Planar damage is great for the game and perfectly fine... Maybe.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

16 hours ago, lenship2 said:

they already have a unique effect, and the entire point of the planar sqrt function is to specifically make lower damages have lower damage reduction against planar entities and vice versa

the halved damage would (imo) unfairly affect everything as opposed to the already implemented exponentially scaling damage reduction

planar entity protection definitely encourages planar weapons, but the equation still keeps a lot of weapons viable

Yeah I meant that the unique effect would stay as it is, sorry that wasn't communicated well. I feel like the exponential damage reduction is unnecessary. A player is not going to be using a spear against planar entities, so there's no point in trying to keep a spear's viability. On top of this, if Klei wants linear progression, then players should be encouraged to not use spears and instead use stronger, later game weapons. And like I said, 50% damage reduction is just a number that could be changed to 40% etc if it's too punishing. I just think a flat rate will make it much easier to compare weapon strengths, especially if more planar weapons are added in the future.

16 hours ago, lenship2 said:

would the planar entities do double damage against players with normal armor, or have armour negation? the current iteration of it is just simple addition; normal damage is normally effected, and planar defense gets subtracted from planar damage

also, the implications of this with dreadstone armour would make it actually ov*rpowered lol

Yeah you're right, I think planar entities doing double damage against normal armor would achieve what I want better. Dreadstone armor would also need to be reworked of course. 

13 hours ago, GimplyGoose said:

So the mechanics of planar damage being obscure is not a problem in my opinion. You don't need to understand the math that is happening behind the scene when you fight stuff with the new gear. Your health goes down slower and it takes less swings to bring down the enemies without being too powerful against threats from earlier in the game.

The hambat does less damage as it gets stale and at any particular time you may not know exactly how much damage it is dealing, but you notice when it starts to take 3 hits to kill a spider instead of 2 (or 2 instead of 1 if you are wolfgang).

I think the obscurity bothers me because of how simple it was to compare armor and weapon stats before. It's very easy to see that 85% damage reduction is better than 80%. However, comparisons like these are much harder to do with planar gear, character affinities, and gear alignments all stacked on top of each other, as well as the other perks the planar sets have gained in the past updates. Now I will admit, currently this isn't a problem because there are two sets of planar gear, so just use one for shadow and one for lunar (and leave dreadstone in the dust lol). But I worry about the future where there are more planar sets.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Planar - as a damage type - already failed.  When Klei released the first drop of this stuff it was obviously bad because it was basically a punish-only system.  You were punished for not using planar, but were not rewarded for using it.  Then they added all of the perks - extra damage, synergy bonuses, repair kits, darkness protection, boss stuns, etc.  THESE are the reasons the new equipment feels rewarding.  But none of this actually has to do with planar damage type.

If I do more damage on planar mobs with planar damage, then yes it rewards me for using it. 

 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Why would you ever choose to fight the boss without planar gear when its so absolutely superior to everything else?

Because it's fun, challenging and rewarding. That's my point of view.

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

I think its best laid out in your original interaction break down compared to mine.  You see multiple situations as "good," but what makes them good?  What does planar ADD to these?  Nothing.  You don't gain anything from using planar, you only remove a heavy nerf.

You said "remove a heavy nerf" like that's not a buff... If it's a buff then it rewards you, yeah. Planar damage rewards you for using it, now it's easier to kill planar mobs.

 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

What would have been better were more options, and more interactions based on those options. 

hmm, they did gave us more options, like the reaper.

 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Where are the clubs with slower attack speed and higher damage, spears with longer reach and lower movement, aoe damage, poison type, active dodge / block?  THESE would have been a much more welcome addition, giving us more options for player expression in how we choose to fight, reinforcing our creativity finding out which options were best for which situations with how we wanted to play.  Much better than "everyone use BS gear now b/c we'll cut your damage in half if you don't."

I agree 100% here. Klei should take a look and maybe add more creative ways to fight.

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

tbh this sounds incredibly scripted, like those ppl who tell the stories about how they stood up to a bully on the train "and everyone applauds."

This story sounds so fake.  Who fights lunar varg without having already fought BS plants and crafted the new gear?  x to doubt.

This is either made up, or a streamer hamming it up for his audience.  There is no way this is anyone's actual interaction.

Still proves my point too - Even trusting this little anecdote, this is the single time in this gamer (and his audience's) entire life playing DST where this could possibly happen.  At all points in the future they will just use BS as soon as they can, and never look back - and fr why didn't they anyway?  Higher damage, no down side, repair kits, and other synergy bonuses...  Take planar out and they're still stupid for not using it.

a 2 viewer youtube streamer that doesn't speak english, happened to come back to the game, activated rifts on stream without knowing what wagstaff was doing there, crafted 3 bs helmets cause he a noob, stumbled upon a possesed varg and came back to base to grab his gear. I watched it, I interacted and with his voice tone + face reaction and DYING some times, I can assure you it was real. 

I can even link the video where he fought him the first time if you want to.

[Yuuko]

12 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Because it's fun, challenging and rewarding. That's my point of view.

You are fighting planar bosses without planar gear?

[Swiyss]

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

You are fighting planar bosses without planar gear?

the very first time yes, per world.

very first encounter with the 3 is always without brightshade gear. I did it countless of times, and it's really hard.

It's like killing dragonfly regularly once, and then putting walls on lava pits later. same thing.

[Gooba]

Bold of you to assume i know whatever the heck a "plane are" is

[Kevinnator]

I like the mechanic. It's a way for them to not immediately bloat damage numbers like in Terraria's hardmode (not that it's a bad thing, I just don't think DST is a game that should go crazy with damage numbers). Plus, kinda the only thing they could have done when the player can already reach 95% damage reduction and easily have tons of armour around that point.

The only negative thing about it is how it doesn't interract with character perks but I feel like this is intentional 'cus of the skill trees. Skill trees can give you the option to make character perks work with planar and you might think it forces you to pick them but not really. See it as this, you can choose between skills that make the entire playthrough easier or skills that specifically make the rift content easier, an in between is possible but you can't have all of both (Wormwood kinda has that with his 2 affinity choices. Do you make Brightshade gear stronger or do you want helpers that you can summon from the start).

I've seen complaints about it being too complicated for casuals. Well today is your lucky day to get an answer from a casual that plays with a group of casuals. Here is how we see planar: planar enemies have defence and planar damage pierces that defence. Man that is so hard to understand for us filthy casuals. I know that's oversimplifying things and that calculating damage against planar enemies is annoying but we just use the target dummies if we want to know our damage.
I don't think most complaints about this really apply to casuals reaching rift content.

[grm9]

42 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

I like the mechanic. It's a way for them to not immediately bloat damage numbers like in Terraria's hardmode (not that it's a bad thing, I just don't think DST is a game that should go crazy with damage numbers). Plus, kinda the only thing they could have done when the player can already reach 95% damage reduction and easily have tons of armour around that point

there never was a need to nerf armor, some things require you to get hit and spend resources on armor to do them effectively e.g. some BQ strats and in case of everything else getting hit already isn't a good idea, nerfing armor because of people that use marble/night armor and a lot of crockpot stuff to enjoy the game less is as absurd as nerfing gunpowder

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

there never was a need to nerf armor, some things require you to get hit and spend resources on armor to do them effectively e.g. some BQ strats and in case of everything else getting hit already isn't a good idea, nerfing armor because of people that use marble/night armor and a lot of crockpot stuff to enjoy the game less is as absurd as nerfing gunpowder

Ye, the content shouldn’t be balanced arround content

Makes sense

[Capybara007]

Planar damage is boring, instead of being like literally any game ever this game needs to be different so instead of brightshade sword dealing 120 damage so i can have fun obliterating early threats like hounds i can simply do exactly what i could with a dark sword

And if you had fun using different weapons gimmicks like morning star electricity or ham bats now you have to use the options that planar weapons give you only

Only bads, no fun from being op, no fun from variety of weapons

Edited February 6 by Capybara007

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Planar damage is boring, instead of being like literally any game ever this game needs to be different so instead of brightshade sword dealing 120 damage so i can have fun obliterating early threats like hounds i can simply do exactly what i could with a dark sword

And if you had fun using different weapons gimmicks like morning star electricity or ham bats now you have to use the options that planar weapons give you only

Only bads, no fun from being op, no fun from variety of weapons

Is super fun to one shot early bosses in 99% of sandboxes. Cant wait to klei to add the super fun and inspired game loop of "reaching new zone-mine ore-craft reskinned armor with that ore-obliterate zone enemies-reach new zone-mine ore with different colour-etc-etc"

Let dst be unique instead of having boring progression and dumb difficulty.  Some people likes to have fun fighting bosses

The reason i dont build in terraria is for how boring is to one shot everything in late. Why i would bother building if there is no challenge left to distract me from building? 

Dst has practically the same difficulty level in the ruins and bosses in early days than in late. Is funnier to unlock QoL items than just the same sword but with 4837161 damage more so even a handicaped plant can play defeat them

 

Edited February 7 by arubaro

[Antynomity]

47 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Is super fun to one shot early bosses in 99% of sandboxes. Cant wait to klei to add the super fun and inspired game loop of "reaching new zone-mine ore-craft reskinned armor with that ore-obliterate zone enemies-reach new zone-mine ore with different colour-etc-etc"

Let dst be unique instead of having boring progression and dumb difficulty.  Some people likes to have fun fighting bosses

The reason i dont build in terraria is for how boring is to one shot everything in late. Why i would bother building if there is no challenge left to distract me from building? 

Dst has practically the same difficulty level in the ruins and bosses in early days than in late. Is funnier to unlock QoL items than just the same sword but with 4837161 damage more so even a handicaped plant can play defeat them

 

Yeah so that's why instead of giving us cool weapons with more damage and cool gimmicks we will get boring darksword reskins that only serve to catch you back up because of a new epic mechanic that forced you to use said boring darksword reskin.

And if you don't use that boring darksword reskin you're punished by out of nowhere having all your weaponry worse by a lot.

Edited February 7 by Antynomity
typo

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, Antynomity said:

Yeah so that's why instead of giving us cool weapons with more damage and cool gimmicks we will get boring darksword reskins that only serve to catch you back up because of a new epic mechanic that forced you to use said boring darksword reskin.

And if you don't use that boring darksword reskin you're punished by out of nowhere having all your weaponry worse by a lot.

that is a design problem, not a problem with the progression. The void weapon has a fun damage mechanic. We can get different kind of weapons with fun mechanics that are good in certain moments and we should keep having items like the bearger bin to change and make more confortable our way of playing like some kind of oven to cook stats instead one by one and stuff like that

In the rest of survival sandboxes, if you dont use the last reeskined basic sword you are punished out of nowhere

I dont get why people want DST to be like: valheim, terraria, grounded, v rising, core keeper, palmworld, enshrouded, etc

Do you really want to kill deerclops in 3 hits? Why would we keep having hound waves if we one shot them as capybara wants? Dst is not that kind of game, you have like 20 rpgs disguised as sandbox survival for such awful progression

[Yuuko]

57 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I dont get why people want DST to be like: valheim, terraria, grounded, v rising, core keeper, palmworld, enshrouded, etc

Thing is...  we don't need planar OR scaling up weapons to such crazy amounts.  The amount they already scaled up BS and Scythe are fine, if planar was removed these weapons wouldn't be blowing up early bosses much better than other weapon options - and we'd still gain comfort repair kits, 1 stack for armor / weapon / tools pretty great and while its damage is similar to dark sword it has no penalty.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Thing is...  we don't need planar OR scaling up weapons to such crazy amounts.  The amount they already scaled up BS and Scythe are fine, if planar was removed these weapons wouldn't be blowing up early bosses much better than other weapon options - and we'd still gain comfort repair kits, 1 stack for armor / weapon / tools pretty great and while its damage is similar to dark sword it has no penalty.

I know but the users i answered were asking for blowing early stuff brainded style like in rpgs...

I dont like how planar weapons and are balanced, too much benefits with low cost and no downsides... they even removed sanity drain from most void gear because BS gear dont have downside because enlightement is undercooked and attached to sanity instead of being their own bar

Edited February 7 by arubaro

[Frosty_Mentos]

It's good premise, but it's too new at the moment to tell that it's useful besides being a damage buff. Right now it for me replaces most weapons and armors or makes great combos with some to fight specific battles. But in a way, it's way too lategame of armor types we're getting, meaning current content isn't as compatible with it. It's practically just like wearing any other okay armor with extra spice to it.

[Antynomity]

22 hours ago, arubaro said:

that is a design problem, not a problem with the progression. The void weapon has a fun damage mechanic. We can get different kind of weapons with fun mechanics that are good in certain moments and we should keep having items like the bearger bin to change and make more confortable our way of playing like some kind of oven to cook stats instead one by one and stuff like that

In the rest of survival sandboxes, if you dont use the last reeskined basic sword you are punished out of nowhere

I dont get why people want DST to be like: valheim, terraria, grounded, v rising, core keeper, palmworld, enshrouded, etc

Do you really want to kill deerclops in 3 hits? Why would we keep having hound waves if we one shot them as capybara wants? Dst is not that kind of game, you have like 20 rpgs disguised as sandbox survival for such awful progression

You're literally acting like I'm asking to three shot deerclops just because you get further in the boring ahh progression than someone else. No, I'm not, and no a weapon with more damage for once in 8 YEARS wouldn't ever get close to that.

And DST is actually becoming one of those 'rest survival sandbox games that punish you for not using the latest reskin', that's literally what planar is.

Just because one of the new weapons have a cool gimmick doesn't mean it makes up for weapons like the morning star to be thrown into the trash by planar.

[arubaro]

6 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

You're literally acting like I'm asking to three shot deerclops just because you get further in the boring ahh progression than someone else. No, I'm not, and no a weapon with more damage for once in 8 YEARS wouldn't ever get close to that.

And DST is actually becoming one of those 'rest survival sandbox games that punish you for not using the latest reskin', that's literally what planar is.

Just because one of the new weapons have a cool gimmick doesn't mean it makes up for weapons like the morning star to be thrown into the trash by planar.

Morning star would be throw to the trash if they add higher damage weapons, doesnt matter if is just 90 damage

Atleast, in the current version, is still a viable version against non planar enemies 

The logic behind your complains is stunning

[Maxil20]

I still don’t really have a considerable issue with the planar mechanics ATM, other then maybe slightly adjusting the damage formula to mobs so the damage reduction effect only starts to occur once the damage on a target has exceeded 51 damage in a single hit. This would keep pre-planar weapons being useable against planar mobs as a 1X damage character, while discouraging their use if they go past that.

Otherwise, I can’t really say much that I don’t really like about the mechanic. The gear you get from it is nice, and is is noticeably helpful. I personally use the brightshade gear for consistency, but I also personally have a lot of friends who really like using the void set for the ramping damage effect, which is especially becoming more relevant when bosses can be stunned and have ample opportunities to get a lot of bonus damage from the scythe. The sword + helm can hit over 75 damage, which is actually quite a noticeable breakpoint for a lot of things as well, most notably being you can 2 shot mobs like hounds.

[cropo]

If nothing else, the planar stuff looks really cool which I appreciate. The only truly traditional armor in the game that I can think of is Thulecite armor, the rest of it is whacky hand-me-down materials like wood and grass fitted into armor. The new sets look like an actual set of armor and I love knightly bucket hats. The sword actually qualifies as a sword, without having to go insane while wielding it, while other weapons are also whacky like the amror, again besides Thulecite clubs.

I know DS has a unique whacky artstyle, but it's nice to have like..I don't know a typical set of armor and sword, and the cool shadowy armor. Makes it really feel like an endgame armor from it's sheer offness from the rest of the options although I can understand if some people don't like it clashing with the previously established artstyle.

Not sure how I feel about planar damage though, seems like a no-brainer to use BS or void armor once you get it and ignore every other weapon, planar system or not. 

[Antynomity]

48 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Morning star would be throw to the trash if they add higher damage weapons, doesnt matter if is just 90 damage

Atleast, in the current version, is still a viable version against non planar enemies 

The logic behind your complains is stunning

You're stunning with these brain-dead remarks at the end of your comments.

Moving on, if a weapon with 17 more damage which is how the weapons scale as you progress up to the dark sword did exist the morning star would still be better against the new mobs than it is right now with planar in place because the dps wouldnt be made completely redundant, instead of just being a higher damage weapon than a darksword against wet pre rift enemies.

Edited February 8 by Antynomity

[Yuuko]

9 hours ago, arubaro said:

Morning star would be throw to the trash if they add higher damage weapons, doesnt matter if is just 90 damage

Atleast, in the current version, is still a viable version against non planar enemies 

The logic behind your complains is stunning

Nah, there is plenty of dev room for new weapons and gear and morningstar is a prime example of why planar is a bad direction for the game to go in.

Lightning damage is already pretty niche because its hard to get mobs wet, but when you do the damage was great.  It was also nice for being a light source, and having its durability based on time rather than uses was cool.  This was a very unique, and tragically underutilized weapon.  More wet bosses (why isn't everything in the ocean wet?) or ways to make mobs wet would have added more use for this cool weapon rather than tossing it in the dumpster.  Same with Thul club - so cool summoning the tentacles but even when you have an enemy that stands still the rng barely makes it worth bothering with...  Just upping the tentacle damage a bit would make this a great weapon for stationary bosses and its crafting costs / restrictions certainly justify it being worth actually using. (Not to mention Thul club's GODLY skins that are basically never used b/c the weapon is trash)

Just imagine instead of planar - 

Void cowl and robe have 40% armor rating, and either piece combos with the scythe for a damage boost.  The damage boost is increased based on how low your armor protection is, so you get the biggest bonus staying at the base 40 the void set gives you.  (bone armor would count as 100% effectively removing the penalty while its proc is available)

BS helm / armor combo with Bright Sword could have just been a static 75 or 101 damage weapon that was immune to all damage mods to reward 1x characters who cleared that far.

9 hours ago, cropo said:

The new sets look like an actual set of armor and I love knightly bucket hats.

Looks awesome but ironically gives very low defense value.  imo the amount this thing actually tanks makes it "looking like real armor" feel kinda ironic lol

Edited February 8 by Yuuko

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Nah, there is plenty of dev room for new weapons and gear and morningstar is a prime example of why planar is a bad direction for the game to go in.

Lightning damage is already pretty niche because its hard to get mobs wet, but when you do the damage was great.  It was also nice for being a light source, and having its durability based on time rather than uses was cool.  This was a very unique, and tragically underutilized weapon.  More wet bosses (why isn't everything in the ocean wet?) or ways to make mobs wet would have added more use for this cool weapon rather than tossing it in the dumpster.  Same with Thul club - so cool summoning the tentacles but even when you have an enemy that stands still the rng barely makes it worth bothering with...  Just upping the tentacle damage a bit would make this a great weapon for stationary bosses and its crafting costs / restrictions certainly justify it being worth actually using.

Just imagine instead of planar - 

Void cowl and robe have 40% armor rating, and either piece combos with the scythe for a damage boost.  The damage boost is increased based on how low your armor protection is, so you get the biggest bonus staying at the base 60 the void set gives you.  (bone armor would count as 100% effectively removing the penalty while its proc is available)

BS helm / armor combo with Bright Sword could have just been a static 75 or 101 damage weapon that was immune to all damage mods to reward 1x characters who cleared that far.

Looks awesome but ironically gives very low defense value.  imo the amount this thing actually tanks makes it "looking like real armor" feel kinda ironic lol

 

5 hours ago, Antynomity said:

You're stunning with these brain-dead remarks at the end of your comments.

Moving on, if a weapon with 17 more damage which is how the weapons scale as you progress up to the dark sword did exist the morning star would still be better against the new mobs than it is right now with planar in place because the dps wouldnt be made completely redundant, instead of just being a higher damage weapon than a darksword against wet pre rift enemies.

Even if morning star wouldnt be as bad (which is still one of the best options for pre-rift content) people would complain about hambat ans dark sword being replaced for every piece of content. Or, as we already saw, we will see people complaining about why these new weapons havent atleast 100 damage to totally replace old gear

The problem is volt goat jelly and how klei listen to the "dont nerf" dumb statement.  If volt goat jelly were nerfed they could make any elemental damage (fire, electric and whatever they could add) go throw planar defenses making morning star be the same in late and early 

Also there is the batbat which now deals even less damage.

I fear they would just add planar versions of them instead of something like enchanting old gear with gleams and infused glass or something like that 

[Kevinnator]

8 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Looks awesome but ironically gives very low defense value.  imo the amount this thing actually tanks makes it "looking like real armor" feel kinda ironic lol

I personally don't mind this. I think it gives them room to make better armours in the future or give you options. Like the Dreadstone armour having more normal damage protection but less planar protection. The rift gear we can get atm can be gotten early on so it makes sense they aren't that powerful yet.

[Capybara007]

If you still want to struggle on a boss you defeated 29281628 bazillion times thats on you daw at least stop limiting my options in endgame like i want to use tail whip as bad as a weapon it is now i must use this darksword reskin

[arubaro]

10 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

If you still want to struggle on a boss you defeated 29281628 bazillion times thats on you daw at least stop limiting my options in endgame like i want to use tail whip as bad as a weapon it is now i must use this darksword reskin

And if you want to defead early enemies like if you have godmode turned on you can play terraria, grounded, v rising, palmworld, enshrouded, valheim, core keeper, smalland, starbound, conan exiles, final fantasy, the elder scroll,  pokemon or simply turn on god mode

Dst and zomboid are unique games, lets not ruin them with unispired, boring and burnt rpg mechanics. Every game with that mind of progression only shows how untalented are their developers which wanted create either sanbox but made it lineal or a rpg game without narrative, both with leveling by mining until boredom recolored ores

Gameplay peak, no wonder why the market is filled with survival sandbox games lately

Edited February 10 by arubaro