(My) Problem with Willow's Burning Frenzy

[splorange]

On paper, Willow's Burning Frenzy is a pretty solid ability, the extra damage buff is nice for it's cost and allows her to cut down big enemies easier. I know some people would prefer a more complex ability but I am satisfied with it and think it's fun.

However, the problem I have with this ability is swapping to a flame weapon to meet that conditional. Many players who want to use Burning Frenzy without using more embers on casting spells will need to juggle their primary weapon and a flame weapon, sometimes a cane as well. Hot swapping between three hand items is not fun and not worth the effort for the buff's extra damage (especially on high ping), this is not even considering keeping track of the buff's timer and remembering the re-apply it. Overall I'd say that utilizing Burning Frenzy makes for a surprisingly overwhelming experience for what it provides.

My Suggestion:
Make Burning Frenzy ignite enemies without a flame weapon. From my testing, this makes for a significantly more comfortable experience with the buff and I feel more inclined to use Burning Frenzy more often. It also introduces some new unique interactions like igniting Brightshade Staff projectiles, which made the ability feel a bit more whole and less restrictive.

[Gi-Go]

Buff has visual effect there is nothing to keep track of. 

[Ohan]

I like the hotkey juggling that the buff requires to be honest. It makes Willow’s combat unique and fun for me. 

I think if burning frenzy itself made u apply fire with any weapon it would become boring. 

Since embers are so dirt cheap i consider this juggling effort to be an important part of the cost of the dmg boost, to make it feel like ive actually earned it. 

[ADM]

I think it applying only smoldering on attack instead of directly setting things fire would be more fair to Combustion or direct fire weapons. So that there is a bit of delay if you're going the cheap way, while still achieving the juicy damage.

[Yuuko]

I agree the skill is fun to use as is.  Lighting enemies on fire, casting the spell to get the buff, dealing with the duration of each of these to maintain the damage boost, its all very enjoyable.  I play on PC so swapping between a few different hand items isn't a problem, idk about console players though.

The fun of using the skill isn't the problem of course, the problems are all about whether its actually worth using.

The first issue is that the damage is pretty low for the duration of the skill and the setup it requires.  Just the swap to torch to light the enemy and the time to cast the spell negates at least 3 attacks.  At only +25% damage you're next 12 attacks are just breaking even on the setup.  This presents a significant decrement on the damage multiplier making it more like +15% dps over time.

The second issue is that many bosses can't be lit on fire so the actual ability to USE the skill is minimal.  Non bosses aren't really a consideration either b/c their health is to low.  They're probably dying before you get through the setup and break even attacks, but even if you did get through them like spider queen its really not that impactful.

The third issue is that it completely and absolutely falls off in planar.  Once you get to planar weapons that +25%, which is already more like +15% due to the setup / break even hits mentioned above, gets cut in half again because damage boosts don't effect the planar part of your damage and can be cut in half AGAIN if the enemy is planar because it will resist the physical damage scaling...

So while the skill is fun mechanically unless you are absolutely min/maxing the skill is a dump.  You get more dps increase just practicing anim canceling.  imo not every skill has to be good so its okay this one sucks, it just sucks to see something so fun yet so worthless lol.

[Mr Giggio]

6 hours ago, splorange said:

swapping to a flame weapon to meet that conditional.

Fire staff is good cuz of that u don't need to move towards the enemy u just burn buff and go regular 

[KvltBear]

Ehh the problem is how difficult it is to hit enemies panicking while on fire. Combined with the ember cost with only 60 seconds I find it pretty limited. It's why I switched to the skill that buffs fire damage. That actually will fully kill on fire bees after using combustion whereas if you don't have it then you have to finish them off. Significantly easier to farm embers that way. Also, most bosses can't be lit on fire. Which is kind of weird since I believe almost all of them can be made to be wet.

[splorange]

11 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Buff has visual effect there is nothing to keep track of. 

The buff does have pretty bad visibility issues in some locations, sometimes it’s impossible to see and there’s no indication when it ends other than the FX being removed. I think a Willow giving a quote that it ended would be helpful.

(Here's a screenshot of an active buff with full sanity, you can BARELY see it)

(Insane it's completely invisible)

 

[landromat]

I also think cost is too big for one minute timer. I'd make it reset/get some time every time you hit burning target so you have opportunity to have permanent or very long 25% dmg boost for whole fight

Or just stop timer for 2s every time you hit burning target. that'll work too

Also about that buff visual: make that ring actually show time left for better management

[Yuuko]

37 minutes ago, landromat said:

I also think cost is too big for one minute timer. I'd make it reset/get some time every time you hit burning target so you have opportunity to have permanent or very long 25% dmg boost for whole fight

Or just stop timer for 2s every time you hit burning target. that'll work too

Also about that buff visual: make that ring actually show time left for better management

 

In general that would be a good QOL for it.  Have the attacks of Burning Frenzy refresh the timer for the buff and maybe even burn time on the target.  If you only had to light and cast once it would be a lot better.

Although that still wouldn't solve for the many bosses that are fire immune or planar.

[Gashzer]

Tbh the brighter lighter skills are core skills for willow because they dont just simply increase light radius of her lighter.

They also decrease the need to weapon switch from lantern to lighter, to set mobs aflame, to weapon when using burning frenzy. Functionally brighter lighter skills also reduce weapon switch time and save 1 inventory slot.

Burning frenzy is in a good place if u actually consider all of willows perks and how they interact.

[Captain_Rage]

Could be nice if allowed weapons to be heated like a Thermal Stone but for extra damage instead. Or something. The current implementation is subject to very valid problems mentioned above (in cases it would come in handy the target usually has fire immunity, it takes too much time to land hits on burning target compared to the duration of the buff, and so on). Not sure what to add. I could be tweaked, changed completely or remain as the informally mandatory "worthless" skill. xd

 

Edit:

A suggestion would be to change the skill. Make it enhance weapons, making them heatable like a Thermal Stone. Once the spell is cast on a weapon it can be heated for a moment, and then it will slowly start to cool down. The stronger it gets heated, the stronger damage boost and / or fire effect it will gain. However, after that short initial window of heating it can't be reheated, and once it cools downs it breaks. The drawback would also be that wielding a heated weapon would eventually cause overheating of the character, so it will be a trade-off of losing the weapon a while later and taking damage while getting a damage buff for said duration.

Maybe the explanation does not make much sense but it could potentially be a decent mechanic for a skill.

[flamboyant wolf]

14 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Could be nice if allowed weapons to be heated like a Thermal Stone but for extra damage instead. Or something. The current implementation is subject to very valid problems mentioned above (in cases it would come in handy the target usually has fire immunity, it takes too much time to land hits on burning target compared to the duration of the buff, and so on). Not sure what to add. I could be tweaked, changed completely or remain as the informally mandatory "worthless" skill. xd

 

Edit:

A suggestion would be to change the skill. Make it enhance weapons, making them heatable like a Thermal Stone. Once the spell is cast on a weapon it can be heated for a moment, and then it will slowly start to cool down. The stronger it gets heated, the stronger damage boost and / or fire effect it will gain. However, after that short initial window of heating it can't be reheated, and once it cools downs it breaks. The drawback would also be that wielding a heated weapon would eventually cause overheating of the character, so it will be a trade-off of losing the weapon a while later and taking damage while getting a damage buff for said duration.

Maybe the explanation does not make much sense but it could potentially be a decent mechanic for a skill.

ngl, new Willow makes me wish for the return of the obsidian spear. 

[Captain_Rage]

Oh, shoot, I wasn't aware that such an item exists in Shipwrecked. Something like that!! Ethereal Embers could be used to buff a weapon with similar a property for a few attacks or a duration (with some sort of trade-off). The currently Burning Frenzy skill looks bland on paper to begin with but in practice there are virtually no scenarios where it adds any benefit.