New Crab King fight is much worse than current Crab King fight

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

500 hp, i've suggested to reduce their hp to 200 like how it currently is and cap damage that they can take per hit to 50 so having a damage multiplier isn't practically cheese, what thought? there are example fights if you don't want to think about how to do that, you can also use bees/ice staves if you don't want to row

that also applies to telling thoughts about all changes? why are you not saying this as a response to all threads about the stream if saying thoughts about something that you didn't get to test is bad even though you can already know just from looking that it'll be bad?

PC

fix controllers controls instead of dumbing the game down

no, rowing is entirely fine at least when using a mouse and a keyboard

how is that related? new CK just doesn't even deal damage to boats anymore and you need to quickly get to him and start holding F near him to cancel the heals

New crab king literally has minions firing Canon balls at your boat… lol I’m pretty sure it’s going to get leaks in it, if devs weren’t using God Mode.

[gamehun20]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

I’m pretty sure it’s going to get leaks in it, if devs weren’t using God Mode.

Player god mode doesn't matter to boats it's a separate entity 

[Capybara007]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that also applies to telling thoughts about all changes? why are you not saying this as a response to all threads about the stream if saying thoughts about something that you didn't get to test

Probably because most of the threads are not analizing the fight in a technical levels and are just "oh the little crabs look cute" and "im glad they reworked ck, i wonder what itll be" unlike you

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you can already know just from looking that it'll be bad?

I love it when forum users try to gaslight me into thinking i have the same dislikes as them

I dont know it will be bad, i know rn crab king is bad so i think ck changes is good

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

This is all of your "its good to judge an update on a 10 minute clip about 2 devs with godmode"

how is the clip going to be different if they turn off god mode and use marble armor and a football helm?

4 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

"The devs succeded at killing the claws by holding f" brother, they are in godmode

i doubt that tiny crabs deal 200 damage per hit so you could also just tank without god mode

4 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

"Its best to talk about before the beta releases since they could change it before the beta releases" betas are literally meant to make changes after player feedback lmfao

they might not do that in time if they decide to do that too late e.g. wormwood's saladmanders got bugged through last update

[Mysterious box]

14 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

You have to understand players dont like spending hours on a test world with freecraft to practique a fight that is already unfun to begin with

I understand you liked it but this is just opening up to a more casual playerbase that just wants to defeat the boss

On one hand I do agree and I don't really care about crab king, but on the other hand this line of thought is a slippery slope that'll lead to bosses like fuel weaver and celestial champion being nerfed for example.

[grm9]

Just now, Capybara007 said:

Probably because most of the threads are not analizing the fight in a technical levels and are just "oh the little crabs look cute" and "im glad they reworked ck, i wonder what itll be" unlike you

no, a lot of them are about wurt's skill tree being bad

Just now, Capybara007 said:

I love it when forum users try to gaslight me into thinking i have the same dislikes as them

you was a bit hypothetical, although you too probably wouldn't have liked if a fight that you've liked would've got removed and replaced by something that looks much simpler

2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

i know rn crab king is bad

it isn't, the community is, since a lot of people seem to still be saying that weather pains and ice staves are required if you don't use cheese

[arubaro]

"A good fight" 

They even said that you can keep stunning him via freezing, not with the same result but is still viable

The fight looks funnier, more dynamic and less repetitive. They clearly worked on it instead of the "lazy" previous design

[grm9]

Just now, arubaro said:

the "lazy" previous design

why is it lazy?

Just now, arubaro said:

The fight looks funnier, more dynamic and less repetitive

they've literally said that it loops after that iirc and it looks simple and boring, just kill claws and go hold F on CK after he spawns ice

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

They even said that you can keep stunning him via freezing, not with the same result but is still viable

why would i do that and how is that related considering that i've preferred rowing instead of using ice staves?

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

3 more weeks, maybe the fight won't be the same as now, but I don't want the old crab king either. Maybe he'll get tuned more to remain challenging.

While this thread is abit of a overreaction the reason they showed this content off so early is because they want feedback before they get too deep into development.

[kroban]

Bruh shut up, we haven't even tried the fight yet, this type of negativity doesn't help the Devs, you are just throwing **** at them for a 10 seconds demonstration of a fight lol

[grm9]

1 minute ago, kroban said:

Bruh shut up, we haven't even tried the fight yet

read the 4 other responses to the exact same thing

1 minute ago, kroban said:

this type of negativity

i've explained why i think that it's worse, that's just critique, i want them to do it better, so i tell them what do i not like about what they did and what do i want them to do instead

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why is it lazy?

they've literally said that it loops after that iirc and it looks simple and boring, just kill claws and go hold F on CK after he spawns ice

why would i do that and how is that related considering that i've preferred rowing instead of using ice staves?

But.. rowing isn’t fun? Having to walk your analog stick to the very edge of your boat and perfectly time tapping B repeatedly isn’t fun, and it becomes even more unfun if other features get in the way… such as stupid interactions with other structures on the boat (extract/retract and hop on board the plank) Anytime you needed to row in the direction that was anywhere NEAR your plank you were in for a painful gameplay experience.

And if you just miss the “rowing” part of the game uhh well, you’ll still need to row out of the way of his push back so you can get on the icey island fast enough to cancel out it’s healing?

[grm9]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

Having to walk your analog stick to the very edge of your boat and perfectly time tapping B repeatedly isn’t fun

very few people use controllers

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

But.. rowing isn’t fun? Having to walk your analog stick to the very edge of your boat and perfectly time tapping B repeatedly isn’t fun, and it becomes even more unfun if other features get in the way… such as stupid interactions with other structures on the boat (extract/retract and hop on board the plank) Anytime you needed to row in the direction that was anywhere NEAR your plank you were in for a painful gameplay experience.

And if you just miss the “rowing” part of the game uhh well, you’ll still need to row out of the way of his push back so you can get on the icey island fast enough to cancel out it’s healing?

no? the devs were doing nothing while it was making waves and were still able to get it to quickly

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

read the 4 other responses to the exact same thing

i've explained why i think that it's worse, that's just critique, i want them to do it better, so i tell them what do i not like about what they did and what do i want them to do instead

I think I'd name the thread a bit less aggressively and more formally as in having concern or something. There's valid reaction from people for not liking seeing the title, or often not reading the rest of the OP and taking things out of context. (Am guilty to an extent. Reading takes up energy.)

[Swiyss]

I made a test world today and killed crab king on day 31 with winona. Just testing the character and the fight before the beta.
Basically I think the fight is overall great. It has only some minor things to mention.

1 mistake and you're done, the fight is over. Do I like that? Absolutely yes, do people like that? No apparently.

Now we have a dark souls case, but in this example the company decided to appease the majority. 

[Szczuku]

Common L take

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Common L take

worthless reply

[_zwb]

Just mod it back if you love crab king so much, copy paste a few files is dead easy

[Armorga]

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

So far it seems like new CK is much worse, because

Claws not latching onto the boat removed the risk of sinking and instead turned them into just a bunch of effectively stationary things that attack once in a while, so they're mostly pointless

CK stopped attacking the player directly e.g. by spawning geysers or freezing them, so now you only need to deal with 1 easy thing at a time which is just boring, rowing out of geysers was also easy, which is why it got combined with avoiding claws to make the fight not as easy and boring

Heal is just free damage now except you can't cancel some of them because he starts healing after pushing you away and you need to spend time getting back and small crabs' attacks might force you to go away and only come back after heal cancel window ends, ig you'll need to tank or use some sort of AoE for stunlocking them e.g. abigail and idk what else since other AoE stuff doesn't hit often enough except weather pains

The entire fight is practically unrelated to boats now because the boat is only a barrier for claws to not get to you and you need to get off it to cancel heals

There's no complexity left because you don't need to stay in an area where as few claws reach you as possible when dodging geysers because there are no geysers and you need claws to reach you, you don't need to predict heal because he keeps casting for like 5 seconds before doing it, freeze doesn't exist now so you don't need to make sure to not be too close to CK if you put enough blue gems to consistently dodge it

I'd prefer for the rework to get reverted and for claws' hp to get reduced and for the damage that they take per hit to get capped at 50, similarly in comparison to maxwell's clones' damage per hit cap, so all characters'll kill them after hitting them 3-4 times instead of only wolfgang, that'd solve most of the fight's issues and maybe make more people start killing him by rowing instead of spamming ice staves, since a damage multiplier won't be required for comfortably doing that anymore

DO NOT

[BalkanCockroach]

Not gonna lie i definitely wanted CK to be a little more dynamic and less sluggish but this looks too dynamic. But i like the new minions he is atleast a proper king now

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Just mod it back if you love crab king so much, copy paste a few files is dead easy

i won't be able to access the more fun version of the fight when playing on others' servers in that case e.g. pubs

[_zwb]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

i won't be able to access the more fun version of the fight when playing on others' servers in that case e.g. pubs

Well that's what you get on public servers, you can't expect it to meet all your preferences.

The opposite of this can be said too, if they just do number changes then I won't be able to access the more fun version(which is a subjective thing) on others' servers.

How likely do you think that Klei would scrap the rework and do whatever you said? And how would the majority of the player base feel about that?

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Well that's what you get on public servers, you can't expect it to meet all your preferences

i don't want something out of a mod to get added, i want something that was in the game previously to not get removed, at least some way to fight current CK

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

The opposite of this can be said too, if they just do number changes then I won't be able to access the more fun version(which is a subjective thing) on others' servers

all people that like CK that i know would be fine with them requiring 4 hits to kill as everyone instead of only wolfgang and you could use axes or spears for them if you want them to require more hits for some reason, if they'll have 200 hp and have damage dealt per hit capped at 50

6 minutes ago, _zwb said:

How likely do you think that Klei would scrap the rework and do whatever you said?

they can reuse stuff from it as additions for current fight, cannons wouldn't be that bad even though the land fight phase sucks

6 minutes ago, _zwb said:

And how would the majority of the player base feel about that?

most people seem to still think that fighting CK with oars is unviable so whatever, they just keep repeating whatever others said instead of trying to find a strat that's fun and efficient, they could've made CK spit a driftwood oar at you at the start of the fight or something to tell people that they can row instead of spamming ice staves

[Pet Rock]

54 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how is the clip going to be different if they turn off god mode and use marble armor and a football helm?

You do realize you don't have to tank him? It's usually funner.

Also, tanking is a strategy, just like using the ice staff (which is still viable according to devs), and kiting attacks. Many additional strategies are also likely to evolve when players get their hands on the update.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Pet Rock said:

You do realize you don't have to tank him?

you probably do since if you aren't attacking him, he'll heal

1 minute ago, Pet Rock said:

Also, tanking is a strategy, just like using the ice staff (which is still viable according to devs), and kiting attacks. Many additional strategies are also likely to evolve when players get their hands on the update

crabs seem to have a lot of hp and be stunlockable so wendy players'll use abigail instead of tanking and that's it, weather pains are too expensive to use for that and it's probably better to use 1 marble armor instead of pan flute