We need a combat overhaul and new QoL on old stuff.

[Swiyss]

Some great combat mechanics are locked behind some characters :

wormwood third-hit spikes, wigfrid DASH and block, willow and maxwell spells etc..

if the focus is in the characters, then each one could have :

Area of Effect damage, Damage block, Skill evasion (dash/tumble), 3 or more attacks (eg. basic attack, lunge attack, throwing spears, slash attack) and ranged attacks.

Everyone would get a piece of the cake.

So because of that we may need some "combat" divisions. Like a real RPG.

If wigfrid can dash with her spear but also effectively use howlitzer and brightshade sword, then she essentially will skip weapons over and over instead of each one being situational like a "hambat vs darksword" thing. Same thing would fix the beefalo case where the game simply doesn't work like that, dropping from beef and fighting is 10x better.

I think the game combat needs a big overhaul. Currently the skill trees don't fix that (they could) and locking special abilities behind skill trees is omega boring.

Imagine a system like this :

Eg. everyone can craft a bramble husk, but only wormwood can use the third-hit bonus damage. To craft one you would need wormwood to lend you a blueprint via cartographers desk. If you changed characters, you would learn the crafts forever.

Everyone can use the thing, but only the character that made the thing can have its full potential. Solo players would only need to switch characters once and there is no reason why wilson wouldn't know how to build a winona machine or write wickerbottoms books realistically if he has blueprints (still wickerbottom and maxwell would be the only ones who can read the books). And wilson can already use her machines.

But simply changing that wouldn't fix the issue, it would only bring more issues. The survivors wouldn't be unique anymore. To fix that comes a skill tree. Also, some things would get fixed (like the fact that the whole winona identity and character is just 'catapults' and thats it, or warly being essentially a swap out character).

I think every single skill tree should be divided into combat, gathering, character specific traits and affinities.

Every survivor would choose between doing more damage ranged or melee, summons or machines.

Imagine if critters were summons that influenced combat slighty, but you would have to feed them to be active. And a dedicated skill tree for them to aid you in fights (healing, small damage boosts, small movement perks).

Imagine a warbis type machine on early game. You would be able to set "turrets" all over your base to protect from enemies. Of course these would be thematically correct (not machine guns or ww2 equipment)

You would still be able to use both, but be stronger in only one of them.

Make ranged alternatives more accessible and more unique.

Why am I forced to fight melee all the time? I mean I could theoretically only use walter slingshot for a full run, but the game doesn't encourage me to do so, same thing for blowdarts. That limits replayability AND creativity.

Trust me Klei, your game has an insane potential, we just need a few things here and there. I really hope this year we can end the skill trees and focus on fixing current issues and problems and adressing some fun gameplay situations instead of pouring out half-baked content.

I think the game needs a combat overhaul; skill tree rework; early,  mid and late game clear separations; character creativity (different ways to play the same character encouraged by the system); map overhaul; pigmen and pig king interaction system overhaul; new biomes and etc..

If you diagree or have any opinions to add please share them here.

Game combat feels like it's still in beta. World map edges feels like it's still in beta. We try to hide those things behind big contents without adressing these issues.

The game IS fun, but it could be way better, and seeing them add combat only for some characters feels wrong.

Klei, Palworld worked because they did what the public wanted without losing the game's identity. And I think you guys can do that too. I have high hopes for DST.

Edited February 1 by Swiyss

[zhangsheng]

DST is not purely a battle game, and the issue you raised involves the underlying logic of DST. This is almost impossible to achieve unless it is made into a new game.

[Kwaik]

This games 11 years into its lifecycle, it doesn't make sense to compare it to palworld or to reinvent the wheel. 

 

Making the combat more interesting makes sense, and crafting and the skill trees are going to be the way to do that. 

 

Honestly adding some new weapons, and potentially adding another equitable slot is more than enoguh to radically transform this game. 

[ryukamiya]

The Bramble Husk is Wormwood's exclusive craft.
If you really want to use that armor, I think you should use Wormwood.
I play Wormwood a lot, but I don't feel like making special crafts for other characters.
If there are no dedicated crafts, there will be no merit, right?

[Swiyss]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:05 AM, zhangsheng said:

DST is not purely a battle game, and the issue you raised involves the underlying logic of DST. This is almost impossible to achieve unless it is made into a new game.

I don't think it's impossible. There is so many ways they can improve the game.

23 hours ago, Kwaik said:

This games 11 years into its lifecycle, it doesn't make sense to compare it to palworld or to reinvent the wheel. 

 

Making the combat more interesting makes sense, and crafting and the skill trees are going to be the way to do that. 

 

Honestly adding some new weapons, and potentially adding another equitable slot is more than enoguh to radically transform this game. 

I know it might seem like I'm comparing both games, but I just used it as an example of a good combat mechanic. I know dst is from ages ago, but we have games from way before that have way better combat mechanics, and I think that combat is a very core important mechanic in dst.

19 hours ago, ryukamiya said:

The Bramble Husk is Wormwood's exclusive craft.
If you really want to use that armor, I think you should use Wormwood.
I play Wormwood a lot, but I don't feel like making special crafts for other characters.
If there are no dedicated crafts, there will be no merit, right?

This is not the only thing tho, it was just an exemple. I play a lot of wormwood myself too, but I think we should be able to share blueprints for unique craftings. If Klei buffs the bramble husk on wormwood or nerf it on players other than wormwood while simultaneously making them able to craft it too then the addition would feel nicer. The item would still be unique to him since he's better at it but also great on others and that would elevate combat, also we would need a wormwood to handle it at the first place so yeah he's making his part. If it also worked for wigfrid they could make the game feel great to play solo and using the portal.

[arubaro]

If they add more aoe atacks, special stscks for weapons or spells then enemies should be highly buffed

Is already easy and simple to kill hordes of enemies and most basic bosses with hambat and log suit, adding too much of stuff like abigail, lighting spear or combustion spell would make the game feel like a free chinese mmrpg/arpg like lost ark or kenshing impact

[Mike23Ua]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:05 PM, zhangsheng said:

DST is not purely a battle game, and the issue you raised involves the underlying logic of DST. This is almost impossible to achieve unless it is made into a new game.

DST may not be purely a battle game, but it does have a lot of combat options, there’s several weapons and armors to choose from that grow with each game update,  they add new bosses or dangers (ink blight trio) that requiring using said weapons and armors.

So it is just as much a combat game as it is anything else.

And I don’t feel like Klei plans to make a new game anytime soon since we have the skill trees that are still ongoing in DST.

I think they have plenty of ideas that have yet to be revealed, this years roadmap says we will get 4 large updates.. I'm going to eagerly look forward to those 4 large updates, I got a feeling that we’ve barely scratched the surface of Klei’s overall intended goals for what they want with the game.

An actual fun combat overhaul, both in terms of what the characters can do, and in terms of how mobs/bosses interact with us doesn’t seem off the table.

I can guarantee you we won’t be waiting for a new game, before Klei starts dabbling around with & testing & implementing some of these mechanics.

 

[Wonz]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:05 AM, zhangsheng said:

DST is not purely a battle game, and the issue you raised involves the underlying logic of DST. This is almost impossible to achieve unless it is made into a new game.

Not purely but feels like the commonly fun part is mostly it and it's not as developed as farming for example. So combat is perfect place to put some effort in.

[Gotheran]

DST has obviously gone its own way, combat was never a primary focus of the original game, there were certainly additional tools and ways to go about it but Deerclops wasn't added to be a big boss fight per se and more of a deterrent to turtling in your base all winter, his primary function is to attack your structures and the best ways to deal with him usually involve getting him to fight something else like treeguards or rock lobsters, not that you can't fight him head on especially with a character like Wolfgang who was intended to be easier for direct combat encounters.

But the greatest fallacy in gaming is the idea that players need combat to be engaged with a game, and so instead of dreaming up alternative systems or solutions to existing content or adding new ideas that could add some extra magic to a playthrough it defaults to, add new bosses, add new combat mechanics, add skill trees, etc.

The reason people upset with the current direction keep going back to reap what you sow is how well developed the system is and how it revitalized a previously tedious and probably underutilized part of the game, how engaging it is and how it had nothing to really do with combat, sure they had to squeeze in a mini-boss along with everything and it could stand to have even more constricted spawn conditions so it isn't a constant harassment but overall it was a major improvement. There are many aspects of the game that beg for that kind of overhaul that aren't combat related such as wildfires or ocean exploration, ruins and caves despite the improvements from solo could still use more love, the rifts content highlighted how many tools have so few alternatives such as hammers or bug nets which leads into even things like weapons and why anyone would bother with blowdarts when you get one dart per tooth when you could just make a tooth trap and get more potential damage from the same amount of resources, lots of items have minimal use because they either break too fast or are outpaced by alternative methods.

[Well-met]

kiting is fine.

[SpookyXy]

I thought this was satire but everyone is taking it so seriously that i'm not sure.

[twitchgabo]

I would love to see an utility for having pets.

also, I would love a complete rework on almost all items in the magic tab. Most of them are kinda underwhelming despite ice staff, dark sword and pan flute.

 

a fire staff should be able to fully fuel a fire pit, for example. We could also have  a kind of bag with “sockets” for amulets or something of the sort.

There are so many things to explore with the items that already exist

[Yukanur]

combat mechanic like cult of the lamb might fit DST

[KrazJoe]

Combat system is pretty much what stopping some people I know playing DST.

The new Wigfrid spear skill is close to an alternative battle system.

I would just love to have one new item that default attack is similar to that skill. But very short to no travel with the attack. AOE is kinda a double edge as you may not always want to hit everything, and attack speed could be slower for balance.

A weapon that is close to the fencing sword. Require spear to craft. So semi new battle option while using existing mechanics.

 

[Swiyss]

On 3/4/2024 at 12:35 PM, KrazJoe said:

Combat system is pretty much what stopping some people I know playing DST.

The new Wigfrid spear skill is close to an alternative battle system.

I would just love to have one new item that default attack is similar to that skill. But very short to no travel with the attack. AOE is kinda a double edge as you may not always want to hit everything, and attack speed could be slower for balance.

A weapon that is close to the fencing sword. Require spear to craft. So semi new battle option while using existing mechanics.

 

I would love some changes to the spear, so it shines in its own area.

Not only the spear, but other weapons too. If the hambat could get something cool going on with it or the glass cutter, we would have more situations where those could be used aside from the small features they currently have.

More intuitive dodging.

More areas to hit bosses to stun them.

Better ways to make them interact with you.

I feel like the scrappy werepig would love some touches also. If I could add anything to it, it would be making the arena participate more in the fight. Like picking trash up from the piles and throwing at him while he's scavenging for weapons for a free damage.

Imagine if throwing a big pile of trash did a lot of damage, more than it does by simply attacking him, but the animation is slow and can only be effective at perfect timing.

Even if it would make the fight staged a bit, it would atleast be a bit better than it currently is.

[Mike23Ua]

The Too Long Did Not Read is down at the bottom please scroll there if you don’t want to read this text book post.

I grew very bored of DST so I started seeking entertainment elsewhere, and in my search I found a RogueLite on IoS/Android devices called Guidus, the funny thing about this little game is it reminds me so so sooo much of DS/DST, like it literally even has frog mobs who attempt to “lick” you.

But the combat for the game (outside of a handful of character specific special abilities) is the same as DST.. you step forward and hit the enemy a few times, then “Dodge” by stepping backward from its attack (in this case familiar frog licking activity) This Mobile game is a prime example that the “simple” combat mechanics of DST don’t need to be drastically overhauled.

What makes combat in Guidus unique isn’t the very simple to fight/dodge mobs, but rather.. EVERYTHING ELSE That’s going on in Addition to those easy to step in, hit a few times, and step away from to dodge attacks. 

Things such as the floor tiles you or the enemies step onto breaking away and falling, arrow, spike, saw blade traps with various speeds, “Icey” turf that causes the player to slip uncontrollable towards or away from the enemy mobs.

Theres a Minecraft-like mob spawner that will continuously spawn mobs from it until destroyed.

(similar to hound dens except more variety in enemy mob that spawns from it)

Some of the bosses have unique mechanics such as needing to focus on an object the boss spawns instead of EVER attempting to directly fight the boss.

Hell there’s even a plant in this little mobile game (at first I thought it was a chicken, lol..) that resembles the Deadly Brightshades.

The plant in “Guidus” will cause a caution sign to show up on the floor under or near the player, before a deadly vine shoots upward to deal damage to them.

But what makes this a far more interesting experience than what DST offers with its Brightshades, is that in addition to the plant (that resembles a chicken..) trying to attack you with vines shooting up out the ground, there are other mobs that you’ll need to try to deal with too.. such as the above mentioned frogs, or bats, but you should probably focus on killing the plant first so it’s ground drill doesn’t hit you while you try to fight the other mobs in the dungeon. (Sounds like what Brightshades should’ve been doesn’t it?)

Did I mention Guidus has bats? Yeah.. and want to know what’s cool about them? They can actually get an “Unfair” advantage over the player by doing what bats do and flying over empty tiles the player can not step onto but still being able to try to attack the player.

Or in DSTs case- The Cave Abyss we can’t even interact with at all.

In Guidus, the player can actually walk off ledges and fall, something that I’d absolutely LOVE to see in a Caves Rework for DST… because I can’t begin to tell you guys how many times I’ve tried to run from an enemy or dodge a trap on this mobile game- only to fall in a hole.

I imagine that if that was to be translated over into DST.. it would work about like a player who sinks on a boat would, (Aka washing back up on land or in this case: having Charlie’s shadow hands grab them and Yeet them back on to the land) punishing them by much like staying on board a sinking boat vessel- Blacking out portions of their health bar.

In conclusion this very simple little mobile game gives me all the vibes and feels of playing DST (at least combat kiting/dodging wise) while at the same time taking that simplistic hit a few times and Dodge away formula and making it more interesting…

By having things like Mob spawners that spawn random unpredictable enemies until the spawner can be reached and destroyed (sounds like what Lunar Rifts and Shadow Rifts should play like if I’m being honest…)

and of course the Flower that resembles a chicken that attacks the ground under or near the player until the plant itself can be reached and attacked.

And then there’s the traps.. which can make the simple formula of combat easier or harder depending on your luck.. (it’s satisfying to make trap arrows kill enemies for you, it’s not so satisfying when the annoying mob spawner or chicken plant is protected by all sorts of booby traps)

Whats my point here? This mobile game proves a very solid and undeniable truth- The combat of DST doesn’t need to be Overhauled, it’s literally everything else that works in conjunction with the combat- that will spice things up and make the simple formula more interesting.

That said… it also doesn’t hurt to have a few enemy mobs with unique attack patterns beyond just swipe/bite toward player once, things like for example the Hippopatamouse that leaped toward the player, or the snakes and scorpions and poison spiders that inflicted the player with poison damages if they hit them.

I want to add that I really love the Ink Blight Trio because those little guys do try to shake up combat a little more then just hit a few times, dodge their slow swipe, hit a few times rinse repeat.. this new mob trio easily became some of my favorites added to the game (maybe it’s the deadly mortar strikes & pounce attacks idk.)

I just wanted to point out that we as players, don’t need overly complex combat mechanics- a few special skill tree perks such as Wigfrids shield or Willows fire casting is all we really need.

TL:DR- Guidus is a clear cut example that the simple hit/dodge back combat formula works, it’s literally Everything Else that needs to be changed to make that challenging & interesting.