sirnumbskull Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 I just want to know if the new athletics debuffs (chilly/hot) surroundings are supposed to be affecting starting colonies on Terra like they are currently It's almost inevitable that dupes will have to enter the 23C water at some point, and having them take a massive -5 penalty to athletics with no counters until reed fibers or space heaters, with the idea of thermal transfer (not the default thermal overlay menu) being what needs monitoring seems like a pretty big change to starting asteroid survivability. Can I get confirmation on whether this is working as intended? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 Should be working as intended, it was discussed here long enough and often enough. Fixes: Frost Resistance, thicker clothing and athletics high enough that -5 does not make a lot of difference. Note: I am answering because the devs do read here but do basically not post. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1737195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPBacon000 Posted July 23, 2024 Share Posted July 23, 2024 I feel like the issue is how little TIME it takes to acquire the debuff. It feels like the moment a dupe is exposed to even sort of cool temperatures, they get "chilly", when it maybe should be time dependent. Long exposure to cool temps means chilly surrounding, short exposure to VERY cold temps means chilly surroundings, but short exposure to cool temp doesn't do anything immediately? Seems a fair compromise, like the dupes internal temp should drive the debuff, not JUST the environment temp and thermal conductivity? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1737214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnumbskull Posted July 24, 2024 Author Share Posted July 24, 2024 23 hours ago, ChrisPBacon000 said: I feel like the issue is how little TIME it takes to acquire the debuff. It feels like the moment a dupe is exposed to even sort of cool temperatures, they get "chilly", when it maybe should be time dependent. Long exposure to cool temps means chilly surrounding, short exposure to VERY cold temps means chilly surroundings, but short exposure to cool temp doesn't do anything immediately? Seems a fair compromise, like the dupes internal temp should drive the debuff, not JUST the environment temp and thermal conductivity? Yeah, the fact that they get the penalty immediately upon entering relatively temperate water is kind of silly. I think the devs just shortcut the calculation by assuming that dupe internal temp would bottom out if they continued to stay at that level of heat loss, forgetting that they'd eventually achieve homeostasis when their body temp hit the liquid temp, which is still within their tolerance. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1737418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPBacon000 Posted July 25, 2024 Share Posted July 25, 2024 On 7/23/2024 at 6:47 PM, sirnumbskull said: Yeah, the fact that they get the penalty immediately upon entering relatively temperate water is kind of silly. I think the devs just shortcut the calculation by assuming that dupe internal temp would bottom out if they continued to stay at that level of heat loss, forgetting that they'd eventually achieve homeostasis when their body temp hit the liquid temp, which is still within their tolerance. That sounds like a really reasonable assumption. A yes or no check, so a certain DTU/sec energy loss instantly causes chilly surroundings. I hope a change so the debuff check looks at body temp instead of instantaneous heat loss could be implemented. Or at least confirmation about the details and the intended behavior? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1737595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 28, 2024 Share Posted July 28, 2024 You can also clear the wet feet debuff with a shower. In a regular terra run, you can have showers by the 5th or 8th cycle, depending on how you play. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queron81 Posted July 28, 2024 Share Posted July 28, 2024 Is it intended that the duplicants get "Chilly surroundings" when they just walk through hydrogen at a temperature around 23°C? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted July 28, 2024 Share Posted July 28, 2024 7 hours ago, Queron81 said: Is it intended that the duplicants get "Chilly surroundings" when they just walk through hydrogen at a temperature around 23°C? Seems it is based on how fast they can get cold/hot. It wasn`t uncommon before that dupes would get hypothermia in hydrogen at that tempareature if they stayed in it long enough. Same with water that isn`t exactly cold but below the dupe`s temperature. Basically if it transfers heat fast enough away or to the dupe he will get a debuff. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queron81 Posted July 28, 2024 Share Posted July 28, 2024 11 hours ago, Sasza22 said: Seems it is based on how fast they can get cold/hot. It wasn`t uncommon before that dupes would get hypothermia in hydrogen at that tempareature if they stayed in it long enough. Same with water that isn`t exactly cold but below the dupe`s temperature. Basically if it transfers heat fast enough away or to the dupe he will get a debuff. They are just touching it and then walking in slow-mo. I have a Plug Slug farm in the corner of my base and didn't get rid of the hydrogen yet. This was never a problem before the update. It was very hard to figure out that the hydrogen is causing the chilly surroundings. I was like "Am I crazy? There is nothing cold around the base.". There is no information about it in the game. I can understand that fluids are feeling colder at 23°C, but gases? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPBacon000 Posted July 29, 2024 Share Posted July 29, 2024 3 hours ago, Queron81 said: They are just touching it and then walking in slow-mo. I have a Plug Slug farm in the corner of my base and didn't get rid of the hydrogen yet. This was never a problem before the update. It was very hard to figure out that the hydrogen is causing the chilly surroundings. I was like "Am I crazy? There is nothing cold around the base.". There is no information about it in the game. I can understand that fluids are feeling colder at 23°C, but gases? Hydrogen's thermal conductivity is double that of oxygen. So at the moment, equal temp gases you'll find dupes lose heat faster in hydrogen vs oxygen. The threshold heat loss to trigger the debuff appears to be pretty low. As in, not much heat loss is needed to cause the debuff. So oddities like room temp or even warm water cause chilly surroundings, unless you wear a warm coat. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
qlyphoath Posted July 29, 2024 Share Posted July 29, 2024 In my opinion, the changes to this mechanic are RIDICULOUS. My dupes are in 30+º C temps in oxygen-filled bedrooms and keep getting woken up by Chilly Surroundings. THEY NEVER SLEEP. Something is wrong. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakemw Posted July 29, 2024 Share Posted July 29, 2024 4 hours ago, qlyphoath said: My dupes are in 30+º C temps in oxygen-filled bedrooms and keep getting woken up by Chilly Surroundings. THEY NEVER SLEEP. Something is wrong. That does not happen for me. My dupes are perfectly happy sleeping in 20 C bedrooms. If that's really happening and you aren't exaggerating and don't have not just oxygen (water on the floor or something) you probably need to make a bug report. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPBacon000 Posted July 29, 2024 Share Posted July 29, 2024 11 hours ago, qlyphoath said: In my opinion, the changes to this mechanic are RIDICULOUS. My dupes are in 30+º C temps in oxygen-filled bedrooms and keep getting woken up by Chilly Surroundings. THEY NEVER SLEEP. Something is wrong. Yeah this seems extreme. Can you add in a screenshot? For moderate conditions it appears to be liquids that are responsible for the rapid heat loss leading to the debuff. But gases have such low conductivity that I've only ever seen hydrogen cause a problem outside very cold conditions. What is unclear is whether heat loss rate alone should determine the debuff. I think body temp should be the variable, so short exposure to cool conditions wouldn't instantly apply the debuff. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 1, 2024 Share Posted August 1, 2024 On 7/27/2024 at 8:56 PM, Queron81 said: Is it intended that the duplicants get "Chilly surroundings" when they just walk through hydrogen at a temperature around 23°C? Hydrogen has a very high thermal conductivity compared to other gasses. Even prior to this build, I could give my dupes hypothermia from walking through hydrogen around 12C. In this particular case, I had a slug farm generating hydrogen from metal coming in from near the surface. The hydrogen went up through vented floors into a drekko room for optimal scale growth, where a shearing station was kept. The dupe would go in and shave a bunch of drekkos and would come out with hypothermia. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted August 3, 2024 Share Posted August 3, 2024 I remember a patch where they increased the thermal exchange between the floor and dupes/critters. It caused them to get hypothermia in 21C starting areas and critters to die from cold. I guess this might be a similar issue here. They just need to tone down the heat transfer a notch and it will be fine. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1738952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenedas Posted August 4, 2024 Share Posted August 4, 2024 came here to add evidence on this post of other strange behaviours. I am opening a bug honestly. Can't image some behavior of this new mechanics are correct. I got a dupe almost killed by 23g of hot Oxygen to get some naphta. It's like being killed by a fart Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakemw Posted August 4, 2024 Share Posted August 4, 2024 38 minutes ago, Tenedas said: I am opening a bug honestly. Can't image some behavior of this new mechanics are correct. I got a dupe almost killed by 23g of hot Oxygen to get some naphta. It's like being killed by a fart It has been like that forever. Not to say that I agree with it, it has always been annoying when a dupe gets scalded by even mcg grams of gas. But it's not a new game mechanic with Frosty. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orzelek Posted August 4, 2024 Share Posted August 4, 2024 38 minutes ago, blakemw said: It has been like that forever. Not to say that I agree with it, it has always been annoying when a dupe gets scalded by even mcg grams of gas. But it's not a new game mechanic with Frosty. Ohhh wait. So thats why my dupes got scolded few times while walking next to wood burner that managed to reach 150 degrees? Thats good to know. And strange even if it's by design. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenedas Posted August 6, 2024 Share Posted August 6, 2024 On 8/5/2024 at 12:31 AM, blakemw said: It has been like that forever. Not to say that I agree with it, it has always been annoying when a dupe gets scalded by even mcg grams of gas. But it's not a new game mechanic with Frosty. Yes i understand that but the whole temperature exchange mechanic have been, at least partially, reworked. I'd like to see if bug get rejected or not since the intended behavior, at least to me, isn't crystal clear. Even if it was intended mechanic someone would hope that with new toasty surrounding debuff we could at least get some grace while being touched for a split second by a mildly hot fart Cheers Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imazined Posted August 7, 2024 Share Posted August 7, 2024 13 hours ago, Tenedas said: I'd like to see if bug get rejected or not since the intended behavior, at least to me, isn't crystal clear. Same with the wild hatches dying on Rime in seconds after being uncovered. There is an open bug for that for two and half weeks. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnumbskull Posted August 7, 2024 Author Share Posted August 7, 2024 So, to close the thread on this one, I did get confirmation from a dev that the chilly surroundings in starting water is intentional. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imazined Posted August 7, 2024 Share Posted August 7, 2024 3 hours ago, sirnumbskull said: So, to close the thread on this one, I did get confirmation from a dev that the chilly surroundings in starting water is intentional. Really? Time to link the mod to get rid of the issue. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3294665522 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1739662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenedas Posted August 21, 2024 Share Posted August 21, 2024 I am just coming back here to reinforce the idea that something is off with chilly and toasty surroundings. Poor Travaldo here is suffering of chilly surrounding for no reason at all, it should suffer of toasty surrounding if any. At this point i am not even hoping to get acknowledge by Klei about this issue but at least a silent fix would be great. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1741699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer JarrettM Posted August 21, 2024 Developer Share Posted August 21, 2024 @Tenedas Hmm, I agree that it's not clear what is causing Travaldo's Chilly surroundings in your screenshot. I'd like to take a closer look. If you still have this situation in a save could you please send it to me, or upload it to another bug report? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1741705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachunga Posted August 21, 2024 Share Posted August 21, 2024 His screenshot shows an atmosphere of only 19.5g oxygen. Is the entire room oxygen? Or is there hydrogen in there? A dupe will be chilly in hydrogen at that room's temperature. 1 hour ago, Tenedas said: it should suffer of toasty surrounding if any Why do you think this? A dupe's internal temp is 37C. In 27.8C oxygen, the dupe is losing heat. Not enough to trigger chilly because it is oxygen, but if the dupe is sometimes in hydrogen or something with sufficiently high conductivity then the dupe will get chilly. Also why on earth do you keep sending dupes into such low oxygen environments? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158489-can-the-devs-tell-me-if-the-new-heat-and-cold-mechanics-are-working-as-intended/#findComment-1741708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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