Appropriate penalties for non Winona's using telebrella and telepad.

[chirsg]

3 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

This was adressed by the fuel requirements in latest hotfixes

I think now more than ever, since it's a weaker option, other survivors should get conditional use. 

[loopuleasa]

Just now, chirsg said:

I think now more than ever, since it's a weaker option, other survivors should get conditional use. 

I am not a fan of non engineers using engineering items without the appropriate degree.

It would crash the student debt bubble and it would be really bad for all the wasted cheap labor it provides.

[chirsg]

33 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

I am not a fan of non engineers using engineering items without the appropriate degree.

It would crash the student debt bubble and it would be really bad for all the wasted cheap labor it provides.

Student debt itself is an engineered problem by the universities. Back in the day, you could get houses and an education by working hard and saving money. 

Now, the tertiary education system is bloated with administration that doesn't need to be there and inundated with useless degrees irrelevant to any jobs at hand.
Let's not get into that. I have a lot to say about how much of a joke the modern education is, much less all the education institutions doing more to instil dogma instead of actually educating. 

I think any character now who waste an entire gem to teleport where winona's teleportation is more efficient would be relatively fair.

[El Harry]

I agree I feel like we keep getting structures that only one character can use At least most of the time I play with big groups of people I tend to have a lot of structures that only work with one character for example warly's kitchen, Wolfgang gym, A wanda's watch station, they are all basically rendered useless if they aren't present other characters have structures that can serve function without them being present maxwell's magiciant chest for example and wicker's library are good examples of that.

having more structures that are useless, without one character it just amplifies that issue, and most of the time is confusing for new players that can't use items that seem usable to anyone, Sharing is part of the teamwork aspect of the game and I don't like it being put aside just because people think their character will become a "switch character", another thing is that is hard to argue in favour with your team to spend resources making something they won't be able to take advantage of. Anyhow those are my thoughs on the issue at least what I've experienced playing with big groups in long term worlds at the end of the day teamwork is the most fun and rewarding aspect of the game. 

[00petar00]

For some reason players safeguard character abilities as If it would be the end of the world for their main to be called a swap character when the term itself is quite meaningless.

It is funny that you could suggest an even more powerful teleportation method that doesn't involve another character's ability and less people will be against it.

We need a reliable teleport for every character because it is that big of a difference when you play one of the characters that can and it is very hard for me to play a character without this ability.

Relocating wormholes with some new shadow rift item, lazy deserter without requiring another player and being able to select which one to teleport for balance make it very expensive to build.

[El Harry]

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

For some reason players safeguard character abilities as If it would be the end of the world for their main to be called a swap character when the term itself is quite meaningless.

It is funny that you could suggest an even more powerful teleportation method that doesn't involve another character's ability and less people will be against it.

We need a reliable teleport for every character because it is that big of a difference when you play one of the characters that can and it is very hard for me to play a character without this ability.

Relocating wormholes with some new shadow rift item, lazy deserter without requiring another player and being able to select which one to teleport for balance make it very expensive to build.

Yeah I agree with this, moving around the map with any other character even if you have a rider beef is pretty slow which makes teleportation a really valueable ability with every character that has it.

And for the swap character thing yeah, I'm not sure why people say X character is a swap character when they all have perks and playstyles that change the way you play when you play as them I don't really see the issue to swap to a character to make one thing and then swap back to the character you want to play is kind of like forcing someone to play a character they don't like just for the benefit. That's kind of how I see the winona telebrella and winbot functioning for the time being you just play winona to get that usable. instead of being better if you are playing winona you are forced to play as her to use it

[Cyrefy]

I mean, why not? It's not like teleportation makes much of a difference, it saves about 10 minutes in a 3 hour run?... amazing.

[Cuernito.]

and how is this gonna work if winona doesnt have the founder's keeper 2 perk? are all characters suddenly forget how this works? magic?

[chirsg]

2 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

and how is this gonna work if winona doesnt have the founder's keeper 2 perk? are all characters suddenly forget how this works? magic?

I actually think that Winona should be able to teleport without founders keepers 2.

[Cuernito.]

1 minute ago, chirsg said:

I actually think that Winona should be able to teleport without founders keepers 2.

This would turn the perk into a craft and swap perk, much like wigfrid battle call canister skill. are you ok with this? 

Sounds like a bad idea to me. everyone would just make all the wagstaff crafts and immediately are gonna get back to pick shadow seeker skills.

[El Harry]

7 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

This would turn the perk into a craft and swap perk, much like wigfrid battle call canister skill. are you ok with this? 

Sounds like a bad idea to me. everyone would just make all the wagstaff crafts and immediately are gonna get back to pick shadow seeker skills.

if winona doesn't have the perk then the penalty for teleporting applies to her it isn't that hard

[Cuernito.]

1 minute ago, El Harry said:

if winona doesn't have the perk then the penalty for teleporting applies to her it isn't that hard

Well remember that this is very high technology so i dont think everyone should know how to use it, but I think winona should be able to use the portasol over a transport station with other players to transport all with her. Thats the only thing should be done with the portasol to improve its multiplayer capacity.

[El Harry]

2 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Well remember that this is very high technology so i dont think everyone should know how to use it, but I think winona should be able to use the portasol over a transport station with other players to transport all with her. Thats the only thing should be done with the portasol to improve its multiplayer capacity.

Then winona leaves and the station is just there sitting without any function amazing design that's the whole point, I do have that issue with wanda as well and I play as her mainly it's kind of dumb being the gatekeeper to teleport, (specially in servers)

[Cuernito.]

9 minutes ago, El Harry said:

Then winona leaves and the station is just there sitting without any function amazing design that's the whole point, I do have that issue with wanda as well and I play as her mainly it's kind of dumb being the gatekeeper to teleport, (specially in servers)

Remember that in this update now all winona's structures can be picked up and packed so no there's no reason for the transport station to stay there, and if you have a problem using wanda cause you dont want to baby sit others then make a lazy deserter, the lazy deserter can be used by everyone else so your group is not gonna need your help to go to any location. And finally if  all you want is a cheap way for everyone one in your server to tp to any place then good luck with it lol.

[El Harry]

4 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Remember that in this update now all winona's structures can be picked up and packed so no there's no reason for the transport station to stay there, and if you have a problem using wanda cause you dont want to baby sit others then make a lazy deserter, the lazy deserter can be used by everyone else so your group is not gonna need your help to go to any location. And finally if  all you want is a cheap way for everyone one in your server to tp to any place then good luck with it lol.

every useful universal teleportation at the moment requires babysitting from one player lazy deserters have that issue as well since they still will need me to travel to the location to activate the lazy deserter so yeah, that's the issue, it's kind of like wigfrid's helms were exclusive to her (also the telebrella was the perfect oportunity to add a universal useful tp)

[Cuernito.]

2 minutes ago, El Harry said:

every useful universal teleportation at the moment requires babysitting from one player lazy deserters have that issue as well since they still will need me to travel to the location to activate the lazy deserter so yeah, that's the issue, it's kind of like wigfrid's helms were exclusive to her (also the telebrella was the perfect oportunity to add a universal useful tp)

bad example cause you know using a helmet is a lot easier to understand for normal people than a device that travels through space.time.

[El Harry]

Just now, NekoSoulx said:

bad example cause you know using a helmet is a lot easier to understand for normal people than a device that travels through space.time.

>Willow's lighter (cooking with it), Woodie's cane, Wormwood traps and bramble husk, Maxwell's magician chest... 

The point is mostly that having a lot of items that can't be used by other players kind of ruins teamwork, even wurt has an item to share some of her perks

I mostly feel like those design choices are targeted to balance solo play (and It'd make a lot of sense if that was the reason), when the game it's cooperative by nature. On a brighter note you can always use mods to enable those changes 

[Cuernito.]

2 minutes ago, El Harry said:

>Willow's lighter (cooking with it), Woodie's cane, Wormwood traps and bramble husk, Maxwell's magician chest... 

The point is mostly that having a lot of items that can't be used by other players kind of ruins teamwork, even wurt has an item to share some of her perks

Well my friend if you look at winona's perks now you will notice that a lot of her devices can be shared with your team, easy defense using catapults with walls now(noobs friendly), farms with catapults still works even if Nona is not present(mid to late game stuff), winbot works without winona there and can be used by everyone, the generators and gemerators can be fueled by everyone, the spotlight is a geat source of light now and everyone can use it.  So as you can see Nona has a tons of ways to help the team without being present, i think is reasonable that a strong device that needs hard knowledge to use should only be used by her.

And about all the others exaples, well they are as bad as the wigfrid helmet, all of them are easy to understand stuff, its not like i need a degree to understand how to use a lighter, lmao.

[El Harry]

3 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Well my friend if you look at winona's perks now you will notice that a lot of her devices can be shared with your team, easy defense using catapults with walls now(noobs friendly), farms with catapults still works even if Nona is not present(mid to late game stuff), winbot works without winona there and can be used by everyone, the generators and gemerators can be fueled by everyone, the spotlight is a geat source of light now and everyone can use it.  So as you can see Nona has a tons of ways to help the team without being present, i think is reasonable that a strong device that needs hard knowledge to use should only be used by her.

And about all the others exaples, well they are as bad as the wigfrid helmet, all of them are easy to understand stuff, its not like i need a degree to understand how to use a lighter, lmao.

Winbots don't work if winona isn't present you need to refuel them  (and only winona can) and I need to check if they change the fact that if winona catapults are set to sleep mode others can't activate it it was that way last time I played on the beta

[Dr. Safety]

They just gave you guys the catapults. You JUST got the best part about Winona and you're already asking for the second best part about her

[Cuernito.]

12 minutes ago, El Harry said:

Winbots don't work if winona isn't present you need to refuel them  (and only winona can) and I need to check if they change the fact that if winona catapults are set to sleep mode others can't activate it it was that way last time I played on the beta

mmm i checked the winbot part and its true, you can put the bot to refuel itself but you can't deploy it, well since the winbot is a worst version of wobot i think everyone should be able to deploy it manually and only Nona should be able to deploy it remotely with the handy control, i expect klei change this before the beta ends.

And about the catapults i think you need to play the more recent versions of the beta, the catapults can be "armed" by everyone, manually of course. 

[Demigardenerner]

1 minute ago, NekoSoulx said:

mmm i checked the winbot part and its true, you can put the bot to refuel itself but you can't deploy it, well since the winbot is a worst version of wobot i think everyone should be able to deploy it manually and only Nona should be able to deploy it remotely with the handy control, i expect klei change this before the beta ends.

And about the catapults i think you need to play the more recent versions of the beta, the catapults can be "armed" by everyone, manually of course. 

Bro your not getting it some things should be character specific yall got Winona best part her catapults and now you even want her skill tree the thing made to make Winona different and exclusive and now you want her teleport and winbot do you not hear yourself?

[Cuernito.]

Just now, Demigardenerner said:

Bro your not getting it some things should be character specific yall got Winona best part her catapults and now you even want her skill tree the thing made to make Winona different and exclusive and now you want her teleport and winbot do you not hear yourself?

what? bro Im trying to explain why i dont want the teleport to be used by everyone else lol? and about winbot do remember bro that the wobot is a better version of it and everyone can deploy it, i want winona to have the ability to remotely deploy winbots with the handy remote, and everyone else should be able to deploy it manually. i dont want everyone else to use her perks but lets keep the coherence here.

[00petar00]

6 hours ago, El Harry said:

And for the swap character thing yeah, I'm not sure why people say X character is a swap character when they all have perks and playstyles that change the way you play when you play as them I don't really see the issue to swap to a character to make one thing and then swap back to the character you want to play is kind of like forcing someone to play a character they don't like just for the benefit. That's kind of how I see the winona telebrella and winbot functioning for the time being you just play winona to get that usable. instead of being better if you are playing winona you are forced to play as her to use it

It really doesn't matter If a character is a swap character. I wish all of them were so that years of content tailored to characters is useful to everyone and not only for characters that you play. The more a character is a swap character the better.

5 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

This would turn the perk into a craft and swap perk, much like wigfrid battle call canister skill. are you ok with this? 

Sounds like a bad idea to me. everyone would just make all the wagstaff crafts and immediately are gonna get back to pick shadow seeker skills.

The reason it sucks for Winona even more that she is the only one that is able to use specific structures she crafts is that they take space which is completely unlike Wanda teleportation that only needs a clocks that you can fit in one scaled chest.

Why would I want to have a Winona on my server If she is going to spam structures that I can't use? I would feel better with any other character that won't clutter the world with structures.

5 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

Remember that in this update now all winona's structures can be picked up and packed so no there's no reason for the transport station to stay there, and if you have a problem using wanda cause you dont want to baby sit others then make a lazy deserter, the lazy deserter can be used by everyone else so your group is not gonna need your help to go to any location. And finally if  all you want is a cheap way for everyone one in your server to tp to any place then good luck with it lol.

It is quite difficult to place them at the correct distance to allow teleportation across the whole map and If a player is going to build like 30 between both surface and caves they are not going to pick them up ever.

5 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

They just gave you guys the catapults. You JUST got the best part about Winona and you're already asking for the second best part about her

Like I said structures are completely different because they take space in the world and not being able to use them makes me want to hammer them If Winona stops playing for some time because I don't want to see them all over the map without being able to use them.

All characters should have abilities and things they can do that is a benefit to everyone and I would want to see all character be the so called swap characters but for Winona this is much more important.

 

 

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The reason it sucks for Winona even more that she is the only one that is able to use specific structures she crafts is that they take space which is completely unlike Wanda teleportation that only needs a clocks that you can fit in one scaled chest.

Why would I want to have a Winona on my server If she is going to spam structures that I can't use? I would feel better with any other character that won't clutter the world with structures.

I mean if it's your server tell them to cleanup their stuff when they leave if it's a public server this isn't up to you as everyone has equal ownership of the world and it's not like this the first time character structures others can't interact with are being added there's even another recent example in Wurt's armory and tools shed since the armor and tools break she's encouraged to build multiple stations throughout the world on both the cave and surface while she's on the move.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

All characters should have abilities and things they can do that is a benefit to everyone and I would want to see all character be the so called swap characters but for Winona this is much more important.

This would just completely destroy the charm of the game.