Do you like Ancient Fuelweaver as-is or would you like to see him changed or reworked?

[Gashzer]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If the game changed everytime there was a emotional debate dst would be the most updated game in history.

DST has had updates related to big forum debates. AFW has repeatedly come up in debates over the last few months.

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You know this would mean celestial champion would need reworked if not many people have unlocked the lunar affinity as well.

They already have been! Why do you think crab king got reworked? They are trying to make it easier to get to CC.

[Mysterious box]

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

DST has had updates related to big forum debates. AFW has repeatedly come up in debates over the last few months.

Your right dst does have updates that have been the cause of big forum debates should we remove skill trees and post rift content since it repeatedly comes up as well far more than fuel weaver infact?

23 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

They already have been! Why do you think crab king got reworked? They are trying to make it easier to get to CC.

Do you believe this will lead to a drastic increase in players who beat cc? People afraid to face cc will still be afraid to face cc.

[Evelo]

Really nice fight, just wish it wasn't so stressful compared to literally every other boss fight when playing solo.

[cropo]

It's not fuelweaver that's the problem, it's weather pains. The most annoying and time-gated item to farm, and fighting him without one is akin to a challenge run. You could use a brightshade staff, but that's a post-rift item.

If they changed the volt-goat horn part of the recipie, or introduced a cheaper and weaker version of the weather pain that performed worse but didn't require volt-goat horns the fight would just feel better for a lot of people I imagine.

[Gashzer]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Your right dst does have updates that have been the cause of big forum debates should we remove skill trees and post rift content since it repeatedly comes up as well far more than fuel weaver infact?

Making the game easier and having more transparent linear direction on how to face CC and AFW especially now that DST is coming to netflix games, should be a priority for klei. 

Skilltrees are great and anyone here that doesnt like the fun new skills are straight up lying because you can still choose not to use the skilltrees if you want. You also have a choice for rift content or not.

Klei have spent the last while reworking CC by making it easier to build pearls house, making QoL updates to the ocean, reworking crab king.

I hope AFW gets this same rework treatment because tbh the boss fight doesnt start in the atrium gateroom, it starts from collecting suspicious marbles and fossil fragments. AFW questline needs to be more transparent first before AFW itself gets a rework.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Skilltrees are great and anyone here that doesnt like the fun new skills are straight up lying because you can still choose not to use the skilltrees if you want. You also have a choice for rift content or not.

You'd be surprised how quickly saying this sets people off.

 

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Making the game easier and having more transparent linear direction on how to face CC and AFW especially now that DST is coming to netflix games, should be a priority for klei. 

If that's the case I think before that they would need to add a in game tutorial as most players never even reach the point where they're successful enough to reach those fights.

 

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

making QoL updates to the ocean

This wasn't for CC it was because people overall don't enjoy the ocean

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

by making it easier to build pearls house

Most of the changes made on this front were made specifically to make it easier to rush the task something your average player wouldn't care about since most people aren't rushing CC.

 

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Klei have spent the last while reworking CC

This does not count as reworking CC if it did then any changes made to seasons count as reworking seasonal bosses.

16 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Skilltrees are great and anyone here that doesnt like the fun new skills are straight up lying because you can still choose not to use the skilltrees if you want.

Thought I'd bring this up despite not being on the side of people who hate skill trees this is just blatantly wrong on two layers. First unless you exclusively play alone the extreme power creep skill trees introduce will have a impact on you even if you choose not to engage. Second fun is subjective saying everyone loves skills trees otherwise they're lying would be like saying everyone loves fuel weaver and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

[Gashzer]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You'd be surprised how quickly saying this sets people off.

Tbh i regret using that argument because the same people that hate the skilltrees and rift content also use the same argument to defend bugs (aww if you dont like it just dont use it blah blah blah)

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If that's the case I think before that they would need to add a in game tutorial as most players never even reach the point where they're successful enough to reach those fights.

This wasn't for CC it was because people overall don't enjoy the ocean

Most of the changes made on this front were made specifically to make it easier to rush the task something your average player wouldn't care about since most people aren't rushing CC.

This does not count as reworking CC if it did then any changes made to seasons count as reworking seasonal bosses.

But all these changes massively boost the likelihood of someone fighting CC. 

I think a thulecite medallion should spawn on a guaranteed set piece in the mud biome, being on a corpse of one of the ancients before they went all shadow creatures. And give it a much more noticeable effect to show where the ancient key is on the map... Make it pulse a red wave around it or something. Things like this could nudge people in the right way while also helping out experienced players at the same time.

[Gashzer]

19 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Because the stupid skilltree locks a skill behind him. before this AFW had been well regarded by his audience for several years and was considered the best boss in DST.

If the best boss we have is changed just for light gamers can click a button on their UI to get new character abilities, the game is absolutely doomed.

Best boss for the five people who can solo him without cheese...

Klei will undoubtedly have the statistics of how many people on consoles have unlocked shadow/lunar affinities.

Maybe loads of people are able to kill him and im wrong, we shall just have to wait and see what Klei does to find out eh? 

Edit: Cassielu deleted original post?? 

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Best boss for the five people who can solo him without cheese

according to the poll it's around 81 out of 84 that answered

4 hours ago, Gashzer said:

AFW has repeatedly come up in debates over the last few months

2 specific people keep bringing it up 

4 hours ago, Gashzer said:

If Klei checks and finds out only, lets say, 2% of console players have it unlocked then its pretty clear what needs to be done

it isn't, since most of those that didn't get it probably don't even know that FW exists or never summoned him

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The fact that there is such an emotional debate on AFW is a loud and clear signal to Klei that AFW needs changed in some sort of way

no, it's just 2 people saying same stuff

[Ryusuta]

I'd honestly prefer a total rework. It's just such an annoying, gimmicky tedious fight. I really hate having to constantly swap between sanity and insanity, killing the hands, hoping you don't miss one since they're blasted tiny, just to get another chance or two to wail on the guy.

I respect that some people enjoy the fight, but boy... not me.

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

I really hate having to constantly swap between sanity and insanity

One of the coolest things in the game :/

[Antynomity]

Keep him as is, the crab king rework is a joke.

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

Really nice fight, just wish it wasn't so stressful compared to literally every other boss fight when playing solo.

I like it that way, it's a high stakes fight and the vibe and challenge only makes that even better

[Gameplayer143]

I still can't forget there are people who unironically believe dodging his cage attack without teleporting is: "something that the average player can learn and defnetly not an obscure exploit."

Also where's the option of "I don't like his boss fight, but a minor adjustment can make a big difference", like I don't merely think he's "just fine", but I also don't he needs to be entirely overhauled.

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

something that the average player can learn

no one said that if you mean figuring that out on your own

[Gameplayer143]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

no one said that if you mean figuring that out on your own

No I recall someone saying that in another thread where I talked about not liking FW and then you suggested to me to use this obscure exploit for this fight.

[grm9]

Just now, Gameplayer143 said:

No I recall someone saying that in another thread

no one did, i've told you that it exists in that thread and i didn't say that, you've made that up

18 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

defnetly not an obscure exploit

bone cage doesn't work if you're out of it's range, that's working as intended 

[Gameplayer143]

Look at this page of this thread, and guille unironically arguing that it's an easy process to learn how to dodge his cage attack and isn't something extremely niche you need to learn

If it's not an exploit, then why is it so unclear on the range on dodging it? Why is it that alot of the attacks in this game have a clear well defined attack, but this one doesn't?

[grm9]

33 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

something extremely niche you need to learn

you don't need to learn that, you can teleport out of it if you don't

33 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

unironically arguing that it's an easy process to learn how to dodge his cage attack

pretty sure that that was about learning how to do that after getting to know that it's possible

33 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

If it's not an exploit, then why is it so unclear on the range on dodging it?

CK's heal cancel window's unclear, was cancelling it a bug? a rock in his claw visually breaks and bone cage only extends other abilities' timers if at least 1 bone cage spawns so they added something that'd happen if you'd dodge it

[Frosty_Mentos]

Fuelweaver's design is a lot better than other raid bosses as an OG a new reign enemy. Fighting him is supposed to be a compact and quick battle you gotta go through before you run out of resources, while on contrast there's Celestial champion who is dangerous but simple and long enough fight.

[Gameplayer143]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you don't need to learn that, you can teleport out of it if you don't

pretty sure that that was about learning how to do that after getting to know that it's possible

CK's heal cancel window's unclear, was cancelling it a bug?

Then why did you suggest to me to use that strategy after I already said I hated the normal method of using a lazy explorer? Explain to me how the average person is supposed even remotely figure out that you can even dodge his cage attack in the first place. I'm arguing that if you dodge an attack with an unclear attack range that is never really hinted at you unless you poke at every nook and cranny into its fight, than it's probably an exploit.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Then why did you suggest to me to use that strategy after I already said I hated the normal method of using a lazy explorer?

because it's more fun in comparison to teleporting out of it and i don't remember you saying that

5 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Explain to me how the average person is supposed even remotely figure out that you can even dodge his cage attack

i've said probably around 10 times by now in both threads that they shouldn't but you might have high speed and run out of it e.g. if you're using beefalo

6 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I'm arguing that if you dodge an attack with an unclear attack range that is never really hinted at you unless you poke at every nook and cranny into its fight, than it's probably an exploit

CK's heal window's also unclear and most people don't know that you can cancel pearled CK's heal on your own without minions and weather pains, is that also a bug? and how does it being a bug matter?

[Gameplayer143]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because it's more fun in comparison to teleporting out of it and i don't remember you saying that

i've said probably around 10 times by now in both threads that they shouldn't but you might have high speed and run out of it e.g. if you're using beefalo

CK's heal window's also unclear and most people don't know that you can cancel pearled CK's heal on your own without minions and weather pains, is that also a bug? and how does it being a bug matter?

No way is your average person going to notice that or try to figure out the specific attack range when they already have to deal with the boss' mechanics and try to out DPS his healing. The notion that anyone besides speedrunners will pick this up, is delusional.

I'd argue that it is bad game design if you make something unclear on how to deal with a mechanic. Like are you going to argue that something being very unclear is good game design? Yeah being a bug also matters, BECAUSE IT'S UNINTENTIONAL BY DESIGN. I give no credit to something if it's something unintentional.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I give no credit to something if it's something unintentional

what's the point of credit? why're we talking about credit? weren't we talking about trying to have fun when fighting a boss instead of giving credit to someone?

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

No way is your average person going to notice that or try to figure out the specific attack range when they already have to deal with the boss' mechanics and try to out DPS his healing

do i need to say it for the 12th time

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I'd argue that it is bad game design if you make something unclear on how to deal with a mechanic

so, if a game would've required you to press a combination of buttons that you don't know to start it but would've been great, the game would've automatically been garbage?

[Gameplayer143]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

what's the point of credit? why're we talking about credit? weren't we talking about trying to have fun when fighting a boss instead of giving credit to someone?

do i need to say it for the 12th time

so, if a game would've required you to press a combination of buttons that you don't know to start it but would've been great, the game would've automatically been garbage?

Because part of the fun of a game is figuring stuff on your own. I don't like having to rely on wikis or guides in order to beat your game. You wouldn't argue a puzzle game is good because you can just use a guide.

I know you're being bad faith here, because in no way is pressing any button to start a game comparable to the esoteric secrecy that is dodging AFW cage attacks or cancelling CK's healing. You're looking at me saying "murder is bad" and then going up to me and saying "oh but what about killing in self defence". 

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Because part of the fun of a game is figuring stuff on your own. I don't like having to rely on wikis or guides in order to beat your game. You wouldn't argue a puzzle game is good because you can just use a guide

then ask for devs to add clues about bone cage dodge and use teleportation for now, getting to know about bone cage dodge from someone else doesn't make it less fun to execute

2 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

pressing any button to start a game

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

press a combination of buttons that you don't know

i meant that if you'd need to look for information about how to start the game, would the game automatically become garbage?