Appropriate penalties for non Winona's using telebrella and telepad.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean if it's your server tell them to cleanup their stuff when they leave if it's a public server this isn't up to you as everyone has equal ownership of the world and it's not like this the first time character structures others can't interact with are being added there's even another recent example in Wurt's armory and tools shed since the armor and tools break she's encouraged to build multiple stations throughout the world on both the cave and surface while she's on the move.

I disagree even If the server is public this just makes it feel more cluttered and If someone quits for a long enough time you should be able to remove said structures that you can't use, this isn't a base at one spot but something that Winona players can build all over the map.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

This would just completely destroy the charm of the game.

That is your opinion.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That is your opinion.

No charm plays a big role in attracting and keeping players this is a objective fact.

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

disagree even If the server is public this just makes it feel more cluttered and If someone quits for a long enough time you should be able to remove said structures that you can't use, this isn't a base at one spot but something that Winona players can build all over the map.

So remove it if she leaves what's the problem? Again other characters have the same kind of structures do you just leave them around if they're in your way? And if they aren't then why bother?

[00petar00]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

No charm plays a big role in attracting and keeping players this is a objective fact.

Again, it is your opinion that game would lose its charm If characters were designed that way.

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

So remove it if she leaves what's the problem? Again other characters have the same kind of structures do you just leave them around if they're in your way? And if they aren't then why bother?

Other characters besides maybe Wortox soul farms aren't really going to be seen covering whole world depending on the dedication of the player. Winona is a character that is focused on building and will have much more structures compared to others, the good thing is that we got access to catapults or it would've been quite bad.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Again, it is your opinion that game would lose its charm If characters were designed that way.

So you feel people wouldn't feel the charm was lost if Wurt was eating meatballs and froglegs, Wormwood was using the codex umbra, Wendy was using Wolfgang's dumbbells to muscle up, and Wilson using the goose idol to become a weregoose? Because those restrictions are what give characters charm instead of just being different faces made in a character creator.

14 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Other characters besides maybe Wortox soul farms aren't really going to be seen covering whole world depending on the dedication of the player. Winona is a character that is focused on building and will have much more structures compared to others, the good thing is that we got access to catapults or it would've been quite bad.

Wurt's structures do the same and those are hostile mob spawners when she leaves how is Winona's crafts harming your experience and again if they are and the Winona isn't coming back why can't you remove them? This seems like a very poor excuse unless this can be explained.

[00petar00]

41 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So you feel people wouldn't feel the charm was lost if Wurt was eating meatballs and froglegs, Wormwood was using the codex umbra, Wendy was using Wolfgang's dumbbells to muscle up, and Wilson using the goose idol to become a weregoose? Because those restrictions are what give characters charm instead of just being different faces made in a character creator.

Refreshes and skill trees how much have developers invested into characters? I have only played a few characters since DST beta and now only play one for 90-95% of the time. I want to be able to at least use their abilities/items/structures or the updates for characters hold no meaning to me besides seeing other people play them.

47 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Wurt's structures do the same and those are hostile mob spawners when she leaves how is Winona's crafts harming your experience and again if they are and the Winona isn't coming back why can't you remove them? This seems like a very poor excuse unless this can be explained.

I haven't played beta much but Winona needs to place so many teletransport stations to have access to most of the map while Wurt will usually have one base. 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

Refreshes and skill trees how much have developers invested into characters? I have only played a few characters since DST beta and now only play one for 90-95% of the time. I want to be able to at least use their abilities/items/structures or the updates for characters hold no meaning to me besides seeing other people play them.

I mean that seems more like burnout than anything but to be fair wanting things to be as convenient as possible isn't a bad thing but it conflicts with the characters being individuals and that does impact how other people view the characters and the game. I understand how some people don't care about characters feeling special and your choices mattering while having a impact on how you engage with the game but that does matter to a lot of people.

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I haven't played beta much but Winona needs to place so many teletransport stations to have access to most of the map while Wurt will usually have one base. 

Winona doesn't need that many just 1 at major locations and for Wurt she usually only has one localized spot if she plans on playing short term but her new supply stations give out items that break over time as well so it'll be in her best interest to build multiple of them across the map unless she wants to head all the way back to base everytime their tools break.

[El Harry]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:48 PM, Mysterious box said:

I mean that seems more like burnout than anything but to be fair wanting things to be as convenient as possible isn't a bad thing but it conflicts with the characters being individuals and that does impact how other people view the characters and the game. I understand how some people don't care about characters feeling special and your choices mattering while having a impact on how you engage with the game but that does matter to a lot of people.

Winona doesn't need that many just 1 at major locations and for Wurt she usually only has one localized spot if she plans on playing short term but her new supply stations give out items that break over time as well so it'll be in her best interest to build multiple of them across the map unless she wants to head all the way back to base everytime their tools break.

But your choices would still matter, we are talking about items that's about it.

Every character has some kind of perks that changes how you play it winona in this case would have her remote and the ability to move structures in theory you could apply the same to warly let others use his crock pot for faster cooking and more efficient kitchen designs but don't allow players to make their dishes nor spices when playing as him, Wolfgang gym giving some kind of benefit to their team if it's build, and so on.

I don't think allowing players use of other characters items is inherently bad for the game quite the contrary it allows the team synergy a lot players enjoy long as it isn't too far fetched for someone to use for example maxwell's codex umbra, abigail flower, willow's lighter fire powers or even winona's remote, Basically every item that centers on the main gimmick of the character.

Having arbitrary restrictions for X and Y items just makes the game more stale teamwise since it basically tells you inderectly that you should forsake your team to build structures and items that just benefit yourself ( Warly, winona gadgets, Wolfgang, and Wurt, Wanda are the biggest culprits of making expensive structures that don't benefit their team when they aren't present [altough wurt is excusable since she has the disguise] ). I'm not asking for those structures and items to be as powerful as using them with the character that they were meant for. Just being able to with some downside, I'm sure it'd make the game more enjoyable when playing with big groups. 

5 minutes ago, El Harry said:

But your choices would still matter, we are talking about items that's about it.

Every character has some kind of perks that changes how you play it winona in this case would have her remote and the ability to move structures in theory you could apply the same to warly let others use his crock pot for faster cooking and more efficient kitchen designs but don't allow players to make their dishes nor spices when playing as him, Wolfgang gym giving some kind of benefit to their team if it's build, and so on.

I don't think allowing players use of other characters items is inherently bad for the game quite the contrary it allows the team synergy a lot players enjoy long as it isn't too far fetched for someone to use for example maxwell's codex umbra, abigail flower, willow's lighter fire powers or even winona's remote, Basically every item that centers on the main gimmick of the character.

Having arbitrary restrictions for X and Y items just makes the game more stale teamwise since it basically tells you inderectly that you should forsake your team to build structures and items that just benefit yourself ( Warly, winona gadgets, Wolfgang, and Wurt, Wanda are the biggest culprits of making expensive structures that don't benefit their team when they aren't present [altough wurt is excusable since she has the disguise] ). I'm not asking for those structures and items to be as powerful as using them with the character that they were meant for. Just being able to with some downside, I'm sure it'd make the game more enjoyable when playing with big groups. 

I believe that having structures and items being unusable for other players is making the game more solo focused rather than team based making those items restricted is just a bad way to balance the game around solo play, Issue that started with how cheap character switching is compared to DST Pre Moon portal. And it got exacerbated after the release of warly

[Debruh]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:57 PM, Primalflower said:

i really just think winona should be able to take other survivors with her under the portasol the same way she can take items with her

I definitely hope Klei implements this. It would definitely make Winona players contribute more for the team (more than they already do) while not taking away from her individuality as a character like allowing all characters to use it

[Debruh]

On 6/22/2024 at 8:14 PM, El Harry said:

But your choices would still matter, we are talking about items that's about it.

Every character has some kind of perks that changes how you play it winona in this case would have her remote and the ability to move structures in theory you could apply the same to warly let others use his crock pot for faster cooking and more efficient kitchen designs but don't allow players to make their dishes nor spices when playing as him, Wolfgang gym giving some kind of benefit to their team if it's build, and so on.

I don't think allowing players use of other characters items is inherently bad for the game quite the contrary it allows the team synergy a lot players enjoy long as it isn't too far fetched for someone to use for example maxwell's codex umbra, abigail flower, willow's lighter fire powers or even winona's remote, Basically every item that centers on the main gimmick of the character.

Having arbitrary restrictions for X and Y items just makes the game more stale teamwise since it basically tells you inderectly that you should forsake your team to build structures and items that just benefit yourself ( Warly, winona gadgets, Wolfgang, and Wurt, Wanda are the biggest culprits of making expensive structures that don't benefit their team when they aren't present [altough wurt is excusable since she has the disguise] ). I'm not asking for those structures and items to be as powerful as using them with the character that they were meant for. Just being able to with some downside, I'm sure it'd make the game more enjoyable when playing with big groups. 

I believe that having structures and items being unusable for other players is making the game more solo focused rather than team based making those items restricted is just a bad way to balance the game around solo play, Issue that started with how cheap character switching is compared to DST Pre Moon portal. And it got exacerbated after the release of warly

I feel like that would make the game even more solo focused

Being part of a team means that you will have to make a few sacrifices. Like giving food that you were saving for later to a starving, insane or low health teammate, if that teammate leaves then you just wasted resources. Or sacrifing time by helping them get a character specific like heavier stuff for Wolfgang's gym, nurse spiders, helping Maxwell get nightmare fuel, souls or embers. In the structures case, the sacrifice is space and the resources to get it. You don't benefit directly from sacrifice but you do later on. In the first case, the teammate lives and helps the team, maybe even helping you directly by giving you food or smth. In the second case, they benefit from the structure and help the team. Wolfgang gets double damage which helps in fights and protecting teammates. Nurse spiders heal Webber, making him be able to fight better as well as consume less resources in the long run. Winona's teleports help her get around the map quicker, meaning tbat she can retrieve items for her teammates or teleport to a telepoet station that all characters can use and fuel it, etc etc.

And I think that the if your resources and/or time get wasted if give a teammate food, help them fuel the codex, get nurse spiders, embers or souls, and then they leave. Then space and resources should also get wasted if a structure is left unused after a character leaves.

Also, any character being able to just use Winona's teleport or Warly's faster crockpots, will lower interaction with teammates if anything. You wouldn't need to ask a Warly to cook for you if you're low on time, you wouldn't need to interaction with Winona at all, it's essentially as if you're on a solo world, just having switched to Winona to build and Warly for spices.

[cybers2001]

On 6/18/2024 at 9:41 AM, Zima Blue said:

I don't think other characters should use her teleports bc now this is a huge part of her, and without it she might be back to being a swapabble character, especially if the penalty is sanity loss, which is which is super easy to restore. In my opinion, she's fine as she is right now. 

Winona is an OP AF character right now, worthy of being mained, and it's not because of the teleporter.

[SpookyXy]

If Maxwell can use Wicker's books with extra penalties, then Wilson should be able to use some of Winona's tech with extra penalties.

[Mr Dai Nguyen]

On 18/6/2024 at 23:14, ChintzyGnat said:

Chỉ cần có một kẻ đào ngũ lười biếng ở mỗi bên.

I think The Lazy Deserter should change its ability to make Winona's skills more unique than just teleporting from A to B. It can choose the right place to go and cost your sanity.

[Cruvimaster]

On 7/19/2024 at 12:11 AM, Debruh said:

I definitely hope Klei implements this. It would definitely make Winona players contribute more for the team (more than they already do) while not taking away from her individuality as a character like allowing all characters to use it

Wanda could teleport for the price of a purple gem. Winona could teleport other players for the cost of an orange gem. Do you want the benefit? Then pay the price.

[Debruh]

19 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda could teleport for the price of a purple gem. Winona could teleport other players for the cost of an orange gem. Do you want the benefit? Then pay the price.

Orange gem could work, but it might also be too expensive, I do think a cost could work. Though, a ruins gem feels a little bit overboard. Then again, orange gems are the least useful. Maybe like 1 or 3 electrical doodad(s) could work? There's 3 things around the teletransport, smth connected with a red wire, smth with a blue one and one with an antenna that has a hole. Plug in a doodad into it, or 3 into each one, and Winona teleports anyone standing next to her with her, maybe for one teleport, maybe for more. Early game enough that it can be used, while also draining resources, that Win already drains (gold and rocks). It would make you have to actively farm gold to use it frequently.

Even better, frazzled wires. You can get a ton of these at the ruins, and a bit from graves, just like purple gems. Except that they're more easily gathered in masses. Maybe you can connect the things around the tele and be able to teleport several people.

[Dr. Safety]

I like it how it is. No one uses the lazy deserter anyway, so it got a buff if there is a Winona

[Max M]

What makes it fun to play don't starve TOGETHER is sharing our abilities, to make things more convenient for our friends. Contributing our skills to the group. 

Woodie exploring the map for the group, sharing wooden walking canes and cheap helmets. Walter giving out tents.

It's not very fun to be the only one who gets to enjoy the things you bring to the table.

I think the fear of the "switch character" is keeping us from having fun. When we're tempted to switch to other characters, that's a good thing. Unless it's because of current character isn't fun enough.

It's bad for a character to not be fun to use. 

There are probably people who enjoy Warly, but it feels tedious to me. I'd like to be more tempted to use him.

I think the game would be improved if Warly could share his crock pots(without the speed buff). But I think he deserves something extra to make him fun to use. To make me sad to switch off of him. 

Woodie's skill tree made him more fun to use. I still want to use him and then switch, but it's not because of a lack of fun.

For a long time, I only played as Wx, because his speed circuits are so fun. 

But Wigfrid's charged elding spear was tempting, so I switched. And the spear is SO fun, it was sad to switch off of her. And I'm still itching to switch back at some point. Because of the elding spear. Not because Winona isn't fun enough. 

Winona used to be a bad switch character. Promising, yet frustrating. Now, she's super fun.

But it makes no sense, and isn't fun, that she doesn't get to share her telipads.

Stop fretting about switch characters. Just make them all fun, and let us share. That's the whole point of playing together.

[Max M]

On 7/18/2024 at 8:58 PM, Debruh said:

Also, any character being able to just use Winona's teleport or Warly's faster crockpots, will lower interaction with teammates if anything. You wouldn't need to ask a Warly to cook for you if you're low on time, you wouldn't need to interaction with Winona at all, it's essentially as if you're on a solo world, just having switched to Winona to build and Warly for spices.

Warly is a chef. His cooking speed boost should only apply to him. But you shouldn't need to be a chef to pack up or use his crock pots.

Winona is an engineer. Only she can build or reassemble her machines. But other people can refuel them, and activate them. That makes sense.

And it would make sense for that to apply to her telipads.

[loopuleasa]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:25 PM, chirsg said:

Winona's teleportation is great, but having non Winona's look at the network and make absolutely no use of it is kind of a bit of a shame in a sense. All that work for a single character and all the space allocated.

Klei chose the correct design to make the teleport station ONLY usable by Winona.

They finally fixed Winona being a swap character with this ONE simple change.

[grm9]

6 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

Klei chose the correct design to make the teleport station ONLY usable by Winona.

They finally fixed Winona being a swap character with this ONE simple change

what's even the issue with swapping to a character having a benefit if you can just not swap if you have more fun playing the game that way

[Dr. Safety]

36 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what's even the issue with swapping to a character having a benefit if you can just not swap if you have more fun playing the game that way

Because at that point, why even have the character in the game at all? If all of Winona's buildings worked for every character, she was just the only one who could build them, then you might as well remove her and just make everyone able to craft them. No point in having a middle man.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Because at that point, why even have the character in the game at all? If all of Winona's buildings worked for every character, she was just the only one who could build them, then you might as well remove her and just make everyone able to craft them. No point in having a middle man

because you don't spawn into the world with celestial portal and infinite moon rock idols on day 1?????

[Dr. Safety]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because you don't spawn into the world with celestial portal and infinite moon rock idols on day 1?????

New craft: Wagstaff workdesk (costs 2 purple gems, 16 moonrock, 3 boards) - lets you craft catapults, generators, telepads, telebrellas, spotlights, etc.There, now Winona can be removed.

Or she can keep some of her kit to be exclusive to her like just about every other character has, and she can remain a character worth playing

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

New craft: Wagstaff workdesk (costs 2 purple gems, 16 moonrock, 3 boards) - lets you craft catapults, generators, telepads, telebrellas, spotlights, etc.There, now Winona can be removed

you still don't spawn into the world with those resources, celestial portal's also more expensive, requires getting orb or going to lunar, can only be 1 per world, doesn't exist in cave, requires you to go back to it for turning into character that you were playing as after making stuff and requires spending resources every time you swap for crafting stuff, though, that's not even remotely similar and doesn't make it nearly as useless as celestial portal for any one except bored mega basers, that's like pretending that volt goat jelly is all characters' recipe even though almost no one ever swaps to warly for making it unless mega basing      

4 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Or she can keep some of her kit to be exclusive to her like just about every other character has, and she can remain a character worth playing

walter, wortox, wormwood, wendy, wilson, wes and wickerbottom become almost entirely worthless during late game even with out taking character swapping into account just because of their perks falling off, is that entirely fine and much better than perks actually getting used, even if as tools during late game instead of something that you're forced to play as 1 character for?

[Dr. Safety]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you still don't spawn into the world with those resources, celestial portal's also more expensive, requires getting orb or going to lunar, can only be 1 per world, doesn't exist in cave, requires you to go back to it for turning into character that you were playing as after making stuff and requires spending resources every time you swap for crafting stuff, though, that's not even remotely similar and doesn't make it nearly as useless as celestial portal for any one except bored mega basers, that's like pretending that volt goat jelly is all characters' recipe even though almost no one ever swaps to warly for making it unless mega basing      

It is really not hard to get those resources at all. The hardest thing is the orb which is entirely luck based. I usually get it in the first autumn or winter, sometimes spring, but that is rare.

You guys should be arguing for a buff to the telelocator focus and staff to make it worth using instead of to take the cheaper, but character specific version, and make it usable by everyone.

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

walter, wortox, wormwood, wendy, wilson, wes and wickerbottom become almost entirely worthless during late game even with out taking character swapping into account just because of their perks falling off, is that entirely fine and much better than perks actually getting used, even if as tools during late game instead of something that you're forced to play as 1 character for?

All but 2 of those mentioned haven't gotten a skill tree yet, and the 2 that have were criticized for not having enough end game stuff. The skill trees are seeming like the character's way of staying relevant in the end game, so that's not a fair point to make. 

Wendy isn't good at fighting with melee weapons, but Wolfgang is. The solution isn't to have Wendy lift Wolfgang dumbbells for double damage, the solution is suck it up Wendy. She can deal double damage if she swaps to him, but she can't take that damage with her if she swaps back.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

It is really not hard to get those resources at all. The hardest thing is the orb which is entirely luck based. I usually get it in the first autumn or winter, sometimes spring, but that is rare

???

this still doesn't remove the fact that early game is a thing, you can get them on day 2 or idk if you really want to but that just isn't worth the time and getting catapults or other stuff that way won't be an actual benefit

2 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

The hardest thing is the orb which is entirely luck based

epic misinformation time, it drops with a guarantee from next meteor shower if you got crabby hermit to level 10 or made an altar on lunar and got her to level 7 or above that, you also still can just make the portal stuff on an altar

3 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

You guys should be arguing for a buff to the telelocator focus and staff to make it worth using instead of to take the cheaper, but character specific version, and make it usable by everyone

i don't care about that and am not talking about that, i'm just saying that swap characters aren't a thing and pretending that they are is pretty dumb, there's no benefit from swapping to another character unless, again, you're in late game and just bored/really want to kill a boss by just holding F by stacking damage multipliers or some thing 

4 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

All but 2 of those mentioned haven't gotten a skill tree yet, and the 2 that have were criticized for not having enough end game stuff. The skill trees are seeming like the character's way of staying relevant in the end game, so that's not a fair point to make

not really, they weren't worthwhile even before planar, it isn't related to that, so this entirely and fully applies, it's just that their perks are worse than other characters' perks, so there's no reason to swap to them specifically, also again, the point was why do people not complain about characters just being useless even though they complain about characters being used to give benefits to others

6 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Wendy isn't good at fighting with melee weapons, but Wolfgang is. The solution isn't to have Wendy lift Wolfgang dumbbells for double damage, the solution is suck it up Wendy. She can deal double damage if she swaps to him, but she can't take that damage with her if she swaps back

???

how is this related to what i said in any way? the point was that there's no reason to swap to wendy, not that i want her to deal double damage