Why are some people mad that Willow is a mage now??

[maxwell_winters]

3 hours ago, Primalflower said:

i mean, sure, willow has never been associated with firey mage-y magic-y witch-y type things before... but... wait a m,inute....

Willow also has Dragonfly and Wednesday Adams-inspired skins? Does it canonically make her a half sister of Wednesday born from the affair of Gomez Adams with Dragonfly? I don't think so.

[Primalflower]

5 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Willow also has Dragonfly and Wednesday Adams-inspired skins? Does it canonically make her a half sister of Wednesday born from the affair of Gomez Adams with Dragonfly? I don't think so.

both of these are hallowed nights skins. the funko pops were not.

they were all very thematic to the character. just like willows.

[Cassielu]

I'm OK with Willow herself.

However, Klei's updates in recent years have almost changed most of the characters into different kinds of magicians. Woodie is more like a Druid. Wendy is a psychic now. Wig is a classic rpg minstrel. This is a serious homogenization of character.

In this case, I don't want to see any more "magicians, but good at different kinds of magic" type characters.

[WenericMember]

32 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

both of these are hallowed nights skins. the funko pops were not.

they were all very thematic to the character. just like willows.

Dang those are some really cool skins, the mourning Veil and fiery witches hat in particular. Really sad they're exclusive to Funkos

[-Variant]

6 hours ago, Paxtonnnn said:

She was always a bit magic but I feel like the skill tree turned it from a 2 to an 11. The skill tree’s really fun but aesthetically I’m not a fan of summoning floating fireballs and having flamethrower hands

This.

I feel like people are getting each other mixed up right now. Everyone knew and expected her to get better control over her fires, but man this execution is far from what I had hoped for.

Summing fires from thin air and shooting blue flamethrower blasts from her hands are just so, so, so out there.
Every other character who had their 'magical innate abilities' enhanced did it reasonably. Almost everyone still uses tools and items to help them achieve their gimmicks, at that.

I'd have much preferred she be flicking her lighter around and/or using matches over... sucking up the charred souls of the dead and shooting fire from her hands...

[lowercase skye]

21 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Summing fires from thin air and shooting blue flamethrower blasts from her hands are just so, so, so out there.

Every other character who had their 'magical innate abilities' enhanced did it reasonably. Almost everyone still uses tools and items to help them achieve their gimmicks, at that.

 And Willow does that, she uses her lighter to collect embers!

As for the blue flamethrower blast, I find myself getting hung up on the fact that this isn't an innate magical ability of Willow, it's her in-universe telling Wagstaff "hey I'm on your side lol give me cool powers" and he goes "yeah ok" and helps her to shoot lunar fire from her hands. We don't know exactly how it actually plays out, but the alignment perks are very much Wagstaff/Charlie somehow imbuing characters with cooler abilities in exchange for swearing allegiance to them. It's supposed to be crazier than the rest of her kit!

[Primalflower]

26 minutes ago, -Variant said:

 shooting blue flamethrower blasts from her hands are just so, so, so out there.

she cant do that without defeating a final boss and receiving help from wagstaff. think of this as her own unique final boss drop.

[Theukon-dos]

Bold of you to assume that the same people who wanted Willow to be a pyromancer are the same ones who are complaining about her being a fire mage. I've been wanting Willow to have magic-based fire powers for years now, ever sense the Bernie Rework. And while I still disagree with skill trees on a fundemental level, I'm atleast glad that it took her in a direction I've been longing for.

 

 

All that being said, just to help Varient and play devil's advocate here, just because there is an in-world explination for why Willow can Biden Blast now, doesn't automatically mean that it makes sense or fits her character. Yes, Wagstaff DID give her the ability to shoot lunar flames. He also could have given her a glock. But that wouldn't automatically justify her having one.

[Evelo]

Pyromania =/= Pyrokinesis

The game has had elements of real life blended into fantasy for a long time. Willow was a Pyromaniac before entering the constant. Considering we still don't know what her deal with Maxwell was then we can only guess. However considering she uses a physical lighter to ignite things it was presumed she wasn't magical in any way. So to move away from that into "She can shoot fire out of her hands" is very jarring.

[BezKa]

Because it's laaaaaameeee

Wickerbottom is a magic user. Maxwell is a magic user. There is universally available magic to use in the game. Willow was just an orphan that reacted to burning houses in Hamlet with YEEESSS BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!

And then she became a magic user.

 

[somethin]

3 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Because it's laaaaaameeee

Wickerbottom is a magic user. Maxwell is a magic user. There is universally available magic to use in the game. Willow was just an orphan that reacted to burning houses in Hamlet with YEEESSS BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!

And then she became a magic user.

 

Magic is pretty cool though, thus, opinion invalidated. (This is a joke)

[Primalflower]

16 minutes ago, Evelo said:

However considering she uses a physical lighter to ignite things it was presumed she wasn't magical in any way.

she summoned fires at her feet with nothing in original DS and was immune to fire there as well - she was also unique in that she was hunted down by shadow creatures in the real world, an honor we know only few survivors are victim to. she also possessed bernie, an item that even then, clearly held some form of magic.

do i have to post the funko pop again?

[lowercase skye]

23 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Wickerbottom is a magic user. Maxwell is a magic user. There is universally available magic to use in the game. Willow was just an orphan that reacted to burning houses in Hamlet with YEEESSS BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!

And then she became a magic user.

I don't really quite understand this complaint. Like you said yourself, there's been universally available magic in this game since way back in 2013, it's a core part of the game's theming and there's been a subtle-to-heavy magic element to most every character's kit since strange new powers. Science and magic, that's like, the survivors' whole thing.

[Raven Idol]

It's the way she was made into a magic user that's the sore spot for many. It'd be like if Wickerbottom suddenly stopped needing her books and could just use spells at will, it's a jump and unbefitting of the character, same with Willow going from mild hints at pyrokinesis to blasting fire out of her hands. The presentation is the problem, not the actual magic.

[BezKa]

10 minutes ago, finn from human said:

I don't really quite understand this complaint. Like you said yourself, there's been universally available magic in this game since way back in 2013, it's a core part of the game's theming and there's been a subtle-to-heavy magic element to most every character's kit since strange new powers. Science and magic, that's like, the survivors' whole thing.

If you can't see the difference I don't know how to explain it to you. And that's my fault for not knowing how to phrase it, so, apologies.

[Primalflower]

3 minutes ago, Raven Idol said:

It's the way she was made into a magic user that's the sore spot for many. It'd be like if Wickerbottom suddenly stopped needing her books and could just use spells at will, it's a jump and unbefitting of the character, same with Willow going from mild hints at pyrokinesis to blasting fire out of her hands. The presentation is the problem, not the actual magic.

I think if this is the problem you're holding with it then the difference between not enjoying it and enjoying it is just trying to look at it from a different perspective. Willow is reliant on her lighter in order to gather the embers necessary to even do any of this magic. and once again, she is not, by herself, blasting fire out of her hands. this is an ability given to her by wagstaff, which not only contextualizes it as something she learns far into her survival in the constant after having beaten the celestial champion, but also as something that she cannot do on her own terms. Even then, this ability is just as reliant on embers to perform. In that way, she is as bound to her lighter as wickerbottom is to her books.

[Primalflower]

Just now, BezKa said:

snip

i don't know what relevance this has beyond you just mocking me - i have no idea how asking someone to try and consider different context around their opinion is in any way unreasonable

[BezKa]

Just now, Primalflower said:

i don't know what relevance this has beyond you just mocking me - i have no idea how asking someone to try and consider different context around their opinion is in any way unreasonable

It was meant to be a joke. How players need to pretend to see something that demonstrably is not there in order to enjoy themselves. Sorry I upset you, I'll hide the reply.

 

[Raven Idol]

14 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

I think if this is the problem you're holding with it then the difference between not enjoying it and enjoying it is just trying to look at it from a different perspective. Willow is reliant on her lighter in order to gather the embers necessary to even do any of this magic. and once again, she is not, by herself, blasting fire out of her hands. this is an ability given to her by wagstaff, which not only contextualizes it as something she learns far into her survival in the constant after having beaten the celestial champion, but also as something that she cannot do on her own terms. Even then, this ability is just as reliant on embers to perform. In that way, she is as bound to her lighter as wickerbottom is to her books.

That would be more applicable if it wasn't all of her fire spells. If it was just the alignment spells that were cast from the hands while the regular ones weren't, that'd be the perfect compromise between the two concepts.

She's more similar to Wortox where it's just pure and simple magic, when being reliant on a focus like Wickerbottom is with her books would be much more appropriate.

[Primalflower]

13 minutes ago, BezKa said:

How players need to pretend to see something that demonstrably is not there in order to enjoy themselves.

I'm not telling people to pretend to see anything that isn't there. I'm just pointing out things that I don't think are being considered. My instantaneous example of this is just that the most pointed-to thing in this thread has been willow being able to shoot fire out of her hands, and it's been portrayed as something she just does with no effort out the door, but the game contextualizes it as an ability given to her by a rather powerful entity after seeing an entire questline through to it's final boss end. i'm just asking them to see context like that.

My friend, I think you are very negatively biased towards this topic, and that's perfectly understandable and reasonable of you, but I think it is poorly informing your judgement about this thing I'm trying to say and clouding what I absolutely believe are good intentions in your speech. that's just me though

[hoppin mandrake]

I've never been a fan of Wigfrid or Willow anyway so this update doesn't do anything for me except for the new giant.

Though I feel like Willow's tree needs to be pulled back a few notches, she gives off the vibe that she's more powerful and godly than Maxwell or Charlie at this point.

Maxwell and Wickerbottom feel like their powers require knowledge and discipline, which is a big theme of the game in my opinion. Willow feels like she was just born with them now and can now shoot flames out of her hands just because..she can.

It just feels weird.

I agree with others who have said that they should've made a short to help contextualize it more.

[BezKa]

4 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

and it's been portrayed as something she just does with no effort out the door, but the game contextualizes it as an ability given to her by a rather powerful entity after seeing an entire questline through to it's final boss end.

I don't think it really changes the fact she's still shooting fire from her hands. Seems like a mage behavior to me, no matter if she got the ability from someone or if it's with effort or not.

I just think it's pointless to ask people who are unhappy with the direction of a character to force themselves to be happy with it. And complaining that they're unhappy. Most people who are upset just want to voice it, and don't really expect any changes, and some sympathy when they explain what they mean is warranted. Not "Why are you mad lolol" and "see, if you think about it differently, you can pretend it's not like that and then you don't have to be upset".

[Primalflower]

22 minutes ago, hoppin mandrake said:

can now shoot flames out of her hands just because..she can.

 

26 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

My instantaneous example of this is just that the most pointed-to thing in this thread has been willow being able to shoot fire out of her hands, and it's been portrayed as something she just does with no effort out the door, but the game contextualizes it as an ability given to her by a rather powerful entity after seeing an entire questline through to it's final boss end.

 

16 minutes ago, BezKa said:

"see, if you think about it differently, you can pretend it's not like that and then you don't have to be upset".

you're still contextualizing it as trying to make something out of nothing rather than what i've described. im sorry but i can't continue this with you

[BezKa]

2 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

you're still contextualizing it as trying to make something out of nothing rather than what i've described. im sorry but i can't continue this with you

Fine, "if you look at this from this perspective then it's not as bad as you think". Still doesn't change anything.

[shaurun]

I love Willow skills! Her current skillset encourages to use flame more.

I'm honestly one og those people who don't like Woodie update concept because turning 3 creatures instead of my beloved beaver was too much to me. I loved uncontroled Woodie beaver difficulties. For Willow, I also loved hed uncontrolled flames. When it was removed and they gave her the teddy, it was also fun to play ans bernie is a great concept.

I see here Willow is like Woodie, she learned how to manipulate the fire. She's great. And I love magicians) So firespells are cool, fun, kinda OP but again fun. I even stopped hating Wendy so much because now Willow looks same OP  or even more)