WANDA NEEDS A SKILL TREE!!

[landromat]

Walter is definitely in first line for a skill tree. He's too weak rn

[Y0sH]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Wanda mains when "fragile" character is suddenly fragile. 

Well considering the fact that she literally gets one shotted by the big Ink Blight's pounce attack the ability to either craft or have planar defense for her specifically isn't asking for much.

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

it probably wasn't really a speedrun because wigfrid isn't optimal for any category, might've just been a showcase of the character

I just realized that you don't know the game as well as you really think. I liked knowing this about you.

But forget anything. Hugs!

[Gi-Go]

30 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I just realized that you don't know the game as well as you really think. I liked knowing this about you.

But forget anything. Hugs!

Why would you say something meaningless and passive-agressive like this?

Why not tell him what speedrun category Wigfrid is good at instead? Because I'm genuinely interested in that discussion, but what the hell am I supposed to learn from this comment? That you're the smartest? Ok. 

[Clopsy627]

9 hours ago, kroban said:

Bro the F? As a Walter main, in what world are you putting Walter and Wicker/Maxwell in the same bag? Maxwell and Wicker are basically "THE meta" right now because of how broken books are, even now that its an infinite, 0 cost mechanic because of bookshelves. Walter on the other hand is at the bottom of the barrel and most people give the "Nahh you trolling " treatment to a Walter player.

He is literally the character that would benefit the most from having a skill tree, a character full of potencial that lacks A LOT of depth, for example with his ammo and Woby. Half his problems have to do with numbers or percentages basically(speed of slingshot, low damage ammo, low hunger and speed on Woby) Most of these things can be fixed in one branch from the skill tree pretty much. And another branch could easily solve his lack of depth in the ammo, **** like that.

I can't even fathom how Wigfrid's skill tree was more urgent than Walter's honestly, she always did good in endgame, even with the planar mechanic. Although It could be that since he needs a lot of tweaks they are giving him a lot of testing etc.

I agree i played walter a couple of times and gave up before summer each time due to attack rate all i want for a walter skill tree is decent attack rate

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

Well considering the fact that she literally gets one shotted by the big Ink Blight's pounce attack the ability to either craft or have planar defense for her specifically isn't asking for much.

Well, my opinion on rasp is that instant death is AWESOME. If it was up to me, he'd devour players whole, regardless of their health or armor. Spitting out only key items and a ghost afterwards. 

[lenship2]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

Well considering the fact that she literally gets one shotted by the big Ink Blight's pounce attack

she 'literally' doesn't though:

you don't have to be old 24/7, she has high damage even while young with >112 health.

and even when old, she can tank around two rasp pounces, assuming you're wearing mostly any combination of aligned planar sets (for reference, wanda has max 38 health while old)

dreadstone body + void cowl works especially well for wanda, bc she gets boosted scythe damage and no sanity penalty

otherwise tbh kinda a skill issue, you're not supposed to tank as the supposed glass cannon character

[00petar00]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

wigfrid deals 116.875 damage per hit with ham bat and enlightened crown and wanda deals 185.3 with crown and 142.8 without

per hit but that's not dps as Wanda's weapon is slower and only deals a little bit (4%?) more damage than dark sword.

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

she 'literally' doesn't though:

you don't have to be old 24/7, she has high damage even while young with >112 health.

and even when old, she can tank around two rasp pounces, assuming you're wearing mostly any combination of aligned planar sets (for reference, wanda has max 38 health while old)

dreadstone body + void cowl works especially well for wanda, bc she gets boosted scythe damage and no sanity penalty

otherwise tbh kinda a skill issue, you're not supposed to tank as the supposed glass cannon character

That’s the problem a lot of people are running into with DST, characters have these super crazy skills & rework buffs and Skill Trees that I don’t think most people playing DST even knows what an actual “Glass Canon” character even is..

I was playing this game the other night where most characters in the game get 8 bars of Health, and do mild damage, where as the actual Glass Canon only has 1 bar of health but makes up for that with very high Damage.

In short: It’s meant to be a risky character, crazy crazy powerful, but very very weak or even no survivability against attacks.

[grm9]

16 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

per hit but that's not dps as Wanda's weapon is slower and only deals a little bit (4%?) more damage than dark sword

it's only slightly slower and it's still more and you can anim cancel using both weapons to get the same attack speed 

[00petar00]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it's only slightly slower and it's still more and you can anim cancel using both weapons 

Animation cancel shouldn't be used as a standard for balancing or comparing a weapon's damage as majority of the players don't use it.

Basically alarming clock can be compared to dark sword damage, its a little bit more and in total you should be at 70 dps or so.

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Animation cancel shouldn't be used as a standard for balancing or comparing a weapon's damage as majority of the players don't use it

it was brought up in context of speedrunning so anim cancelling makes sense

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Basically alarming clock can be compared to dark sword damage, its a little bit more and in total you should be at 70 dps or so

are you talking about using it with full hp? dark sword is around 145 dps with default damage multiplier without anim cancelling, alarming clock is definitely more even with full hp 

[Cruvimaster]

I'm sure the developers know how big a nerf Wanda got with the planar system. And I know this exactly because of the work that was done at Wolfgang and now at Wigfrid.

I think the planar system's priority was to make users abandon old weapons, but it ended up hitting some characters (Wolfgang / Wifgfrid / Wanda).

It doesn't make sense to simply deny that the nerf to Wanda wasn't heavy. There is no longer a balance between risk and benefit in this new system.

[readkey]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Walter to me is a jumbled mess of a character who has so many different pros/cons/gimmicks that he feels like some weird workshop Modded Character.

Which is Why I don’t really feel like he’s in absolute immediate need of a skill tree.

People keep saying this “Walter is a mess” argument, but Walter’s perks are basically just 2 themes: sanity and ranged attack.
 

Actually his ranged attack is also related to his sanity, so you can even say he simply has 1 major theme. 

[Retepeter]

On 3/20/2024 at 10:31 PM, 00petar00 said:

Be careful what you wish for, the characters that last received refresh got the best ones.

As Wanda main, I am hoping she is the last one to get hers for that reason because klei needs time to experiment and learn what works best so let them do it on other player's mains that want to get the benefits first but they will be less polished.

 

as true as this is, I feel like they made skilltrees partially because they're easier to change then normal character balance, as seen in scrappy scavengers they will hopefully go back to earier characters and change perks that are outdated

[Y0sH]

15 hours ago, lenship2 said:

she 'literally' doesn't though:

you don't have to be old 24/7, she has high damage even while young with >112 health.

and even when old, she can tank around two rasp pounces, assuming you're wearing mostly any combination of aligned planar sets (for reference, wanda has max 38 health while old)

dreadstone body + void cowl works especially well for wanda, bc she gets boosted scythe damage and no sanity penalty

otherwise tbh kinda a skill issue, you're not supposed to tank as the supposed glass cannon character

Every Skill tree update has had some form of protection against planar damage with the exception of Wolf but he has baked in defense already. What do you have to do to get the Void gear in the first place? Defeat the ink blights lol. The "skill issue" remark is just a lazy way of getting off the topic. Planar damage effects Wanda considerably worse than other characters glass cannon or not. Asking for Planar damage protection (whether craftable or not) in lieu of a whole skill tree is again, not asking for much, the rest of her kit is fine.

15 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Well, my opinion on rasp is that instant death is AWESOME. If it was up to me, he'd devour players whole, regardless of their health or armor. Spitting out only key items and a ghost afterwards. 

I'd actually wouldn't have an issue if this was the case across the board with every character lol

[ShadowDuelist]

I played recently with a skilled Wanda player in a very late game world, and he was doing fine against most planar threats.

His strategy mostly relied on speed (magi+cane), dread helm, and switch magi to bone armor, dealing damage anim cancelling with the alarming clock and mostly avoiding being hit as much as possible through speed, bone armor and backstep watch. Wanda in planar damage exposure just reinforces her glass cannon status since she gets 2 hitted by most stuff, but this player would just take it as a normal part of his game loop and revive with his second chance watch (we had a surplus of living logs and bone shards by then)

I’m not saying with this “Wanda is fine”, she needs a skill tree as well for sure, since playing wanda RN is very very unforgiving to tiny mistakes or lag spikes, but she still has solid tools that let you bypass some of the new threats.

Other characters that are fairly powerful in most of the game, adapt really poorly or have nothing special going for them in the post rifts world, like Wickerbottom (the most she can do is stopping acid rain, most of her books don't affect planar enemies) and Wendy (I dont think her perks adapt to the new threats at all) just to mention a few.

[Blunty_x]

I used to enjoy getting into these discussions, but in the end everyone will get a rework and it's better to theorycraft what skills she could obtain vs demand a skill tree for a survivor who overall is well off skills wise. I main Wurt and I'm sitting in my swamp patiently waiting for whatever she is gonna be given looking over my wishlist of what I would enjoy to have.

[DownloadADuck]

10 hours ago, Y0sH said:

Every Skill tree update has had some form of protection against planar damage with the exception of Wolf but he has baked in defense already. What do you have to do to get the Void gear in the first place? Defeat the ink blights lol. The "skill issue" remark is just a lazy way of getting off the topic. Planar damage effects Wanda considerably worse than other characters glass cannon or not. Asking for Planar damage protection (whether craftable or not) in lieu of a whole skill tree is again, not asking for much, the rest of her kit is fine.

I'd actually wouldn't have an issue if this was the case across the board with every character lol

why are you complaining about a glass cannon character being effected more from taking dmg than Wolfgang?

• wanda when old had a max hp of 37.5, 750 with night armor
• wolfgang when max hp and marble armor has 7000 hp
• wanda with cowl has 188 hp (208 against shadow aligned) and 10 planar
• wolfgang with cowl has 1000 hp (1111 against shadow aligned) and 10 planar

Wanda being so fragile is completely intentional.

[Yuuko]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:04 AM, Theukon-dos said:

The only things she could possibly want are a planar Alarming Clock and some resistance to DoT. By God in Heaven, that woman does NOT need a skill tree.

I think it would be cool to leave the Alarming Clock as a pre-rift item, and just lean into planar weapons + glass canon.  The range of the alarming clock was a bit too safe for a character that is supposed to be risky.  Maybe if she got a new planar weapon with less range similar to shields, or relegated to the regular planar weapons with everyone else, just gaining bonuses similar to Woflgang.

I think the void cowl + scythe combo perk would be cool on her if it wasn't already in use lol.

Maybe a new stasis clock that freezes her health timer and enhances planar damage of equipped melee weapons based on her age.  Not just young / middle / old but by year so you'd have to go all the way to 79 to get max benefit, think the first Wendy rework.  Any damage tick loses the state and puts the watch on cool down.  In this way you are kinda making a wager with her.  You could go to 79 if you have the guts.  You get truly amazing damage but any tick will kill you.  Or you lock at a lower age for a more mild bonus considering your safety.

 

On 3/21/2024 at 11:43 AM, Sacco said:

wanda has 2x range, more damage with the scythe, she is perfect as she is

Her damage with the scythe is pretty lacking.  She needs a steroid like Wolfgang.

A character with no perks Wortox vs Wanda vs Wolfgang + anti-lunar perk damage with scythe

regular target 88 [73% +32] 120 [77% +35] 155

lunar target 82 [83% +16] 98 [59% +66] 164

shadow target 75 [83% +15] 90 [75% +29] 119

Even though her numbers are higher than normal she pales in comparison to Wolfgang.  This is not fitting for her character.

I'm sure this will get added in her skill tree, and maybe you mean "she is perfect as is <presuming her skill tree adds these benefits>" 

[Y0sH]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:27 PM, DownloadADuck said:

why are you complaining about a glass cannon character being effected more from taking dmg than Wolfgang?

 I'm not, the point is that every character that has a skill tree update has some type of planar damage protection so if Wanda was to get anything like that, all I'd ask for in her kit is Planar damage protection like everyone else... It's like you read only the first sentence and missed the entire point lol.

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:40 PM, Cruvimaster said:

No problem, I saw a speedrun with Wigfrid and she destroys Wanda when she gets the Enlightened Crown. Damage to multiple enemies and high defense and combat power. There's no such thing as weak talk that "it has high damage and therefore has to be fragile".

I don't know if you know Glermz or are scared of Klei giving Wormwood a nerf. Who knows...

1st, glermz has said that wolfgang is better in combat than wormwood, and he only plays worm because its more enjoyable for him, and second, if you are gonna compare cc crown wig to wanda, give wanda a cc crown too, i promise you wanda will deal more damage even if she has to pause once in awhile to regain sanity

On 3/21/2024 at 6:04 PM, Theukon-dos said:

Actually, Wanda's a third of the reason that I think skill trees are a bad idea. The other thirds are Maxwell and Wolfgang.

 

Wanda already has damn near everything she could want. She has great damage, can teleport, can revive other players cheaply, and has great survivability; despite supposedly being a glass cannon. The only things she could possibly want are a planar Alarming Clock and some resistance to DoT. By God in Heaven, that woman does NOT need a skill tree.

I mean, she out damages bright sword with her clock, and reaper does extra shadow damage as her, so she is fine, and planar damage isn't really a problem, if you do something called kiting, most of the planner mobs either have a really easy pattern, and the ones that don't mostly do planner damage, so planner armor reduces more that enough damage, in the worse case, do narmor+planar head gear combo and you are invincible, not even mentioning kiting with a clock

On 3/22/2024 at 1:15 AM, 00petar00 said:

Animation cancel shouldn't be used as a standard for balancing or comparing a weapon's damage as majority of the players don't use it.

Basically alarming clock can be compared to dark sword damage, its a little bit more and in total you should be at 70 dps or so.

if you are young Wanda, yes, but if you don't hate yourself and want to actually enjoy the game, you are probably old, which is much  more damage than that

On 3/22/2024 at 4:21 PM, Y0sH said:

Every Skill tree update has had some form of protection against planar damage with the exception of Wolf but he has baked in defense already. What do you have to do to get the Void gear in the first place? Defeat the ink blights lol. The "skill issue" remark is just a lazy way of getting off the topic. Planar damage effects Wanda considerably worse than other characters glass cannon or not. Asking for Planar damage protection (whether craftable or not) in lieu of a whole skill tree is again, not asking for much, the rest of her kit is fine.

I'd actually wouldn't have an issue if this was the case across the board with every character lol

what? have you even played late game? ink blights and shadow trio can be decimated by a simple lunar staff and crown, and most people do cc before AFW, she is fine doing everything with her current kit, and more that 70% of all my hours are as her, trust me, she is good enough

On 3/22/2024 at 5:52 PM, ShadowDuelist said:

I played recently with a skilled Wanda player in a very late game world, and he was doing fine against most planar threats.

His strategy mostly relied on speed (magi+cane), dread helm, and switch magi to bone armor, dealing damage anim cancelling with the alarming clock and mostly avoiding being hit as much as possible through speed, bone armor and backstep watch. Wanda in planar damage exposure just reinforces her glass cannon status since she gets 2 hitted by most stuff, but this player would just take it as a normal part of his game loop and revive with his second chance watch (we had a surplus of living logs and bone shards by then)

I’m not saying with this “Wanda is fine”, she needs a skill tree as well for sure, since playing wanda RN is very very unforgiving to tiny mistakes or lag spikes, but she still has solid tools that let you bypass some of the new threats.

Other characters that are fairly powerful in most of the game, adapt really poorly or have nothing special going for them in the post rifts world, like Wickerbottom (the most she can do is stopping acid rain, most of her books don't affect planar enemies) and Wendy (I dont think her perks adapt to the new threats at all) just to mention a few.

yea that's the strat, the other way is bright staff spam against hoards, and cheeses against others if you don't enjoy the dying, brightshades, and all shadow planners are dead with a simple staff+crown, and the lunar bosses can be easily cheesed/done easily the intended way, bearger you just make tree guards kill it(if lazy), even though it takes many, many of them, clopsie is easily kited with enough speed and any heat source, and Vargs hounds are distracted by any walled food/the koala corpse, so you just move diagonally until the teh varg does its attack, then bright staff to stun and then just hold f until dead

[00petar00]

58 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

I mean, she out damages bright sword with her clock, and reaper does extra shadow damage as her, so she is fine, and planar damage isn't really a problem, if you do something called kiting, most of the planner mobs either have a really easy pattern, and the ones that don't mostly do planner damage, so planner armor reduces more that enough damage, in the worse case, do narmor+planar head gear combo and you are invincible, not even mentioning kiting with a clock

Planar damage is quite a big problem for Wanda because birghtshade sword is a better weapon to her considering you don't have to stay in old age and can be completely safe for a fight and most of the bosses with planar defense you are going to have an easier time with weapons that have planar damage. Kiting with a clock is good when it actually matters and you can get more hits in and deal more damage with less risk but with planar you are better off using planar weapons because there is much less risk and you deal around the same or more damage.

57 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

if you are young Wanda, yes, but if you don't hate yourself and want to actually enjoy the game, you are probably old, which is much  more damage than that

That is old age, have you never noticed how slow alarming clock was? Animation cancelling makes it so much better that it isn't even close because it is one of the slowest weapons with 142.8 damage.

1 hour ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

what? have you even played late game? ink blights and shadow trio can be decimated by a simple lunar staff and crown, and most people do cc before AFW, she is fine doing everything with her current kit, and more that 70% of all my hours are as her, trust me, she is good enough

She is not fine, her main benefit is alarming clock that is surpassed or comparable to planar gear when there should be a clear difference. This will probably be fixed with a skill tree to upgrade her alarming clock. If you use any other weapon you are not encouraged to play Wanda in old age so it doesn't make sense for other weapons to be better for her and alarming clock should always be the best choice.

 

Why revive an old thread though? If you want to keep discussing this you should make another thread, last reply was march 25th.

[Malfario]

I think wanda has priority skilltree wise simply because she straight up cant use her core mechanics after rifts, no matter what armor combo you have, all mutant bosses one shot you, she does okay against brightshades and inkblights but we are going to keep getting stronger enemies and i dont want to wait till next year to play wanda again.

And yes, you can play wanda in young age so you dont get one shot, but at that point why playing wanda ? since bootlegs were added teleportation is avaliable for all players on the surface and its not like you need that travelling power on the caves. and young wanda against regular bosses its better with rift gear than the alarming clock.

The problem is not that wanda got indereectly nerfed, she didnt got nerfed, she straight up got inabilitated all the things that made her unique.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

have you never noticed how slow alarming clock was?

0.534 attacks per second in comparison to 0.4667, a 14.42% difference

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

alarming clock should always be the best choice

that should ideally get changed so thule club and dark sword would be better in some scenarios

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If you use any other weapon you are not encouraged to play Wanda in old age

shadow scythe?

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

her main benefit is alarming clock

teleportation? if people would've played as wanda only for high damage, they would've played as wolfgang

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

considering you don't have to stay in old age

you aren't supposed to get hit when fighting new bosses so that isn't an issue and bone armor still works

15 minutes ago, Malfario said:

since bootlegs were added teleportation is avaliable for all players on the surface

wanda gets more than 10 teleports per 20 days and doesn't need to go onto a boat and use an oar to teleport

15 minutes ago, Malfario said:

its not like you need that travelling power on the caves

atrium/full station?

15 minutes ago, Malfario said:

all mutant bosses one shot you

when glass cannon only got glass 3 years after getting released that only applies when fighting 3 easy bosses

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Why revive an old thread though? If you want to keep discussing this you should make another thread, last reply was march 25th

what's the point? people still see it in recent activity