Tall chests max limit per slot [poll]

[Duck986]

Regarding 3-number limit - In Ultrakill, when you get about 100 mil points (or 1 bil, i don't remember), the displayed value changes to "Like, A LOT of", so it looks like "Like, A LOT of P(oints)" instead of "[number] P".

Maybe something similar could be implemented in DST, like "Quite a few [item icon]" instead of "[big-ass number] [item icon]"...

[grm9]

2 hours ago, MondayNight said:

If your habit is littering, then yes, not even an "infinite capacity" chest will change that: tidiness just isn't your thing. We don't discuss particular niche playing styles, like minimal nomad - because that simply doesn't intersect with building bases and storage. I've seen over time many types of nomads (I'm a semi-nomad as well), some using a "dumping ground" for loot, others picking what they're interested in and leaving rest of mob/boss loot on spot it dropped, others placing a boat platform and dumping everything on it, etc. There were, certainly, those making a few chests beside some research station(s) (mostly placed randomly too). All mentioned aren't the ones this change caters to and frankly I don't see the point to bringing them up. Of course someone not interested even in basic building - won't even go into the aesthetic aspect - will not care about chests being finite or infinite and whatever in between. Like I for one don't care about sailing or what happens on the ocean - I acknowledge it exists, is lacking, has issues and that's about it as a dive into such subject.

 

As absurd as it may sound, every (lobbied) change brings consequences for bulk player-base at large in various degrees. Like what happened on this lane in one of the big (if not the biggest - most number of community servers excluding CHN, active moderation, high number of players and recurrent players, etc) DST community out there, best summarized in the following picture:

This "CC/Rifts rushing" problem became so prevalent across Endless servers now even admins/moderators had to step in with new rules. And is a direct consequence of certain people lobbying for "lifting of the seasonal limiter" on it (happened), now same lobbying for early manifestation of the Celestial Orb (in process of happening). Not to mention all those rusher videos one can find online. I'm not against those existing, is a natural happening in the free marketplace of ideas, has validity. What am underling are the named consequences, as stated, for bulk player-base at large, as a potential issue (beside game design philosophy, as stated). Remains to be seen what "side effects" actual gaming will bring for "infinite capacity chests". I can speculate, based on the example I've previously gave, how they could be used for crashing servers (alongside the exacerbation of hording behavior) - for now that's solely speculation, but not without basis.

 

You may not, but Endless pubs tell another story: there isn't any community base out there that in mid-to-late game (sometimes even early game - see the rushers argument) doesn't have Stone Fruit and Banana Bushes. They're just that good and convenient. For anyone that's not Wigfrid, Banana Shakes + Polar Bin is most convenient sanity management system en large among experienced players atm.

 

1st: it goes a long way not insulting posters (see Guidelines) within your comments, even in implied format - I've noticed you over time doing quite so, especially related to Mike's interactions. I get it, "being edgy sells". But not when wanting to make pertinent, substantialized arguments - it only comes as "bratty", like a perpetually angered/jaded person. 2nd, you are factual wrong, on convenience account: Polar Bin preserves complete dishes stacks for the in-game year in fresh format, you just pop it, eat, go your merry way. Meanwhile for Wrapped Bundles you will consume stacks of Ropes in the process, depending on your wants and needs. Polar Bin purely and simple bypasses need to gather materials (Cut Grass), an aspect tied to Survival no matter how menial or trivial you may consider it. And with that, the need for Bundle Wraps on short-to-mid term, aka what is useful for most people.

 

That was part of DS's ethos. And a change of it only underlines how much DST departs from its origins once more. Remain to be seen how good that will be en large and on long term - yes, judging from how hard a lot of you posters here advocate for basically "broken Workshop mod"-type directions, probably popular (certainly in tune with most popular mods out there, in general server populace, namely "999+ inventories" for both character and storage spaces). For me the "straw that broke the camel's back" is precisely this "999-items-per-slot" and I've "voiced" my concerns. That's that. Such cases.

 

Very subjective assessment - will stop at that.

that still doesn't answer why chests are broken op if they're still not better than ground, people rush things because they want to have fun and idk how that can be detrimental considering there's no difference between having brightshades on day 1 or on day 2000, especially considering they'll add the thing that makes brightshades not infest decorative plants that you'll be able to get after FW, which most people kill before CC, idk how some people using something makes it too good, garlands won't suddenly become good if everyone will start using them, you can already make servers lag a lot by getting a lot of spiders, should they be unavailable until day 2000 too?

[MondayNight]

3 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

It is quite telling for someone arguing against this horrible, awful change to characterize the game's ethos as "incredible, time-consuming chores."

You're exaggerating. Playing "tag/follow the leader" with Bearger/Forest Walker, using followers or Weather Pains, and, certainly, having friends to help while chatting and whatnot can be fun, as fun as farming a boss in same circumstances. A matter of perspective. Depends how much you cram per time unit and what your goals are. We take the general case here, not the extreme where someone wants to "terraform" all map in shortest time possible/desirable and not willing "to do the work".

If we point at something objectively "horrible, awful" with DS, that would be the kiting, or rather how you can't cancel an action once started, unlike DST. Yet, for some peculiar reason, I don't see people complaining about that. Hmm.

 

3 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

No, it's not. The slippery slope is the cornerstone of manipulating people's fears to get one's way and more often than not becomes a literal fallacy. It would be one of the worst rhetorical devices in existence if it wasn't so damned effective.

It's so "damned effective" precisely because true for majority of cases when applied. "If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, looks like a duck, pecks like a duck" overwhelmingly chances are is ... not a mighty Eagle in disguise. When you see N elements converging towards a conclusion, most likely that is the precise case for a majority of times. And for DST ... well, I've already listed what I wanted to.

 

3 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

"I don't want to talk about how other people play, just how I and other correct people play."

Littering is littering and a DST play-style. Seen it quite so in pubs. What else could be to talk about it? If you do it in your world, "your world, your rules", and your own consequences. In pubs that equates to lag. If fleeting Survival, well, I suppose is a final "whatever" since isn't the biggest of concerns in that mode. If Endless... a whole other fish stew, how they say. Because it definitely affects global performance for server and players through time. And yes, I would prefer if people didn't do it, and played a more tidy "correct" way. Plus, if memory servers well, I believe all major DST communities out there have rules regarding littering, building a lot of spawners close together, etc - to mitigate lag. The "Rot washed by rain" is an excellent mechanic, finally added by devs to aid with server stability/overloading. Remember, is "Together" and I for one write mostly in Multiplayer/pub context.

 

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

that still doesn't answer why chests are broken op if they're still not better than ground, people rush things because they want to have fun and idk how that can be detrimental considering there's no difference between having brightshades on day 1 or on day 2000, especially considering they'll add the thing that makes brightshades not infest decorative plants that you'll be able to get after FW, which most people kill before CC, idk how some people using something makes it too good, garlands won't suddenly become good if everyone will start using them, you can already make servers lag a lot by getting a lot of spiders, should they be unavailable until day 2000 too?

I've already listed my reasons, you glossed over and asked again "Why?!". TL;DR: 1) needed amount of chests per base will dramatically decrease and with it the classic DS resource gathering curb for wood, indirectly tied to Survival (certainly you can argue that's a good thing; from my pov it shortens engagement with game's basic mechanics - again, debatable if good or bad on long run for DST "shelf life" and over-all "effort-gain-entertainment" replayability); 2) general game design philosophy and "Slippery Slope" into ridiculous Workshop Mod territory, "power creep", etc. Objectively, as a "stand-alone" change is not monumentally impactful (aside wood-gathering curb), but as "one in a row" is telling for DST future direction. Again, am just repeating what you glossed over prior.

Default servers don't have Brightshades enabled day 1. Else will begin to look like "ghost towns" since newbies/noobs/casuals deal horridly with them and their high-heavens re-spawn rates/re-infestation doesn't help one bit, in turn plummeting player retention per (Endless) server. Is not about "decorative plants" but vegetation across map: in all post-Rift pubs I played by far the biggest player killer nowadays is Brightshades/Vines. Usually 1-to-5 minutes after spawn (if not in mere seconds), most casuals are done in by aforementioned BSs and "rage-quit".

Yes, spider control in long-lived Endless pubs is another aspect stipulated in various communities rules, being precise - to not let them overpopulate or not making too many spwners in an area, especially if players frequent it. Same for Pig Homes/Merm Huts. Is not about "they shouldn't be available" but about reasonable amounts. And another argument why "mega-basing" in Endless pub environment isn't really possible, data-center specs wise - it causes game-breaking lag and ultimately crashes.

[Faintly Macabre]

15 minutes ago, MondayNight said:

It's so "damned effective" precisely because true for majority of cases when applied.

I bet your opinions on things like civil rights are awesome.

 

Edited March 6 by Faintly Macabre

[00petar00]

4 hours ago, MondayNight said:

I've already listed my reasons, you glossed over and asked again "Why?!". TL;DR: 1) needed amount of chests per base will dramatically decrease

It can't decrease needed amount of chests as it will always be 0, in a perfect world with every server being hosted on a good machine there would be no reason to make chests if it doesn't lag no matter how many items you put on the ground.

4 hours ago, MondayNight said:

classic DS resource gathering curb for wood, indirectly tied to Survival (certainly you can argue that's a good thing; from my pov it shortens engagement with game's basic mechanics - again, debatable if good or bad on long run for DST "shelf life" and over-all "effort-gain-entertainment" replayability); 2) general game design philosophy and "Slippery Slope" into ridiculous Workshop Mod territory, "power creep", etc. Objectively, as a "stand-alone" change is not monumentally impactful (aside wood-gathering curb), but as "one in a row" is telling for DST future direction. Again, am just repeating what you glossed over prior.

So players don't have to do a chore and gather so many logs to craft hundreds of chest is only something you and a few people can turn into a bad thing.

If you want to do chores or do something repeatable you can easily find a job, most players play games to have fun and storage options always been very bad in dst.

Replayability based on chores is terrible and will make me take breaks from games if not quit them sooner rather than later. 

4 hours ago, MondayNight said:

Default servers don't have Brightshades enabled day 1. Else will begin to look like "ghost towns" since newbies/noobs/casuals deal horridly with them and their high-heavens re-spawn rates/re-infestation doesn't help one bit, in turn plummeting player retention per (Endless) server. Is not about "decorative plants" but vegetation across map: in all post-Rift pubs I played by far the biggest player killer nowadays is Brightshades/Vines. Usually 1-to-5 minutes after spawn (if not in mere seconds), most casuals are done in by aforementioned BSs and "rage-quit".

Brightshades have been a massive problem since release and they are killing endless servers, it is not feasible to disable them because you can get husks reliably from them. The spawn rate is atrocious and them appearing all over the map with the only option to deal with them is to plant dragonfruit seeds at lava ponds which is not something developers intended but probably don't want to remove considering how even less people would activate rifts.

Brightshades can spawn very close to portal and they can take over the map given enough time so that you can never relax and stand in one spot while you open map or think, you need to always pay attention and it is bad even for me as experienced player when I know that nothing in the area can kill me but I still need to be more careful than usual.

Another reason endless servers die is because there is only so much you can do if you don't megabase and if someone is rushing CC, FW and making boss killing setups like catapults, varg gem and meat farm, duplicating purple gems and so on it will come a time when players have done everything they wanted.

 

Edited March 7 by 00petar00

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, MondayNight said:

1) needed amount of chests per base will dramatically decrease and with it the classic DS resource gathering curb for wood, indirectly tied to Survival (certainly you can argue that's a good thing; from my pov it shortens engagement with game's basic mechanics - again, debatable if good or bad on long run for DST "shelf life" and over-all "effort-gain-entertainment" replayability)

you can still keep using normal chests, maybe some people will because they won't like how new chests look, we also don't know when you'll be able to get them and you never needed to make chests, new chests won't remove the need to make chests because there was no need to make chests, they were mostly decorative from the start

54 minutes ago, MondayNight said:

2) general game design philosophy and "Slippery Slope" into ridiculous Workshop Mod territory, "power creep", etc. Objectively, as a "stand-alone" change is not monumentally impactful (aside wood-gathering curb), but as "one in a row" is telling for DST future direction. Again, am just repeating what you glossed over prior

i've already told you that adding an expensive ground downgrade won't make them add invincibility perk to maxwell's skill tree or something

1 hour ago, MondayNight said:

Default servers don't have Brightshades enabled day 1. Else will begin to look like "ghost towns" since newbies/noobs/casuals deal horridly with them and their high-heavens re-spawn rates/re-infestation doesn't help one bit, in turn plummeting player retention per (Endless) server. Is not about "decorative plants" but vegetation across map: in all post-Rift pubs I played by far the biggest player killer nowadays is Brightshades/Vines. Usually 1-to-5 minutes after spawn (if not in mere seconds), most casuals are done in by aforementioned BSs and "rage-quit"

why don't they just not interact with them, similarly to how they're supposed to avoid frogs and spiders?

1 hour ago, MondayNight said:

Yes, spider control in long-lived Endless pubs is another aspect stipulated in various communities rules, being precise - to not let them overpopulate or not making too many spwners in an area, especially if players frequent it. Same for Pig Homes/Merm Huts. Is not about "they shouldn't be available" but about reasonable amounts. And another argument why "mega-basing" in Endless pub environment isn't really possible, data-center specs wise - it causes game-breaking lag and ultimately crashes

either way they can just make it so items that dropped out of those chests are stacked the same way they were in the chest, but picking it up gives you a full stack with normal stack value and reduces the pile by that amount, e.g. picking up 999 rocks will give you 40 rocks and the pile will get reduced to 959 rocks

[YouKnowWho]

3 hours ago, Duck986 said:

Regarding 3-number limit - In Ultrakill, when you get about 100 mil points (or 1 bil, i don't remember), the displayed value changes to "Like, A LOT of", so it looks like "Like, A LOT of P(oints)" instead of "[number] P".

Maybe something similar could be implemented in DST, like "Quite a few [item icon]" instead of "[big-ass number] [item icon]"...

That's actually pretty funny. I'm not sure how it'd work in the icon, but I could definitely see it with the examine name tooltip

[arubaro]

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you can still keep using normal chests, maybe some people will because they won't like how new chests look

I will obviously keep using them since tall chests are really only needed for a handfull of items

[mykenception]

4 hours ago, . . . said:

I don't want to imagine what will happen to their world if they accidentally hammer or some mob breaks the chest holding more than 4-digits in items it would probably corrupt the world lol.

the items will drop in stacks, say, if you have 900 items on a tall chest then hammering it will drop 22 and a half stacks of whatever that item is if it stacked to 40