New Crab King fight is much worse than current Crab King fight

[grm9]

So far it seems like new CK is much worse, because

Claws not latching onto the boat removed the risk of sinking and instead turned them into just a bunch of effectively stationary things that attack once in a while, so they're mostly pointless

CK stopped attacking the player directly e.g. by spawning geysers or freezing them, so now you only need to deal with 1 easy thing at a time which is just boring, rowing out of geysers was also easy, which is why it got combined with avoiding claws to make the fight not as easy and boring

Heal is just free damage now except you can't cancel some of them because he starts healing after pushing you away and you need to spend time getting back and small crabs' attacks might force you to go away and only come back after heal cancel window ends, ig you'll need to tank or use some sort of AoE for stunlocking them e.g. abigail and idk what else since other AoE stuff doesn't hit often enough except weather pains

The entire fight is practically unrelated to boats now because the boat is only a barrier for claws to not get to you and you need to get off it to cancel heals

There's no complexity left because you don't need to stay in an area where as few claws reach you as possible when dodging geysers because there are no geysers and you need claws to reach you, you don't need to predict heal because he keeps casting for like 5 seconds before doing it, freeze doesn't exist now so you don't need to make sure to not be too close to CK if you put enough blue gems to consistently dodge it

I'd prefer for the rework to get reverted and for claws' hp to get reduced and for the damage that they take per hit to get capped at 50, similarly in comparison to maxwell's clones' damage per hit cap, so all characters'll kill them after hitting them 3-4 times instead of only wolfgang, that'd solve most of the fight's issues and maybe make more people start killing him by rowing instead of spamming ice staves, since a damage multiplier won't be required for comfortably doing that anymore

[mkemal23]

?

How can you be so sure when you didn't even tested the fight?

[Swiyss]

I'll wait to test the fight first before giving my opinion. I think overall they can change some things here and there to make it better but.. I am indeed going to miss the uncompromising and hard nature of the old fight.

[arubaro]

I didnt you have been selected for a close beta test. What a lucky guy

[grm9]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

I didnt you have been selected for a close beta test. What a lucky guy

assumptions are a thing, i assumed that it's going to be that way because the devs succeeded at doing the fight by killing claws and holding F on CK after that

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I don't think I've seen the rest of it to have a full opinion to judge it yet as for we didn't get the full fight there

i'm pretty sure that they said that the fight just loops after that, which is why i think that it's disappointing

[Antynomity]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

This is a very immature response, the OP is just unsure of the fight and worried that it might be changed forever and ruined. That said, final design isn't finished, we still got three weeks till the update. Best to put these threads and opinions out now than never.

Isn't it 3 weeks til beta? So even more time for the fight to be worked on which is gr8

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

i'm pretty sure that they said that the fight just loops after that, which is why i think that it's disappointing

Just now, Antynomity said:

Isn't it 3 weeks til beta? So even more time for the fight to be worked on which is gr8

3 more weeks, maybe the fight won't be the same as now, but I don't want the old crab king either. Maybe he'll get tuned more to remain challenging.

[Mike23Ua]

I think considering that the Dont starve franchise has always been closely compared and related to RogueLites (the genre Klei directly specializes in by the way..) that it was only a matter of time before they took a boring fight that had very few actual mechanics involved and they made it more in-depth and player involved.

It required next to no skill to row a boat round and round in circles, it was just tedious, drawn out & boring..

The new fight unfortunately won’t be playable till 3 weeks from now, AND even then… I won’t be able to play it till it releases on Xbox, but from what I saw during the Dev Livestream, this looks to be more on Par with other RogueLite/Like bosses.

There will be new features you’ll need to adapt to for the new fight, such as being able to get your boat close enough to crab kings icey island to get off your boat and cancel out it’s healing, also since the devs were playing in god mode… Im going to assume that Wilson couldn’t slip and fall on his behind like most other ice patches.. but that will happen at full release, requiring the player to pay attention to how fast they’re moving about.

Which pairs hand in hand with: Listening to sound of cracking ice beneath your feet to get the heck out of the area and back onto your boat before the entire island sinks!

I believe that whatever you enjoyed about the original fight has been replaced by something that will no doubt be miles and above better.

It remains to be seen however if fighting the crab boss at all will even be a worthwhile endeavor, because as long as his loots sucks… I’ll only ever fight him once per world to finish pearls dumb quest.

The new boss has canon tower crabs, so if Klei gave me stacks of canon ball Ammo from engaging with this reworked version of Crab King, that would be a worthwhile reward (and can make canons and canon balls a viable weapon for things like future crab king fights or scaring off pirate raids)

[Uedo]

Yeah it looks a lot easier - I'm not a fan of some of the choices, but it at least seems less tedious. I'd have prefered something else from a CK rework, but truthfully, I fight him once and never again. I'm hoping it'll at least change that.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

3 more weeks, maybe the fight won't be the same as now, but I don't want the old crab king either. Maybe he'll get tuned more to remain challenging

they could change him before beta if they get thoughts about the fight now

5 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I don't want the old crab king either

the suggestion was to revert the rework and change current CK a bit to allow placing boats on top of birds/make them not spawn near him and make claws effectively die after X hits so killing him by rowing would be equally as viable as all characters

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

it was only a matter of time before they took a boring fight that had very few actual mechanics involved and they made it more in-depth and player involved

current CK fight is more complex than what they've shown, compare new CK to fighting current CK by rowing instead of using bees and dodging geysers until he dies

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Listening to sound of cracking

pretty sure that it just breaks after heal ends

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

being able to get your boat close enough to crab kings icey island to get off your boat and cancel out it’s healing

the devs didn't do anything while CK was making waves and were able to row a few times after he stopped making them to get onto ice anyway

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I believe that whatever you enjoyed about the original fight has been replaced by something that will no doubt be miles and above better

no

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

requiring the player to pay attention to how fast they’re moving about

you'll only need to walk from the edge of the ice to CK and start holding F

[DaZoul]

I understand that you for whatever reason prefer the current fight, however we live in a decromacy, and I'm afraid most people loathe it. Even if the mechanics got touched up as you suggest, I'm sure many people would still find this new battle much more engaging and just overall fun, partly because a lot of players still dislike the boat mechanics, especially for fighting.

Speaking personally, I have very little experience actually fighting the boss, I form my personal opinions on him mainly from sight, others' opinions and some testing, but I have yet to fight him in an actual survival world. Which is why  I restrained from commenting on this subject initially, instead using that humorous wee emoticon meant to highlight the ridiculousness of speaking on a subject, the new fight in this case, while possessing very limited information on the matter, even from just viewing it. 

What I'm trying to say is, I get that you're trying to make the most of these 3 weeks in terms of feedback, but maybe we should just wait until the actual fight releases into beta. I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to adjust it then.

[Masked Koopa]

I adore the cute little crabs, it's super cool that he now lives up to his title of king. I would appreciate a critter based on those crabs. It's also really cool to see them make him actually lunar to justify his allignment.

My biggest complaint is probably that the new loot is yet more boating gear. I'm kind of sick of ocean bosses having loot only useful on the ocean. I was hoping the loot could vary based on the gems you socket into him.

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

I adore the cute little crabs, it's super cool that he now lives up to his title of king. I would appreciate a critter based on those crabs. It's also really cool to see them make him actually lunar to justify his allignment.

My biggest complaint is probably that the new loot is yet more boating gear. I'm kind of sick of ocean bosses having loot only useful on the ocean. I was hoping the loot could vary based on the gems you socket into him.

Quick add tiny crab pet den critter to the suggestions forum so it can make it for the official content update! 

[grm9]

1 hour ago, DaZoul said:

the ridiculousness of speaking on a subject, the new fight in this case, while possessing very limited information on the matter, even from just viewing it

even if it'll end up being harder than it looks it'll still be bad because there'll only be 1 strat similarly in comparison to all new bosses and they've removed a good fight

1 hour ago, DaZoul said:

for whatever reason

i've explained why through the 1st post

1 hour ago, DaZoul said:

most people loathe it

most of them never tried to kill him by rowing instead of freezing and just kept repeating what others said back when oars were useless, a lot of people repeat what others say instead of trying on their own, e.g. people saying that you can't avoid ham bat rotting when fighting toad

1 hour ago, Masked Koopa said:

I adore the cute little crabs, it's super cool that he now lives up to his title of king. I would appreciate a critter based on those crabs. It's also really cool to see them make him actually lunar to justify his allignment

they could somehow make those more interesting ti deal with and add them to current fight instead of removing it

1 hour ago, DaZoul said:

I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to adjust it then

or it could become remotely good only after multiple updates like a lot of stuff that they added recently e.g. some skill trees, e.g. shadow fire and wormwood's saladmanders

[somethin]

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

even if it'll end up being harder than it looks it'll still be bad because there'll only be 1 strat similarly in comparison to all new bosses and they've removed a good fight

I wouldn't call it a "good fight" when I always see people complain about him or resort to cheese (like me. praise be Apis mellifera)

[Frosty_Mentos]

Don't forget that we can customize that boss, meaning we can just make the fight however we want if we want to make it good.

I'm still gonna cry a river that Crab King doesn't drop treasures after killing past first time.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, somethin said:

I wouldn't call it a "good fight" when I always see people complain about him or resort to cheese (like me. praise be Apis mellifera)

most of those people never tried fighting him by rowing so instead they just repeat what people said about trying that before waterlogged back when oars were bad

1 hour ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Don't forget that we can customize that boss, meaning we can just make the fight however we want if we want to make it good

no? is that a joke about gems just being numbers changes?

4 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

?

How can you be so sure when you didn't even tested the fight?

pretty sure that i've responded to this but ig the message got deleted because of containing a deleted message as a quote so those are assumptions, it's best to talk about thoughts about the fight anyway even before the beta since they could change it before beta starts that way, otherwise it could only become good after multiple updates e.g. wormwood's saladmanders and willow's shadow fire, i also don't need to play the beta to know that they've removed a fight that i liked and replaced it with something else

[Jakepeng99]

We havent played it yet. Though i am surprised they reworked it that much. Looks good.

[grm9]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

We havent played it yet

read the 2 other responses to the exact same thing

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Though i am surprised they reworked it that much. Looks good

looks boring, just kill claws and hold F on CK while tanking crabs after that

[Capybara007]

Most people i saw hated the crab king fight, so klei reworked it, i dont see the problem

You have to understand players dont like spending hours on a test world with freecraft to practique a fight that is already unfun to begin with

I understand you liked it but this is just opening up to a more casual playerbase that just wants to defeat the boss

And beta isnt even out, you dont know if there are gonna be new strategies, just because you saw 2 devs use god mode to tank the new minions and called that "holding f" doesnt mean that is gonna be the fight for every character with every item

32 minutes ago, grm9 said:

most of those people never tried fighting him by rowing so instead they just repeat what people said about trying that before waterlogged back when oars were bad

Because the 300 hp claws didnt allow you to move which made it so if you didnt had damage mults to be very precise with boat placement, people arent gonna agree with you if you want everyone to put as much thought on something they arent having fun

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

read the 2 other responses to the exact same thing

All you are saying its good to have a gripe against something we didnt test because otherwise when the beta drops it wont be like you want it to

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Capybara007 said:

And beta isnt even out

read the 3 other responses to the exact same thing

2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

I understand you liked it but this is just opening up to a more casual playerbase that just wants to defeat the boss

they already could use ice staves or bees

2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

You have to understand players dont like spending hours on a test world with freecraft to practique a fight that is already unfun to begin with

it's fun and you don't need to practice that much since there are strats that don't require practice

2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Most people i saw hated the crab king fight

most of them never tried fighting it by rowing and just kept repeating stuff that others said before waterlogged back when oars were bad

3 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

doesnt mean that is gonna be the fight for every character with every item

seems like it'll be, there's no time to lure them away because you need to keep constantly attacking CK to cancel heals so you'll just either tank or set up something that fights/stunlocks them e.g. abigail and that's probably it, weather pains would be too expensive and it'll probably be better to tank a few hits instead of using flute

[Mike23Ua]

38 minutes ago, grm9 said:

most of those people never tried fighting him by rowing so instead they just repeat what people said about trying that before waterlogged back when oars were bad

no? is that a joke about gems just being numbers changes?

pretty sure that i've responded to this but ig the message got deleted because of containing a deleted message as a quote so those are assumptions, it's best to talk about thoughts about the fight anyway even before the beta since they could change it before beta starts that way, otherwise it could only become good after multiple updates e.g. wormwood's saladmanders and willow's shadow fire, i also don't need to play the beta to know that they've removed a fight that i liked and replaced it with something else

So I have a genuine question here, which platform do you even play DST on? Answer truthfully because I can absolutely assure you that Rowing on an Xbox controller is one of the LEAST fun things in the entire game…

Klei has done a few tweaks to improve it over time, but originally.. the player had to walk right up against the edge of their boat to pull up the “row” prompt, and if said player wasn’t smushed against the edge of the boat… rowing wasn't even an action option.

It also Collided with other boating functions, such as Interacting with retracting or boarding onto your emergency exit plank raft thing

repairing Boat leaks can equally be an absolute pain with an Xbox controller as well, which is likely why the reworked fight features the new on land battle segments, to give the player room to breath.

Rowing isn’t fun.. and doing it during a BOSS FIGHT of all things… was the worst.

Its literally part of why crab king was considered the worst boss in the entire game to many players.

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Because the 300 hp claws didnt allow you to move which made it so if you didnt had damage mults to be very precise with boat placement, people arent gonna agree with you if you want everyone to put as much thought on something they arent having fun

500 hp, i've suggested to reduce their hp to 200 like how it currently is and cap damage that they can take per hit to 50 so having a damage multiplier isn't practically cheese, what thought? there are example fights if you don't want to think about how to do that, you can also use bees/ice staves if you don't want to row

9 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

All you are saying its good to have a gripe against something we didnt test because otherwise when the beta drops it wont be like you want it to

that also applies to telling thoughts about all changes? why are you not saying this as a response to all threads about the stream if saying thoughts about something that you didn't get to test is bad even though you can already know just from looking that it'll be bad?

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

So I have a genuine question here, which platform do you even play DST on?

PC

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can absolutely assure you that Rowing on an Xbox controller is one of the LEAST fun things in the entire game…

Klei has done a few tweaks to improve it over time, but originally.. the player had to walk right up against the edge of their boat to pull up the “row” prompt, and if said player wasn’t smushed against the edge of the boat… rowing wasn't even an action option.

repairing Boat leaks can equally be an absolute pain with an Xbox controller as well, which is likely why the reworked fight features the new on land battle segments, to give the player room to breath.

Rowing isn’t fun.. and doing it during a BOSS FIGHT of all things… was the worst

fix controllers controls instead of dumbing the game down

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Its literally part of why crab king was considered the worst boss in the entire game to many players

no, rowing is entirely fine at least when using a mouse and a keyboard

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

repairing Boat leaks can equally be an absolute pain with an Xbox controller as well, which is likely why the reworked fight features the new on land battle segments, to give the player room to breath

how is that related? new CK just doesn't even deal damage to boats anymore and you need to quickly get to him and start holding F near him to cancel the heals

[Capybara007]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

assumptions are a thing, i assumed that it's going to be that way because the devs succeeded at doing the fight by killing claws and holding F on CK after that

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

even if it'll end up being harder than it looks it'll still be bad because there'll only be 1 strat similarly in comparison to all new bosses and they've removed a good fight

i've explained why through the 1st post

40 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it's best to talk about thoughts about the fight anyway even before the beta since they could change it before beta starts that way, otherwise it could only become good after multiple updates 

This is all of your "its good to judge an update on a 10 minute clip about 2 devs with godmode"

"The devs succeded at killing the claws by holding f" brother, they are in godmode

"Its best to talk about before the beta releases since they could change it before the beta releases" betas are literally meant to make changes after player feedback lmfao

[Brago-sama]

Nah bro, you alone on this opinion