Lore's cool but...

[Szczuku]

The new short sheds some light on the Staffster but to me it looks like it creates more plot holes than it answers. Or, well, 'plotholes'. This is only the first intermission short after all; Maybe the future ones will have the answers, maybe not.

1) If Wagstaff is all about the nightmare fuel in the lore and in the singleplayer, then how come he is so obsessed with Alter in dst? Is this just the byproduct of Klei only having like 3 characters to work with when it comes to lore (who are not survivors)? Or is there some written but unrevealed lore on how Wagstaff was attacked by the shadows and decided to change sides?

2) How does his ability to project himself play into the timeline? Why is his radio the key element of freeing someone from the nightmare throne? Why don't we see tonnes more of Wagstaff's influence in the Constant? Lore-wise that guy is a walking warcrime against 'do not litter' signs so how come it is canonically only after the moonstorms that he actually starts appearing. Sure, gameplay-wise Moon Quay and the junkpiles are present day one. But when it comes to lore, these only happen after the Alter awakens

[ADM]

I'm assuming (and hoping) that it's what we're going to see on the next ones. This first short is the premise of everything we knew about Wagstaff so as much as we can make some minor guesses about what happened in between of this and the Wagstaff we know in-game, Klei is probably gonna satisfy more and more our curiosity with this format of intermissions.

And that's about damn time this all unfolds, but thanks ! :'D

[lowercase skye]

7 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

If Wagstaff is all about the nightmare fuel in the lore and in the singleplayer, then how come he is so obsessed with Alter in dst?

Wagstaff is curious about and fascinated by strange and magical objects... of which Don't Starve has a total of 0 related to the moon. There's Glommer's flower, I guess? But there's no moon rocks, no pure brilliance, no moon caller's staff, no opals, no moonstone... etc. Wagstaff can't show a fascination with the moon because there's nothing for him to examine in DS related to the moon, is how I've always thought about it.

[Szczuku]

1 minute ago, finn from human said:

Wagstaff can't show a fascination with the moon because there's nothing for him to examine in DS related to the moon

I was looking at this more under the lens of why did he stop caring about the shadows in dst

Especially since there's actually a fair bit of shadow-related machinery in the singleplayer. I'm starting to wonder if those Teleportatoes and Maxwell Door were actually 100% the doing of Maxwell.

But hey-hey, that's singleplayer stuff and we all know that Klei doesn't touch that. Unless they can use it in cinematics, cuz god forbid we get comics or puzzels nowadays

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Szczuku said:

I was looking at this more under the lens of why did he stop caring about the shadows in dst

probably thought that glass cutters are better than dark swords

[LinknAllie]

28 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I was looking at this more under the lens of why did he stop caring about the shadows in dst

Especially since there's actually a fair bit of shadow-related machinery in the singleplayer. I'm starting to wonder if those Teleportatoes and Maxwell Door were actually 100% the doing of Maxwell.

But hey-hey, that's singleplayer stuff and we all know that Klei doesn't touch that. Unless they can use it in cinematics, cuz god forbid we get comics or puzzels nowadays

I don't think he ever stopped caring about the shadows, it's just that he switched major interests to something much more unknown to him (the Moon and Altar).  Perhaps he could be using the stuff from the moon to study the shadows further, seeing the interactions between the 2 conflicting forces.  I think we'll eventually see him return to delve deeper into shadow magic again.  It's a possibility that he's trying to use the Moon energy as protection from shadow interference if he gets to far in or he's gonna use it to make a "drill" of some kind to "force his way through" into places where he shouldn't be in the Constant.

The Teleportatoes and Maxwell's Door are probably done completely through Maxwell, it makes more sense IMO.  However when it comes to the radio it could be connected to the Constant because of Wagstaff's interactions with the projector and the reel.  Either that or They can just manipulate technology in the real world whenever They feel like it, which it could be limited down to whatever is inside the Constant, which is why we only see people being brought in through the Radio and the Gramaphone, 2 pieces of tech that reside within the Constant.

Fr though we need more puzzles

[Ridley]

I don't think those questions are plotholes, I think they are just parts of the story we don't know yet.

7 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

1) If Wagstaff is all about the nightmare fuel in the lore and in the singleplayer, then how come he is so obsessed with Alter in dst? Is this just the byproduct of Klei only having like 3 characters to work with when it comes to lore (who are not survivors)? Or is there some written but unrevealed lore on how Wagstaff was attacked by the shadows and decided to change sides?

I don't think it was ever implied that Wagstaff chose the shadow or lunar side, but rather does whatever he wants in service of his own desires. He says when examining nightmare fuel, "I must find a way to return with this! It will revolutionize the world!" This shows the shadow fuel and other magics are only a stepping stone to a much more grandiose desire. 

 

7 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

2) How does his ability to project himself play into the timeline? Why is his radio the key element of freeing someone from the nightmare throne? Why don't we see tonnes more of Wagstaff's influence in the Constant? Lore-wise that guy is a walking warcrime against 'do not litter' signs so how come it is canonically only after the moonstorms that he actually starts appearing. Sure, gameplay-wise Moon Quay and the junkpiles are present day one. But when it comes to lore, these only happen after the Alter awakens

Part of this is caused by the reality of development time. The rest just hasn't been shown to us yet.

[Capybara007]

Sadly sounds like something we will never get an answer from because klei never thought about in the first place, like why did wilson had to build a machine instead of maxwell just picking him from the radio

Or why walter just got grabbed like nothing instead of doing a deal like literally everyone

[Well-met]

the only plot hole is wagstaff in winona's short.

[chincer]

im starting to think that hologram wagstaff and flesh and blood wagstaff are two different entities with their own goals, either shadows or the moon powers , a yin and yang situations, perhaps wagstaff is not at all in control of the hologram? maybe the constant try to take him and instead took just a piece of him, and now real wagstaff is trying to get it back, obsess with shadows and making portals explaining his presence in winona's animation and in solo Dont starve while the hologram is the dont starve together wagstaff?

[BalkanCockroach]

There are a lot of retcons and inconsistencies. The games story is a decade long, the story writers probably just stitch whatever they need at the time. So just turn your brain off if you wanna get immersed. 

[Anis5240]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

There are a lot of retcons and inconsistencies. The games story is a decade long

Which is kinda stupid y'know. I don't expect Klei to have this biggest big brain, but their lore story was decently consistent back in DS-era. It's when Wagstaff entered the story that it went up to flames.

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Szczuku said:

1) If Wagstaff is all about the nightmare fuel in the lore and in the singleplayer, then how come he is so obsessed with Alter in dst? Is this just the byproduct of Klei only having like 3 characters to work with when it comes to lore (who are not survivors)? Or is there some written but unrevealed lore on how Wagstaff was attacked by the shadows and decided to change sides?

Because he wants the best route to power, hes not taking sides. His quotes already prove he just wants power.

11 hours ago, Szczuku said:

) How does his ability to project himself play into the timeline? Why is his radio the key element of freeing someone from the nightmare throne? Why don't we see tonnes more of Wagstaff's influence in the Constant? Lore-wise that guy is a walking warcrime against 'do not litter' signs so how come it is canonically only after the moonstorms that he actually starts appearing. Sure, gameplay-wise Moon Quay and the junkpiles are present day one. But when it comes to lore, these only happen after the Alter awakens

You forgot he is a playable character.

[Maxposting]

11 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

why did wilson had to build a machine

I still *headcanon* Maxwell just trolling him or Them getting something from the door being open in the world. Maybe more influence on the human realm.

11 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

why walter just got grabbed like nothing instead of doing a deal like literally everyone

Winona shares some similarities with Walter when it comes to their abduction.

[marshyds]

13 hours ago, Szczuku said:

How does his ability to project himself play into the timeline? Why is his radio the key element of freeing someone from the nightmare throne? Why don't we see tonnes more of Wagstaff's influence in the Constant? Lore-wise that guy is a walking warcrime against 'do not litter' signs so how come it is canonically only after the moonstorms that he actually starts appearing. Sure, gameplay-wise Moon Quay and the junkpiles are present day one. But when it comes to lore, these only happen after the Alter awakens

Wagstaff was in hamlet, meaning he was already around for a while in the form of a projection.

He probably didin't immediately explore the constant when he got access to the film reel because it's VERY unknown and most likely VERY dangerous. This means he probably tried to prepare himself before venturing there.

13 hours ago, Szczuku said:

If Wagstaff is all about the nightmare fuel in the lore and in the singleplayer, then how come he is so obsessed with Alter in dst? Is this just the byproduct of Klei only having like 3 characters to work with when it comes to lore (who are not survivors)? Or is there some written but unrevealed lore on how Wagstaff was attacked by the shadows and decided to change sides?

I think it's fair to assume he just decided to play with lunar magic because its more hip and modern than nightmare fuel.

We only really got a good outlet to fiddle with alter's magic juice when his dandruff fell into the ocean in the form of the lunar island and altars. 

Since lunar magic is in lore and update a newer form of magic then it should probably be studied closer than nightmare fuel.

Another thing is accessibility, somehow Wanda even got some psycho juice into her clocks so that she can cheat death and Wagstaff could access it because it got stuck in a film reel.

The codex was also somehow stuck on earth while nothing related to lunar magic resided there.

A THIRD option, however...

Shadow alignments represent cocacola and lunar alignments represent pepsi, Wagstaff's preference of lunar magic is Klei subliminaly messaging us to buy pepsi!

[Capybara007]

17 hours ago, Maxposting said:

I still *headcanon* Maxwell just trolling him or Them getting something from the door being open in the world. Maybe more influence on the human realm.

A dev confirmed wilson was not the first survivor to enter the constant

[YouKnowWho]

On 5/2/2024 at 2:01 PM, Szczuku said:

Or is there some written but unrevealed lore on how Wagstaff was attacked by the shadows and decided to change sides?

This reminds me of the loose Terrorbeak from Willow’s short. Perhaps one of Wagstaff’s experiments was what set it free?

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

A dev confirmed wilson was not the first survivor to enter the constant

There are also all the skeletons and graves scattered about. Though on a similar note, I wonder if Wagstaff could be responsible for some of those. He did have an active portal to the constant, given by how he tosses WX-78 through it at the end of their short. Not saying he tossed anyone else in, but maybe an attempted expedition? It'd be a funny parallel between him and Maxwell, atleast.

[Maxposting]

7 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

A dev confirmed wilson was not the first survivor to enter the constant

Yea, so? I know Wilson is (maybe) supposed to be the last.

[grm9]

17 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

Yea, so? I know Wilson is (maybe) supposed to be the last

they probably thought that you meant that wilson making the portal allowed maxwell to appear in normal world instead of only being able to talk through radio

[goblinball]

Perhaps the shadows and nightmare stuff were simply a dead end to wagstaff or were unable to do what he wanted. In base DS, wagstaff’s quote for the nightmare throne is “I've found it! The portal that can link worlds! The throne of ultimate power!!” yet obviously we know wagstaff never uses the throne. This is because he’s not stupid; he knows if he tried to use it he’d be locked up and powerless just like maxwell and Wilson. To wagstaff, lunar magic can do everything nightmare magic can but without the limitations; remember that overuse of nightmare magic not only ruined maxwell but also ruined the ancients.

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

To wagstaff, lunar magic can do everything nightmare magic can but without the limitations; remember that overuse of nightmare magic not only ruined maxwell but also ruined the ancients.

Why, of course; lunar magic is completely harmless

[gamehun20]

1 minute ago, Szczuku said:

Why, of course; lunar magic is completely harmless

Well to living things it's harmless and things that are not plants