landromat Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) If there is more than 1 player besides willow you can't really burn enemies without burning your teammates, so Willow is barely playable in coop without wigfrid's fireproof song. We need ways to fireproof ourselves without picking wigfrid. The only fireproof item we have now is scaled armor, BUT it burns every enemy who attacked your teammate with regular fire and will drop ashes I'm fine with Scale mail being the only fireproof item but we need to do something about that fire. My suggestion is that willow's perks should work like aura, affecting any fire created nearby, so enemies who attacked your teammates using it will drop their loot and embers Edited March 28 by landromat 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-met Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 the scalemail's perk should just mimic willlow's 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) eeeh... really? How? To start with - Burning Frenzy is only a 25% damage boost, and you get about 300 damage max from the whole burn duration against bosses. Its not a great source of damage unless you're alone anyway. Even solo its often not worth it - not to mention many bosses can't be lit on fire anyway. Trash skill is trash. This is more a case of a player not recognizing when to use their tools rather than the tools being bad. Anyone can swing a torch a few times for the same bad effect right? The difference is recognizing that its bad and not doing it. If a Wicker was reading On Tentacles in a boss fight I'd just tell them to not do it, I wouldn't come to the forums and ask for On Tentacles to get nerfed. Most of the time when I use fire on bosses its because I want a light source, like on EoT. On non-bosses its to put the mob in panic, in which case just let the Willow wail away. Sometimes I use it when solo-fighting a boss, but fr 25% is so negligible considering all the work it takes, its just not worth it... Also - you don't need fireproof song. The heal song is enough to overcome 1 enemy burning. Edited March 26 by Yuuko 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 50 minutes ago, Yuuko said: eeeh... really? How? To start with - Burning Frenzy is only a 25% damage boost, and you get about 300 damage max from the whole burn duration against bosses. Its not a great source of damage unless you're alone anyway. Even solo its often not worth it - not to mention many bosses can't be lit on fire anyway. Trash skill is trash. This is more a case of a player not recognizing when to use their tools rather than the tools being bad. Anyone can swing a torch a few times for the same bad effect right? The difference is recognizing that its bad and not doing it. If a Wicker was reading On Tentacles in a boss fight I'd just tell them to not do it, I wouldn't come to the forums and ask for On Tentacles to get nerfed. Most of the time when I use fire on bosses its because I want a light source, like on EoT. On non-bosses its to put the mob in panic, in which case just let the Willow wail away. Sometimes I use it when solo-fighting a boss, but fr 25% is so negligible considering all the work it takes, its just not worth it... Also - you don't need fireproof song. The heal song is enough to overcome 1 enemy burning. I didn't ask if skill is trash or not, but thanks for your opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, landromat said: I didn't ask if skill is trash or not, but thanks for your opinion Nah, bad takes are bad. The problem is Willow using fire when she shouldn't, not the effects of fire. 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 7 minutes ago, Yuuko said: Nah, bad takes are bad. The problem is Willow using fire when she shouldn't, not the effects of fire. k 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notecja Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 When friendly fire is not so friendly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Wow fire does damage that's crazy dude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 17 hours ago, Yuuko said: Also - you don't need fireproof song. The heal song is enough to overcome 1 enemy burning. To be fair, OP is saying that a team shouldn't need a Wigfrid for fireproofing. Be it healing or literal fireproofing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 12 hours ago, chirsg said: To be fair, OP is saying that a team shouldn't need a Wigfrid for fireproofing. Be it healing or literal fireproofing No, I don't think that is really what they are saying. I believe their post is about Willow's ability to fight with others. This section might make you think they are actually talking about general fire immunity: On 3/26/2024 at 6:41 AM, landromat said: We need ways to fireproof ourselves without picking wigfrid. The only fireproof item we have now is scaled armor, BUT it burns every enemy who attacked your teammate with regular fire and will drop ashes But that is the middle of the post, and not the main focus. The post opens and ends with a focus on Willow, her viability in co-op with others, and leads to a suggestion for changes to how *Willow's fire works. They also specify this kinda hyperbolic claim. On 3/26/2024 at 6:41 AM, landromat said: If there is more than 1 player besides willow you can't really burn enemies without burning your teammates, so Willow is barely playable in coop without wigfrid's fireproof song. On 3/26/2024 at 6:41 AM, landromat said: I'm fine with Scale mail being the only fireproof item but we need to do something about that fire. My suggestion is that willow's perks should work like aura, affecting any fire created nearby, so enemies who attacked your teammates using it will drop their loot and embers My reply addresses those two things. The viability of Willow in co-op. Willow is plenty viable. Lunar Flame is still great AOE, Shadow Flame is still great burst damage, Fireball is still a great light source, and Combust is still great CC for things like Grumbles, bees, spiders, etc that you just want off you. The only skill at issue here is Burning Frenzy's requirement to light enemies on fire. A skill who's viability is suspect even playing solo lol. Willow who use this better just like the skill b/c its fun to use, as the payoff is garbage. The skill adds so little damage in co-op, especially vs planar that its worthless to bother. Willow should just not do this in co-op, it is a troll skill. Also, anyone can troll by attacking with torch a few times. Talk to the players, don't change the game. They claim you need Wig's fireproof song to enable playing with fire. This is not true. Why even address this though? B/c fireproof song is much more difficult to craft, and many Wig probably don't even do it. But really the heal song alone will cover the damage you take from fighting an enemy that is on fire. The heal song is one that Wig is very likely to craft early as it is one of their primary self/party buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 7 hours ago, Yuuko said: No, I don't think that is really what they are saying. I believe their post is about Willow's ability to fight with others. This section might make you think they are actually talking about general fire immunity: But that is the middle of the post, and not the main focus. The post opens and ends with a focus on Willow, her viability in co-op with others, and leads to a suggestion for changes to how *Willow's fire works. They also specify this kinda hyperbolic claim. My reply addresses those two things. The viability of Willow in co-op. Willow is plenty viable. Lunar Flame is still great AOE, Shadow Flame is still great burst damage, Fireball is still a great light source, and Combust is still great CC for things like Grumbles, bees, spiders, etc that you just want off you. The only skill at issue here is Burning Frenzy's requirement to light enemies on fire. A skill who's viability is suspect even playing solo lol. Willow who use this better just like the skill b/c its fun to use, as the payoff is garbage. The skill adds so little damage in co-op, especially vs planar that its worthless to bother. Willow should just not do this in co-op, it is a troll skill. Also, anyone can troll by attacking with torch a few times. Talk to the players, don't change the game. They claim you need Wig's fireproof song to enable playing with fire. This is not true. Why even address this though? B/c fireproof song is much more difficult to craft, and many Wig probably don't even do it. But really the heal song alone will cover the damage you take from fighting an enemy that is on fire. The heal song is one that Wig is very likely to craft early as it is one of their primary self/party buffs. aren't you the one who whined about klei making game less diverse in play styles and hurts players creativity by nerfing lureplants, but now you're trying to teach people how they should play because that's how you think is right? Least entitled forum user. Once again, it's none of your business if people want to burn enemies or not, the thing is that scalemail is bad fireproof item and needs couple of changes i probably should change topic name tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 47 minutes ago, landromat said: aren't you the one who whined about klei making game less diverse in play styles and hurts players creativity by nerfing lureplants, but now you're trying to teach people how they should play because that's how you think is right? Least entitled forum user. Once again, it's none of your business if people want to burn enemies or not, the thing is that scalemail is bad fireproof item and needs couple of changes i probably should change topic name tho Fire is the way it is. Burning Frenzie isn't great even solo, but certainly forgettable multiplayer. You want Wicker to read OnTentacles when you're fighting AFW with her? What do you do then? Come to forums and ask for friendly tentacles? What I want is the game to be the game. I'm not asking for lureplants to block bosses, I'm saying the did and it made for interesting things to do. Taking it away removes interesting things from the game. Fire burns people, and always has. Changing it doesn't really bring anything special to the mix. Fire farms don't require players to be immune to fire to work, and any fire farm designs that *might* can be done with scalemail. Point to something interesting you can't do b/c fire hurts you and I'll probably care - like legitimately care. Also fire damage isn't very great, unless you're Wanda you can heal through it pretty easily. Edited March 28 by Yuuko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 5 hours ago, Yuuko said: Fire is the way it is. Burning Frenzie isn't great even solo, but certainly forgettable multiplayer. You want Wicker to read OnTentacles when you're fighting AFW with her? What do you do then? Come to forums and ask for friendly tentacles? What I want is the game to be the game. I'm not asking for lureplants to block bosses, I'm saying the did and it made for interesting things to do. Taking it away removes interesting things from the game. Fire burns people, and always has. Changing it doesn't really bring anything special to the mix. Fire farms don't require players to be immune to fire to work, and any fire farm designs that *might* can be done with scalemail. Point to something interesting you can't do b/c fire hurts you and I'll probably care - like legitimately care. Also fire damage isn't very great, unless you're Wanda you can heal through it pretty easily. bruh i do not care about your opinion about fire, lureplants or anything. i want scalemail to be better. And i see you have nothing to say about that besides: "that mechanic is trash do not use it" so thanks for you opinion and have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 hours ago, landromat said: bruh i do not care about your opinion about fire, lureplants or anything. i want scalemail to be better. And i see you have nothing to say about that besides: "that mechanic is trash do not use it" so thanks for you opinion and have a nice day Is this really a request to make scalemail better? b/c that doesn't sound like what you're asking for... You were complaining about Willow lighting up enemies you were fighting, if you were wearing scalemail this wouldn't be a problem b/c you wouldn't take damage. Also your suggestion was to change Willow's fire to not burn other ppl, not to change scalemail. So what is your suggestion to change scalemail here? I'm very confused from your OP to you saying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Yuuko said: Also your suggestion was to change Willow's fire to not burn other ppl, not to change scalemail. suggestion is to make fire from scalemail same as if willow's wearing it when she's nearby so people can use fire protection armor without burning enemies to ashes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 20 minutes ago, landromat said: suggestion is to make fire from scalemail same as if willow's wearing it when she's nearby so people can use fire protection armor without burning enemies to ashes Now that you amended your post to say that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Yuuko said: Now that you amended your post to say that.. i didn't change post, just title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 i thought about another suggestion: Allow willow to upgrade scalemail to planar version so it's viable and repairable in late game for her 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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