree with dont be paranoid about you getting replies.

Are you okey? I dont care about who says what. You arent important neither the focus of any conspiracy against your persona orchestrated by me

2 hours ago, finn from human said:

Jump forward while attacking.

That only happens during rifts so is more than fair and not that hard to kite.

The wave is easy to evade without extra speed. We just need to get use to it

 

The player is getting a lot of tools, perks and power creep in general. Ruins are the place with the best loot pre-rift so i see logical and needed to spice things up to match how easy are getting by using the previous mentioned buffs to the player.

These shadows, while fun and challenging, dont even match the power creep of all these years. Is more than a fair trade off

[Sacco]

just get used to it.

At first i thought ickers were too annoying and the worm fight was not fair.

Most of the time i wait before talking about the problems of something that just got added, just because i don't know how to interact with it.

Yesterday i did a ruins clearing post rift, i had a not maxed shadow maul, void cowl and a bone armor, and i have to say, it was pretty easy, even with lurking nightmares.

They, alone are easy to kill, in group obviously become harder, but it's the same for every shadow creature

[ADM]

I agree the wave attack is a bit problematic in the events of a slow connection or really just the average delay when playing on someone’s else server. My friends tend to avoid landing those hits before shadow creatures attack because sometimes you'll just get attacked anyway if you aren’t hosting. So while it's possible to avoid triggering the wave attack, it isn’t something every players will be in capacity of doing, thus making the fight longer, and harder because lingering it increases the risk of getting crowded by more shadows in the ruins.

I don’t know a solution that could work without making the combat just purely simpler for everyone. But one tweak I could see envisaged is slowing the speed of the waves rejoining pre-rift, or spawn them further away. So if you can’t avoid the attack from happening then the drawback of having it trigger twice often wouldn’t so much of a big deal. And post-rift the better equipments available probably helps out lagging players enough for this to no longer be a problem even if they are stronger.

[Echsrick]

5 hours ago, arubaro said:

They are easier than terrorbeaks and when you hit them they teleport toooo far away

that is just a lie

[00petar00]

17 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

that is just a lie

That is common occurrence, he is taking it to the extreme with wanting the game to be more difficult and willing to do whatever it takes.

Lurking nightmare has 850 HP, 50 damage (+20 planar when rift is on), impossible to dodge attack with higher ping, can knock you off the beefalo.

Crawling horror has 300 HP, 20 damage and slow attack speed, Terrorbeak has 400 HP and 50 damage.

[splorange]

I also agree that they are overtuned but I like the threat they bring to the game, they are very strong and having them appear spices things up and turns almost any situation into a deadly one

However, I do think the retaliation spike attack is a bit too frustrating to fight against and is near impossible to dodge consistently on high ping. This could probably solved if the attack is more telegraphed.

[grm9]

i wish dodging the horn attack was hard instead of a reaction time check

[arubaro]

26 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

that is just a lie

 

9 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That is common occurrence, he is taking it to the extreme with wanting the game to be more difficult and willing to do whatever it takes.

Lurking nightmare has 850 HP, 50 damage (+20 planar when rift is on), impossible to dodge attack with higher ping, can knock you off the beefalo.

Crawling horror has 300 HP, 20 damage and slow attack speed, Terrorbeak has 400 HP and 50 damage.

they are slow and let you plenty of time to recover while terrorbeaks dont let you scape unless you have a lot of speed

im willing to counter your feedback to make the game feel like stardew valley or an afk clicker game

[Maxil20]

10 hours ago, finn from human said:

- Have a second attack that triggers whenever they get hit, giving you what feels like half a second to react, and will seemingly always hit you if you try to dodge diagonally rather than perfectly straight away.
- Said second attack is basically unavoidable at high ping, since you don't have a chance to react.

This is the part I do agree with. This is a really hard to react attack from my experience, and I’m playing on a local server with a modified tickrate to make my actions faster to respond to. I basically have a 50% dodge rate and Eat the other 50% of the attacks with bone armor (which, well, isn’t exactly realistic to have early on….)

I personally think the attack should keep the second attack, but add more windup to said attack (perhaps with them moving very slow initially and then speeding up). It should at least have ~half-a second more of windup to make it more realistic for most players to dodge it, while still being dangerous. It would also be preferable to have a minor cooldown of 5 seconds or so between attacks, compared to having a chance to occur every teleport.

As for the mob itself, I actually do kinda like how challenging the lurking nightmare is. For reference, lurking nightmares in the code have a weight to specifically make them lower to appear than crawling horrrors/terrorbeaks (which is even lower if you don’t have a rift open!) so you shouldn’t be seeing more than ~2 unless you are in an area with multiple nightmare lights. The sound cue being extremely noticeable also helps with this. You’re going to know when one of these spawn to let you know there’s going to be a difficult opponent nearby. I like the challenge it has, especially in an area like the ruins. My only gripes is the second attack it has, which doesn’t feel realistic to dodge and especially not pre rift, and the move while lunging being pre rift (I feel that should, personally, be post rift).

Epic Ninja stealth edit with some info @Electroelyclarified for me about lurking nightmares:

It turns out that they instead replace nightmarebeaks when spawning from nightmare lights with their chance roll, and that gets higher post rift. As nightmarebeaks have a 35% chance to spawn (crawlers have 65%, for comparison), and the chance for lurking nightmares to replace them pre rift is 40% and goes up to 90% post rift, there’s a 14% chance for one to spawn pre rift, and a 31.5% post rift. This still makes them considerably more uncommon than the other nightmares, but I do find it interesting it outright replaces nightmarebeak chances and doesn’t touch the crawling one (though, I do feel that is a good thing).

 

[Electroely]

I think the main issue with the Lurking Horrors is their counter-attack. It gives you very little time to react when you account for movement speed and ping and deals a very punishing amount of damage.

I think they're fine enough when rifts are open - they're challenging, and their boosted stats make them a big threat even with powerful end-game gear. Their red highlights let you see the counter-attack coming from the darkness and the resource loss from being hit isn't as bad that late into the game.

My main gripe with them is before the rift is open. While they don't lunge when attacking, their counterattack is WORSE than when the rifts are open. You can't see it coming unless you have night vision or a very large light source. It's nigh impossible to dodge and taking an entire 50 damage every time just makes it practically impossible to do anything in the ruins while the nightmare cycle is at its peak (and it was already bad enough when you got 3+ Terrorbeaks after you.) At that point, the ideal play is to just run away and wait for the nightmare phase to end, and that's no fun. I hope their counterattack can be significantly toned down before rifts are open.

[arubaro]

11 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I think the main issue with the Lurking Horrors is their counter-attack. It gives you very little time to react when you account for movement speed and ping and deals a very punishing amount of damage.

I think they're fine enough when rifts are open - they're challenging, and their boosted stats make them a big threat even with powerful end-game gear. Their red highlights let you see the counter-attack coming from the darkness and the resource loss from being hit isn't as bad that late into the game.

My main gripe with them is before the rift is open. While they don't lunge when attacking, their counterattack is WORSE than when the rifts are open. You can't see it coming unless you have night vision or a very large light source. It's nigh impossible to dodge and taking an entire 50 damage every time just makes it practically impossible to do anything in the ruins while the nightmare cycle is at its peak (and it was already bad enough when you got 3+ Terrorbeaks after you.) At that point, the ideal play is to just run away and wait for the nightmare phase to end, and that's no fun. I hope their counterattack can be significantly toned down before rifts are open.

but you dont need to really see it since you know that, after attacking them, you need to move so you can start moving in the right moment they received your hit

i think is a "getting used" scenario

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

but you dont need to really see it since you know that, after attacking them, you need to move so you can start moving in the right moment they received your hit

and simply walk into 1 of their horn things 1/4 of the time?

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

and simply walk into 1 of their horn things 1/4 of the time?

if you have ping to have such bad reaction time...

[grm9]

Just now, arubaro said:

if you have ping to have such bad reaction time...

what was the point of starting walking considering that if you can move away on reaction even after walking to where the thing'll spawn at, you can also just move away on reaction from where you hit the nightmare?

[arubaro]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what was the point of starting walking considering that if you can move away on reaction even after walking to where the thing'll spawn at, you can also just move away on reaction from where you hit the nightmare?

my point was not being holding F when you already hit them because most of the times i got hit was because im not used to quickly needing to move after i hit a shadow. I just started to hit once and move so i was prepare to evade the wave which is so easy for the rifts version because you see it from far away and the regular version is slow 

edit. for that i said "getting used" to the enemy

[00petar00]

44 minutes ago, arubaro said:

im willing to counter your feedback to make the game feel like stardew valley or an afk clicker game

You are not countering anything when you are incorrect. Based on pure numbers without someone even knowing anything about DST and they would know that terrorbeak is easier to kill.

It is getting very hard to believe that you are speaking the truth and not just saying anything to make an argument against something you don't like because you want the game to be more difficult. Your ideas really seem out there and no one else comes even close to suggesting anything similar on the forums even people that want game to be more difficult don't go as far as to say that ink blights should spawn on top of the player.

[arubaro]

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You are not countering anything when you are incorrect. Based on pure numbers without someone even knowing anything about DST and they would know that terrorbeak is easier to kill.

according to numbers, toad is the hardest boss, way more than fuelweaver. Is a new mob, ofc it feels hard

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is getting very hard to believe that you are speaking the truth and not just saying anything to make an argument against something you don't like because you want the game to be more difficult. Your ideas really seem out there and no one else comes even close to suggesting anything similar on the forums even people that want game to be more difficult don't go as far as to say that ink blights should spawn on top of the player.

maybe because there are a lot of people who enjoy optional encouters so they can feel winners but only when they are overprepared to face them or find a way to exploit something to stay afk watching

there are like 5 very active topics talking about balancing a strong and confortable source of healing but just a couple abandoned topics talking about how bland and easy are mimics. Same happens with other content pieces, 4438534 topics of people crying because they dont want to learn how to beat FW or BQ but 0 about how stupid are chess pieces or moon rock event. Nah, you see only feedback to make the game easier and easier despite having most content aimed to make it easier with character refresh, skill trees, new items, new recipes...and sometimes is from people with thousands of hours in this game. If i want a cozy game i play stardew valley or animal crossing which are better for that

i want the game to be more difficult but if i find something hard or that, imo, is unfair i wont go against feedback that supports changes but usually is just lazy people wanting dopamine effortless

17 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

be more difficult don't go as far as to say that ink blights should spawn on top of the player.

ye because better having the 435934753th optional piece of content than updating what stuff hunts the player. The characters got 4397349 new stuff while sanity are still 2 mobs that now we barelly see because of CC crown and easier than ever access to sanity dishes

but dont surprise you are against anything of that

[SilverSpoon]

Arubaro rejected the suggestion that "if you will constructive discussion you stop being unnecessarily rude".
At this point, Arubaro is just saying random things for trolling around, so just report him and leave him alone.

[Ridley]

53 minutes ago, grm9 said:

and simply walk into 1 of their horn things 1/4 of the time?

This was my experience until I just started avoiding them