I honestly want to know how we feel about CK's rework. (And... other things.)

[qwertyxavier904]

I haven't played this game in a while, and when hearing the ******* Crab King being reworked pipued my interest in the game's current state on updates relating to bosses. 

I wanna know how we feel about this rework. Is it good or is it even worse than the previous version? I really hated crab king previously, and after seeing the rework in a video, it sorta looks nice tbh.

Another thing, is do we need another boss rework for other bosses? I would really like a rework to Bee Queen or DFLY tbh.

[JustAFlower]

The new crab king is extremely good, not a hard fight but enjoyable and active. Also he now drops bottles at the end for the fight for treasure chests (give the broken Pearl to Pearl to only get treasure chest locations on the map when you open bottles now !)

 Drfly and Bee Queen need some sort of rework too but I think Toadstool is now the one on top of the list for reworks, because he's just a giant firepit for resources especially in solo, so yeah we do need other reworks for bosses.

[qwertyxavier904]

toadstool? yeah... but at least it is truly optional, like it just gives almost deco items but that one sleep item that no one uses

[Brotid01]

In general, CK feels way better in comparison to the older version making his fight actually fun and enjoyable of course depending of the gems you wanna choose.

About gems right now, the meta is Orange only or Green only even with a little of yellows, the other gems feel like booby traps, not because they’re too strong or anything just too annoying

The Red/Blue/Purple boost mechanics you can’t stop/dodge or avoid and then again that’s not strong just annoying.

Blue Gems reduce the time you have to damage CK before he starts breaking the arena and and increase their ice shield Hp. meaning you are force to spend more time and wasting more resources in general, more armor, more weapons, more wood, more boat repair, etc. nothing crazy just annoying.

Red Gems increases Canon Damage, and your boats don’t have a lot of Hp aka spend more time farming wood.

Yellow Gems increase the amount of Canons can spawn at once, making a bad choice if you wanna use red gems.

Purple increase minions Hp and Sleep resistance making the flute almost non-viable. and the flute is something you don't wanna waste in real gameplay.

Orange just increases his healing but if you are quick enough (Something really easy to do right now) you can cancel the healing without downsides or more handicaps.

Green ones just increase the amount of crawls their Hp and their damage I don’t like it but with little effort you can avoid all that.

Making it short or you go all orange/all green or put a little of everything.

[Cassielu]

It's a huge upgrade and indisputably much better than the old CK.

But still not a good boss, insipid and weird like the three lunar rift mutated bosses. At least for me.

[Guille6785]

2 hours ago, JustAFlower said:

because he's just a giant firepit for resources especially in solo

you can kill him in just 10 minutes as a x1 damage character with no cheese using only 3 glass axes, some flute uses, 1 ice staff, and a morning star

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

you can kill him in just 10 minutes as a x1 damage character with no cheese using only 3 glass axes, some flute uses, 1 ice staff, and a morning star

But does anyone really want to spend 10 minutes fighting an optional boss?

[Cruvimaster]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But does anyone really want to spend 10 minutes fighting an optional boss?

In DST it seems not. Interestingly, there are other games where 10 minutes is very insignificant. For example, in the Final Fantasy saga there is always an optional boss that can take hours to defeat.

But we are talking about DST and here the person spends several days in the plantation system, several days collecting wood/stones or several days sailing, but if a boss takes more than 4 minutes to defeat people already complain.

And we already know that the main argument in DST for absolutely everything is the word "fun".

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But does anyone really want to spend 10 minutes fighting an optional boss?

i do

6 hours ago, JustAFlower said:

Drfly and Bee Queen need some sort of rework too but I think Toadstool is now the one on top of the list for reworks, because he's just a giant firepit for resources especially in solo, so yeah we do need other reworks for bosses

we don't, figuring out strats for them's very fun and you can spend very little resources on killing them as any character, please don't ruin people's fun because of not liking something and instead at least try to figure out how to have fun instead of trying to kill the boss with only a weapon, realising that you're unable to do that without wasting too much time and complaining

5 hours ago, Cassielu said:

It's a huge upgrade and indisputably much better than the old CK

that's your opinion, imo it's much worse

6 hours ago, JustAFlower said:

The new crab king is extremely good, not a hard fight but enjoyable and active

extremely boring imo

6 hours ago, qwertyxavier904 said:

I really hated crab king previously

out of curiosity, did you try to kill him by using ice staves or rowing?

[chirsg]

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

10 minutes

Let's expand upon this

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

3 glass axes

Sailing, or if you're a 500+ hour player, you can deduce where it is on the mainland. Mapping out the world takes 6 days or so. Maybe you get lucky and find the branches early on.  Still need to sail to the moon island and move statues into where they should be socketed. 

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

some flute uses, 1 ice staff,

Both require tier 1 magic which requires tier 2 science. Even for the former, if you find it for free, it's irrelevant. You may as well make a pan if you have magic 1. Besides, finding a blue gem on average takes longer than 10 minutes.

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

a morning star

Rofl lol lmao.

 

I think what you're getting at is that you don't want toadstood reworked. I tend to agree. It's a boss with a solid reward. It was designed to be fought with multiple people, but there are methods to do it alone. But what you do is trivialize the entire process to win an argument with someone on the forums because you have an agenda. 

It's fine to have an agenda. Communicate your opinion better than just saying "You can do it in 10 minutes."

 

 

[mr. brj]

I really liked fighting the old Crab King, so I tried my hardest during this rework to not compare the old fight with the reworked one to only give the relevant feedback. I think everything the devs introduced for the reworked fight had potential to make the whole thing interesting. But instead of playing around with those mechanics to perfect the fight, it seemed to me like they went with the apporach of trimming out the imperfections of the reworked fight to keep the initial design without any significant changes, which is a huge shame.

Not many people cared about the old Crab King, which is understandable to a certain degree, but I don't think people will care too much about the new Crab King either. The whole rework feels like a change for the sake of changing something. I was hoping to at least experience something interesting in the end, but the rework in its current state fails to deliver me this experience. This is without mentioning my disappointment in seeing one of my favorite fights getting scrapped entirely.

[W0l0l0]

5 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

you can kill him in just 10 minutes as a x1 damage character with no cheese using only 3 glass axes, some flute uses, 1 ice staff, and a morning star

Do you have a video covering it? 10 minutes is actually pretty decent, especially with a 1x damage character.

[Cassielu]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

that's your opinion, imo it's much worse

dude you really don't have to contradict every word others said. this is not a debate.

[Cheggf]

I wish they would've just made the old fight better instead of replace it, but I don't think they're capable of that. The new fight is okay I guess, but the cannons are way too weak and don't really do anything.

8 hours ago, qwertyxavier904 said:

Another thing, is do we need another boss rework for other bosses? I would really like a rework to Bee Queen or DFLY tbh.

Dragonfly is fun if you actually fight her instead of cheese the fight and Bee Queen is one of the best fights in the game if you learn how it works.

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But does anyone really want to spend 10 minutes fighting an optional boss?

Yes. And if you don't, you can do things to make it go faster. Or, you can not do it at all, since as you said it's optional. 

[Wonz]

I only don't like how treasure chests are still pain to look for before beating him and even after. Let's say you desire a cane before mctusk appears. With old 33% chance and 2 bottles a day and 10% chance for the correct chest you need on average about 3*10*2=60 days to land desired item pool only if you really manage to not miss bottles and find them punctually. Now with 66% chance for treasure it's shortened to 2/3*10*2=30 but you have to do the same amount of sailing as with 33% chance and sailing is so clunky I get fed up fast with it. 

Now with 100% you'd still have to need 20 days on average so entire autumn given you can find kill crab king and find bottle on day 1. Now let's say your goal is to get it before winter so when it's easier with mctusk kills. You will get 10 treasures in span of 20 days that's 1-0.9^10=1-0,348...≈65 percent chance to get it if generous, you might get it on first try or never but what matters it likely will be waste of the effort most of the time unless you're fine with other loot

Likely last two tiers matter. I believe most of us gets more gems than they use anyway. Cane is nice, thulecite is nice but would you really search for other stuff on the list through chest rather than other reliable means? Nothing noteworth is reliable this method so that's why sunken chests are not interesting to me. Some might want subject themselves to this torture but other might go underground for 10 days or less to get much more of valuables listed here in much higher quantities. You need to go to ruins to get gems anyway so why not go right away since they are already in ruins?

I know the loot table changes a bit adding the trees and boat.

[Lovens]

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

Both require tier 1 magic which requires tier 2 science.

Technically you don't need to craft an alchemy engine to make a prestihatitator. It's a science machine craft, as well as top hat. But crafting alchemy engine is not hard either, by day 3-4 it's totally possible to have both alchemy and prestihatitator (and even get close to making shadow manipulator on day 4-5 if you get lucky with surface gems and living logs). I used to do a bunch of Wanda ruins rushing and I was pretty consistently getting her alarming clock on day 4. 

[Guille6785]

3 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

Do you have a video covering it? 10 minutes is actually pretty decent, especially with a 1x damage character.

This is pretty much the strategy I'm talking about, it took me 13 minutes here but I was playing it extremely safe and went for very few openings during the last 40% of toad's HP; I also used thule clubs instead of morning star (which are more unreliable in terms of DPS but are what I had available) and used fire for the first sporecap phase to make doing the fight with 3 axes more consistent since sometimes the thule clubs can get lower average DPS than expected which would put me in a bad spot. If you just use a morning star and don't do any of those other things this shouldn't take you more than 12 minutes (about 10 if you maximize your DPS but I'd recommend waiting until you have bone armor before fighting toad if you really want to shorten the fight as much as possible).

the longest fight in this entire run was celestial champion which I find funny because people praise that boss for not taking as long as the older bosses when that's just flat out incorrect

[Sir Noel]

I've just accepted the fact that no one will ever agree on how boss design should be handled in this game.

[qwertyxavier904]

Yeah... 

[Jakepeng99]

PLS Klei make it drop a sunken treasure upon death.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Sir Noel said:

I've just accepted the fact that no one will ever agree on how boss design should be handled in this game.

Consider the following: There’s are some bullet hell games you can play that allows you to adjust things like How Many bullets are on screen, How fast or slow they move, and how much damage they’ll do to you if they hit you.

Dont Starve Together is no exception, you can choose to take 40% Less or 40% more damage from all sources, you can also disable the ability to freeze to death or overheat, so you can literally just run around in Winter exploring but without the effects of Winter.

The one and only exception is the games bosses, you can’t tune how many enemy minions it can spit out, or how much health it has, or how much damage it’s attacks do to you.. Bosses at the moment are “locked in” and only change when Klei does some sophisticated re-work over how they function.