Two Minor Willow touch ups

[-Variant]

I promised myself that I'd wait till the first official update of 2024 had dropped so I could give things time to settle, and now that it's here, I'm here to share some lingering thoughts I've had stewing regarding two of Willow's skills.

I'll start with the Lighter portion which I figure everyone already expected from me.

Controlled Burning:
I still wish for a way to opt out of them that doesn't require me to spec into other skills I may not want/can't afford. I've been trying to get used to them since day 1 of the beta and I simply struggle to manage controlled burning. It still feels bad to not be able to opt into or out of them at all without some catch/cost/extra skills.
Non burning loot and 100% fire chances with fire weapons is simply the best, though. Love that.

And this one, again.
Burning Frenzy: I still am not a fan of how little this actually does. The amount of mobs that meet the criteria of both being burnable and having enough health to want to use this on feels weirdly low. It's also *only* damage, no real fun fire gimmicks.
I've seen so many suggestions for this one, with most of them either being Willow setting herself on fire to deal thorns damage, like Burning Bernie, or Willow having a way to set non-burnable targets on fire. I think both options still have potential without drastically changing the skill as-is for those who enjoy it.

I had more I was wanting to go over, but I think I'll save it for another time. I'm only really bringing up the two things that're messing with me the most. 

[MrDeepDarkmind]

its fine as it is

[Reecitz]

7 minutes ago, -Variant said:

I promised myself that I'd wait till the first official update of 2024 had dropped so I could give things time to settle, and now that it's here, I'm here to share some lingering thoughts I've had stewing regarding two of Willow's skills.

I'll start with the Lighter portion which I figure everyone already expected from me.

Controlled Burning:
I still wish for a way to opt out of them that doesn't require me to spec into other skills I may not want/can't afford. I've been trying to get used to them since day 1 of the beta and I simply struggle to manage controlled burning. It still feels bad to not be able to opt into or out of them at all without some catch/cost/extra skills.
Non burning loot and 100% fire chances with fire weapons is simply the best, though. Love that.

And this one, again.
Burning Frenzy: I still am not a fan of how little this actually does. The amount of mobs that meet the criteria of both being burnable and having enough health to want to use this on feels weirdly low. It's also *only* damage, no real fun fire gimmicks.
I've seen so many suggestions for this one, with most of them either being Willow setting herself on fire to deal thorns damage, like Burning Bernie, or Willow having a way to set non-burnable targets on fire. I think both options still have potential without drastically changing the skill as-is for those who enjoy it.

I had more I was wanting to go over, but I think I'll save it for another time. I'm only really bringing up the two things that're messing with me the most. 

Regarding Controlled Burning, here's my own thoughts:

In my opinion, without skills (aka base-kit), Willow should have 100% fire chance by default. Also, flammable loot could possibly drop burning instead of smoldering, but to compensate, not only would they burn for longer before turning to ash (or this would be tied to the Burn Duration skill, though I personally believe that should be base-kit as well along with Firefighter), but Willow also has the ability to extinguish fires in general. Then the Controlled Burning skill prevents spreading fires and making flammable loot smolder, but it'd be completely optional, detached from any other skills.

[-Variant]

17 minutes ago, MrDeepDarkmind said:

its fine as it is

It's workable as is, yeah, but I wouldn't still be on this if I didn't think it couldn't be improved a bit.
Controlled burning has some of my favorite aspects ever, it feels like a shame to be blocked out of the option to light fires that continue to spread as usual.
Make it a simple right-click action on an existing fire, something simple and optional!

[Masked Koopa]

I'd honestly rather Wigfrid get changes her tree feels like a rushed mess while Willow's is honestly pretty polished.

[-Variant]

9 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

I'd honestly rather Wigfrid get changes her tree feels like a rushed mess while Willow's is honestly pretty polished.

Both! I did say this was a minor change. There are many more things I feel both character's could use but I don't have the time/energy to go over them all again.

[Mike23Ua]

One of my favorite things in the entire world was Lilith phase walk in the original 2009 game Borderlands.

I can not express the immense amount of joy that I always got from running into a group of enemies and exploding into a massive Fireball.

I feel like Willows Spontaneous Combustion skill could had served this purpose.. Activate it, run towards enemies.. Explode.

Because the “25 second damage boost to enemies that are on fire” sucks….

But 25 seconds till you explode into a ticking time bomb.. hmm.. Lilith vibes. 

Also I’m slightly disappointed in the Bernie skill tree, there aren’t any perks to boost Willows Sanity or Warmth gained from “Cuddling” Bernie.

[GenomeSquirrel]

I’ve been setting so many fires, I’d worry more if controlled burning was reduced.

 

At the moment I can’t recall anything I miss. Not as if we got a trendy batch of charcoal based crafts.

 

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Also I’m slightly disappointed in the Bernie skill tree, there aren’t any perks to boost Willows Sanity or Warmth gained from “Cuddling” Bernie.

She has fire for sanity and warmth, I couldn’t imagine ever investing in a skill like that.

[Mike23Ua]

Just now, GenomeSquirrel said:

I’ve been setting so many fires, I’d worry more if controlled burning was reduced.

 

At the moment I can’t recall anything I miss. Not as if we got a trendy batch of charcoal based crafts.

 

She has fire for sanity and warmth, I couldn’t imagine ever investing in a skill like that.

Your missing the point, when Willow got her rework, and Bernie was added to her kit, holding Bernie in your hand will give sanity and warmth at the cost of Bernie’s Durability.

This is a core feature of Bernie.. and it’s literally why just holding it, costs it durability.

[-Variant]

14 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

I’ve been setting so many fires, I’d worry more if controlled burning was reduced.

 

At the moment I can’t recall anything I miss.

Oh I wouldn't want it to be reduced, it's nice being able to actually set fires that don't spread. I'd just like to be able to start spreading ones again! I still run into instances where I'd want my fires to spread but don't have access to other skills like Fireball. ;{

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Oh I wouldn't want it to be reduced, it's nice being able to actually set fires that don't spread. I'd just like to be able to start spreading ones again! I still run into instances where I'd want my fires to spread but don't have access to other skills like Fireball. ;{

The fireball kinda.. well to be honest, it kinda sucks- especially if your on a grass boat…

I may or may not be speaking from personal experience.

1- Fireball does spread, therefore boat goes up in flames.

2- Fireball does not stay on Boat, so your better off using willows lighter or even a standard torch.

If you could’ve set a fireball on the boat, and it NOT set fire to the boat, and it actually travel along on said boat: You could’ve used your hand slot for rowing at night instead of standing on a boat holding a lighter or torch.

Edited February 9 by Mike23Ua

[ButterStuffed]

19 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

At the moment I can’t recall anything I miss.

Lighting a Monkey Pirates ship on fire is nigh impossible as Willow with the skill. I can't think of many other significant applications of fire spread to be honest.

[GenomeSquirrel]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Your missing the point, when Willow got her rework, and Bernie was added to her kit, holding Bernie in your hand will give sanity and warmth at the cost of Bernie’s Durability.

This is a core feature of Bernie.. and it’s literally why just holding it, costs it durability.

Bernie existed prerework as a shadow distraction tool with no capacity to fight back or be equipped. I assume the equip ability existed primarily to give her a cute idle animation.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

I'd honestly rather Wigfrid get changes her tree feels like a rushed mess while Willow's is honestly pretty polished.

Thing is Wig had a kit before, so her skill tree is more light.  Willow didn't have a kit, so her skill tree is more deep

imo that is one of the biggest problems with the skill trees.  Unless Klei is going to actually involve the existing kit and turn these into a real refresh, which they've shown they won't be doing, they will all just be tacked on top of the kit.  This means very basic characters like Willow and Wormwood are going to need very deep skill trees while characters like Woodie and Wig are going to get more touch up stuff.  It makes me worry for characters like Wanda and Maxwell who, like Wolfgang really only need some "oh yeah here is your op planar stuff" and the rest is filler...

Edited February 9 by Yuuko

[Antynomity]

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Thing is Wig had a kit before, so her skill tree is more light.  Willow didn't have a kit, so her skill tree is more deep

imo that is one of the biggest problems with the skill trees.  Unless Klei is going to actually involve the existing kit and turn these into a real refresh, which they've shown they won't be doing, they will all just be tacked on top of the kit.  This means very basic characters like Willow and Wormwood are going to need very deep skill trees while characters like Woodie and Wig are going to get more touch up stuff.  It makes me worry for characters like Wanda and Maxwell who, like Wolfgang really only need some "oh yeah here is your op planar stuff" and the rest is filler...

Thats why I don't get why they added planar and commited to adding trees to all characters, outside of creating more blue balling hype for the 'late-game' and more cliffhangers.

[arubaro]

I feel like a atack boost for a character like willow doesnt fit at all. I dont mind it not being used that much, i like when we have perks that only works in some scenarios (more considering that she also has a strong follower..)

Some more fire related would be more fitting and fun

 

Agree that controlled fire can be annoying. I dont see it necessary when the only thing needed was to change how mobs set on fire spread it which was already changed with that perk. I would keep the controlled fire only for mobs 

Anyways, i have fun playing her, waaay more than before which was already a fun character 

[Yuuko]

I think Burning Frenzy is prime real estate for basically anything else to be added to her kit.  The bonus is minimal and conditional, and especially with planar becomes completely forgettable.  Its a "might as well" kinda buff that I will use, but it doesn't feel impactful at all.  Also the visual effect to know when its on is hard to see in a lot of situations.  It could really use a better indicator or a total rework into something completely different.