The Winona catapult debate can be solved by finally removing the celestial portal

[EatenCheetos]

6 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

So if the majority of opinions say that "no i want the celestial portal to stay"

Majority of forum opinions is not a good representative of the playerbase, let alone the playerbase on social media. The forums tend to attract the kind of people that heavily optimize their runs, skewing the results heavily.

6 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

yeah the balance is off

So you admit it’s unbalanced?

[grm9]

16 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

So, in summary, if Klei wants character choices to matter and downsides / opportunity costs to actually be played around, they should remove the celestial portal from the game

you don't spawn in with moon portal and infinite idols

18 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Saying it’s “fun” is like saying infinite health mods are fun

the comparison doesn't work, you don't get infinite hp from switching to a character

[Copyafriend]

3 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Majority of forum opinions is not a good representative of the playerbase 

well the only people here are *forum* opinions, so drop the pedantic arguing. it's not about you having your opinion, it's about you literally being the only person on the other side, the argument is dead, you just keep resuscitating its corpse because you can't accept that there is no discussion.

you can have your opinion all you want of course, you can even make more posts later on, but this discussion is already dead man. you can keep it up if you really want to, but you're really just wasting your own time at this point.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

The forums tend to attract the kind of people that heavily optimize their runs, skewing the results heavily

they don't, a lot of people play suboptimally

[EatenCheetos]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

you don't get infinite hp from switching to a character

That’s not how comparisons work

[grm9]

Just now, EatenCheetos said:

That’s not how comparisons work

they also aren't remotely close, you don't become invincible or kill everything after hitting it once either

[EatenCheetos]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

its corpse

Its corpse? I’d say a majority of people on reddit and youtube would agree that the celestial portal is OP

Just now, grm9 said:

they also aren't remotely close, you don't become invincible or kill everything after hitting it once either

I don’t think you understood the comparison

[Castiliano]

It doesn't have to completely remove the mechanic, but putting a cooldown would already put an end to exploits involving it.
In addition, they should include a mechanic to reset the skill points applied. My suggestion would be for this to occur entirely in the late game.

[GreenBowers]

3 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Its corpse? I’d say a majority of people on reddit and youtube would agree that the celestial portal is OP

I don’t think you understood the comparison

Are these people in the room with us right now?

[cybers2001]

38 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Let me tell you, it’s a whole lot less fun knowing that I’m actively making things more difficult and all my effort is not even needed.

”Let others play how they want” doesn’t work as an argument here. Opportunity costs need to exist. The core balance of the game needs to be maintained. 

 

If you're not one-tricking Wolfgang then you're already playing sub-optimally.

[Copyafriend]

4 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Its corpse? I’d say a majority of people on reddit and youtube would agree that the celestial portal is OP

this thread is a corpse. it's just you arguing with whoever pops their head in to say that they disagree.

Again, do what you want of course, I'm not saying you shouldnt argue with literally everyone who pops in, or that you CAN'T do that.

I'm saying that there isn't really a meaningful discussion being had. you do you, im out.

[EatenCheetos]

1 minute ago, Castiliano said:

It doesn't have to completely remove the mechanic, but putting a cooldown would already put an end to exploits involving it.
In addition, they should include a mechanic to reset the skill points applied. My suggestion would be for this to occur entirely in the late game.

I like both of these ideas.

[Szczuku]

Not remove but defenitelly add a 20 day, client-side refresh period, to make people that abuse character swapping miserable

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

I don’t think you understood the comparison

i did, they aren't remotely close, infinite hp removes all ways to die and you can't avoid having it and calculating when you should've died'd be really obnoxious, swapping characters doesn't, the game doesn't become nearly as simple if you swap characters in comparison to becoming unable to die

1 minute ago, Szczuku said:

to make people that abuse character swapping miserable

you're a bad person, you shouldn't be allowed to interact with other people

[Castiliano]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

If it is a problem, they should make it hard to do like in solo dont starve instead of removing it.

A one-year cooldown (per player) after the character change, seems fair to me. It would make it so that he could switch, but have to stay for the next 4 seasons with the second character chosen, in addition to leaving it open for a third+ choice, but only after a while.

[Frosty_Mentos]

No no no, never ever remove the portal. We have character swaps in DS via world travel and we got portal for DST as same function.

I prefer changing characters to use their tools and play my mains when I wanna go do fighting or anything in general.

Removing celestial portal would do a whole lot more harm than actually making characters fun. Each character is getting skill trees and updates to be more distinguished and fun in their own ways and it'll make mains happy.

[marshyds]

make the idol and portal craft cost an iridescent gem, that way its harder to pull off.

[goblinball]

1 hour ago, EatenCheetos said:

Balance is everything.

I’m not even going to engage with the celestial portal talk since that’s never going to go anywhere and that topic is such a beaten dead horse it’s just a red mist at this point. That being said though I want to hone in on this specific statement because I think it’s very misguided and it’s a mistake alot of people make, not just on these forums but just in general.

Don’t get me wrong, balance is important, even in games outside of pvp stuff. However it’s only important to an extent, and statistical balance should never be given higher priority than fun. Making things more balanced doesn’t always make them more fun, and sometimes leaving a little room for players to exploit mechanics and come up with clever unbalanced strategies can be very fun and rewarding.

[EatenCheetos]

Maybe both an iridescent gem cost and a 1 year cooldown after use. That way people who have played for a while and get bored can switch, but the exploiters get nothing

[Frosty_Mentos]

38 minutes ago, marshyds said:

make the idol and portal craft cost an iridescent gem, that way its harder to pull off.

no matter how they balance it in endgame it won't matter anymore cause we reach the point of beating the game, essentially

[Mike23Ua]

The celestial portal is one of the most over powered and broken things about the game… not gonna sugar coat it.

And it’s an item that was added to the game pretty early into DSTs life cycle (before we got a sailable ocean and a story arch about the chunk of moon crash landing from the sky into the ocean)

However funnily enough, the Celestial Orb is obtained from a Moon Rock, now let me explain that there’s a huge effing quest line that requires you to reach maximum friendship levels with Pearl, kill her highly annoying and rude Ex Boyfriend, build a sacrificial Alter, Summon a Moon God, Kill aforementioned moon god, trade moon god parts to funny Hologram man- All just to enable Moon Rifts and the ability to craft Swords that are only slightly better than a Darksword.

But then there’s the Celestial Portal… which lets you turn Wes into Wolfgang at dirt cheap prices.

Yeah Klei I think you got your game balance wayyyyyy off somewhere, lol.

[GreenBowers]

Balance is irrelevant and fussing over it because people who arent you are playing the game in a way you dont feel is fair is entirely silly.

So what if they want to change from Wes into Wolfgang. You can turn off hunger, darkness and temperature killing you in the settings. Will you campaign those settings to be removed so no one else playing the game, people you dont even know, can never use them again, because it isnt fair and takes a click of the mouse.

Nah lets make the game stall out or crash their computer for 'abusing' these mechanics in their sandbox game 

[Mysterious box]

I feel like addressing the problem with the character is a better choice than messing with the celestial portal tbh as I feel like it's the multiplayer experience that should hold the real weight not just the solo experience.

That aside I know this part is out of context but I do want to say...

10 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

Balance is irrelevant and fussing over it because people who arent you are playing the game in a way you dont feel is fair is entirely silly.

So what if they want to change from Wes into Wolfgang. You can turn off hunger, darkness and temperature killing you in the settings. Will you campaign those settings to be removed so no one else playing the game, people you dont even know, can never use them again, because it isnt fair and takes a click of the mouse.

Balance is extremely relevant as it's a major driving factor behind most debates about characters both at the casual and veteran levels. Don't get me wrong though I don't me I don't mean balance as in playing optimally or everyone being completely equal but in that people do not like specific characters getting heavily favored over others. Games need balance in the sense that characters need their niches that make them feel special in one way or another otherwise it causes problems. Even Wes accomplishes this quite well he's not a strong character quite the opposite infact but playing him and using his abilities is a somewhat unique experience and why I like to play him from time to time.

[Primalflower]

the part where OP describes in a lamenting fashion how they feel like they're sabotaging themselves by not playing warly-buffed wolfgang is both a revealing and depressing insight

[GreenBowers]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

That aside I know this part is out of context but I do want to say...

Balance is extremely relevant as it's a major driving factor behind most debates about characters both at the casual and veteran levels. Don't get me wrong though I don't me I don't mean balance as in playing optimally or everyone being completely equal but in that people do not like specific characters getting heavily favored over others. Games need balance in the sense that characters need their niches that make them feel special in one way or another otherwise it causes problems. Even Wes accomplishes this quite well he's not a strong character quite the opposite infact but playing him and using his abilities is a somewhat unique experience and why I like to play him from time to time.

I feel as though people will play the characters they want to play, and taking away the ability for them to do so offers no real benefit. 

This only negatively affects people that make use of the mechanic by removing it, and the only benefit it would bring would be those that dislike that playstyle feeling pleased that people cant 'abuse' it anymore.

Lets for a moment rename the Celestial Portal to Wolfgang. All the DST players, the Willows and Wendys and Wigfrids hate it when people can just select Wolfgang off the menu, it takes zero effort at all and they can do double damage for free. It takes all the challenge out of the game to play him even though when you launch the game you are by no means obligated to play him. Now everyone campaigns to remove him from the game, or to make it so he can only become mighty on an hour cool down because its too oppressive, when the solution is just dont play Wolfgang, and let others enjoy Wolfgang if they want