Planar damage is great for the game and perfectly fine... Maybe.

[Echsrick]

just remove the "defense against normal weapons" those planar enemies have

give the new weapons like 5 more damage points in general + what ever there effects are

now a planar weakness where opposide planar deals extra.........lets say 50 damage, so your new moon weapons doin more damage on shadows and your new shadow weapons doin more damage against the moon stuff, while alsol a same against same is a damage nerf, so using moon on moon and shadow on shadow only deals half the amount of damage it would have done on anything else

and lets just add character skill tress and there sides into it, if your skill tree choice is with the moon you automaticaly gain 10 defense from all moon alligment but do 10 more damage anything against shadows and the other way around....what ever have it alsol somehow affect pvp aswell for those who ever is out there doin that in this game...

and just have wormwood 20 defense points moon and maxwell goin to be 20 defense points for shadows because yes

that way old weaponry is still...well existing and the new stuff is the new stuff as well

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

If you still want to struggle on a boss you defeated 29281628 bazillion times thats on you daw at least stop limiting my options in endgame like i want to use tail whip as bad as a weapon it is now i must use this darksword reskin

 

33 minutes ago, arubaro said:

And if you want to defead early enemies like if you have godmode turned on you can play terraria, grounded, v rising, palmworld, enshrouded, valheim, core keeper, smalland, starbound, conan exiles, final fantasy, the elder scroll,  pokemon or simply turn on god mode

 

that made just absolutly no sense like at all i dont even know what i sould say about this

[Ryusuta]

A lot of people seem in favor of Planar damage, but I see it for what it is.This sort of thing has been added to multiple different games and it has never been a good mechanic; only adding tedium, power creep, or (usually) both.

I am 100% against Planar damage and everything it stands for.

Edited February 11 by Ryusuta

[Capybara007]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

 

Core keeper and terraria are way more than just, "get weapon, kill boss, obtain better weapon, kill better boss, repeat until its over", you can not like those games but calling the devs uncreative is crazy lmao

[PetulantPansy]

5 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

If you still want to struggle on a boss you defeated 29281628 bazillion times thats on you daw at least stop limiting my options in endgame like i want to use tail whip as bad as a weapon it is now i must use this darksword reskin

bruh just move on. The new content was going to give stronger gear and the old gear would've been obsolete regardless. These aren't exact converted numbers but they could've done:

- no planar

- increase the new mob hp's all by 20%

- give new weapons that deal 80 damage

- new mobs deal 10-20% more damage

 

And you'd have the exact same complaints. Old weapons are obsolete! Planar isn't the problem.  Further, now all those "options" in the beginning of the game are also obsolete. Don't you want to preserve that lovely optionality throughout the game?

 

 

Unless... you don't want the new content to give anything stronger than existing gear (so you'd get literal dark sword reskins anyways). That's fine, but it makes developing out new content all the more challenging.

Edited February 10 by PetulantPansy

[Yuuko]

59 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

The new content was going to give stronger gear and the old gear would've been obsolete regardless.

Why?

Why does the new content have to give stronger gear?

For the entire life span of DST until now, a pretty successful run at over 8 years...  we have not needed new content to ramp up power.

The dark sword, the glass cutter, shield of terror, hambat, beefalo - we've had a lot of things that ppl jokingly call "dark sword reskins" but do provide unique situations where each would be preferable without overlapping or power creeping successfully.

WHY did we NEED more damage now?

 

Also

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

- no planar

- give new weapons that deal 80 damage

Planar didn't stop them from putting extra damage on it anyway.  Delete planar and the new gear is already +damage over old gear.  Claims that planar stopped them from power creeping are wrong both because they have successfully added new content without power creep before and because they still added power creep anyway...

imo its indefensible.  Best we can hope is that they make it as benign as possible.  If we see a planar2 drop DST is dying.

[PetulantPansy]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Why does the new content have to give stronger gear?

For the entire life span of DST until now, a pretty successful run at over 8 years...  we have not needed new content to ramp up power.

 

Are we playing the same game lol.

Eye of the Storm - CC hat; +10 sanity, infinite light (at a certain sanity threshold)

Wanda hops into the constant

Moon Quay - reeds, cannon; reeds removed the need to ever go back to the swamp, cannon can uproot kelp just like a strident trident except you don't need to fight anything for this bp

werepig - that armor is broken op

This is not to mention all the characters refreshes along the way that made every single survivor stronger than before their rework

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

 

WHY did we NEED more damage now?

 

I never said we needed more. All I said is that planar damage isn't to blame for the issues people want to attribute to planar damage. 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

 

Planar didn't stop them from putting extra damage on it anyway.  Delete planar and the new gear is already +damage over old gear.  Claims that planar stopped them from power creeping are wrong both because they have successfully added new content without power creep before and because they still added power creep anyway...

yes, but only under certain circumstances. Thing is, you can only add so much new gear with just new features. At a certain point, you're just going to get diminishing returns. 

 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Best we can hope is that they make it as benign as possible.  If we see a planar2 drop DST is dying.

Rest assured, planar1 is no where near finished. 

[Capybara007]

I never really liked that a ham bat that most would craft really early can be as good as a darksword, i dont see how dst being "the same as" other games is bad, sure it is different, but you cant do things differently and expect it to be good

Like i said planar damage brings nothing, even if you dont like killing hounds in 1 hit or whatever, at least the game could bother in not limiting my options in lategame

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Core keeper and terraria are way more than just, "get weapon, kill boss, obtain better weapon, kill better boss, repeat until its over", you can not like those games but calling the devs uncreative is crazy lmao

Terraria ones are creative. Core keeper... they need to improve and add many things to be considered a good game

1 minute ago, Capybara007 said:

Like i said planar damage brings nothing, even if you dont like killing hounds in 1 hit or whatever, at least the game could bother in not limiting my options in lategame

But rpg progression is what limits your options in late game. You would just pick the higher tier weapon for everything. You can still use old weapons to kill old enemies instead of just using "titanium sword"

Planar, even if i think is unnecessary, brings progression without making everything obsolete and dropping the difficulty to baby like mode.

Dst isnt like other sandboxes, here equipment breaks so you need to repeat fights (and not repeating the fights because of abusurd rng on boss loot drops...). Wont make sense to kill BQ in 5 hits to get more crowns and jelly...

[Capybara007]

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

But rpg progression is what limits your options in late game.

This is objectively false, in literally any rpg game you start with few options but as you progress you get plenty of tools to work with. In terraria you have some swords for melee, bows for range and almost no option for mage or summon. On the early game, kill eoc and you get a bunch of new weapons and armor to craft, kill wall of flesh, same story

Dst does add new stuff, the bombs or the staff, this is good, its fun, but if you are not gonna let me obliberate hounds or early bosses then keep letting me use my early gear in the lategame like dst has always allowed me to

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

You would just pick the higher tier weapon for everything. You can still use old weapons to kill old enemies instead of just using "titanium sword"

Planar, even if i think is unnecessary, brings progression without making everything obsolete and dropping the difficulty to baby like mode.

Stop implying that you can still use non planar gear on lategame because planar mechanics are literally made to make these early items worse, if you say that i can still use a hambat to kill mutated bearger then i can say killing moonlord with a copper sword is viable

Edited February 10 by Capybara007

[arubaro]

38 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

This is objectively false, in literally any rpg game you start with few options but as you progress you get plenty of tools to work with. In terraria you have some swords for melee, bows for range and almost no option for mage or summon. On the early game, kill eoc and you get a bunch of new weapons and armor to craft, kill wall of flesh, same story

Until you drop the game of boredoom because you cant die for having top tier gear

38 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Dst does add new stuff, the bombs or the staff, this is good, its fun, but if you are not gonna let me obliberate hounds or early bosses then keep letting me use my early gear in the lategame like dst has always allowed me to

4 hours ago, arubaro said:

You are saying it. In late we have more options. We start with spear and hambat, go for glass cutter, batbat, thulecite club, dark sword and ice staff. In late we have all of that plus the void weapons. Dst isnt like terraria, dst has more mechanics and things going on. Terraria is basically fighting and exploring...and fighting most of the time is poorly implemented but compensates with tons of weapons 

Again, what is the point of having useful refight bosses and hound waves if you obliterate them??? You have other sources of lazy, fast and easy sources of dopamine

Also we have things like skill trees and celestial portal, adding also dumb weapons would only make this game a piece of sh*t

38 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Stop implying that you can still use non planar gear on lategame because planar mechanics are literally made to make these early items worse, if you say that i can still use a hambat to kill mutated bearger then i can say killing moonlord with a copper sword is viable

Who is saying that??? Learn to read. You can use old equipment to fight old bosses and mobs

You dont pick the tier5 sword to 2 shot BQ. You can choose rift gear to have more damage but less protection or pick dark sword/hambat/morning star plus thulecite/marble/night armor for a more protective combination

The only thing that limits our choices is fighting planar bosses without planar weapons and still,  using a hambat vs armored bearger is better than dealing 1hp to moonlord with a silver sword....atleast is viable to use non planar weapons against them, is just dumb because planar weapons are also cheap.

Nothing forces you to use bone armor and dark sword in your daily fights and pick planar gear when you fight optional bosses like possesed varg, crystal deerclops or armored bearger. For the moment there are one 2 daily planar enemies which are really weak: BS and possesed frogs

 

If you want to obliterate stuff make a goat farm and bring with you the st*pid volt goat jelly that bring all these troubles and unnecessary mechanics

Edited February 10 by arubaro

[Capybara007]

Arubaro have you ever played dst

[arubaro]

6 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Arubaro have you ever played dst

More than you for sure. Did you?

Not only i played a lot but i also play with higher damage deal to players to appreciate even more things like marble armor and night armor. With that setting rift armors arent that good agaisnt old mobs and bosses, most of the time i dont clean the ruins using rift gear.

I dont explain this to you since clearly you dont want and you dont know how to have an argument but for those who want to take the most advantage of every piece of content

Pd. Nice counter point. Seems like you know how to defend your ideas and opinion.

Edited February 10 by arubaro

[Echsrick]

i dont see the problem with having options to have your old things still work against new stuff, and what if the new weapons deal 10 more damage then a dark sword? its not the end of the world like please

[Swiyss]

I really like how non planar weapons deal low damage to planar enemies. It is challenging.

On another note, I would love more advanced planar weapons that mimics things like bat bat, morning star, tail three o cats, dark swords, hambats etc.. however these weapons should not be stronger than brightshade stuff unless they are boss drops from super hard bosses (27k hp planar boss with 3 attacks per cycle).

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I really like how non planar weapons deal low damage to planar enemies. It is challenging.

On another note, I would love more advanced planar weapons that mimics things like bat bat, morning star, tail three o cats, dark swords, hambats etc.. however these weapons should not be stronger than brightshade stuff unless they are boss drops from super hard bosses (27k hp planar boss with 3 attacks per cycle).

I really don't like the idea of weapons being tied to boss drops at all.  It takes away all of the survival, sandbox feel of a game that you just string together a crusade of bosses for power.  At least CC and AFW were end game bosses giving you uber-comfort items for completing their quest lines, we really DON'T need to keep that pattern going like this is some mmo or jrpg...  nmwp giving dreadstone is a bit suspect, and the zombosses giving WARBIS too.  tbh the whole "new end game" is suspect for that.  Its really killing the open world survival vibe that rewards creativity and weighing tech priorities that DST has always had.

Oh new boss has new OP weapon?  I lose interest in that garbage fast.  Its why I drop games like CotL and Terraria so quick.

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I really don't like the idea of weapons being tied to boss drops at all.  It takes away all of the survival, sandbox feel of a game that you just string together a crusade of bosses for power.  At least CC and AFW were end game bosses giving you uber-comfort items for completing their quest lines, we really DON'T need to keep that pattern going like this is some mmo or jrpg...  nmwp giving dreadstone is a bit suspect, and the zombosses giving WARBIS too.  tbh the whole "new end game" is suspect for that.  Its really killing the open world survival vibe that rewards creativity and weighing tech priorities that DST has always had.

Oh new boss has new OP weapon?  I lose interest in that garbage fast.  Its why I drop games like CotL and Terraria so quick.

Ok but why critique it if they're not going to change that. Better to accept that the game is turning into an rpg and move on.

[Reecitz]

17 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I really don't like the idea of weapons being tied to boss drops at all.  It takes away all of the survival, sandbox feel of a game that you just string together a crusade of bosses for power.  At least CC and AFW were end game bosses giving you uber-comfort items for completing their quest lines, we really DON'T need to keep that pattern going like this is some mmo or jrpg...  nmwp giving dreadstone is a bit suspect, and the zombosses giving WARBIS too.  tbh the whole "new end game" is suspect for that.  Its really killing the open world survival vibe that rewards creativity and weighing tech priorities that DST has always had.

Oh new boss has new OP weapon?  I lose interest in that garbage fast.  Its why I drop games like CotL and Terraria so quick.

Terraria sure, but you are factually incorrect about Cult of the Lamb. 

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

Ok but why critique it if they're not going to change that. Better to accept that the game is turning into an rpg and move on.

b/c after 3k hours of DST it would be a shame to quit playing.

52 minutes ago, Reecitz said:

Terraria sure, but you are factually incorrect about Cult of the Lamb. 

CotL isn't exactly "beat boss get stronger" but it is rpg style progression.  Every time you die you get stronger to go back, and that spoils the joy of that type of game for me.  Did I beat a boss because I actually improved?  Or did I just scale up?  Say I died on a boss but I was really close to defeating it and I return to town and unlock +health or +damage, now I go back and do literally as well as I did before - no improvement from me what so ever - and I win...  I don't like that.

What I want is an open world with a plethora of tools and pathways to explore the game, and techs to unlock, and for it to be up to me to decide which I need and how to tackle the challenges.  The most fun part of DST is deciding how to approach the early game, and how that leads into mid and late game.  The fact that the boss fight is the same no matter when or how I approach it, and knowing I can try to approach it earlier with different gear if I see a reason to.  All of the post-cc nonsense has absolutely nothing as fun and fulfilling as deciding which time is the right time to hit the ruins, defeat a certain boss, or gather some resources.

Ultimately this is what makes the ocean so bad - it has nothing that persuades a player to venture that way instead of into the caves.

Edited February 10 by Yuuko

[Reecitz]

47 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

b/c after 3k hours of DST it would be a shame to quit playing.

CotL isn't exactly "beat boss get stronger" but it is rpg style progression.  Every time you die you get stronger to go back, and that spoils the joy of that type of game for me.  Did I beat a boss because I actually improved?  Or did I just scale up?  Say I died on a boss but I was really close to defeating it and I return to town and unlock +health or +damage, now I go back and do literally as well as I did before - no improvement from me what so ever - and I win...  I don't like that.

What I want is an open world with a plethora of tools and pathways to explore the game, and techs to unlock, and for it to be up to me to decide which I need and how to tackle the challenges.  The most fun part of DST is deciding how to approach the early game, and how that leads into mid and late game.  The fact that the boss fight is the same no matter when or how I approach it, and knowing I can try to approach it earlier with different gear if I see a reason to.  All of the post-cc nonsense has absolutely nothing as fun and fulfilling as deciding which time is the right time to hit the ruins, defeat a certain boss, or gather some resources.

Ultimately this is what makes the ocean so bad - it has nothing that persuades a player to venture that way instead of into the caves.

I see.

Well, I do agree that the game could use a little more customization and versatility, especially when it comes to combat. As I said once before, pieces of potential already exist here and there, but they haven't been fully utilized yet. I could be the only one, but sometimes I want to use something as a weapon because it looks cool, or I have a cool skin for it, but it's simply not reliable as a weapon. Even it having a unique quirk to aid it in combat besides more damage would be appreciated, though I'm also aware that some items simply can't be used as weapons. 

I thought about how it'd play out if some system to enchant/modify existing equipment with various attributes was added, you know, for some real customization, though maybe I'm overlooking something that might make it problematic. But who knows, shadow rift content is currently lacking in comparison to lunar, so maybe they'd add it there, or perhaps somewhere pre-rift for a change. For now though, I'll just hope a modder can help me out.

Edited February 10 by Reecitz

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I really like how non planar weapons deal low damage to planar enemies. It is challenging.

On another note, I would love more advanced planar weapons that mimics things like bat bat, morning star, tail three o cats, dark swords, hambats etc.. however these weapons should not be stronger than brightshade stuff unless they are boss drops from super hard bosses (27k hp planar boss with 3 attacks per cycle).

I dont really like the idea of adding planar clones of old weapons. I prefer if could infuse old armor and weapons to give them few planar stats while making underused ingredients like gleams, glass, husks, moonrock and infused glass useful

[Ryusuta]

8 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I really like how non planar weapons deal low damage to planar enemies. It is challenging.

On another note, I would love more advanced planar weapons that mimics things like bat bat, morning star, tail three o cats, dark swords, hambats etc.. however these weapons should not be stronger than brightshade stuff unless they are boss drops from super hard bosses (27k hp planar boss with 3 attacks per cycle).

It's NOT challenging; that's the thing. It's busywork.

Anyone can just... make a normal mob and then make it take like 50 extra hits to kill unless you use a specific weapon. That's not clever, it's not unique; it's changing a couple of numbers on a stat sheet.

Yes, it's "harder" in that you have to sit there holding F for longer and watching out for attacks, but are damage sponges really the type of "challenge" we're looking for?

[Swiyss]

3 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

It's NOT challenging; that's the thing. It's busywork.

Anyone can just... make a normal mob and then make it take like 50 extra hits to kill unless you use a specific weapon. That's not clever, it's not unique; it's changing a couple of numbers on a stat sheet.

Yes, it's "harder" in that you have to sit there holding F for longer and watching out for attacks, but are damage sponges really the type of "challenge" we're looking for?

Seriously?

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

It's NOT challenging; that's the thing. It's busywork.

Anyone can just... make a normal mob and then make it take like 50 extra hits to kill unless you use a specific weapon. That's not clever, it's not unique; it's changing a couple of numbers on a stat sheet.

Yes, it's "harder" in that you have to sit there holding F for longer and watching out for attacks, but are damage sponges really the type of "challenge" we're looking for?

And for that rpg progression sucks

[Echsrick]

10 hours ago, arubaro said:

And for that rpg progression sucks

tell that to all the rpgs and games with rpg elements goin to be released this year or have allready

[Trips]

On 2/9/2024 at 10:10 PM, Yuuko said:

Why?

Why does the new content have to give stronger gear?

For the entire life span of DST until now, a pretty successful run at over 8 years...  we have not needed new content to ramp up power.

The dark sword, the glass cutter, shield of terror, hambat, beefalo - we've had a lot of things that ppl jokingly call "dark sword reskins" but do provide unique situations where each would be preferable without overlapping or power creeping successfully.

WHY did we NEED more damage now?

 

Also

Planar didn't stop them from putting extra damage on it anyway.  Delete planar and the new gear is already +damage over old gear.  Claims that planar stopped them from power creeping are wrong both because they have successfully added new content without power creep before and because they still added power creep anyway...

imo its indefensible.  Best we can hope is that they make it as benign as possible.  If we see a planar2 drop DST is dying.

If I'm allowed to inject some of my cynicism into the Klei Forums before I disappear until the next major update, the new RPG-y direction of DST most likely coincides with the majority stake acquisition by Tencent and pushing the game into a more marketable live service model. Granted, I personally am a fan of skill trees and gear progression.. Terraria is my most played singleplayer(fundamentally, at least) game, after all. 

The damage increases from vanilla to planar weapons are pretty subtle assuming you're comparing it on vanilla enemies. The Brightshade sword deals like 10% more damage than the Dark Sword, provided you have the armor, right?

Also, stuff like Warly's damage dishes were probably designed with planar damage in consideration down the line, so that players won't have that baseline Ten Quadrillion% multiplier going into every fight.. the extra regular damage is still useful, but won't turn a planar boss into a Treeguard, which I think is fine.
(I also personally don't like the idea of building 20 bunny hutches for the Bee Queen fight when having a singular extra player makes the fight ten times as easier... so it'd be nice if bosses going forward were designed to be fought "fairly" instead of requiring gargantuan prep time)